Shaun Livingston signed to multiyear deal; D.J. White recalled

from "Ridiculous Upside" feb 28

"Steven Hill had his knee scoped a few weeks ago with no return date set"

okcnba, I hear your view but just to make clear my view I didn't say "big risk and gamble" just "some gambling". It is not a gamble on money, it is a gamble of playing time and giving Livingston the shot over acquiring other options.

@Joe
Actually, they got Gary Forbes from Sioux Falls for Chris Ellis.

@Joey
I almost think that next year's guard crop might look very different after it all shakes out. Damien still has an option year left, but he may not exercise it seeing the writing on the wall. He is getting no minutes whatsoever. So to his way of thinking, it might be better for him to not exercise, get a vet minimum gig somewhere where he thinks he can get some minutes, much like how Flip Murray has gotten into the rotation in Atlanta.

I really think Mason is a goner. Love the guy, but really Thabo does just about everything better than Mason, including shooting, which neither do well, and he's younger and cheaper. Mason will be looking for something close to the MLE for a few years and Presti won't pay it I bet ya, not with Thabo getting only 2+ mil for one more season, and Weaver getting 800K and likely a first rounder coming in at the 2.

So between trades, picks, Free agency, I think our roster will be somewhat different by October when training camp starts.

Watson is worth more now than he was earlier since he is healthy and only has one year left on his deal. Atkins has a 300K buyout after this season, so I really think Presti can get rid of these two without taking too much back if anything at all.

@Vega
My understanding was that they sent Ronald Dupree to Utah for Gary Forbes, and that Steven Hill was sent down....I may be wrong.

Seems like I read somewhere that Hill was hurt.

That is correct. He was released, and signed with the Utah Flash, but the 66ers sent Ronald Dupree to Utah in exchange for Hill, so he is with the 66ers, but he hasn't played since January. Is he injured?

@Vega
The Thunder didn't send Hill down. They released him altogether.

@Crow
I don't see how signing a minimally paid back up PG is a big risk and gamble.

Livingston probably will add to the shooting, turnover and defensive weaknesses.

But Presti and Bennett may have liked the character story or Sam loved his draft number (Woohoo I got another top pick!)

On the other side, it is gambling on the chance it works and some gambling can be good. Being brilliant at putting the jigsaw puzzle together doesn't have to be gambling if you are very good, very precise but gambling is a decent option if you are not.

Presti has gone pretty non-conventional at the guard spots. I am far less supportive of that than I used to be. It is calling for tricky even miraculous fit. Fit is not something Presti has previously demonstrated almost anywhere.

By the way, why hasn't Steven Hill played a game for the 66ers since January?

Since they are decent backup point guards, and expiring contracts, Atkins and Watson will be pretty easy to move. Wilkins could probably be packaged with one of them, and Mason, Rose, and Swift will simply not be resigned. We may have to take a bad contract, but we will likely have plenty of roster space for draft picks and D-League players.

Livingston (if healthy) is a starting quality point guard - if he could only shoot - well, that would be too easy . . .

I hope I'm able to watch Shaun without having any injury-play flashbacks.

If we end up drafting Thabeet, we'll have the longest/lankiest team in the NBA with Livingston, Durant, Thabeet and Thabo on the court.

Between Watson, Atkins, Wilkins, Mason, Rose and Swift there will be probably be lots of cuts, trades and buyouts. Doubt more than 2 are back. Maybe none would be best.

Thabo from the numbers should backup just SF, Weaver probably mainly backup SG then, Livingston backup PG. Still need a SG shooter. Too early to project Livingston beyond 15 minutes a game but if he does then Westbrook will be playing some of that SG time and the shooter time will get squeezed. Forbes or one of the top draft picks?

Presti had better be counting his roster spots filled and still available pretty carefully.

Livingston will be an interesting add. He isn't everything they need but he is a fairly natural PG, young guy / semi-vet, and he could work with Westbrook with Shaun probably being PG on offense, SG on defense. The turnovers have always been a bit high. The 3 pt shooting doesn't exist. The team defense was weak and the 1-1 was generally weak with guys getting to the rack frequently on him and probably even more so now post-injury making playing SG on defense more likely. I assume his deal is 3 years with 2010-2011 an option for somebody, maybe Shaun. I think it is probably well over the minimum, I'd guess somewhere between $1.5-2.5 million.

I see Herbert Hill is in Tulsa. I think he might get a training camp invite and could be a decent choice for PF/C depth.

Joe, do you think with Thabo starting and Weaver needing more minutes, that Brooks and Co. would still do the RW playing at the 2 experiment next year?

I'd like to think that, since we now have a backup PG for the next couple of years (most likely), that the draft will now consist of at least 1 SG, 1 C (or PF/C combo) and then the best value of what's left if we happen to have our hands on a second round pick come draft day.

"Also, D.J. White has been recalled. So he really needed one more game in Tulsa to get ready? Weird."

My guess there would be that they are trying to get him into a game every couple of days so he gets his wind in game shape. I suspect we will see him in a game very soon.

I would bet money that Presti got him very cheap. No way our super frugal GM overpaid for a guy coming back from injuries and getting his mojo, when he's the same guy who sent Tyson Chandler back with question marks about his health and a big contract for two more years. Likely it's something along the lines of Veteran's minimum, I would guess 800k a year for 2 or 3, with options. A contract like a second rounder would get.

Damien is still in the last year (next) of a 5 year 3.5 mil per, as an undrafted FA. No doubt it will fall between Kyle Weaver's numbers and Wilkins.

If you remember, we saw him play in preseason with Miami, and I remember thinking he moved really well. I wrote in the old Thunderguru blog after the game: Shaun Livingston looks completely healed and fully functional after the worst looking knee injury since Joe Theisman’s back in the 80’s...

He had a bucket and an assist and a rebound in 13 minutes.

I also wrote in that same post: I can’t stress enough how badly we need a great shooter on this team. A guy who, when he has the ball in his hands out on the arc, the other team gets worried. Somebody who, when Westbrook drives into the lane, then passes out quick to a wing, who then swings it around the arc, it winds up in that shooters hands and it’s money.

Livingston isn't that guy, that's for sure. His shooting stroke is sketchy. But he can handle the rock. My guess is that this is our backup point guard for the next few years, and he will see some run in the role currently occupied by Atkins: the backup, and occasionally the point guard that plays alongside RW when RW is getting minutes at the 2.

Keith, Livingston can't shoot three's, that I totally agree with. But he did shoot 46% from the field the year before his injury and is still a career 44% FG shooter (in comparison, Kobe's a 45% career FG shooter). Rondo has become what Livingston was projected to be, so let's hope his recovery from the worst knee injury I've ever seen video of is on the way to getting him back to 100%.

This probably does signal the end of the Earl Watson era for sure, though.

@Keith
That's how I feel. More than likely next year isn't guaranteed so it's more of a wait and see type thing. Just this way nobody else can come swoop him up if he performs well.

Livingston is injury prone and can't shoot. That said, he can play some stellar defense and find open teammates. I'd like to see the contract before making any rash judgement on the signing, but he should make a quality backup PG. Right now all our backup PGs can't shoot, so having one that can at least play defense and distribute would be a significant upgrade.

If I were Earl Watson, I would be very nervous right now. Between Chucky Atkins and Livingston, if seems like the Thunder are evaluating every possible option at PG besides him.

But it might be for the best that Earl is traded--he could be a solid backup in many organizations in the league, and lord knows a PG will fetch some excellent trade value. Chris Kaman or another comparable big man would be a nice addition this summer.

Shaun definitely has talent, and I hope he's able to fulfill it in OKC.

Sam Presti seems to always have a pretty good game plan, but no one ever knows what it is. Maybe he noticed something about Livingston that didn't show up in the box score. I agree with that DJ White situation that has to be pretty irritating.

Very nice. I can't wait to see him in action.