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Thunder 96, Raptors 112

by Joe on March 27, 2009 at 8:08 pm 27 Comments

wedgieEarlier in the week when we got taken to the woodshed by the Lakers, Royce titled the post game “Schooled”.  After tonight’s debacle game, I am fielding suggestions for a good title for the post game wrap. Any ideas? Does the picture on the left stir your imagination?

Box Score

Tonight was just a forgettable game. The Thunder jumped out to a 5-0 lead to open up, and then the bleeding started. The Raps reeled off a 15-2 run and never looked back. They had the lead from that point on, and the Thunder never really made a game of it.

Throughout the season, we’ve had plenty of losses, and after being a longsuffering Sonic fan for two decades, I’ve seen a lot of them, especially in the last 4 or 5 years. But during this new Thunder era, we’ve almost always been competitive; even when we were 3-29, most nights we were “in the game”.  That just wasn’t the case tonight.

If you told me that we would lose tonight by 16 to Toronto, my mind would have instantly jumped to turnovers. The Thunder lead the league in Turnovers (as in the most) at 16 a game. I would think the Turns did us in once again. That also just wasn’t the case. The Thunder only turned it a mere 11 times.  What did us in was extra poor shooting and getting busted on the boards.

You may or may not know that the Thunder have been sort of quiet offensively for most of the month of March. Tonight was the same. Shooting was extra stinky, especially in the first three quarters, where we shot 44%, 31% and 30% respectively. I don’t want to give too much credit where it isn’t due: I don’t really think Toronto did anything special on defense tonight. I did see effort, Toronto did a respectable job, but it certainly wasn’t what I would call lockdown, the Thunder just couldn’t get their shots to drop. Even point blank shots were bouncing out. It was just one of those nights offensively. Unfortunately the Thunder didn’t make up for it with any special defensive effort either. At times I saw the extra stiff defense we’ve had glimpses of this month, but as a whole, not so much. Especially noticeable was that the team just couldn’t grasp the concept of defending the perimeter in the fourth quarter where Toronto went 4/8 on threes. At least three of these stick out in my mind for the fact that no Thunder defender closed out on the shooter in a serious way.


NBA Stats

And rebounds. Sheesh. The Thunder are the 4th best rebounding team in the league (and 3rd best on the offensive boards), yet got absolutely spanked on the glass by the 25th worst rebounding team in the NBA. The rebounding margin was 54/37, and 13/8 on the offensive glass.

With the Thunder shooting so poorly, there were a lot of rebounds to be had, but Toronto got their hands on most of them. The Thunder just settled for a whole lot of outside jumpers in the first half, and didn’t get serious about getting into the paint until the second half. But along with getting into the paint for easy baskets, the Thunder needed to get stops to erase the 11 point deficit. Also not the case. The Raps just continued to hit big shots and collect misses and rolled to the finish line.

Bullets

  • One great play that I made a note of happened in the first quarter where Collison had the rock at the top of the three point arc defended by Bosh. Colly looked like he wanted to pass off the ball but instead he just put it on the floor and drove to the hole. Bosh went up at the rim to try and knock it into the seats and the helper (Pops-Bonsu) also left his feet for the block. Colly stopped on a dime, did a little pivot and put it in when the two defenders were falling all over themselves back on the floor.
  • Speaking of Collison, tonight he had one of the finest offensive nights I’ve ever seen. He’s had 21 points before, but the way he did it was really diverse-for him. Post ups, midrange jumpers, long jumpers, even a drive to the hole. Colly usually doesn’t get much offense more than 6 feet from the bucket, but tonight he showed all the tools.
  • In the first half, neither team was doing any work in the paint; it was mostly all jumpers. The teams combined for a total of 11 free throw attempts in the first half.
  • Durant had a couple of nice individual defensive stops. First he picked Kapono’s pocket and handled the ball on the break, dishing off to Collison for the assist.  Later he defended Marion on a post up, and while he did leave his feet, he was able to adjust on the fly with those long arms and tie him up for a jump ball.
  • The Thunder began attacking the basket in the third period and it paid off with 12 trips to the line.
  • The Thunder really need a dead eye shooter to come off the bench. The team hasn’t had one since Wally Z took his game to Cleveland. We were abysmal  from deep. Statistically we are 25th in the league in 3fg% at .349, and dead last in 3fg attempts.
  • On the bright side, Kyle Weaver is having a very nice month for the Thunder shooting almost 50% from the field and 36% from three. He’s raised his scoring average up to almost 8 points per game this month in 23 minutes, and he seems to thrive coming off the bench in lieu of starting.
  • The curious case of the missing Earl continues. Big red and Damien each got a little run with about 4 minutes left in the blowout, but Earl never got his sweats off.
  • There’s been a lot of talk about Thunder defense lately. Here’s a not so fun stat. The Raps are averaging 97 points per game, yet we allowed them 112 tonight.  They average 36 made field goals per game, yet we let them sink 48.
  • Our starters were a combined 17/53 for 32% shooting.
  • In 8 minutes of play, Damien Wilkins led the team in shot %. He took 57% of the shots taken by the Thunder in the time he was in the game.  The next closest player was Krstic at 32%.
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25 comments
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Kev
Kev 5pts

agree about cutting Duran't minutes - he is too much of a defensive liability at 40 + minutes . . .

Crow
Crow 5pts

should be "flowing" not folling

Crow
Crow 5pts

If I were the coach and truly being free to think outside the box of Presti's design I'd try Green off the bench behind a Collison-Krstic pairing. Their +8 together is the second best raw +/- result for a pairing on the whole team. I'd cut Durant's minutes and tell him to play better defense or they'll get cut more. I'd use Weaver=Thabo when some combo of Westbrook, Green or a center are folling or you need defense. that is the very best pairing, at least by small minutes raw +/-.

If I was a GM I'd quit with the Atkins nonsense and bring in the best D league PG or PGs for quickie auditions.

And I'd be preparing contigency plans for blockbuster trades this summer, next deadline or next summer at the latest.

Crow
Crow 5pts

If I was coaching I said a few weeks ago I'd put Weaver in the starting lineup, I'd minimize Durant-Green to half the game together and at least half of that against subs by making their rest time completely separate. Collison - Krstic is currently a toss=up but I might lean toward Collison with the starters. Sefolosha- Krstic off the bench playing slow might make sense.

Crow
Crow 5pts

(The draft comment at 12:47 was accidentally transferred.)

Kev
Kev 5pts

what would you do if you were coaching? He has the best five guys on the floor . . .

Crow
Crow 5pts

The current starting lineup is the worst performing of the top 10 most used lineups for the season. Presti-Brooks appear to have guessed badly on this one. How long will they persist in trying to make it work? Even allowing for the starter player pairs to be worse because of facing starters heavier there are few or no starter pairs that are better than mildly negative or maybe neutral. The goal is starter pairs that are actually winning.

Crow
Crow 5pts

The current starting lineup is the worst performing of the top 10 most used lineups for the season. Presti-Brooks guessed badly and persist in trying to make it work or maybe Presti si tanking again.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Another -10 for Durant-Sefolosha pairing. What may look good conceptually, may not work out. The results of Thabo-Deng would have caused me concern. Apparently not Presti. It was not enough quality shooting, passing or defense. There was no positive synergy.

Green does not fit with Durant at least yet. So far nobody fits well with Durant that Presti has brought in or kept. The only significant players who didn't do poorly with Durant are vet wings- Desmond and Wally. And they weren't good, just not real bad, -5 or worse. Obviously different styles so hard to say which direction to look is best. Thabo was a look in Mason's direction. I'd look in Z's direction, for a quality shooter and see how that goes. I'd say probably better a mid to older 20s over another young guy. but I doubt Presti gets or tries that hard for an older guy and goes real young again. Using his eye for young talent.

That doesn't fit.

Durant is Green's second worst pair. Sefolosha is each of their worst pairs to date. With Thabo, Durant shoots worse, rebounds less and wins less than half as often. Green shoots much worse, rebounds a little better and loses more but not as big a drop as Durant. Thabo shoots worse and rebounds worse and plays team defense far worse with Durant. He shots better and rebounds a little better but still sees team defense suck with Green compared to Thabo without Green.

Green and Durant are tied for Westbrook's second worst pairs.

Weaver is Durant's second best and Green's best and Sefolosha's best. Sam got that one right. For a bench player.

Durant is tied for Krstic worst pair and Green gets 4th worst. Westbrook-Krstic is nothing special. He plays second best with Thabo. Another pairing that could work for some bench minutes.

What is the starting lineup of the future. Hard to say with this mix. But it probably isn't the current one.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Kev, you might have interest in this thread by a guy charting Chicago's defense http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/viewtopic.php?t=1972

Kev
Kev 5pts

I am a coach (as well as a teacher) in middle/high school so I do have some perspective - I will send you my spreadsheets

Joe
Joe 5pts

@Kev
I would love to see whatever you are willing to share. You can email us at dailythunder@gmail.com, or post or whatever you feel comfortable with.

Defense is so subjective. If you haven't played the game at a somewhat high level or coached, it's hard to quantify. Sometimes a player plays great defense and the other guy still scores. Sometimes somebody gambles a lot and gets steals, but the team suffers when he doesn't. Westbrook came into the league with the rep of being a great defender, ready to hold his own in the pros, and he can defend, but he doesn't do it nightly, and some nights he gets absolutely smoked. Ray Allen was always considered a very uninterested defender, yet he goes to Boston and is part of a supreme defensive squad. We all noticed Thabo's great defense right away, but some of the other guys who aren't as dominant, but still capable defenders (like Weaver) are sometimes overlooked.

It all is just really hard to nail down. Anything you feel like sharing would be great.

Kev
Kev 5pts

thanks for the kind words, Joe. Trust me until two weeks ago my eyes were glued to the ball as well, but I really wanted to get some defensive insights, so I have forced myself to look away from the ball. Admittedly, I couldn't really do it without Tivo. Some plays I watch 5 or 6 times. As far as specifics - I would be happy to share them with you, although I don't know what you are looking for specifically. I have an (admittedly) crude point system I use to grade each possession. I have a spreadsheet with the results of that. The point system awars points for the usual (steals and blocks) and the things not usually tracked (contesting shots, deflections, stopping penetration, and closing out on shooters). The system penalizes for lazy transition defense, going under screens when guarding a good outside shooter, or getting lost in rotation, or giving up penetration. I would be happy to send you that if you want. Or if you want a general summary of each player's strenghts and weaknesses, I can do that on here. I usually only track the swing positions 2/3 - but I do have insights for some of the other players.

MartzMimic
MartzMimic 5pts

Something else we need is a leader; someone who will get in guys' faces and tell them to get their poop in a group. Coaches can't do it, and neither can limited-minute bench veterans like Malik and Desmond. Davis and Long were talking about a recent game they watched where Shaq was trying to talk to Brook Lopez, and the youngster started jawing back at Shaq. Shaq quickly put the boy in his place. We need someone who can jerk a knot in these kids.

Joe
Joe 5pts

Vega :
I’d call up some D-Leaguers and start tanking for the lottery.

That's bad mojo. Karma is a killer. And the fans and the players know when somebody is tanking.

I do like the idea of D-leaguers; it will help you get a couple of guys for your summer league. I hope the Thunder field at least two summer league teams; especially for that big one in Vegas, not so much that Rocky mountain revue.

Man do we need a dead eye shooter.

Joe
Joe 5pts

@Kev
Thanks for watching and charting the defense Kev, it's really hard to do. My eyes keep wandering to the ball, but so so much happens away from the ball that impacts team and individual defense. I would love to see any stats or information you've gleaned from multiple games; tendencies, oversights etc.

Vega
Vega 5pts

I'd call up some D-Leaguers and start tanking for the lottery.

Kev
Kev 5pts

refer to my above post . . .

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

I DVR'd this game. And mostly, I watched the whole thing in about 30 minutes, fast-forwarding through most of it.

Ever since the San Antonio win, it looks like our guys have lost interest. Anyone else get that feeling?

Kev
Kev 5pts

Defensive Tidbits

1) Green and Westbrook are killing us - especially in transition. Neither seems interested in stopping the other team from scoring when getting back on defense. The announcers said that the Raps were last in transition offense in the NBA - but they got plenty of points on the break - and you can blame primarily these two. One example saw Thabo pick up Chris Bosh (Green's man) when Green was trailing on the secondary break. By the time that Green caught up and Thabo got back to his assigned man, Shawn Marion, it was too late. Marion caught the ball and scored on an easy runner. That's why when you look at stats and say "so-and-so's man scored 20 points so so-and-so played terrible defense", it may not be an accurate statement. The above sequence was not an anomaly.

2) Thabo had an uncharacteristically bad game on the defensive end. Joe already alluded to this in his summary, but in the 4th, Thabo was guilty of overhelping. You CANNOT do that against Jason Kapono. He will KILL you if he gets even a glimmer of an opening. Thabo was usually out of position by a step or two against Jason - by the time he recovered it was too late. In the first half he left his feet against Kapono and Jason went right around him. As usual, Thabo's effort was there, he was just a little out of sync. This is Thabo's first subpar game since I've been charting all the defensive plays (my 7th) so I am willing to cut him some slack.

3) Durant continues to be inconsistent. He had some great plays defensively (Joe has already mentioned those), but he'd rather go underneath a screen than over the top. He did a little better in contesting his man on jumpers today, but he was also a little lazy in getting back on defense. He also still gets lost every time the ball moves from one side to the other and back. These flaws will need to be addressed before he can be rated a good defensive player.

4) Weaver also looked like a different person on the defensive end. He was also guilty of overhelping on Kapono. This is puzzling because he did a GREAT job on a similar player (Kyle Korver).

5) I called out Damien Wilkins a few nights a go for jogging through his two minutes of gametime. I will give him his props - he was into it last night, getting a block and conesting another shot from Joey Graham.

Royce
Royce 5pts

@donuteyes
*Volunteers

donuteyes
donuteyes 5pts

after seeing most of the thunder game and the ou game, i'm thinking of investing in bringing in a voodoo priest to help with the draft lottery. is anyone willing to sell their soul for that number one pick? (sit down clay bennett, you got the team moved, you can't sell a soul twice...)

AD
AD 5pts

We may be hitting the rookie/sophomore/junior/veteran/everything wall.

April
April 5pts

I agree with all said. I do think we need to start Nick. He has played very well the last couple of games. The coach really needs to start who really wants to play. I went to the Utah game and this game reminds me of that game. I think I clapped my hands twice during that game and none last night at home. I guess its the end of the year and were going fishing.

Royce
Royce 5pts

Offensively, that was as poorly as KD has played all year. 4-13, 18 points.

It was just a poo-poo game. Very poo-poo. We could have used Tony Crocker tonight...

Trackbacks

  1. The AltRaps Blog » Blog Archive » Toronto Raptors Linkage for March 28th from 00:35 to 03:57 says:
    March 28, 2009 at 2:03 am

    [...] DailyThunder.com: Thunder 96, Raptors 112 – [...]

  2. Linkage for Mar 27 11am to Mar 30 1am - Raptors Republic says:
    March 30, 2009 at 6:46 am

    [...] DailyThunder.com: Thunder 96, Raptors 112 [...]

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