Hollinger looked at the top five team’s trade options. For OKC he said:
If the pick is Thabeet, then it’s no worries for the Thunder. They would get the shot-blocking big man they were looking for when they made the revoked Tyson Chandler trade in February.
If it’s Rubio, things get a lot trickier. Oklahoma City already has Westbrook at the point, and he had an exceptional rookie season considering his youth and inexperience at the position. It’s not as simple as moving Westbrook to the 2, either. He has the size to play there, but he’s not a good shooter. Since Rubio is a lousy shooter too, it would invite opponents to double- and triple-team Kevin Durant while sagging way off the Thunder’s guards.
Yet the Thunder don’t seem anxious to trade Westbrook either, not after the season he had as a rookie, and not when his aggressive mentality seems to be exactly what the team was looking for as the yin to Durant’s laid-back yang.
So we need to at least ask the question: Would Oklahoma City trade down a spot with Sacramento? The Kings are dying to get Rubio, while at No. 4 the Thunder could snag a much-needed wing sniper like James Harden and earn a few other goodies in the process. As enticement, Sacramento could offer its No. 23 pick and/or Spencer Hawes, or agree to swap Jason Thompson for Thabo Sefolosha.
What an interesting scenario. Really, Sam Presti is going to have a chance to prove his worth come June 25th. At three, OKC is going to have more options than any other team. You can throw out the No. 1 pick – we know what’s happening there. But at two, there’s questions. So depending on what Memphis does, the Thunder could have their phone ringing off the hook. And Hollinger’s trade proposal doesn’t sound bad at all to me. I love James Harden and though I’d absolutely kill for Rubio, Harden may make for a more sound fit. And to be able to pick up a thing or two as a result wouldn’t be all bad either. I just don’t want to give up Thabo. Plus, it would be a little ironic to bring in Spencer Hawes after his little “fashion statement” earlier this year. I don’t think OKC needs another player at 23, especially with a pick at 25, but I wouldn’t object to Hawes or Jason Thompson.
And let’s say Memphis takes Rubio. There’s a lot of teams behind the Thunder that like Thabeet as well. So if whoever Presti pegs as his guy – Harden, DeRozen, Holliday, Hill, whoever – he could work his way to still getting him and picking up something extra. But then again, we thought the same thing might happen last year with Russell Westbrook. Presti’s hand was forced and he had to pull the trigger at four to get his man.
This doesn’t even include the outside trade scenario that could bring in something bigger to Oklahoma City. Toronto has been said to be interested in acquiring picks and possibly moving up. Chris Bosh is reportedly unhappy in Toronto. Put two and two together there.
So the question is, would you pass on Rubio to move down and take Harden and maybe pick up an extra pick or player? Common sense says yes, but the lure of Rubio says no. Tough question to answer.
I think the Thunder are going to be happy with either Thabeet, Rubio, or Harden. There is no wrong answer here in my opinion.
Read more on what the Grizzlies are going to do here: http://therookiecontract.com/
it's not a big deal - I personally wouldn't do that if I were in his situation, but like someone mentioned - he's a European; he doesn't have to play in the NBA. I'm more concerned with the Thunder getting a player that wants to be here - if he wants to go the route of Eli Manning and Kobe Bryant, then so be it . . .
Rubio saying that is a sure fire way to make many Oklahomans upset...
if presti takes rubio, harden, thabeet, reke evens - i'm cool with it. i got confidence in him & (just as importantly), in durant.
i don't, however, want to see jordan hill.
i do think rubio (or any guard) won't amount in much in terms of wins without anyone to defend the paint.
Personally i think thabeet can be groomed to be the proper fit in okc. but i would be lying if i said i didn't have any concerns about that!
my main hope is that they don't lose their young core. they keep livingston. & they get a solid veteran.
i think you would have to consider acquiring bosh. as he would put them into playoff contention faster than anyone you could nab in the draft. & i don't see why people would automatically assume he'd leave - okc is a fast rising team. he would be a major cog. & he would be close to his hometown.
& saying that okc could (or should) trade for ANY of the kings not named martin or thompson is ridiculously stupid.
and what if Rubio doesn't like the odds of going to a small market - then he pulls out of the draft. Actually, check out what happens if he does take his name out of the draft and stay in Europe - Memphis would almost be forced to take Thabeet at #2 . . . No way do they take Harden with Mayo and Rudy . . .
this is getting ugly - say Memphis passes on Rubio based on that - then who do they take?? It's not worth the risk drafting Rubio and hoping for a trade unless you already have one worked out - why would Sacramento trade knowing what they know about Rubio not wanting to play in Memphis or OKC??
@Nix
If Rubio wants to play in LA then we could possibly draft him for the Clippers if the story has any truth to it then he doesn't want to play for Memphis.
Which forces them to pick Thabeet or another prospect with the 2nd pick in turn we give the Clippers Rubio and first round pick next year.
@Nix
agreed . . . it looks like we have NO shot for Rubio . . .
On a non-trade related note, I just watched that 10 minute-long Rubio highlight video on YouTube... Wow. If the Thunder get a chance to take him, I say go for it. You don't pass on talent like that. Kid's only 18, and he just has a great feel for the game, something most players lack. Especially a player like Thabeet.
I really, really hope the Grizz are high on Thabeet, because Rubio dishing to our shooters, with RW cutting to the basket and distributing the ball well himself would be a beautiful thing.
@GAP
well that article blows...(if Rubio is serious)
http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#NBA-Draft-Roundup-May-20-3224
Take a look at this story for draft express!
Vega :Trading for Bosh is a ridiculously stupid idea. There is no way he re-signs after this year. We would basically be renting him for a year. I think that all Chris Bosh trade discussion should be banned.
Depending on who Memphis takes, we could possibly swap picks with Sacramento. Maybe we could do something like this:
Thunder receive:Beno Udrih (Bad contract.)4th pickAndres Nocioni
Kings receive:Earl Watson (Good backup, expiring.)Damien Wilkins (Expiring.)3rd pick
Are you kidding me?! There's no way that the Thunder would ever trade for Beno Udrih!
@Steve K
That is why my idea has Golden State sending Crawford and Wright to Toronto. Crawford still has some good years left in him, and Brandon Wright is a nice young prospect. GS could also throw in Azubuike to make the salaries work and make the deal more appealing to Toronto. But I agree with you that Bosh probably won't move till the deadline.
Everybody settle down on the Bosh talk...
Yes, Bosh will probably walk at the end of his contract if Toronto doesn't trade him. However, they aren't going to just ship him away for expirings and a draft pick. If they decide to trade him, it will be at the Trade Deadline next year, and they will require a couple of young up and coming players and a couple draft picks.
The Raptors can offer him the most money for his next contract. But if he doesn't want to re-sign, then the Knicks are going to be serious contenders for him as will Dallas (his hometown), and he and Lebron are good friends and he has said he would like to play with Lebron, so the Cavs will be in play.
Go check out some of the Hoopsworld Chat archives. Read through them for info on Bosh. The writers there have talked to Brian Colangelo (GM of the Raptors) and he has said they are not going to trade Bosh this summer. In the past couple of weeks, there have been hundreds of Bosh trade ideas asked to the writers,(who have extensive and inside knowledge of the NBA and its workings), that are better than the ones you guys are discussing, and all the writers have shot them down without hesitation. Bosh is a top 10-15 player in the NBA, the Raptors are not going to just give him away, even he is gonna walk following the season.
@Joe
Good points, Joe. There is always going to be more going on than even we can come up with all together. We should worry more about what is in the hand (Harden with the third pick) more than crazy theories, it's just that crazy theories are more fun.
@Vega
I'll give you that Miami has the best shot at an unhappy Bosh, but that only matters if he's still unhappy. I think he'll like OKC. Or more specifically, I think he'll like the chance to play with KD for the next 7 years and compete for a title. Remember, changing teams isn't as simple to the players as it is to us fans. They have to uproot families, buy new homes, change their entire way of living. If he likes OKC, he'll stay.
This team needs shooting in the worst way. No doubt about that. Harden has it, Rubio not so much right now. But, if Rubio is available, you need to get him because he is a rare player with a rare skill set. The shooting you can get easily with the 25th pick (Meeks, Jermaine Taylor, Wayne Ellington,Thornton...probably two of those guys still on the board at 25).
I think the big key here will be how Harden does in defensive drills in private workouts. If he doesn't impress, he may slide. We don't know because of the zone scheme at AZ state. I assume he will be fine, and if he is, we would have a great backcourt with firepower offense (RW driving and dishing, Harden driving, shooting and passing)to go with our decent forward play.
For what it's worth, Hawes game is a lot like Krstics. A bit better. He is a jumpshooting 7 footer who doesn't rebound that much, so he doesn't help with defense at all.
Nocioni is a shot happy Jeff Green. Tweener forward. He doesn't have a position.
I just have to have some faith in Presti I guess because we just won't know 1/10th of the phone conversations he has with the NBA's decision makers out there before and during the draft.
I think Stoudemire has a better chance of coming to Miami because D'Antoni prefers Bosh over Stoudemire and Bosh would be lured because of the potential signing of LBJ.
If Sac gets Rubio from OKC, that would be the perfect ending for them because they obviously cant get Griffin and all the other players are not impact players at a positon they need. Rubio does remind me of Nash, like Royce said, and i think hes gonna be a superstar in the league because of his flashy moves and confidence.
Also, Miami is another possible team that Bosh could sign with. I'm pretty sure that they will lock up D-Wade this offseason, so I don't think that he will be available in '10. Also, with the giant contracts of Jermaine O'Neal, Mark Blount, and Udonis Haslem coming off the books in '10, they will have plenty of space to bring in Bosh to play with his old Olympics teammate, and still have some money left to get a couple more decent free agents.
I think that out of all of the teams in the league, Miami is the team that Bosh will sign with in '10. It is a perfect situation. He would get to play in a big city, he would play alongside one of the best players in the league, and, by that time, Beasley, Chalmers, and Cook will have developed even further. If they got Bosh and a serviceable big, they would be championship contenders instantly.
@Vega
I like the way you're thinking.
I think a combo of a defense first center with Krstic could make one fantastic center. (Now don't mistake that defense first center for Hasheem Thabeet...)
There are just SO many options right now. But in the end, Presti may just take Harden straight up and not worry about it. Or Rubio. Or Thabeet. Or... someone else.
You know, Golden State really wants Bosh. Personally, the best trade that Toronto could do for Bosh is:
Raptors receive:
Jamal Crawford
Brandon Wright
Somebody to make the salaries work.
Golden State receives:
Chris Bosh
Crawford would fill the Raps hole at the two guard, (Anthony Parker is definitely gone.) and they would get a good young PF in Wright, who has become unnecessary in Golden State with the emergence of Anthony Randolph. Then, knowing how Nellie likes to play small, he could trade Biedrins to OKC for Watson, Wilkins, Ibaka, and a pick. In my opinion, that is the ideal thing that could happen.
@Nix
Yes, he is definitely available, that' not really in question. As for how much he's worth... it's all dependent on whether he stays or not. If he stays, he's easily worth my scenario, and had at a huge deal in yours.
@Vega
Chicago's cap space is dependent on Gordon's salary (I honestly think Chicago pays him the most), resigning Brad Miller (best big they have), and filling their roster this offseason (they only have half a roster under contract for next year). I'm not saying they won't have space, but will they have the space and team to make Bosh turn down KD, Westbrook, Green, and more money here? As for New York, who will they have to entice him? Is living in New York worth being on an even worse team than Toronto? Besides, New York wants Lebron, Wade, and Amare before they want Bosh.
@Nix
Would I do that? Yes. Will Toronto even consider that deal? No.
@Vega
So you're saying that if you could trade Suns 1st round pick next year and Earl Watson's expiring contract for Bosh you wouldn't do it?
(Once again my point is you can get him for cheap, not that A+B= Bosh)
@Keith
Because certain teams in New York and Chicago going to have a whole bunch of cap space. Also, even if we signed Bosh to a long term deal, it would severely hamper our ability to re-sign Durant, Green, and Westbrook. It is a bad idea all around, and Presti is too smart to pull something like that.
@Keith
My point is you could get him...I don't think Presti would spend that much to get him...
but I honestly think you could get him for very cheap...
He will leave Toronto they have to get some value for him.
@Vega
Really, why are you so sure Bosh bolts? Don't you think Bosh would love to play alongside KD, Westbrook, and Green? What happens if him being here puts us in the playoffs by next year? Wouldn't he be pretty psyched to stay on a team that is getting better and better, giving him the teammates and chance to win that Toronto never could?
@Nix
Not a bad idea, though I think the pick would have to be this year's number 3. Without Bosh, Toronto can scarcely field a team. They'll need something they can use right away. I think a more likely trade would be Thabo, the #3, and Watson. Toronto would shed a ton of cap space, would get a solid guy to play SF (their biggest hole), and would get Thabeet to play center with the third pick. Assuming they then resign Marion for a few years, they would have something respectable to start rebuilding with:
PG Calderon
SG Kapono
SF Thabo
PF Marion
C Thabeet
That lineup isn't going to make a stir in the playoffs, but it could win as many games as they won this year, and the team would have the space to make a run at one of the big name guys in 2010.
To be honest, I wouldn't give up Weaver for Rent-a-Bosh. That may sound stupid, but I really like Weaver.
and Weaver/Next years Suns/Watson don't equal that?
I'm not saying exactly what it would take to get Bosh...I'm just saying it can be done...We are one of very few teams who have the assets necessary to accomplish favorable trades and remain under the cap...We are also one of few teams capable of signing free agents and still having cap space...
Presti isn't going to be an idiot and trade away everything just to get Bosh who might stay for a year...but he would make a reasonable trade for a guy who actually could be lured into playing with KD...Bosh would have to recognize our potential if he suited up with us...
My guess is that Toronto will want one solid prospect, a pick, and an expiring contract.
@Vega
I guess you're right... 3 way trades involving expiring contracts, draft picks and veterans rarely happen.
The questions isn't want Toronto will want...It's what they'll get...picks/expiring contracts... Teams trading for him have no guarantee he'll stay with them...therefore they won't be willing to give up much...if they were willing to they probably would have pulled the trigger last year.
Nocioni and Udrih isn't a good trade, I'll admit. I was trying to think of any assets that Sac-Town has to package with their pick to trade up, and Nocioni is pretty much the only asset they have to trade. It's amazing how little talent Sacramento has.
@Nix
I guarantee that Toronto would want more than expiring contracts for Bosh. If they trade him, they'll want some pieces to build around. And as far as Washington goes, they will probably want a good veteran for their pick. They are quickly getting old, and they are desperate to win now, not take on expiring contracts.
@Nix
we would have to take on some contracts like deshawn steveson
Do you think we could trade expiring contracts for Washington's #5 spot?
read that article...it sounds like Washington really needs to get under the tax...we could provide that...Presti could pick up Harden and Thabeet...(or someone other then Thabeet)
It's not too far out their...
@Vega
You could trade expiring contracts for Bosh...if he likes it he stays if he doesn't all we lost was watson/or atkins/or wilkins
I guarantee Bosh gets traded by the end of next season and it's not for much...
@Vega
Biedrins would certainly be a great pickup. I don't think anyone is disputing that. However, swapping picks with Sacramento for Udrih and Nocioni is far worse than trading for Bosh. Udrih is worth less than Watson and Nocioni would have nowhere to play. He certainly wouldn't push Durant or Green for minutes. We'd basically be trading down for two players who would rarely see the court while getting rid of expiring contracts.
Also, why are you so sure Bosh would leave? Are we not better off than Toronto? Cleveland was a pretty crappy market before Lebron showed up, but now vets wish they could play there. Durant could do the same thing. He's not Lebron, of course, but everyone likes to play alongside a player of KD's caliber.
why would we want Hawes and Nocioni?? Chicago didn't miss a beat after Nocioni left - in fact they were better with Salmons, and Hawes is not a difference maker . . . we don't need more mediocre talent - we have enough of that already . . .
You know, I'll bet that Sacramento would give us Hawes along with Nocioni just for taking Beno's awful contract. I'd even send them the Spurs pick to get that deal done.
Personally, I would prefer to get a deal done for Andris Biedrins.
Trading for Bosh is a ridiculously stupid idea. There is no way he re-signs after this year. We would basically be renting him for a year. I think that all Chris Bosh trade discussion should be banned.
Depending on who Memphis takes, we could possibly swap picks with Sacramento. Maybe we could do something like this:
Thunder receive:
Beno Udrih (Bad contract.)
4th pick
Andres Nocioni
Kings receive:
Earl Watson (Good backup, expiring.)
Damien Wilkins (Expiring.)
3rd pick
Oh...and not saying Rubio..they might very well want Thabeet...
@Kev
Well if they're trading Bosh you have to see that as starting over...So they would want picks and caps space for '10...
Bosh is going to bolt so he's worth whatever they can get...We would be scared to take him because he might bolt from us too...So they throw Kapono (or somebody in) to even it out...
Anyone taking Bosh from the Raptors is a risk...
why would the Raps trade those two guys??? To get Rubio??
Shoot with that lineup we'd have killer subs...Collision in to hustle, Livinston and Weaver (defense)...I would call that instant playoffs
@Kev
I don't know Kev...If you could get Bosh and get Toronto's pick I might be more willing to do that...
But honestly I think we could have gotten Bosh last year for expiring contracts...and think we could still do the same...
I like Rubio a lot by the way...I just think landing a proven All-Star who would really complement Durant would be far better...
Green & KD could spend even more time outside the 3pt line...
If you could trade the #3 and land Kapono and Bosh I would do it...(we'd have to send maybe some picks, expiring contracts, or Thabo)
this is a realistic lineup:
1. RW
2. Kapono
3. Durant
4. Green
5. Bosh
I still say we draft the best player available. and sign Gortat.
Backcourt : RW + Rubio/Harden
Frontcourt: KD + Kristic
Center : Gortat.
with bench mob of Livingston thabo Green collison
this is a very good team to go forward.
I dont want to trade our glue man in Thabo and Green, give this group of young players one more year and we are ready for playeoffs.
you go with Rubio without question - our offense in close games in the 4th quarter was HORRIBLE. The defense tightened up, and often Westbrook turned it over or took dreadful shots. Durant isn't yet comfortable being the facilitator. Pick Rubio (if possible). Problem solved.
Yeah I have no worries about the shooting. Rubio is sneaky around the rim and I've always said he reminds of Tony Parker - a guy that wasn't much of a jumpshooter until recently.
I probably go with Rubio as well, but the whole scenario is very interesting to think about.
If Rubio falls, we take him. Despite Hollinger's claim of Rubio being a "terrible shooter," he actually shot 43% from three this year (all while playing with a bum wrist). Rubio isn't going to be a go-to scorer at the end of a game, but he hits shots when open, which should be a lot while playing with Westbrook and Durant and is more than we can say for most everyone else on the team. Rubio can settle our guys down and make the right play at the right time, which is a lot of what we missed at the PG spot. (Note: for as great as Westbrook is, our offense ran a lot more smoothly with Watson at the point)
As for trading the pick, I'm still of the mind that Bosh would be worth the trade. He plays solid defense, rebounds well, and proved on Team USA that he can be a star with other stars (he was easily our best big man in the olympics). He wants out to a team with a legitimate future and a solid lineup. I think he might love playing with KD, and would want to stay.