Saturday Morning Cartoons: A little playoff nostalgia

to elaborate -

it's funny when they talk about all these other guards (Derozan, Holiday, Henderson, Rubio, etc) - "when they develop their outside shot" . .

gimme a guy in the top 5 that can already shoot . . .

thank you . . .

yes - only because

a) I havent seen Rubio play (youtuble clips dont count)

and

b) he's far and away the best shooter in the draft

@Kev
So you're hoping for
1. Curry
2. Westbrook

Is Curry above Rubio on your big board. (I know you've said in the past I just can't remember)

I don't mind Curry, but I'm definitely taking Rubio over him.

good stuff on Curry - Ive said this before but it bears repeating

1) Curry will be a legit #1 in the pros - he proved he could do it last year - Richards (former Davidson PG) graduating a year in front of Curry helped Curry tremendously

2) Curry will have to be picked at #3 - trading down presents too much of a risk if you want him

@Alex
That's awesome, but I'm just beginning to think Presti sends a killer amount of scouts out. They said we scouted Thabeet more then anyone scouted him. Sounds like the same is true for Curry. Not meaning to downplay it too much, but already in 'my' first off season I think I'm learning no one really has any idea what Presti will do.

With that said, Curry is growing on me. Especially if he's doing so well in the combine. My issue with him is that we need a 2 who can create his own shots. There are going to be a lot of athletes on him so we'll see. Would he play the 1 or the 2? I'm sure he'd guard the 1 and RW would guard the 2.

I know they are all rumors, but I figured Kev would like this one from HoopsWorld:

"Oklahoma City has a Stephen Curry fixation. The Thunder attended all of Curry's home games at Davidson this past season and is looking at him as a potential shooting guard. But they'll almost certainly move down from the No. 3 pick if they decide to take him. Scouts are not only high on Curry's shooting, but also think he can make players better around him. "When you look at that Davidson team, they barely had any other Division I players," said one scout."

@Joe
My impresion of the Wizard's tempo is based on having seen them play a couple of times and is entirely without statistical support, though it is hard to imagine them as a walk it up, half-court offense since they have Arenas playing PG (when healthy), and no high scoring PF or C that I am aware of. Regardless, how fast they play really isn't the main point here. Baron Davis isn't exactly my favorite player in the league, but he is an elite point guard. He was an all star in 2002 and 2004. In 2007 he led the league in steals, and looked pretty damned good when the Warriors dropped the Mavericks in the play-offs. NBA.com lists his career stats at 16+ per game points and 7+/game assists. I don't want him on our young, rebuilding team, but any team out there looking to win now that could use a veteran point guard should be interested. I guess I'm in the minority on this, but selling an up-grade from Mike James to B.Davis looks pretty easy to me.

@Nix
Teams only pay dollar for dollar extra for the amount they are over the luxury tax limit, not the salary cap.

@Joe
I think the real issue is that Washington has always been a score-first team with Arenas and has never been even close to contending. Even with a fully healthy roster, this is a 5-8 team in the East, with no chance of beating any of the top 4. The idea that they would trade their pick for Davis (or any veteran who can excite and play SG) isn't far-fetched. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, Washington thinks it can win now, and would very likely be looking to pick up someone who might help them with that.

@Ty
DeRozan is a great mid-range shooter but an atrocious outside shooter. While a SG who can consistently hit from anywhere would be an upgrade, we need floor spacers more than anything. He may have a higher ceiling than Harden, but I feel Harden has a much higher floor. Also, the difference in their ultimate potential isn't as great as you might think. Brandon Roy has become one of the best players in the league using by being a smarter, more efficient player than most everyone else. Harden is that same kind of guy.

13 million over the cap really equates to an additonal 26 million over the cap.

For every $1 a team pays over the cap they pay an additional $1.

I seriously doubt the Wiz want to go much over the cap.

On top of that I wouldn't want Baron Davis on this team for any reason.

@Steve H
I see where you are coming from but DeRazon has great form and is said to have a better mid-range jumper than we think. I wouldn't mind most anyone but i just don't want Thabeet.

Steve H :@Alex

As best I can tell. Washington has set out to be the Eastern Division’s Golden State Warriors. Fast tempo, lots of wing shooters, very little half-court defense. They are an honest to goodness play-off team right now who only sucked this year due to injuries. If they are looking to change their ways, they will need a complete overhaul to make that a team that something other than that- and by re-signing Arenas for crazy money, I think they pretty clearly indicated they like where they are just fine. Washington is a big market team who is already into luxury tax territory for next year. They can either pay that luxury tax with Mike James running the offense, or they can generate a hell of a lot of buzz, and sell a bunch of tickets by pairing Davis and Arenas in their back-court. These guys aren’t looking to “re-build”, they are looking to win more games and sell more tickets NOW- Davis does that for them in spades.

What makes you think that Washington is setting up to be a fast paced run and gun team?

You do realize that they have Flip Saunders as their coach, and Flip has never run a fast paced offense? He has never had a single team he coached run faster than 93.5 possessions/48, which is slower than the Thunder were this year. Many of his teams were towards the bottom of the pace spectrum in the 80's for a pace. He noticeably got slower nearly every year he coached, culminating in the slowest of all, the Detroit Pistons, who were 30th out of 30 teams in pace...as in the league's slowest.

I don't know where you would get the idea that he is suddenly going to coach the Eastern Conference's version of the Golden State Warriors. Washington's previous two coaches Eddie Jordan and Trapscott each also coached slow paced with that same team.

Coaches seldom change what they feel comfortable with and what has worked. Riley did it (fast Lakers to slow Heat and Knicks), but most do not.

@Steve H
All I'm saying is that for a team that is already over the luxury tax, signing a 30 year old PG to a 4-year, $50 million contract doesn't make any sense. He is a poor shooter (career FG%-40%) and he's never taken a team past the second round.

@Alex
I'm not considering how many additional picks they might have. Regardless of how deep or shallow their dip into the lixury tax pool is, adding 2.7 million for Baron-friggin-Davis makes them more money than it costs them.

@Alex
No, if they trade away both James (6.5 mill salary)and their first round pick (3mill salary) and add B.Davis (12.2 million sallary), there is a net increase of 2.7 million.

Scratch the extra $3 million for draft picks...I thought they had a late-round and a couple 2nds, but they only have one 2nd.

@Steve H
Their combined salaries next year, if they stayed put, would be $75.9 million. Minus James' $6.5 plus Davis' $12.2 would be $81.6 million plus $3 million for potential draft picks would be $84.6 million. They are really in bad shape, regardless of what happens this off-season. They'll be in okay shape the following year when Haywood, James, and Thomas all expire but until then, they would be crazy to take on another star contract.

@Alex
essentially they will be adding 3 mill in salary to their rolls if they did that deal- costing them six million if they have to pay dollar for dollar luxury tax. Do you not think B.Davis' style of play fits with the Wizards? Would he not generate much more fan interest/sales revenue/actual number of games won than Harden/Curry/Jennings/anybody else that might still be left on the board at #5? Small market teams dare not get into tax territory. Larger market teams don't seem to mind so much as long a wins/ticket sales/local tv revenue are good.

@Alex
You are not deducting what they are already on the hook to pay James (6.4 Million) and considering that they will be paying their first round draft pick 3mill+ regardless- unless you see them just giving the fifth pick away to avoid the salary cap.

@Alex
As best I can tell. Washington has set out to be the Eastern Division's Golden State Warriors. Fast tempo, lots of wing shooters, very little half-court defense. They are an honest to goodness play-off team right now who only sucked this year due to injuries. If they are looking to change their ways, they will need a complete overhaul to make that a team that something other than that- and by re-signing Arenas for crazy money, I think they pretty clearly indicated they like where they are just fine. Washington is a big market team who is already into luxury tax territory for next year. They can either pay that luxury tax with Mike James running the offense, or they can generate a hell of a lot of buzz, and sell a bunch of tickets by pairing Davis and Arenas in their back-court. These guys aren't looking to "re-build", they are looking to win more games and sell more tickets NOW- Davis does that for them in spades.

I added it up and with Davis' contract, Washington would have $84.5 million in contracts for next year, $13 million over the cap, assuming next year's cap remains the same.

@Ty
I want a 2 guard who can reliably hit open shots, on occasion creates his own, and is smart enough to know when he is covered and pass the ball. That sounds like Harden from everything I've read, though Curry reads like a good fit too. Isn't Derozen the one they are describing as a great athelete, but not such a great shooter? If so, I think we have several of those already.

@Steve H
I have to disagree about Washington taking on Davis' contract.

They'd be going into next year with two injury-prone, shoot-first, aging PGs, one who hasn't played a meaningful game in two years and another of who is a notorious sulker when things aren't going well. In addition to the contracts of Davis and Arenas, they would also still be paying the contracts of Jamison ($11.6), Butler ($9.7), Etan Thomas ($7.3), Haywood ($6), and Songalia ($4.5). They would have to completely decimate their bench to come anywhere near the luxury tax line and would only have a chance to make the playoffs if no one got injured, nevermind the fact that having two shoot-first 6'3" PGs would be a terrible combination with zero defense.

But next season wouldn't even be the worst part. If they took on Davis' contract, Washington would still be paying $37 million between Davis (35 in 2013-14) and Arenas (32 in 2013-14) in the 2013-2014 season (5 seasons from now) . The combination of Davis' and Arenas' contracts over the course of the next five years would absolutely be a franchise killer.

@Steve H
I would love to do that personally but i would rather take a chance at DeRazon because in the long road he could develop to be better than Harden. But Harden is still fine with me.

@Nix
The only rule I have read is that the salaries must be within %125 of each other if one team is over the cap. Last years fifth pick made 3.16 million. Mike James is scheduled to make 6.4 million. B.Davis is set to make 12.15 million. If those figures aren't within %125 of each other, they could throw in their smallest contract to make up the difference. Salary cap is not really an issue. What do you think of that line-up? We could make that happen if Presti is willing. Do you see Memphis, or LA, or Washington turning does any of those offers, and if so, why?

Forget Blake Griffin... how the hell do we get Dwight Howard?
:)

@Steve H
I'm pretty sure (90% positive) the Baron Davis to the Wiz part won't work for cap reasons.

Regarding the season ticket thingy, I have to make a confession. I didn't go to any of the games at the Ford Center. All I can afford are nose bleed seats, and that didn't really appeal to me. And it will probably be the same next season.

I ran into a guy a couple of weeks ago who was wearing a Thunder logo shirt and struck up a conversation. He had a season ticket at a pretty decent location - I think he said it was about $1000. He had pooled his money with 5 or 6 of his buddies and they rotated who went to the games. Although he really loved the experience, he wasn't going to renew - just too expensive. He's just going to watch them on TV.

I'm glad though, that there are others in a higher income bracket than myself willing to snap up the season tickets. At the very least, I can say that interest in the team is growing based on the ever increasing number of people you see wearing Thunder logo shirts around town.

Another random link for ya. Came across this pic and, for some reason, I really like it!

i10.photobucket.com/albums/a103/mrm1433/6246logo.jpg

She's a fashion model, named Mary Scott, currently living (it would appear) in Edmond. Appeared on the March 09 cover of Edmond Monthly. She was one of the models in the 'Passion for Fashion' AIDS benefit back in March that Nick Collison (and his wife) hosted at the Chesapeake boathouse.

Her page is
www.modelmayhem.com/168484

From newsok.com

"The Thunder was one of only four NBA teams to have a season-ticket waiting list.

With the Phoenix Suns, like many other teams, experiencing a drop-off in season-ticket renewals, Oklahoma City could join the Lakers and Celtics as the only teams to have a waiting list for the 2009-10 season."

That is friggin awesome.

Orlando to the finals!

Now if the Magic can take the whole thing ... oh, how sweet that would be!

Look at this lineup:
PG SG
R.Westbrook J.Harden
S.Livingston T.Sefalosha
M.James K.Weaver
SF
K.Durant
D.Mason
T.Griffin
PF C
B.Griffin M.Gortat
D.White N.Krstic
S.Ibaka

Here's how we get there: 1)Swap picks with Memphis in exchange for Nick Collison and our first and second round picks in 2010. I can't see any other team matching that deal, and it is the only way the Grizz are assured of landing Thabeet. 2)Send the #2 pick(Rubio),Green, Watson, the#25 pick, Phoenix's 2010 first rounder, and our first and second round picks for 2011 in exchange for this years #1(Griffin) and Baron Davis. If the Clipps are considering any offers at all, they would have to say yes to that one. 3)Offer B.Davis to Wizards for the #5 pick(Harden)and Mike James. B.Davis should be a great fit in Washington's run and gun offense along side agent zero. This is a no brainer. We then re-sign D.Mason, offer a league minimum contract to T.Griffin, and out-bid the competition for Gortat (somewhere between 12 and 18 mill over 3 yrs should do the trick) Each of these deals look like we are wildly over-compensating the other team, but the end result is that line-up I started with. If we CAN make that team happen, don't we have to? I can't come up with a better possible line-up that could both realistically happen, and that would be halfway sustainable when the initial contracts expire.

watching the Magic plays...
does the forward combo of Hedo and Rashard reminds you of Green and durant? I mean they are both considered as best positioned as SF, and Hedo and Rashard had been giving matchup nightmare to opposing teams. can Durant and Green do that too?

ofcause magic has D12...

@Steve H
good point there.

@Ty
I was heart broken when the Chandler deal fell through, but seeing as he has played very little since the deal was rescinded, and looked like crap when he did play, I have come to regard that decision as yet another example of Presti's brilliance.

For the most part, Chandler was playing like a stiff this season. He did have a few games that were dominant, but not many. His season numbers per 36 minutes are below that of Nick Collison this year, and Nick makes half the money and is 3 inches shorter.

Tyson was very good last year. He is just not the same player this year, and the med staff must suspect that his problems are degenerative, or at least likely to linger. I think to shut down this trade was the right thing to do, especially after he had to have surgery earlier this week on the toe that he claimed was not a problem at all after the trade was rescinded.

I don't like Chandler at over $11 million a year with a bum ankle and foot. But if he had been healthy, I would agree with you, Ty.

Would anyone have liked it if we KEPT Chandler in the trade and drafted a SG this year?
We would have won more games with Chandler in our lineup so lets say we get the 7th pick. We would still have a chance at getting DeRazon, Curry, or Holiday.
I would have liked that a lot better than what we have now. I still like what we do have now but i think we would have been better off with Chandler.

Another one, this time about free agents:

"The OKC Thunder Shopping List"

layupdrill.com/2009/05/the-okc-thunder-shopping-list/

Hmmm...

David Lee - ok, don't know how likely this is, but I see the logic
Ben Gordon - same again
Allen Iverson - huh??? are you kidding me?

They said DeRazon has been hitting his shots so i wonder if we have a chance to make a trade with Washington if we would take DeRazon or Harden.

I wonder because DeRazon has a big wing span, huge hands, good form, great athleticism, and could be a great defender with all of his physical abilities if he works hard at it.

Shawn Scott at BleacherReport has a little article titled

"OKC Thunder: The Offseason to Turn This Team Around"

bleacherreport.com/articles/188895-okc-thunder-the-offseason-to-turn-this-team-around

Nothing terribly new here. But I don't disagree with the guy. At least it shows that some folks (outside of OK) are watching the team and thinkin' about its future, which is cool in and of itself.

@Alex

what he said . . .

I feel like drafting Holiday would be like drafting the same player two years in a row...We really need someone who can already shoot it and everything I've seen about Holiday says that he's a great athlete, but that he doesn't shoot the ball well yet. I'm down with Harden or Curry...I wasn't feeling Curry for a while but it sounds like he's looked awesome at the combine so far.

don't see the fuss over holiday . . . I've read accounts from several UCLA fans on various boards - none were impressed . . .

btw, KD's back in town. Maybe we should all go over to his house and offer to play him Yahtzee or Battleship? Hey, life can't all be about going to the gym. He's got to have fun too (all work and no play make Jack a dull boy)

notice how I didn't mention Rubio, Thabeet, or Harden in this post!
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oops

@Vega
Couldn't agree any more at the moment.
What about Curry?

God, it does not get better than that. That's about 50 percent of my childhood right there, imaging myself taking the court to that song.

No argument from me. I would be happy with Holiday, Harden, or DeRozan.

well not an argument.

I think Jrue Holiday would be a nice fit for maybe the double point guard offense with Westbrook. I wouldn't want to give up the third pick and Green to get Griffin. But I'm open to a persuasive argument for anyone who would like to try to persuade me.