Five minutes don’t go by without me changing my mind on Ricky Rubio or James Harden. I’ll start to get really excited about Harden and all the intangibles he can 
bring. But then I see a couple Rubio highlights and I picture him on a fast break with Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant and I forget all about that other guy. I’ll get intrigued by Rubio’s potential and flash but then on the other hand, I see Harden’s need. Of course, there’s some outside options (Steph Curry, Hasheem Thabeet), or Memphis could make up Oklahoma City’s mind for it by taking one or the other, but I get the feeling Sam Presti is picking between these two guys.
But one thing’s holding some people back on Rubio, potentially one of those people even being Russell Westbrook. The Thunder’s already got a point guard and he may not want to move over.
When Westbrook was asked about Rubio getting picked by OKC, which would mean he’d slide to the 2 he replied, “You trippin’.” Doesn’t sound like he’s thrilled about the idea. But you never know how he said it. He may have said it with a huge grin on his face and maybe followed up with, “Of course I’m down with doing whatever’s best for the team though.” Westbrook has said repeatedly that he wants to be a point guard and I don’t doubt him. I wanted to be an astronaut but at some point I had to realize maybe that wasn’t happening. (Not to say Russ isn’t a point guard by any means. I’m just saying that if he has to slide over, I’m sure he’d rather play than sit.)
I know the report today is that Westbrook wouldn’t be happy about Rubio stepping in. And that’s fine, I’d understand that. But I don’t think it should be taken as a “You’re not a point guard, move over” type of thing. And I don’t think Westbrook would take it that way. Sure, maybe he’d be a little bothered by the fact he was getting pushed over for the new guy, but the game of basketball is a free flowing thing. It’s not like the Colts drafting Sam Bradford and telling Peyton Manning he has to be a tight end. The ball will still be in Westbrook’s hands plenty and he’ll probably stay every bit the point guard he is right now. Because if we’re honest with ourselves, and Russ is honest with himself, it’s not like he’s going to be a player like Steve Nash that racks up 15 or 16 assists. He’s a scoring point guard and that’s what he wants to be.
I worry a little about offending Russ. He seems intent on being a point guard and I’d hate to hurt his confidence by bringing in Rubio. If that report is accurate, then that’s a little bothersome. It doesn’t sound like the Westbrook I’ve watched and listened to for a year though. He never struck me as a prima-donna, I-get-what-I-want-and-I’ll-ask-out-if-I-don’t-get-it kind of player. He seems like a do-what’s-best-for-the-team kind of guy. But I could be wrong.
And I’d understand Westbrook being a little bothered by it. That’s natural. You don’t want to feel like what you did last year wasn’t good enough. But hopefully any animosity and chemistry issues could be put aside for the sake of a good team. But if that’s not possible, hear me now – don’t mess with a good thing. Take Harden, take Curry, God-forbid take Thabeet. If Westbrook is truly serious, I’d rather have a guy that just finished a rookie season 15-5-5 and has the whole league buzzing over an 18-year-old that nobody really knows anything about outside of a few Internet videos. But that’s just me.But I think the two can play together as a combo point. Just like some baseball teams have a closer by committee, OKC could have point guard by committee. But this would have them both pitching at the same time. Sure there’s questions about them both being “below-average” jumpshooters. But it’s not like their not going to get better. Westbrook is 19. Rubio is 18. Umm, I think they’ll improve their shots.
My theory about Sam Presti’s strategy is that he prefers tweeners. He likes guys that can move over a spot and play shooting guard. Or maybe they can play big and step in at the 4. He likes the flexibility versatile players give him. That way in situations like this, he has breathing room. When Presti drafted Westbrook last year, I don’t think he had an idea of where he was going to play. He just knew Westbrook had the ability and the skill to get it done. A guy like Stephen Curry is the same way. He doesn’t fit a position perfectly, but he’s too good to keep off the court so you figure it out.
If the Thunder were to take Ricky Rubio tomorrow night, that flexibility would come in handy. Westbrook could just slide to the 2-guard, right? Potentially wrong. Because I think Presti may even want moreversatility on the court. As in two point guards. We saw it a ton last year. Westbrook and Earl Watson together for extended minutes. Shaun Livingston and Russ together. Chucky Atkins and Westbrook. Kyle Weaver running point with Westbrook off the ball. There’s nothing wrong with two ball-handlers on the court together. In fact, that could make the offense that much more dynamic.
Rubio is the distributor. The guy that wants to pass, wants to make teammates better. And Westbrook could continue to do what he likes doing – driving recklessly at the bucket and scoring and creating. Just because Russ would technically be penciled in at shooting guard in the box score doesn’t mean he would have the ball in his hands. They can feed off each other. If Presti took Curry I think the same thing would happen. Heck, if he took James Harden I think Westbrook and Harden would share a lot of the ball-handling duties. Even if OKC goes with Thabeet, you’ll see a lot of Livingston-Westbrook, Thabo-Westbrook, Weaver-Westbrook anyway. Scott Brooks said one time that he sees five point guards playing together in the NBA in 10 years. Maybe that’s the vision they have now.
But people don’t seem to necessarily get the idea of Westbrook and Rubio together. They don’t seem to understand that while Westbrook is a fantastic talent, he’s not necessarily a pure point guard. And he probably won’t ever be. But that’s a good thing. Westbrook wasn’t drafted to stand out front, take five shots, pass and cut through and have 14 assists. He’s a playmaker, a rover, a guy that just lets the flow of the game direct him. Westbrook is a hybrid player that can fit and flow in most any situation. And that’s what makes him such a dynamic talent. Coupling that with a player like Rubio could render fantastic results. And I’m sure if Westbrook doesn’t understand that today, that could be easily explained to him.
Like I said, this could be the best thing for Westbrook. Being in a backcourt with another guy that can distribute and set him up so that he can roam the floor and fly around like he loves to. Just because Ricky Rubio’s name is called tomorrow night with the third pick doesn’t mean the Russell Westbrook point guard experience is over. It’s still just beginning. You could make a case that Dwyane Wade plays as much point as Mario Chalmers. Or that Brandon Roy is as much a point guard as Steve Blake. In this league players aren’t type-cast for a position anymore. You better be able to move over or move around or we’ll find someone that can. It’s OK for a guy to be versatile. Heck, like I said, I think that’s Presti’s intent.
Honestly, I’m not sure it’s going to matter a whole lot who Presti picks. Much of what shapes a draft pick is the situation they find themselves in. And either Harden or Rubio will walk into a place with a ton of talent, a hungry coach and a management plan that’s as good as you’ll find. This team will attempt to execute the vision Presti and Scott Brooks have regardless of who is wearing the jerseys.
Of course this is all irrelevant if someone else’s name is called tomorrow night. But I just don’t want anyone to freak out about the idea of a Rubio-Westbrook backcourt. Especially someone named Russell Westbrook. I actually get pretty excited thinking about it. And I would hope everyone else would too.
If I had to guess right now, I think OKC takes Rubio. I would have said Harden two days ago, but I think Presti wants Rubio. Ask me again in 10 minutes and I’ll be back to Harden. Another five and maybe I’ll think Curry. Another 15 and maybe I’ll say Thabeet. To which I’ll plunge myself into a bed of hot coals.
But we’ll all know tomorrow night and I think we’ll be alright with whatever happens. Say it with me, I Believe In Sam Presti.
3 players can be huge impact, even one can. But in the end it is 6 to 9 players and how they fit that determines wins.
So far Westbrook-Durant-Green fit far better off the court than on. Is Rubio the lock that unlocks the "potential" of the core?
He could. But on some levels it seems unlikely.
If they take him either Durant embraces him as a full member of the posse or it won't have much chance. Will the others even follow Durant's lead on this? I doubt it deep inside. But that is for them to figure out if it happens.
J.G. I am certainly not saying Tripucka and Long were as important (in the end) as others like Laimbeer and Johnson. I was not really fully analyzing the Pistons as much as just noting some aspects of their story that could apply to the Thunder.
It does show that relative importance can shift over time and the top scorer are not necessarily the most important guys.
And that specific overall role fulfillment matters over just "ball player" stats. In the end Laimbeer and Johnson fit specific roles around Thomas better than at least Tripucka and / or just lasted til the right time period with enough vets and coaching.
I figured that , but it was comical nonetheless . . .
I highly doubt that was really Russ.
@Royce
Sorry for yelling. I'll use my indoor voice.
It's just the first time I've seen a comment on here by someone claiming to be an actual player, and it was doggin' us instead of giving you and the fans props for caring(obsessing, really) in the first place. RW is probably my fav player on the team, but this seemingly new attitude can't be good for our chemistry.(might not even be him though.)
I'd like to get Curry, but when's the last time that an all out scorer translated from College to the NBA? Steph Curry reminds me of a JJ Redick type. Redick can't score in the NBA so now he just plays D and rebounds, but Steph Curry can't make that sort of transition because of his size.
I don't really want Rubio if he can't score because that's just pointless in our situation. I'm not saying he can't, I just don't know cuz i haven't seen any highlights of him. If he can't, then get James Harden for toughness.
@Royce
LOUD NOISES!
Can't wait for tonight...but I can't help but have an inkling that Presti will make some trades before it.
@Anonymous
WHY ARE WE YELLING??!?!?!
Rumors of a possible trade between PHX and Houston--
Amar'e and Barbosa for Brooks, Landry, and McGrady. Interesting if nothing else.
Whether you want Westbrook and Rubio to co-exist depends on the model you want to use. Russell is often compared to Dwayne Wade, who is NOT a three-point shooter (last year was his best at 31.7 percent from behind the line). I don't know that it's wise to limit three-point production by giving Russell big minutes at shooting guard, but it would still allow him to do what he does best.
@Russell Westbrook
this ain't you, RW, is it? why call out your most loyal of Thunder fans?!
(It's probably some mad Seattle fan being cute, huh?)
JIC...
REMEMBER THIS, YOUNG ONE. There is no "I" in "team", so either get on the bus or get run over by it.
That being said...you got a great game and lots of potential, so find your roll and excell at it. (develope a 3-point shot and you'll be buying helicopters, yo!)
This will bring more value to your game/contracts. (not to mention, growing with a young, talented core of ball-players!)
We want championships here in OKC, not the next Starburry.
@Crow
I think you (and Berry Tramel, for that matter) are forgetting about the 1982 trades of a defensive and rebounding big man in Bill Laimbeer from the Cleveland Cavaliers and the clutch shooting of Vinnie Johnson from, none other than the Seattle Supersonics, who just so happened to nail the game winning shot when the Pistons won the 1990 NBA Finals. Oh, and those two guys comprise one-third of only six Piston players to have had their jerseys retired.
Laimbeer and Johnson were just as responsible, if not more responsible, for the 18 game turnaround than the trio of Isiah, Long and Tripucka.
It'd be like if the Thunder landed Rip Hamilton and Marcus Camby in their primes.
You ALL trippin...I'm the point guard!
Notice too that trio won 39 their first season together. 18 better than the year before. Westbrook-Durant-Green improved by 3 over previous season.
I put this post in the Tuesday thread a bit ago, before I read this, but should have put it here
If it is Rubio-Westbrook at least it is two above average size guys. That is the way to do it.
Lots of the 2 small PG lineups last a year then you look at the +/- and there are generally blah to terrible and eventually the coach or the GM or the stat guy quietly reduces it or phases it out. New Orleans gave up on it. Denver gave up on it. Detroit gave up on it. It never worked in Memphis.
The two PGs with size (and some defense) together has worked in Cleveland. For awhile in Washington before Arenas got hurt and Daniels became a shadow. J-Williams -Wade won a title. Blake-Roy is sorta of that even if you don’t think of it way initially. Rose-Hinrich really ought to be milked heavy, far heavier than it has. Kidd-Terry,anybody and M Daniels in Indiana count too to me.
If they go Rubio-Westbrook- and they get along- then a lob to the rim that Westbrook cuts or backcuts to go get should be an option off of almost any play.
And now some new material
Barry Tramel:
"In NBA history, 449 teams have produced a trio of players that combined to average at least 57 points a game. Of those 449 trios, only 10 had ages that added up to less than 70 years old.
Durant, Westbrook and Green were a combined 62; that's an average age of 20.7 years. The next-youngest trio — 1982 Pistons John Long, Kelly Tripucka and Isiah Thomas — were 67."
That was interesting to find and mention.
But I dug into it a bit further and I think this is interesting too:
Pistons with that trio
year 1 39-43
year 2 37-45
year 3 get Chuck Daly (replacing a guy named Scotty.... Robertson) and go 49-33 lost in first round 3-2
year 4 46-36 Long and Tripucka slide back to 4 and 5th on scoring win first round lose second
year 5 46-36 lose first round Long drifts out of starting lineup
year 6 52-30 lose conference finals but Tripucka and Long are gone and 3 of the starters are 29 or older and Thomas is 25.
year 7 54-28 lose Finals with 3 starters 30 and over and 2 more of the top 9 rotation
year 8 63-19 and NBA champs all but one of the top 9 are 27+
Observations: It took a long time, a great coach, defense and moving beyond 2 of the intial trio and aging til almost everyone was a vet to get to the promised land.
1 month ago and i wanted thabeet, then it was Harden and now it is Rubio, i have my doubts about Rubio but if he is still on the board then i think we should take him either for trade purposes or for his game. Watching the clips he looks like a hard worker, hustler and c ould really help us late in games aswell. Durant, green Kristic etc could really benefit from him being on the court. Here's hoping he's not another Jason Williams, just flash but i dont think he is.
1
@Paul
damn this kid is special.
Harden Curry Rubio, give me any one tomorrow and i will be a very happy thunder fan, for years to come.
Bernard :
Shaq to cavs done.
the suns 2010 pick looks better and better now.
Yep. Imagine if we, got, say Monroe in the draft next year. In 2010 we could run out an entire lineup of lottery picks -- maybe even top-5 picks, all under the age of 24. No matter what happens in this year's draft, man, it's good to be a Thunder fan.
I think you guys should watch this ricky rubio clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5mpST596qU
It's a clip from his play at the olympics.wach the steal in the end vs USA (that's CP3 right??)
notice how tight-lipped Sam is in that photo!
Bernard :
Shaq to cavs done.
the suns 2010 pick looks better and better now.
Exactly! I would say Phoenix is officially rebuilding and that pick could be VERY valuable next year!
In Sam Presti we trust...
http://s3.amazonaws.com/newsok-photos/585124/medium.jpg
Heh.
(from newsok.com/sports/thunder for those who wonder)
not sure how that message got screwed up
If he can play off the ball with some success then maybe I stand corrected. But his shot is suspect, at best.
And how many championships do Kidd, Williams and Paul have?
@Keith
If he can play off the ball with some success then maybe I stand corrected. But his shot is suspect, at best.
And how many championships do Kidd, Williams and Paul have? Sorta pokes a hole in the pure point guard theory.
Either way, I've said it before, I'll be happy if Rubio comes to OKC, I just prefer someone else.
Shaq to cavs done.
the suns 2010 pick looks better and better now.
@Bryan
Actually, Rubio played a decent amount off the ball in Europe. He's actually a pretty good spot up shooter. He's not going to stop and pull up for a 20 foot jumper with a hand in his face, but if his man leaves him to help on Westbrook, he can nail an open shot.
As for him being useless off the ball, that's opinion. One, I wouldn't play him off the ball. I'd play the guy who likes to run headlong into defenders when he has open shooters on the wing off the ball. Two, he was still DPOY in Europe, so he can defend if nothing else. Three, how useful is Jason Kidd, Deron Williams, or even Chris Paul off the ball? He's a PG who gets the ball to the right player at the right time. That seems to be highly underrated these days.
Nice...good for James and Shaq
Yahoo Sports is reporting that the Shaq to Cavs trade has been agreed to in principle...
@Keith
No, but I would kill for just one good perimeter player besides Jeff Green, even if it's a spot up shooter. I don't see the value in have a point guard like Rubio who is completely useless off the ball. It just makes no sense.
Griffin, Thabeet, Hardin.....in that order, is how we should rate the possible 1st picks. I dont like the idea of Rubio at all, I just have a feeling he brings some baggage with him, both red tape wise and mentall toughness wise. He doesnt seem like a team-concept, big picture guy. If they dont get a blockbuster trade pulled off, and Thabeet is available, he fits our needs best, and has more potential to contrubute more, sooner. I'd rather take a gamble on an under developed 7 footer with alot of potential and not alot of pressure to come in and produce right away, than another guard. Not only are we hurtin for any backup to Krstik, but our guard situation is lookin good and guards are a dime a dozen. But, like I said, I am REALLY hopin' they find a way to get Griffin, then we have a special team, instantly.
Note: I'm not saying Curry or Harden will make us the Clippers, just that prizing shot creation and fit aren't the best ways to draft. Jamal Crawford can create his own shot, and he was just traded for garbage. I doubt Curry or Harden end up like that, but it exemplifies money and picks gone wrong.
@Kev
We are so very agreed on that. Our offense was atrocious in crunch-time especially. I won't be disappointed if we get Curry either.
@Mo
Durant can score like Wade, Lebron, and Kobe, but that doesn't make him the same player. Every single one of those players beat him on assists by 2 per game, Lebron and Wade by more than twice his total. Durant is a star in the making, but he's not a distributor.
@Bryan
Harden and Curry could be good fits, but lets take a note from the Clippers. Having 4-5 guys who can create space for themselves doesn't make them a good team.
@Mo
Agreed...Harden and Curry would do that well. Curry can hit contested shots from anywhere on the court. He is great at creating space for himself. And Harden has a nice shot as well. Plus he fits on defense. I still say if Rubio is available, trade down.
@Mo
I don't know how many games you watched last year, but it was painfully obvious that the Thunder needed a true PG at the end of games - it was painful watching some of those contests - that was probably the only time I've ever watched games and hoped that my team didn't screw it up - that's one of the MANY reasons why you need a true PG . . .
Trust me Keith, if we get Rubio, I will be pleased . . .
The thing that I have wondered with the whole Rubio/Westbrook situation is this, do you really need a true point guard if your the Thunder? Look at the perimeter players that are on Durant's level, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, etc., none of them play with a true passing point guard. Players like that don't need someone to create shots for them, they create their own. And to a point, it is almost a detriment to take the ball out of your best players hands and give it to someone that has less scoring ability. For the Thunder, Westbrook, Green, and Durant can create their own offense, and as Westbrook gets better he'll be able to create offense for Kristic and others. I think that the Thunder would be better off finding someone to stretch the court and give the Big Three more room to work rather than getting someone to dominate the ball.
@Kev
I'm not questioning Curry's heart. I think everyone sans Thabeet at the top has heart. But Curry played with no talent and scored 30 a night. If this was two years ago, I'd say grab the guy who I know can score even if his team is terrible (since the Sonics were devoid of talent after the trades). But we're not in that situation anymore. Get a guy who can make the pieces that Presti set in place move together.
Ya know what...I'm just going to stop vying for my favorite pick and just accept the fact that, one, it doesn't matter what I say and, two, regardless of who we pick, there is a strong possibility that they greatly improve the team.
Rubio has high risk (chemistry) but higher reward
Curry fills a need for a sharp shooter
Harden fills a need for a solid SG that can shoot the ball and create
Thabeet, at the very least, gives the team some defensive presence
And any trade probably gives us a lot more.
Add a player that we can develop overseas with the 25 pick and grab some assets over the summer, and this quickly becomes a very good basketball team.
Here's to moving up in the world...
One of the reasons I really like Curry goes unmentioned - I know he has heart . . .
he played with little talent this year, but he never whined and led his team well . . . I KNOW Curry is a guy that will still be playing when his team is getting blown out . . .
I think Andrew has it right. All of these guys we are looking at look like they could be good players. Rubio, however, more than anyone else, looks like a player who will make others better. We already have good players. We need someone who can help Brooks get the best out out of them.
Kev :
Wilson :@KevMakes sense, I’m just not completely sold on Curry and won’t be till I’m proven wrong…
you will see
Yes we will! :) You bet the farm, hope it pays off for you!
I haven't been completely sold on Curry either, but the one thing I really like about, as compared to everyone else in the draft, is that he can nail those contested jump shots that make the great ones great...It's a skill you can't teach.
Wilson :@KevMakes sense, I’m just not completely sold on Curry and won’t be till I’m proven wrong…
you will see :)
Kev :I have come to the conclusion that if I was GM, based on how things are progressing, I am coming out of tomorrow’s draft with Rubio or Curry . . . so the answer is NO to your third trade . . .
Wilson :
Kev :@Wilson sorry - the 3 and 25 for the 5 and 6 - Memphis wouldnt do that . . .
What do you think of the others, specifically the last one?
@Kev
Makes sense, I'm just not completely sold on Curry and won't be till I'm proven wrong...
Great points GirlBaller. Top notch even and as always Royce I'm on board with your thoughts. For now duh duh dun... ;-)
I have come to the conclusion that if I was GM, based on how things are progressing, I am coming out of tomorrow's draft with Rubio or Curry . . . so the answer is NO to your third trade . . .
Wilson :@KevSo how is drafting Curry different than Rubio?
Curry has contended he is a PG the ENTIRE time, through every interview! If their would be a problem for RW (which I don’t think their would be) it would potentially be the same with Curry…
It probably would be the same, but at lest Curry can give up the ball if need be and run off screens - you don't draft Rubio to play off the ball - it's like drafting Peyton Manninng to play RB - Rubio is a natural point guard, I think Curry will be a very good point guard, BUT at least if RW is at the 1 (sometimes) he has a great shooter to kick to on the outside - maybe that will make him feel better. I hope all this stuff with RW is overblown, but it doesn't SOUND good. I think team chemistry is VERY important, but when your record is 23-59, changes have to be made . . .
Kev :@Wilson
sorry - the 3 and 25 for the 5 and 6 - Memphis wouldnt do that . . .
What do you think of the others, specifically the last one?