ESPN logoTrueHoop Network
An ESPN Affiliate
Daily Thunder.com
  • Home
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Contact
  • Team
    • Salaries
    • Roster
    • Schedule & Events
  • Commenting Guidelines

How the Thunder can contend for a title

by Joe on June 6, 2009 at 4:55 pm 22 Comments

Ok, stop laughing. I am not talking about next year, but about a long term approach to team building that puts the Thunder into the upper crust of NBA teams competing for the golden trophy. The concept is very simplistic, but in some regards that’s the beauty of it. Keep it simple right? Easy to understand is always better than complex for me.

The idea is first that we have to put players on the team that can get it done. This isn’t as easy as it might seem. There is a lot to team building. You have to get pieces that fit, that compliment each other, that produce as a team, and that can grow together to form a multi-year run at the title. Few teams have been able to “buy” a championship, but it has been done. Sam Presti hasn’t shown any inclination to build a team through a series of big time free agent signings or trades, but he isn’t beyond trying to pluck that special player that is the missing ingredient (Tyson Chandler…). So I am concentrating on players that are in the nucleus now, and the upcoming draft.

I borrowed the concept from a paragraph or two in a blog post over at Hornets 24/7. The way the author (Ryan Schwan) suggests nearly every team that wins a championship has their team structured is around the concept of “A” and “B” scorers (here with reference to the Hornet’s roster):

“it seems to me that there are two ways to contend for a title in the NBA: Field a team with two Class A scorers, and surround them with specialists(see Shaq-Kobe or Shaq-Wade, 2nd Three-Peat Bulls) or field a team with one Class A scorer, and two Class B scorers, then fill in around the edges.(Ginobili-Duncan-Parker, Jordan-Pippen-Grant, Dantley-Thomas-Dumars, Hamilton-Billups-Sheed) The Hornets are currently built around a Class A scorer(Paul) and one Class B scorer(West), and one scorer(Peja) who they hoped would be Class B, but has fallen to Class C. To me, they either need to find another class B scorer on the cheap or try and upgrade their Class B scorer to a Class A one. The question is, however, who do I classify as a Class A or Class B Scorer? Class A are those players who are not only efficient scorers(points per shot of 1.3 or better) but whom retain that efficiency while taking around a dozen shots or more. Class B are those scorers who average between 1.2 and 1.3 points per shot, while taking the same number of shots per game.”

I crunched some of the numbers from recent successful teams and it’s a decent starting point for team success.

Last year’s Boston Celtics had the big three of Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett and a nice blend of role players. Pierce was an A+ scorer at 1.42 pps, Garnett was an A scorer at 1.35 pps and Ray Allen was a B+ scorer at 1.29 pps. Two A’s, a B and a nice set of role players. This season the Celtics couldn’t get past Orlando, but Garnett’s class A offense was missing. Pierce was still phenomenal at 1.40 pps, Allen stepped up to 1.37 pps, but Garnett fell off during the regular season and was barely a class B scorer at 1.21 pps. In the playoffs without Garnett, Rondo and Big Baby Davis absorbed most of Garnett’s usual touches, but it wasn’t enough. Davis was a B scorer at 1.26 pps on 12.5 fga/gm, but Rondo was not so good at 1.05 pps on 15.9 fga/gm. They still had an A scorer and two B scorers, but they had Rondo shooting like he was an A scorer when he was in the D range.

Since the Thunder were one of the poorest scoring teams in the league last season, this formula has some application (we’ll talk about defense later). The points per shot calculation is as simple as pie. How many points a player scores divided by field goal attempts. It is a measure of offensive efficiency. Many players out there put up a lot of points, but at what cost? Volume scorers need a lot of shots to get their points, and hurt efficiency. Each team in a basketball gets a limited number of shots, so to waste them hampers the team’s chances of winning. Players that are class A or B scorers in the NBA are such because they either get most of their offense close to the basket (think Dwight Howard, Shaquille O’Neal), or they shoot and make a lot of threes (Ray Allen, Danny Granger), or they are good finishers who get to the line a lot and hit the freebies (Kevin Durant, Kevin Martin, Brandon Roy), or a combination of many of those things (Dwayne Wade). But to be considered an A or B scorer, a player has to be able to do it while being a main cog of the offense for the team. He has to do it while shooting a dozen or so times per game. That’s where the list begins to shrink. There are currently 29 players that are class A scorers in the league (at least 1.3 points per shot + > 11.2 shots per game).

The Thunder are blessed to have a bona fide class A scorer. A player that puts the ball in the hole and puts points on the board (at least 1.3 points per shot), while shooting a lot and being the focus of the opponent’s defense most nights. Kevin doesn’t currently shoot that many threes in the Thunder offense, but he is 7th in the NBA in field goal attempts, and 10th in the NBA in free throw attempts and he hits his freebies at 86.3%, just outside of the top 20 in the NBA. He does this in his second season as a pro, so there is lots of optimism.

But according to the formula posited by Ryan Schwan, we need either two more class B scorers (and the right mix of bench support) or another class A scorer. A quick peek at the men on the Thunder who shoot the ball frequently enough to be considered class A or class B scorers:

Durant: 1.34 pps-18.8 fga/gm
Green: 1.20 pps-13.7 fga/gm
Westbrook: 1.14 pps-13.4 fga/gm

Jeff Green qualifies (just barely) as a class B scorer in his second season (pps of 1.20-1.29). There is obviously good reason to think that his game will continue to improve along with his efficiency, and move him up closer to the ranks of a class A scorer, but for now he ranks out as a legitimate complimentary piece. Russell however doesn’t qualify. He is shooting a lot, but at 1.14 pps, he rates out as very average at best, and not somebody who should be shooting 13 times a game. Again, he was a rookie, and learning a new position, and there is hope that he will refine his efficiency.

So we need another class A scorer, or a solid class B scorer to pair with this group to move into more elite company. Let’s take a look at the candidates currently on the roster:
Krstic: 1.09 pps
Weaver: 1.21 pps
Mason: 1.03 pps
Collison: 1.36 pps
Wilkins: 1.02 pps
Thabo: 1.11 pps
Livingston: 1.19 pps
D.J.White: 1.24 pps

Collison qualifies as a class A scorer based on his points per shot of 1.36 (a team high), but he only shot the ball 6 times per game. Even if he got starters minutes, he would average about 8.4 shots per 36 minutes. Nick gets nearly all of his offense close to the basket with putbacks, dunks, cuts and very basic post moves. Having watched him his whole career, it’s a safe bet that his offensive efficiency would suffer if he forced it enough to get up to the 11 or 12 shots per game threshold.

D.J. White might be the best option of the players currently on the roster based on his efficiency and skill set. His pps of 1.24 is nicely in the middle of the class B range, although he only played a few games due to injury. He shows solid stroke facing the basket out to midrange and he has the tools around the basket. The problem is that he plays the same position as our two other class B candidates Jeff Green and Nick Collison. So to give D.J. the touches and minutes to allow him to reach the threshold would be taking away from Jeff Green.

Kyle Weaver is an efficient enough scorer to qualify as a class B candidate, but I don’t think you could get him to shoot enough. He’s extremely deferential on the court, and if he became a focus of the defense, his efficiency would definitely suffer. He is better suited to being one of the complimentary players.

So according to the formula, we need to re-arrange the pieces a bit, and get some class A or class B scoring from someplace else.

In part 2 I will look at some possible players we might want to look at in the draft with an eye towards the class A or B scorers.

Categories
Other
Previous Post Saturday Morning Cartoons: Scott Brooks goes coast-to-coast
Next Post How to contend pt.2
21 comments
  Livefyre
  • Get Livefyre
  • FAQ
Sign in
+ Follow
Post comment
 
Link
Newest | Oldest
Crow
Crow 5pts

Er... Allen is just short of 20k at the moment but will get there.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Allen is #2 on 3s made all-time and has a good shot to end up #1. He is over 20,000 points and as a Celtics champion I doubt the HOF in Mass would leave out a hoped for tourist draw.

Pierce is getting towards 20k and probably hits 25k and could go higher depending on health and how long he wants to play.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Yao is only about half way thru his career so his cumulative score isn't as high as older players. There should be a table by age to project ultimate HOF probabilty rather than just probability based on stats to date. But he will probably get HOF with size and ethnicity helping if he needs it. Low voting for him on MVP hurts some.

Ryan Schwan
Ryan Schwan 5pts

Hey Joe. I feel warm and fuzzy to be quoted.

I didn't say as much, but it's always been my opinion it's harder to find skilled, efficient scorers than players of mediocre scoring ability able to play defense. If you land two true Class A scorers and surround them with defensive specialists who can hit an open shot or two, you've got a good chance as long as those Class A scorers are at least competent at defense.

The key is first finding those scorers, and then giving them the appropriate support.

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

That's a cool link Crow. I'm surprised to find Yao so low a probability. I'd bet he'll make it more on a social agenda than a stats/championships agenda.

And Paul Pierce and Ray Allen have better chances than I thought.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Billups' Hall of Fame chances put at 1 in 4 here
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_active.html

I'd guess it is higher but the HOF is run unfair people and a weird process. And I don't respect their decisions.

Part of the offensive design question is salary management. If you can get a top level class A you are off to go a good start. After that you have to look at performance / salary and what else you can afford & when. If Green stays low class B that is the level you should pay him or move him.

Joe
Joe 5pts

The idea of having a sure fire HOF'er on a championship team is interesting. It makes me wonder if that would be Chauncey Billups on the Pistons that one year.

I wouldn't really consider him a HOF, but maybe I am wrong.

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

Well of course there is no way to cover the entire spectrum of what it takes to win a championship in one blog post. But as a microcosm I think this holds merit. You always hear the phrase "Great one-two punch", and the teams who have them, win. Especially, a diversified one-two punch. Kobe and Gasol are a great example. You need great defenders at the 2 and the 5 to have a chance at holding them down. Compare that to the one-two punch of Rose and Gordon in Chicago. Defensive success there only requires good backcourt or perimeter defense, not BOTH perimeter and paint defense.

I've also heard that it takes one sure fire hall of famer to win it all, but with the help of a 2nd ballot guy as well. Lately, it sure seems each championship team has at least two. Tim Duncan is sure fire, while Parker or Ginobli might be considered. Kevin Garnet is sure fire, and Ray Allen or Paul Pierce might be considered. Kobe is sure fire, Gasol might be considered. Every time Shaq has won it, he's had a sure fire hall of famer with him. Kobe and Wade.

Anyway, I think the grading method works pretty well for this. LeBron is an A scorer, and he has several B scorers on his team, but they didn't show up consistently enough to win. Which is why they're B scorers, of course. I don't know the numbers, but I'd say Rashard and Hedo are B scorers, both bordering on A scorers, who show up with their best game 6 games out of 7. And the one game they don't show up, it's because their shot isn't falling, not because they didn't give effort.

Now I'm rambling.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Joe I understood you are just looking at offense. My mentioning of defense beyond that was just my choice, an extension, an idea that was rattling around in my head and this seemed a decent place to put it and certainly not a criticism as I am well aware you see the full picture.

Joe
Joe 5pts

@Kev

No, I didn't really discuss defense. It's an obvious conclusion that defense is half of the equation here, and of course we need to have two way players, but when you are the worst offensive team in the league in so many categories, but just a bit below average defensively, I think the offense is a good place to start.

Kev
Kev 5pts

Unless I looked over it - the article didn't really discuss defense - We didn'r have much last year (outside of Thabo, Weaver, and maybe Collison) - that needs to be addressed as well . . .

Crow
Crow 5pts

But getting to 7 is very tough.
The Cavs and a healthly Celtics team were 7-8s. They and the finalists were probably the only ones.

Crow
Crow 5pts

To get to 7 you need a minimum of 2 2-way strong players, not just grade A scorers.

Crow
Crow 5pts

ah, should be... "with" probably no points for being above average inside

Crow
Crow 5pts

With a starting lineup of Westbrook-Sefolosha-Durant-Green-Kristic late last season I'd score that at 2 (Durant's offense and I guess Thabo's D) without probably no points for being above average inside. Average here means no points. There probably should be negatives for being below average but this is intend to be a simple model. To get to 5 with group you'd have to add 3 of the following of the best candidates going to above average- Westbrook offense or defense, Green's offense, Kristic's defense or maybe offense. To get to 7 you'd have to achieve them all or achieve from less likely places or change players.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Points per shot isn't the ideal measure in my mind because points off free-throws add to the top part of the calculation but not the bottom and the rate with which players get the line varies. Possession used at the free throw should be counted. I'd use TS%.

I still maintain fit / lineup synergy matters a lot...
but
if you look at players as just individual sub-units that hopefully contribute to a productive lineup I'd argue that you need 2 of your 3 starting perimeter players to be good (i.e. above average for a starter) offensive players (by offensive adjusted, or PER or the eye or whatever) and 2 of the 3 to be good defensive players (in any combination) and on the inside at least one of them good on offense but probably both good on defense. Interior defensive players I'd argue contribute more to good or bad defense because of geography- they have their responsibility and have to clean up or fail to clean-up after the perimeter players. You can vary a bit from that but what I describe is what I consider the manageable ideal. If you got 1 point each for achieving these grades there would be a possible perfect score of 10 but what I described would pull a 7. I'd rate the Lakers and Magic at about 6-7. 5-6 your team could cause trouble in the playoffs and the contenders tend to fit that level. 4 or less you aren't there yet.

Ty
Ty 5pts

@Vega

I think Presti should just tell us who he wants!!! Stop making us suffer and come up with all these different possibilities we could make! The draft should be tomorrow.

Vega
Vega 5pts

@dj
Ack. Didn't mean to make that previous post.

I was going to say that James Harden is the kind of player that we need. He's a good enough scorer that the other team has to pay attention to him, thus freeing up Uncle Jeff, KD, and Russ to do their thing, and he can also distribute it to the aforementioned other dudes.

Vega
Vega 5pts

@dj

dj
dj 5pts

Just draft James Harden.

Sammy
Sammy 5pts

This analysis seems way too reductive. It's of a kin with the oft heard maxim that you can't win a championship without two superstars. Here's what you need to win championships:

* Offensive efficiency (maintain high PPP, don't turn the ball over, control the clock wisely)
* Defense (force stops, get back in transition, lock down the perimeter)
* Mettle and motor (control the glass, fight for loose balls, never fall asleep at either end, rise to the situation)
* Luck

Trying to derive a winning formula based on the argument that you need 2 type A players or one type A and 2 type Bs seems to me like a fools errand. Of course you want to target players that will score at high efficiency. You also want players that do those other things, and the more of them you acquire, the better positioned your team will be.

Trackbacks

  1. How to contend pt.2 | Daily Thunder.com - Where Thunder Happens says:
    June 7, 2009 at 8:54 am

    [...] Part 1 is here. [...]

Back to Top

Headlines

  • Perk donates $25,000 to help build shelters in schools
  • Report: Mo Cheeks to interview with the Pistons
  • Thunder land the 12th pick in the 2013 draft
  • Thunder donate $1 million to aid with disaster relief
  • Kevin Durant donates $1 million to disaster relief
  • Serge Ibaka named first team All-Defense
  • Report: KD reaches settlement in ‘Durantula’ lawsuit
Daily Thunder
  • Home
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Contact

Copyright © 2008-2012 DailyThunder.com
Designed by iThemes Creative & Hosted by Site5