With the first edition of the big board, Joe and I reserved the right to update and revise our opinion after the pre-draft combine results came in. And good thing we did because there was some fairly big information to come from it. Players being short, being medically red flagged or players not testing at all. There was definitely enough info in some situations to revise and re-evaluate. Remember, this is NOT a mock draft. It’s the top players according to us, with an eye towards the Thunder’s needs. Since OKC picks third, a lot of these guys will be irrelevant, but there’s always the possibility to move down or move up from No. 25 as well.
(In parenthesis is what the player was ranked in our first big board. Players 13-30 will be up tomorrow. Get excited.)
1. Blake Griffin (1) – 6′10″/ F/ Oklahoma (highlights)
Royce: Sigh… if only. If only.
2. Ricky Rubio (2) – 6′3″/ G/ DKV Joventut (highlights)
3. James Harden (3) – 6′5″/ G/ Arizona State (highlights)
Royce: I’m actually extremely close to bumping Harden to the two slot. I just think he fits with this team like Ace Ventura in parking spots. His game compliments every other Thunder starter and he would form a nice two-guard combo with Thabo Sefolosha. Really the only reason Rubio remains above Harden is the hype. I just can’t ignore it, even though I’m desperately trying.
4. Stephen Curry (5) – 6′3″ / G/ Davidson (highlights)
Royce: I’m on the wagon. I’m totally convinced he’s going to be a solid NBA player. I don’t know if he’ll dominate or if he’ll score 20 a game, but he’s going to be good. He’s one of those guys that you can just kind of sense it. He’s got an entirely polished game, is well-spoken, has great basketball lines and any question about athleticism was answered at the pre-draft combine. He’s a legit 6’3, moves extremely well side-to-side, can leap better than we thought and handles the ball extremely well. Honestly at this point, since he can play two spots, I’m beginning to wonder if he’s more of a Presti guy than Harden.
Joe: We agreed that Curry needed to be higher than we had him on our original big board. I was impressed with his numbers at the combine. He same max vertical leap as Blake Griffin and he racked the bench 10 times and he was a legitimate 6’3 1/4 in shoes.
5. Hasheem Thabeet (6) – 7′2″/ C/ Connecticut (highlights)
Royce: Thabeet sort of moved up by default. Obviously he didn’t do anything for himself at the combine because all he did was get measured, but at the same time he didn’t really hurt himself. Except for the fact that he raised a ton of questions by skipping out. The thing about Thabeet is that if he skips past OKC and Washington, he could fall out of the lottery. Seriously, he really could. The closer we get, the more sense I get that Hasheem Thabeet will not have his name called with the third pick.
6. Jordan Hill (8) – 6′10″/ F/ Arizona (highlights)
Royce: Hill is a lot like Thabeet – he kind of moved up because others fell. He measured a legit 6’10 and had solid numbers at the combine. And seeing as there’s really only one or two top 10 big men, he sort of fits in here. I don’t think he’s on Sam Presti’s radar in the slightest, unless he plans on moving down or maybe making a move to grab him along with someone at three. Now that I would be cool with.
Joe: Hill moved up to six here as a consensus, simply because he is a legitimate 6’10″, and is a good rebounder. In a draft so lacking in big men, Hill is one of the ones to benefit.
7. DeMar DeRozan (10) – 6′7″/ G/ Southern California (highlights)
Royce: It’s hard to argue against the type of talent he has. I’m more of a “What have you got right now” kind of person, but he definitely has the potential to get better. But again, I prefer guys like Harden and Curry that don’t need a whole lot of work to fit into a system. He’s clearly the third best two-guard in this draft, but I guess could wind up being the best. But that’s a big risk to take if you’re picking in the top five.
Joe: Even though his reputed all world athleticism took a hit at the combine, DeRozan is still a good mix of size and skill and potential in a weak draft.
8. Brandon Jennings (7) – 6′1″/ G/ Lottomatica Roma (highlights)
9. DeJuan Blair (9) – 6′7″/ F/ Pittsburgh (highlights)
Royce: It’s a little hard to know what to think about all these medical concerns with Blair. On one hand, his stock is soaring because he’s dropped a bunch of weight and showed off much better than expected athleticism at the combine. But on the other, he’s got potentially devastating knee issues. So for those reasons, we’re balancing it out and leaving him right where we had him.
10. Jonny Flynn (10) – 6′0″/ G/ Syracuse (highlights)
11. Tyreke Evans (NR) – 6’6″/ G/ Memphis (highlights)
Royce: Evans is the only guy to jump into the top 12. He narrowly edged Jrue Holliday and Eric Maynor, but Joe and I both liked his combination of size and speed. He really can get to the rim with ease. And again, as a guy that can play the point and off the ball as well, he seems like a guy Presti would like. But he’s definitely not an immediate impact guy. He’s going to need time to develop and whatever fanbase that gets him will have to be patient.
Joe: I don’t really see Evans being a consistent starter in the NBA. He has a unique skill set for his size, but I don’t think he’s a point guard, and he doesn’t shoot well enough at this point in his development to warrant high lottery. He seems a project in the mold of Javaris Crittenton.
12. Ty Lawson (4) – 6′0″/ G/ North Carolina (highlights)
Royce: With the toe issue still not totally resolved and less than impressive combine numbers, Lawson has taken the biggest hit on our board. I still think he’s going to be a solid NBA point guard and I still really like him. He was the top assist-to-turn player in college last year for a reason. But he doesn’t get to the rim as well as Jonny Flynn and with injury questions, you’d be taking a bit of a risk taking him in the top 10.
Joe: I personally love Lawson, but he seems to be free falling. He was found to be the shortest player in the draft (tied) with the shortest reach, and he has been medically red flagged. Still, he is pretty quick and he racked the bench pretty good for a little guy. I think he can be a decent starter in the NBA.
Alright J.G., thanks.
I gave draftexpress a bit to much trust to be up to date.
And there is still time.
But there have been less top name 1 on 1s than I'd expect by this time.
@Royce
Like Hefner and Hefner pkwy... Where the Lighthouse is...
@Keith
Haha! Great find.
Reminds me of:
"I'm on the corner of first and first. How can the same street intersect with itself? I must be at the nexus of the universe!"
Wow, I was just looking through draft stuff and thinking about the "Next" article and came across something crazy. First, Jordan Hill is considered similar to Ronny Turiaf. That's cool, he's the next Ronny Turiaf. Then I go down and see Gani Lawal. In similarities, it lists none other than Jordan Hill. Gani Lawal is the next Jordan Hill everybody. We gone so crazy with this thing that we are using people in the SAME DRAFT CLASS to compare their NBA futures. Just wow!
@Crow
Harden has already worked out for Sacramento and will be working out for Memphis and OKC next week.
And BJ Mullens and Dejuan Blair have already worked out with the Thunder in private workouts (they were here Friday, June 5th).
Seems draftexpress needs to update their system, pronto.
@Doug
Harden's 6'5. Nice to see your paying attention though.
And, gee, let me think, you know I seem to remember a 6'5 SG being picked third overall fairly recently who turned out to be pretty freakin' good. Oh, that's right, it was 12 months ago.
I mean...Wow.
Based on what draftexpress is showing Rubio and Thabeet and Harden have worked out for nobody and time is slipping away. Curry may have been seen in a group workout but hasn't had an one on one with the Thunder. Neither has Hill, Evans, Flynn, Holiday, Jennings, Henderson, Blair or Johnson, Lawson, Mullins, Clark, Hansbrough, Maynor, Teague, Young, Lawal, Budinger, etc. at least yet and known to draftexpress. DeRozan and T Williams have. I assume some to many of the above list were seen in group workouts. Private Workouts are not essential but were and probably still would be pretty normal. There is still time for some but Presti might have decided to leave the league guessing.
@Doug
Thabeet...haha
Please make a logical reason for your statement.
When Thabeet went up against a solid center, how did he play?
I keep rereading your comment and it just gets dumber each time.
Due to Rubio being the #2 on the big board he would take Rubio if available.
@Pennington
I don't want Boozer anywhere near our team...
Personally I'm dropping Thabeet out of the top #10. Time will prove it. He gets to camp in the paint in college and he won't get to in the pros. Which is exactly why he would show his speed at the combine. (He's a big slow stiff)
@Doug
Hmm... I don't really see your point here. I, among many, many people have OKC taking James Harden. And most of those people are far smarter than I.
Heck, Ian Thompson (who I believe gets paid by Sports Illustrated) has OKC taking James Harden. And also, maybe you missed it - Ricky Rubio is still ranked second in our big board, meaning that if he were available at three, that's who I would take.
I hope you do not get paid for writing this. Are you serious. A 6'4 two guard with the three pick overall?? Or the circus act Curry??? I can see your new at this. I hope as a Kings fan and/or Wizard fan, that OKC is dumb enough to let either Rubio or Thabeet fall to 4 or 5
The one position the Grizzlies have nailed down is SG with Mayo. They may have made some really dumb front office decisions in the past, but surely they are not that incompetent. They will pick Rubio and trade him, or take Thabeet, or wildest possibility, take Hill. Locals with pitch forks and torches will storm their headquarters if they pick a shooting guard.
if Griffin and Harden are gone by the third pick, we should pick rubio and trade him for Curry + assets. that works for me
If Hasheem does drop out of the lotto we might be able to move up from 25 and get him
@Joe
That's absolutely true.
If we were picking fifth of sixth, I'd be more open to Thabeet. But not third. He's not worth it there.
Royce :
Like I said, James Harden is the choice, UNLESS Memphis takes Thabeet and then you’re picking between Rubio or Harden.
Or if he's off the board and wearing a Memphis hat shaking Stern's hand...I'm a bit afraid of that one actually.
I like Rubio, but not for our team alongside Westbrook.
I don't like Thabeet that high.
So if Griffin and Harden are off the board at three...I would be sad.
@Keith
You don't have to sell me on picking Harden before Curry, believe me. In fact, I've gotten into some debates on here with just how much I think Harden is the best shooting guard and option for the Thunder. But to say that Curry will be worse at defense than BEN GORDON is just borderline ridiculous, since "defense" and "Ben Gordon" should never be seen in the same sentence. Curry also has a quicker release, so he can very much so play either spot.
Also, if you don't think RW is the PG of the future, like you said, and I guess I'm speaking for Kev here, wouldn't you need a "true pg" to play at the point and move RW to the sg role?
I'll disagree with you that the Cavs' backcourt was exposed in the Orlando game, other than the fact that they couldn't hit wide open shots. It was the front court that the Magic exposed. West and Williams we're not overmatched at all in the series, the entire Cavs defensive and offensive schemes were.
Also, it's not harder for a point guard to foul out in college (see: Eaton, Byron). If only it was, OSU would have had a much better record the last 4 years.
All that being said, Kev is the Curry fan. Not me. So you'll have to take it up with him since I agree with pretty much everything else you said. :)
I'm not sold that RW can defend the 2.
However, the 2 is the one position that is usually asked to score the most on the team. No coach asks their one guy to stop Kobe or Wade or Arenas or whoever. If a team really needs to shut a 2 guard down, they'll double, and make the offense move the ball to another option.
With that in mind, I'd say RW or Curry or Harden can play well enough to double and then rotate.
Maybe you don't play that way one game at a time, but in a 7 game series, most teams make that kind of adjustment.
Like I said, James Harden is the choice, UNLESS Memphis takes Thabeet and then you're picking between Rubio or Harden.
tip off.
p.s. I woud love to see Ibaka in Oklahoma in the fall
@Keith
I feel like if we take Harden, we start him and all is well with the world. I would however like to see us take Curry, and play he and Jeff Green off the bench for 20-25 minutes a game. I feel like we shouldn't start them,(Green being the exception if we can't find a 4), but we should give them a lot of minutes to be a spark off the bench. If our first unit is Westbrook, Sefolosha, Durant, Boozer, and Kristic. We sub in Curry at 1 or 2, Weaver at 1 or 2, Green at 3 or 4, Collison at 4 or 5, White at 4 or 5, and Gortat at 5. Is it just me, or does that give us a defense stopper at 1, and 2, a superstar at 3, an All-star at 4, and a decent big at the 5? Not to mention the scoring coming off the bench from Green and Curry, the energy of Collison, and the defensive and rebounding presence of Gortat. I cannot wait for top off.
@J.G.
Can we agree that the Cavaliers are not a team that anyone since the showtime Lakers can compare themselves to? And for one simple reason, Lebron. The Cavs excelled with two combo guards because Lebron is the PG of that offense. And remember, both of those combo guards were exposed badly against Orlando.
Here's the thing with Curry for me. If you see him as a two, you basically are saying to want Ben Gordon. That's fine, but our backcourt will be abused on the defensive end. Curry's combine told me he was more athletic than I thought, which actually makes his lack of defense in college even more startling. I realize that he was never asked, and the team certainly couldn't afford him in foul trouble, but A) it's a lot harder for a PG to foul out in college and B) he looked slow on the court his whole career. Perhaps the question should be, if he's as fast and quick as the combine says, why did it never translate to his game?
If you see him as a PG, I guess I don't really see the need. I'm down on Westbrook as a PG because he doesn't make his teammates better. For all Curry's accomplishments, it has always been him vs. the other team. When that team won it was because Curry put up 40 points, not because he threw down 15 assists. This team doesn't need another player who needs to score in order to make an impact. Call me crazy if you want, but I think Curry is that kind of player.
Harden works off the ball because the threat of him when Westbrook has the ball is real, and he has been a hard working defender (on top of main option) both years in college. If he's not shooting, he can focus on defending. Rubio, despite not being much of a threat from outside, will absolutely find his teammates and get them open shots. Also, he has fantastic hands and savvy on defense (like a 6'4" Chris Paul).
@Bob
Everyone here knows I'm more of a Harden fan than Curry, but I think you're reaching with saying that Curry has "short" wingspan and standing reach for a 2 guard.
First, Curry's standing reach is only two inches shorter than Ben Gordon's. Now his wingspan is 5-6 inches shorter than most 2 guards, but he's lateral agility and sprint speed would definitely make up that difference. After all, you play defense with your feet first, arms second.
Now it's clear that Curry would be better suited as a scoring point guard in the NBA, but last time I checked the Cavs did pretty well with two combo guards in their back court.
And regarding "maximizing potential" on defense. If RW can lock down a 1 and a 2, and you have a combo guard who can only defend a 1, then you have RW lock down the 2. It's that simple.
@Dustin
I saw that. That was great.
Per Rick Reilly
"I saw Hasheem Thabeet, the skinny, ever-smiling 7-3 UConn center who figures to go in the top five of the coming NBA draft. I asked him what he thought of the lottery.
"Oh, I was SOOOO happy!" he beamed. "I see that the Los Angeles Clippers win the first pick!"
Why did this make you happy, 'Sheem?
"Because I know this means I do not have to play for them!"
Kid's a quick learner.
Gordon has a great wingspan, not the same body type at all.
Like I just said you don't play with the top of your head, wingspan and standing reach are the numbers to look at IMO, and these numbers are not good.
@Bob
I feel like if Ben Gordon can score at 6'3, so can Steph Curry. And the thing about Curry is he can play both positions, which is something Presti likes.
I'm not that high on Curry.
His size is decent but you don't play basketball with the top of your head... Because of his short arms I have a lot of troubles to see him as a 2 in the NBA, especially on defense.
Sure Westbrook could defend SGs full time but that is not maximizing his potential.