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Eddie Sefko of the Dallas Morning News on the draft’s swingmen: “Either way, it may well describe James Harden, the Arizona State shooting guard who may or may not be the second player chosen in Thursday night’s NBA draft. He most certainly is in the conversation when it comes to figuring out who goes directly after Blake Griffin. “He’s a ready-made, step-in NBA contributor,” Mavericks president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson said. And there just aren’t many of those in this draft. In fact, Harden may be the only one at the swing positions – shooting guard and small forward.”
Taylor Griffin was “drafted” to play with the Harlem Globetrotters. I really have no idea what that means or if he’s actually a Globetrotter now, but that’s what happened: “The world-famous Harlem Globetrotters today selected University of Oklahoma senior forward Taylor Griffin as the top pick in the team’s third annual player draft, just days before his younger brother, and Sooners teammate, Blake Griffin is expected to become the number one overall selection of the upcoming NBA Draft on June 25.”
NBA.com has put together a consensus mock draft using all of the most reputable sites: OKC is taking either Hasheem Thabeet or Ricky Rubio (tie). James Harden goes fifth the Washington.
Scott Howard-Cooper with info on the Grizzlies situation: “The growing league-wide sentiment is that the Grizzlies won’t select Rubio, but by their own choice rather than being scared off. Adding size is simply more pressing and Conley still has promise. Trading out of the spot is possible. If not, Connecticut center Hasheem Thabeet is the logical choice. “That’s who they’re taking,” a rival personnel boss said. “The rest is smoke. Bet on it.”
It really sounds like the Grizzlies are taking Thabeet: “The Thunder weren’t the only team to meet with Thabeet in LA this weekend. The Grizzlies, after being snubbed by Thabeet in their workout, flew to LA and met with him for three hours. Sources close to both Thabeet and the Grizzlies expect Memphis to take him at No. 2. If they don’t, chances are they have a trade in the works.”
Rubio worked out for the Kings: “Ricky Rubio’s second Sacramento visit was much like his first, a covert operation that was seen as mysterious and methodical by some, maddening and manipulative by others. But there was one significant difference this time around: he worked out…While the session remained secret at the request of his representatives, he told The Bee it was a necessary exercise that hardly showcased his game. ‘It’s difficult to show them what I have to do on the court, because there are no teammates and nobody there,’ Rubio said at the Sacramento airport just before leaving town. ‘I can’t show them what I do on the court. This workout is not my style. I need my teammates around me to play basketball. I was alone.’”
Matt Moore of Hardwood Paroxysm on Rubio and the Grizz: “Rubio has the potential to be a game-changer (so to speak) for certain teams. New York. Minnesota. Even the Clippers though Dunleavy will give up Griffin over his cold, dead body. Or if you offer a bloated contract with little to no value, apparently, since that’s been all their other moves. Rubio could be a true facillitator for the Wizards, a franchise player for the Kings, the next evolution for the Warriors, or the Nash Toronto wants but can’t have. But to Memphis? He’s a pain the ass that may decide to play chicken with them; a player that won’t sell as many tickets as other players can (we’ve seen the way Memphis gets attached to awkward looking Spanish dudes), doesn’t provide them an inside scorer, makes their investment in Mike Conley seem completely vapid, and generally is a terrible fit.”
The Clippers aren’t budging: “The Clippers remain intent on keeping the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft, and they’re expected to make Oklahoma’s Blake Griffin the top selection. “The pick’s not going anywhere,” assistant general manager Neil Olshey said yesterday. Coach and general manager Mike Dunleavy said he hasn’t spoken to anyone seriously about trading the pick in more than two weeks. He and Olshey haven’t ruled out the possibility of acquiring another pick on or before Thursday’s draft.”
The Thunder will work out five players today: “Thunder just announced a five-player workout for today that includes Arizona’s Chase Budinger, Memphis’ Antonio Anderson, Temple’s Dionte Christmas, LSU’s Garrett Temple and Villanova’s Dwyane Anderson. It’s the second workout for Christmas, which is interesting because the Thunder doesn’t currently have a second-round pick and the No. 25 is considered way too high to draft him. I did have Christmas as a potential sleeper, though. Maybe the Thunder would like to trade into the second round and grab him, or even do a post-draft trade similar to the Kyle Weaver acquisition and bring him in.”
The Baseline’s mock: “Oklahoma City Thunder: Hasheem Thabeet. If things worked out so Thabeet slipped to No. 3 and the Thunder weren’t moving up to No. 2 to get Rubio, he’d be a great pickup, giving them a much needed interior presence.”
Empty the Bench looks at players that will be better than expected and players that will be worse. Worse – Hasheem Thabeet: ”For someone who is so big (7-3, 265) and has such good numbers, he sure didn’t seem to show up very often versus good teams. Against Pitt, Michigan State, Gonzaga, Georgetown, and Villanova, Thabeet averaged 9.8 points and 5.8 rebounds. Huh? Bring on Buffalo, Seton Hall, Western Carolina, or Chattanooga, though, and it’s back to domination. There’s no doubt he’ll get his blocks at the next level, but Thabeet gets tired too quickly when challenged, disappears for huge chunks of games, and his offensive repertoire makes Dwight Howard look like Hakeem Olajuwon.”
Blake Griffin is the NCAA 2010 cover boy: “Yeah, the market out there is great. And I’ve already been able to partner with a lot of great companies. You know, partnering with EA Sports and being on the cover of NCAA 10 is very exciting. And to be on the list of guys who have been on the cover before me is exciting. And I definitely think LA will help with that and the marketing standpoint.”
FanHouse previews the draft for teams in the Northwest Division: “There are some who believe the Thunder are onto something big here, with three-fifths of their starting lineup in place for the foreseeable future: Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant and Jeff Green. All that leaves is center and shooting guard, and since shooting guard is considered one of the easier positions to fill, there’s a lot to like about Hasheem Thabeet here.”
Draft Express does the same: “The Thunder’s most significant need lies in the post, where the previous regime drafted unsuccessfully in the past. They are due for an upgrade at either the power forward or center positions. With the third pick in the draft, they can take their pick of this year’s top, draft-eligible big men, particularly a more defensively oriented player. They may opt to shore up their backcourt somewhat, though, adding another playmaker and perimeter shooter who is willing to play unselfishly within the team’s existing pieces. With their late first round pick, they can find another solid player to bring off of their bench and deepen their frontcourt rotation.”
UPDATE: Chad Ford reports a major trade happening with Richard Jefferson going to San Antonio for Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto and Kurt Thomas.
If it is Rubio-Westbrook at least it is two above average size guys. That is the way to do it.
Lots of the 2 small PG lineups last a year then you look at the +/- and there are generally blah to terrible and eventually the coach or the GM or the stat guy quietly reduces it or phases it out. New Orleans gave up on it. Denver gave up on it. Detroit gave up on it. It never worked in Memphis.
The two PGs with size (and some defense) together has worked in Cleveland. For awhile in Washington before Arenas got hurt and Daniels became a shadow. J-Williams -Wade won a title. Blake-Roy is sorta of that even if you don't think of it way initially. Rose-Hinrich really ought to be milked heavy, far heavier than it has. Kidd-Terry,anybody and M Daniels in Indiana count too to me.
If they go Rubio-Westbrook- and they get along- then a lob to the rim that Westbrook cuts or backcuts to go get should be an option off of almost any play.
@J.G.
Oh, sorry I forgot to answer your question. I'm intrigued by Rubio and have been warming to the idea of him and RW in the same backcourt...but I'd say in a perfect world, if RW is the point guard of the future, I think you trade down from #3 and get Harden along with some assets, who I'm very high on and have been for awhile.
But it's just so up in the air, who knows? You know?
@Dustin
Wow, I definitely didn't see Simmons warming to the idea of Rubio and Westbrook in the same backcourt. Great heads up.
Simmons and Ford have actually switched me over to the Rubio camp -- they were very much pro-Rubio in general at #3.
Ford's point (which is too simple and smart for me to have come up with on my own) is that when you have Rubio, Westbrook, KD, and Green -- basically 4 of the best 15 or so players to have come out in the last three years -- you let the on-court issues about positions and the like work themselves out. Simmons' point was that he would watch every single game if those 4 guys were on the same team. Great points, I'm sold. Rubio at 3!
@Dustin
Nice find. Thanks.
New BS report with Chad Ford talking about the draft, trades, etc.
Starts talking about the Thunder @ 21 minutes or so.
Simmons loves the idea of Rubio and Westbrook in the backcourt together.
I was looking on HoopsHype and found this comment in a blip from ESPN.com talking about the Bucks-Spurs trade:
"I understand why they did that. They have a few years left of Tim Duncan’s career, and it’s going to take a lot of improvement to win the West – the Lakers are far better at this point, and new threats like the Nuggets, Blazers and Thunder are entering the scene."
This may just be "okie voodoo" but did anyone else notice that the picture of KD, Westbrook and Green next to Trammel's article was from the OU vs DAVIDSON game??? Davidson where Stephen CURRY plays!?! Is Barry trying to tell us something?
*Or perhaps I am spending way, WAY too much time looking for hidden meanings and astral signs!
@ J.G.
Thanks for all the great information.
I forget who would you like the Thunder to draft?
Okay, crunched numbers and as of right now, with the cost of the third pick, the 25th pick and the bumps in salaries, the Oklahoma City Thunder's salary for next year, without adding any other players, will be $50 million dollars.
The projected salary cap for next year is $57.3 million.
That's only $7.3 million in cap space, not the $10 million or $14-20 million everyone seems to think we'll have. Tack on the Ibaka possibility at atleast $1.25 million a year and a potential free agent acquisition and...well, um, yeah.
@Keith
The third pick makes something like $3.9 million dollars guaranteed (basically $4 mil off of our cap space next year).
Oh yeah, Durant, Green, Krstic, Watson, Westbrook, DJ White, Chucky Atkins and DEFINITELY Thabo (at just over $800,000) all get bumps in their salaries next year, adding up to around an extra $2.725 million dollars off our cap.
Toss in the $800,000 that the 25th pick would make and that's about $7.5 to $8 million extra dollars that we'll see next year off our cap.
@Keith
Okay, first off, I'm totally with you and Clark on this whole cap space thing, but that site is an inaccurate representation of the Thunder's salaries because they inked Livingston to a longer deal through 2009-2010 for a little under $1 million over the next two years. Why that is important is because, and here's what I don't think most people are factoring in, the salary cap WILL BE LOWER next year.
Secondly, factor in the cost of a guaranteed top 3 pick, a 25th pick, the potential of Serge Ibaka coming over into the roster and I just don't think that $14 million will hold up, looking more and more like $8-9 until the summer of 2010.
I guess I'm just more pessimistic than others regarding cap space or I just try to find every little thing that could lower it.
I should clarify that teams are only responsible for contracts that they buy out or waive. They obviously aren't responsible for contracts that are traded.
I heard rumors of Josh Smith, everyone on the Knicks, Gerald Wallace, Antwan Jamison, Shaq, and Tracy McGrady also.
@J.G.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/oklahoma_city.htm
According to that we have roughly 41 million committed to players next year. That means on July 1st, we will have somewhere between 14 and 20 million in cap space. The issue is that we are still paying for people we don't have. We bought out Joe Smith's 4.8 million, but it still counts against the cap. We waived Donyell Marshall and his 6 million, but were still on the hook for his salary this year. In the NBA, every contract is guaranteed, so teams are responsible for their contracts even if they get rid of the player.
@Clark Matthews
Looking back, I didn't do as good a job as I could have explaining the cap space scenario so I do appreciate you pointing that out since it may have caused confusion.
@Royce
Don't forget Chris Kaman, too.
Or in other words, 3-4 of the Clippers starting five. :)
@Clark Matthews
I know, but my point is that the Thunder will never be under the cap enough for an excess of $10 million dollars to work in a trade like that. The Denver/Clippers example is a perfect one to use because it was so unbelievably preposterous.
Also, the Thunder have a -$7.5 million worth of cap space right now, and with Malik's, Swift's and Mason's expiring contracts only equaling around $15 mil, even if you toss in Johan Petro's trade exception, the Thunder still don't have that $10 million extra dollars to eat that cap space come July without sending someone else to the Bucks with a significant contract...unless of course they wanted to completely handcuff themselves for the next 3 years.
If a team has $15 million dollars in cap space just hanging around, their GM is not doing his job.
@Dustin
Vince Carter I believe. Tyson Chandler was and probably still is. Baron Davis, Marcus Camby and Zach Randolph, though those three may not entirely be financial reasons.
I'm trying to think of more.
What other players are on the block for financial reasons only?
@J.G. That's only if both teams are over the cap. Last year, the Clippers were under the cap and received Marcus Camby's $10MM contract and sent out nothing. In this case, Denver's outgoing salary was infinity more than the incoming salary.
@daniel
I agree. That may have been Tramel's best column ever.
@Clark Matthews
Again, see the, an outgoing salary can not be more than 125% + $100,000 more than an incoming salary(s) part of the NBA's Trade Restrictions.
Even if the Thunder have $100 million in extra cap space, the trade will not be allowed.
@Dustin I don't think it would take the #3 pick to make that deal happen with Milwaukee trying to shed contracts.
@J.G. The Thunder have waaaaay more than $10MM of extra cap space to eat a contract if they wait until July to make a deal.
Vega :What the heck are the Bucks doing? RJ is worth way more than what they got for him.
@Vega In this environment, where CFO's are calling the shots more than the GMs, that's a good deal for Milwaukee. They save a ton of money. Of course, they'll probably lose a ton of money when their fans revolt.
Tramel sez don't break up the core:
http://www.newsok.com/tramel-thunder-shouldnt-break-up-jeff-green-russell-westbrook-and-kevin-durant/article/3380029
Amen. Could not agree more.
@Keith
The trade doesn't even come close to equaling out as the Thunder don't happen to have $10 million dollars of extra cap space to eat that contract. Toss in the fact that the Thunder would be significantly over the cap and the incoming salary of Redd would be greater than 125% plus $100,000 of their outgoing salaries, and this trade could only be used if the Thunder cut $7,930,000 dollars off of the incoming trade to make it viable (either by adding more outgoing players or working with a third team).
@Dustin
Oh, and you need to add about $9 million dollars to what OKC sends to Milwaukee since Michael Redd is owed about $16 million a year over the next three years (again, you really want a three-year, $48 million dollar contract for a 30 year old SG who just add major, major knee surgery?).
So you'd have to send Watson's expiring contract, Atkins' expiring contract and Nick Collison just to have the trade workout salary wise. Picks don't count in the equation of salary dollars coming close to equaling out and a trade can only be somewhat unequal if one of the teams can eat the added cap space.
@Dustin
Because we have so much cap space, money in doesn't have to equal money out. We simply can't send the Bucks more than we take back (since they do not have the cap space we do. So yes, your trade does meet the requirements of a trade.
The question, as always, is do both teams accept this trade? Is Redd worth the third and 25th picks (Ray Allen was only worth a 5th pick)? And do the Bucks feel there is a player that can replace Redd, and to a lesser degree Jefferson, available at number 3? The Bucks are hard to peg. They would have been a playoff team, if healthy, last year. But now they traded Jefferson and want to resign Sessions and Villanueva. Is that a playoff team? If they feel they have any chance to win-now, they don't trade their best player. If they are moving into a rebuilding/reloading stage, Redd will be on the block.
@Dustin
I think that's one of the worst ideas in the history of time. Michael Redd is entering the twilight of his career and James Harden is a shooter like Redd, except he's not coming off a major knee reconstruction, has great court vision, doesn't just shoot and is a capable defender with great wingspan.
To quote Billy Madison, "I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
What does everyone think of the possibility of the Thunder trading #3 pick, the # 25 pick, and Watson's expiring contract for Redd.
That would give us a lineup of
1 Westbrook/Livingston
2 Redd/Thabo/Weaver
3 Durant/Thabo/Weaver
4 Green/DJ White
5 Kristic/Collison
Does that meet the requirements of a trade (money out has to be equal to money in)?
List of Kevin Durant nicknames:
1. KD
2. KSmooth
3. Okra
Okra???
[last one supplied by mamma durant]
@DSMok1
Wow, where to start...
Well first off, Richard Jefferson's career rebounding rate is 5.3, and he drops 3 assists a game. Last year he was 9th in rebounds, 8th in assists, 9th in steals and 10th in blocks for SF's who played at least 35 minutes a game.
So I'd say, for a SF, that's more than proof that he "does other stuff." Tack on the fact that he hasn't missed more than one game per year on average over the last 7 years and I dare you to find any player not named Kobe Bryant who can posts those points, rebounds and assists without missing more than a game over the last 7 years.
And your comment about him "not shooting a reasonable percentage" is just flat out wrong. His career FG% is 46.9%, and he's improved his three point percentage every year he's been in the league (he shot 39.7% last year from three). Did you mean his 80.5% free throw shooting last year?
While we're on stats. Jefferson is #9 in the NBA for SF's on Estimated Wins Added behind the likes of Lebron James, Kevin Durant and Carmelo Anthony.
Is Jefferson overpaid? Absolutely. Is he more of a scoring forward than anything else? Definitely.
Overrated? Maybe by a hair. But way overrated is simply inaccurate. And as a fourth option for the Spurs...he will be very, very effective.
@DSMok1
RJ is a major upgrade over Michael Finley. That is definite.
"The reason Jefferson keeps getting dealt is he is a productive wing player at a position that a lot of teams have issues with in terms of scoring and overall productivity. This gives the Spurs the slashing/wing threat that Parker and Duncan need to give them more space and creates a double-edged sword scenario for defense when both Jefferson and Ginobli are on the floor together. I’m still surprised Portland balked at the idea of adding a veteran like Jefferson since they sorely lack a SF."
Jefferson keeps being dealt because he is ridiculously overrated. He scores but does little else of note... and doesn't even shoot a reasonable percentage... By the efficiency metric Wins Produced, he isn't even in the top 15 of the SF's.
He is way, way overrated. There is a reason the teams he is on loses! He will only help the Spurs if they can make sure to keep him a part, a role player. If he is on equal with the other 3, they will falter. He just doesn't do useful things!
The Bucks should try to move Redd. I'd call up Washington and offer them Redd for the fifth pick and parts.
Mrs. Daily Thunder :
UPDATE: Royce Young’s Rumble Prize Pack has just arrived. More details later.
Autographed photo of Chucky Atkins?
Malik Rose decoder ring?
Year supply of diet pepsi?
Cmon, enquiring minds want to know!
If the Bucks can't re-sign Sessions and Villanueva, they're rotation will look something like this:
PG: Ridnour
SG: Redd (If he doesn't get dealt too.)
SF: Mbah a Moute
PF: Ilyasova
C: Bogut
6: Draft pick
7: Bell
8: Alexander
9: Stoudimire
10: Gadzuric
Doesn't look like my second favorite team will make the playoffs this year.
Repost from last blog (didn't see the new one):
“I think you are missing the boat on Thabeet. He was by far the most dominant defensive player in the nation last year. Not sure how you could characterize his defense as “soft” in any way.”
Does anyone realize that Connecticut’s whole defense is predicated on getting blocks? That they sacrifice to funnel players to their shot-blockers? That in the last 6 years, they have ranked 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, and 3 in block%? Yes, they were not first last year–for the first time in over 5 years. THAT IS WHY THABEET HAS SO MANY BLOCKS! He is a SYSTEM player in the blocks department.
I don’t know how many people realize that… Connecticut forces no turnovers (always in the 330s nationally) in order to get blocks. Thabeet was the perfect match for the system.
It doesn’t happen that way in the pros!
@Vega
You're gonna see a lot more teams doing the same this offseason. Everyone's trying to save money, hence there are plenty of bargains to be had if you're willing to take on salary.
What the heck are the Bucks doing? RJ is worth way more than what they got for him.
UPDATE: Royce Young's Rumble Prize Pack has just arrived. More details later.
@Kev
Haha, I'll agree with you that they get bounced if Ginobli is hurt again, Duncan is tired from being forced to shoulder the bulk of the load again and Richard Jefferson and/or Tony Parker somehow disappear from their roster during the playoffs.
I think you're reading way too much into the Spurs losses against the Thunder. Dallas also looked awful in their loss to the Thunder, and were just fine afterwards. So will the Spurs.
But hey, I hope you're right. One less elite team in the West. I just won't count on it.
They didnt play like a 3rd seed at the end of the year - they're old . . . and broken . . . they will win 50 again and get bounced early . . .
anybody noticed that it's hot today in Oklahoma?
high temp will be, what, 100000000 degrees?
:(
@Kev
The reason Jefferson keeps getting dealt is he is a productive wing player at a position that a lot of teams have issues with in terms of scoring and overall productivity. This gives the Spurs the slashing/wing threat that Parker and Duncan need to give them more space and creates a double-edged sword scenario for defense when both Jefferson and Ginobli are on the floor together. I'm still surprised Portland balked at the idea of adding a veteran like Jefferson since they sorely lack a SF.
Bowen will be released and re-sign with the Spurs in August. Oberto and Thomas are expiring contracts which should help the Bucks keep Session since Villanueva is going to ask for ridiculous money most likely, and this helps spur on Joe Alexander's to develop.
And the Spurs were old, weren't 100% last year and still managed to snag the third seed in the Western Conference. They're not going anywhere. And this trade only makes them better. Though this is a clear indication that they're putting all their chips into the next three years.
I can't help but think there are going to be opportunities out there for good deals. The Bucks save $3 million right off the bat, and get $30 million (I think that's what I read) in expiring contracts.
@Kev
That makes me think--suppose the Thunder improve rapidly this year, and manage to snag the #7 seed (not gonna happen, but it's fun to dream), and we run into the Spurs in the first round? It'd be Dallas-Golden State all over again, haha.
Parker
Ginobili
Jefferson
Duncan
Not bad. That's a lot of scoring on the floor at once. SA-LA Western Conference Finals in 2010?
they are still old, and Ginobli hasnt been 100 percent in awhile - Duncan has already slowed down - look at the Thunder games last year, and compare it to prime Duncan - there was no comparison . . .