Fanhouse looks at 10 NBA players under 30 fighting for their NBA lives: “Robert Swift (Oklahoma 
City) — The former lottery pick has never been able to stay healthy and has never developed into a dependable NBA center. He is a legit 7-footer and does have a decent touch around the basket, but his knees have failed him and he doesn’t have much of a resume. Swift has played 97 games in five years and has had two major knee surgeries. The market for him will be thin.”
One man dares to doubt the genius of Sam Presti: “Which leads me to ask, is Sam Presti really the genius he is portrayed as? From a transaction standpoint, I can’t argue with the results. He turned a going nowhere roster into a team with a lot of potential, but I still think he has botched the last two drafts. Considering his laurels rest in how great he is at talent evaluation, that scares me. Perhaps he’ll make some trades or make a shocking free agent acquisition in the next couple of weeks that will change my mind, but right now, I think there is more myth to Presti’s mystique than a lot of fans want to admit.”
Reminiscing about the Thunder’s move: “It took 61 truckloads to carry the 786,000 pounds of freight the franchise moved halfway across the country – piling up 110,000 miles. The franchise also paid to relocate the employees who wanted to stay with the team, which wouldn’t reveal the total cost of the move. The early days of the Oklahoma City NBA franchise – then without a new name or colors – were centered in a plain, second-floor conference room at the Skirvin Hilton downtown. What would become the Thunder’s office at the Leadership Square building was still unfinished, with wires hanging from the ceiling.”
Just in case you’ve been asleep for the last 24 hours, Trevor Ariza to the Rockets, Ron Artest to LA, Marcin Gortat to Dallas and Rasheed Wallace has been offered a 2-year deal by Boston. Free agency is fun.
Chris Silva with Nick Collison: “What have you been focusing on? “I really want to work on my jump shot, kind of the balance of my jump shot. I feel that last year I didn’t shoot the ball as well as I would have wanted, so it’s something I’m really focusing on. I’m always working on my body and strength. Kind of everything. We play a lot of 1-on-1 and different basketball stuff. It’s pretty basic.”
More on the anniversary (with pictures!): “In the ensuing months — a total of 146 days — the Thunder franchise would: launch its community initiative to help welcome the holiday season to Oklahoma; announce a partnership for a Thunder youth basketball league; unveil the Rolling Thunder Book Bus; and introduce its mascot, Rumble the Bison. This list, too, goes on. Along the way, Thunder fans have strengthened their reputation as the best in the NBA. The Ford Center not only is loud, but filled to more than 97 percent of its capacity. But it is just not about decibel levels. There is unified passion. And compassion.
Henry Abbott on the Artest deal: “But my gut reaction to the news that Artest is the newest Laker is: I can hardly imagine a better player for the Lakers to add, nor a better team for Artest to join. There’s a 20% chance the whole thing combusts in dreadful fashion. 80% likely, in my view, is that the NBA has the makings of its next dynasty.”
Dime doesn’t think the Rubio thing is completely over: “The report that Ricky Rubio was officially headed back to Spain appears to be more of a rumor than a report. Team Rubio is insisting that no decision has been made.”
David Berri looks at one dimensional players like Ben Gordon: “Of course, if all we focus upon is scoring, then Gordon and Villanueva are above average players. But once we move past scoring we see that Gordon was below average last season with respect to rebounds, steals, turnovers, blocked shots, and assists. And Villanueva was below average with respect to steals, turnovers, and personal fouls (and not really far above average with respect to anything else).” Remember how people thought OKC should sign him? Yeah, wasn’t gonna happen.
Darnell Mayberry on Gerald Green: “It’s low-risk, high-reward players like Green that Thunder general manager Sam Presti has become known for targeting. Green turned only 23 in January and figures to be four years from entering into the prime of his career. For now, he’s seemingly a cost-effective option that potentially could provide Oklahoma City with another perimeter shooter and rangy defender on the wing.”
I really don't know why people are comparing Collison and Millsap -
Green and Collison can exist together on the court
Green and Millsap cannot play together on the court - that would be one of the smallest 4/5 combos in the league . . .
@Dan
You're right, Millsap is better then Collison. The issue is not starting Millsap over Green who will bet getting paid far more then Green.
I'm not really sure how those minutes would break up well.
The only way I see presti signing millsap is if he is the future replacement for collison. Collison is making $6.5 mil this year and next year. So if Millsap is really willing to front load his contract to help keep the core together, then it makes a lot of sense. Then Presti's plan of completely gutting the old sonics team will be complete, he doesn't have far to go. Although I like collison, millsap would be much better.
Happy 4th, everybody! (some patriotic stuff for you, my brothers and sisters...)
As a younger and less grateful American, I always used to use this holiday as an excuss to blow-up fireworks, drink heavily, and generally be up to no good in the name of "freedom".
Now that I'm a bit older and hopefully wiser, I have have seen my friends/peers go off to foreign lands,(Germany, Guam, Iraq, and Afganistan), in the name of OUR freedom, to uphold the values and rights handed down by our four-fathers.
It brings a tear to my eye to think of what a proud and selfless act it must be to put the life of yourself and your fellow soldiers/countrymen on the line for our ideals and quality of life.
Just wanted to say thanks to all that have served, past, present and future. We are strong because of you. (Thanks, Bob, Duey, Rob, and the rest.)
(getting down from my soap-box...)
I leave you with a few words from my favorite president.(even though he was a Republican!jk!)
Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth
on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and
dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing
whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so
dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-
field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of
that field as a final resting-place for those who here gave
their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether
fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate…we cannot
consecrate…we cannot hallow…this ground. The brave men,
living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it
far above our poor power to add or detract. The world
will little note nor long remember what we say here, but
it can never forget what they did here. It is for us, the
living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished
work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly
advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the
great task remaining before us…that from these honored
dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which
they gave the last full measure of devotion; that we here
highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain;
that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of
freedom; and that government of the people, by the people,
for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
Abe
November 19, 1863
Have a safe holiday and please remember why we celebrate it.
ps GO THUNDER!!!!!
Stepping back this team needs guys who shoot well, don't turn it over and play decent defense.
Milsap is high on a list of names I generated with these criteria. Though his defense has slipped some year to year.
There is some small sample suggestion that he may be better at C (probably more against backups) than at PF.
Part of the decision on what to offer is how good you think DJ White is. Unless you thought Milsap was way better I'd give White a shot first.
Powe does quite well by these criteria too. Bass pretty well. http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=bI1cr
THIS JUST IN....
Hedo will be the new Peja...Over paid...old/dying...
Unless he's the missing piece for your championship puzzle....avoid him.
Yeah....what JG said.
that team doesn't really possess alot of role models - I wonder what will be like when you get to Denver -
Martz give us an update when you get in town . . . I'm (seriously) interested in what you see . . .
Totally off the subject, but I've spent the past week around Vail and now Steamboat Springs, and I have yet to see a Nuggets T-shirt, bumper sticker or anything. Maybe it will change once we get to Denver...
@nick
You, my friend, are the exception!
@dave
Yeah, Harden just led the Pac 10 in steals and had one of the fastest 3/4 sprint times at the combine, that's all.
Err... I guess this is average for potential draftees not the league. The two may not be the same. I am not sure what the real league averages are. But the Thunder may not be as thin for starters as it 'looks".
Livingston listed at 182. 2 pounds heavier than Conley and Parker? Is that right size? Where?
Compared to league average
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All
Westbrook is 3 pounds heavier
Harden is 18 pounds heavier
Durant is 13 pounds heavier
Green is average
Krstic is 9 pounds heavier
Ibaka weighs (if the listing is accurate) the same as Harden. Are they both just right?
On summer roster Devon Hardin listed at 6-11 235
Serge Ibaka F 6-10 220. Lighter than Durant is now?
Are either too thin?
Probably not but it possible to go wrong both ways.
@MartzMimic
hey! i don't think i'm miserable :(
And, honestly. Of all the Presti draftees... how many are slow, fat and untalented?
Man, I really think that Harden is going to work hard to prove people like "lowercased life" dave wrong, and I think he's working on it right now. Regular followers know exactly how athletic Harden is and how non-athletic Rubio seems (but we don't know, do we). Colin Cowherd was talking today about how much punishment Rubio will have to absorb with that small body. With Westbrook, he's an athletic freak and will consistently pop up after getting knocked down and Harden looks to be the same kind of player. I don't think too many people are going to keep him from the basket.
@Josh
A Thunderworld link! Points for you good sir.
was in a hurry the first time i posted... and i'm not into caps unless its an offical report :P
AHHH summer league + getting a guage on Ibakka = good month comming up :)
@Kev
Russ does need to cut down his TOs, espcially in crunch-time, but I think there are several reasons for optimism.
First, there is the school of thought (e.g., Hollinger http://thethunderworld.blogspot.com/2009/01/espns-john-hollinger-really-smart-guy.html) that rookies with high turnover rates have much higher rates of improvement in subsequent seasons. I think, Hollinger may have explained that they take more risks and make more mistakes so they are able to learn from those mistakes. But maybe it just means they have more room to improve in an area that is largely mental and coachable (as opposed to improving in areas that are based more on skill level or physical attributes).
Second, unlike some of the other point guards, Russ was making the switch to PG from SG in college, so its natural to expect a bit more of a learning curve.
Third, a lot of his turnovers came from his aggressive (often out of control) drives to the basket, which I take as a positive. Russ got to the free throw line a LOT for a rookie, especially a PG, and had a foul rate roughly double that of other heralded rookie guards like Rose and Mayo (http://www.82games.com/0809/FGSORT18.HTM). If he improves his finishing (more below) or eventually starts to get some "star" calls on those drives some of those TOs could turn into free throws or lay-ups. I'm not sure how much these stats really mean, but 82games.com shows that Russ actually has a pretty good assist/ bad pass ratio of 4.6(comparable to D Rose) and a pretty good passing rating (http://www.82games.com/0809/08OKC4.HTM), I think because he created a good amount of dunks and close shots.
All in all, I'm pretty optimistic that Westbrook can eventually make a big leap forward, even if he doesn't improve his jumper right away. He got to the hoop a lot but converted at a pretty low rate (47.8%). Given his athleticism and size for the position, I think there is a good chance that he makes huge strides in that area in the next few years (for example, I believe Deron Williams actually shot below 50% on inside shots his rookie year but shot almost 60% last year; see also Rajon Rondo).
@MartzMimic
Hahaha. Lowercase lives. Outstanding.
Have you noticed how people who are too lazy to capitalize their screen name seem to be, by and large, miserable? I guess they just lead lowercase lives.
presti only knack is putting a losing team on the court tell me where im wrong i hate dick vitale but he said okc would rue the day they took harden over curry and thats the only thing he ever said that made sense
dave :
dan yer kidding hardens goal is to be a lock down defender hell he cant defend anybody very slow and very fat and very little talent he will not help us a bit
This has to be the least punctuated sentence in history.
dan yer kidding hardens goal is to be a lock down defender hell he cant defend anybody very slow and very fat and very little talent he will not help us a bit
The only Brooks I care about is Scotty, not Lopez. Jet Zero is a great player. Maybe he isn't a "true point guard" but he is, none the less a great player.If we would have taken Rubio great things might have happened, or terrible things might have happened. No one knows, and no one ever will. We took Harden, that is a done deal. We have said this for a while, but I will say it again. I believe in Sam Presti. But I also believe in Scott Brooks, Clay Bennett, Russel Westbrook, James Harden, Thabo Sefolosha, Kyle Weaver, Kevin Durant, Jeff Green, Nick Collison, D.J. White, and Nenad Kristic. This team is not about Presti, it is about the entire team. A GM can only do so much.
the effort was not there on a consistent basis - that's what needs to be fixed - hopefully Brooks benches the guys that are lax on defense . . .
Also, Presti isn't modeling the team into a copy of any other teams. A fast paced team that is capable of playing defense. Durant will play better defense as his body fills out, same with westbrook, harden's goal is to be a lockdown defender. The bulls won 6 championships without an established big man and it took Jordan 4 years to get the bulls to a winning record. Long term is what matters. Durant is capable of carrying the team, the young guys just need to fill out and learn to play defense, their effort is their.
@Dan
That's what I'm talking about. Nicely put.
Westbrook's best month, Feb, he avg 20.6 pts, 5.9 asts, 6.1 reb, and shooting 8 free throws a game in his rookie year, after only starting 1 year for ucla, not turning 20 until after the season started. If you look at D-wade's first year, he was 21 going into the season and turned 22 in jan, the highest avg he had for one month was 19.4 pts and .2 reb at 36 min a game. At 22, almost 23 he made a big jump. Russell doesn't shoot like d-wade but give him 2 more years to fully develop.
But for that time period the comparison should be to everybody not just each other.
Really though it will be where are they in 2011-4.
"If Memphis finishes ahead of OKC next season what will people say…"
The emphasis was on "next season" but I'll note that Chris Wallace's team finished ahead of Sam (albeit barely) the last 2 seasons. Three in a row would hurt, I'd think. If it goes that away.
It may not, but would be hard to explain that away if it does.
I guess we also have to remember that when Presti took over, our Point guard situation was Luke Ridnour and Earl Watson. Luke had been hurt quite a bit the previous season (P.J.'s first) and they trotted out a lot of Earl, a little of Luke, and a bit of Delonte West prior to the All star trades.
Presti could just as easily make the case that a quality big man or a quality PG are both essentially equally important to long term success. I liked Brook, but I thought he was sort of shot happy and not so much into blocking shots, rebounding and defense (I thought his brother was better at those things). What surprises me is that in the pros, Brook has really shown that he is an all around quality big man, and in the absence of his brother, he can do that stuff too. So, following that logic, Presti likely saw something in Westbrook that he thought was foundational for the team going forward, above that which Lopez brought.
The team had a lot of needs prior to last years draft. Now that it's over as well as this latest one, it's a great feeling to feel that the team has reached the bottom, and been built on a great foundation and is on the rise. I think it started sometime around New years eve 2008, when we beat Golden State if memory serves.
I'm not a big +/- guy Crow but I see your point. I just view as you have two guys playing together but basically should play the same position. Also both guys have a ways to go defensively. That is the key this year - I can't wait until the season starts to see if Brooks can get these guys playing consistent defense.
How close does Presti's design this year get to what Pritchard's did last year?
This is all extremely interesting. When I personally look to evaluate GMs or coaches I think about how many championships, wins, and what the salaries look like. Presti is a little raw but sitting at 15 mil under the cap with every sports fans most epic free agency next year plus our pick and phoenix's pick (which could be high considering what they are working with).
Anybody that was trying to grow now in this free agency climate should have had a 10 hour discussion on the pros and cons of trades considering whats going to happen next year. Presti still has a great opportunity to help mold this team into an awesome playoff team.
I guess Roy and Aldridge were starting their 3rd year so maybe that doesn't quite fit. But it is close.
That lineup had an adjusted of +18 per 48 minutes / a full game. The Thunder's starting lineup was -18 per game against an average level team. Night and day difference on fit. At this point.
When does Durant-Green get to neutral (0) when together? Next year? The year after, the year after that?
"Name any team with 3 first or second year players starting that succeed!'
That is a fair challenge.
Got one response though, just last season.
I do see Portland with a starting lineup that at the start of the season had the following level of experience-
5 (role-player - Blake), 2 (star-Roy), 0 (Batum) , 2 (semi-star Aldridge) and 8 years (role player Joel P.) experience. They won 54. That is fit.
One thing I'd like to point out about the interesting thought of a Rubio, Thabo, Durant, Green, Lopez lineup:
What if both Lopez and Westbrook turn out to be great players? Sure you can say what if, just like the Nuggets could say, "What if we had taken Dwyane Wade instead of Carmelo?" Maybe the team would be better, maybe not. But both players have been successful so does it really matter? The mistake is there if Westbrook turned out like Darko and didn't make a dent. Then you question the pick.
Jax Raging Bile Duct :
Anyone remember reading this article by freedarko? http://freedarko.blogspot.com/2009/04/youve-been-scared.html
It’s the article that talks about how non-standard a player Westbrook has proven to be. At least in his rookie year. Maybe he becomes something else with experience and growth.
Also, anyone remember how Russell was 2 rebounds short of becoming only the fourth rookie in NBA history to record at least 1,200 points, 400 rebounds and 400 assits? 2 more rebounds, and he’s in a group with Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson and Alvin Adams.
Unconventional? Yes. Talented? Yes. Hall of Famer like those other 3? Who knows. Shoals compared him to Dwayne Wade’s graph. But one thing is for sure, there haven’t been many Russell Westbrooks before, so we’re not entirely sure what road his particular talent will take him. It’s easy to be critical when someone doesn’t fit the proven pattern. But then again, those who don’t fit the pattern are the easiest bet to change the way the game is played.
Again, standing and clapping. Great insight.
Still, a lot of the criticism of RW is warranted. For starters - the guy led the league (pace-ajusted/minuted played) in turnovers. You can't merely explain the away the statistic because he's a rookie - he wasn't the only rookie playing point guard last year. He has to make much better decisions.
Nick Collison is just the best:
"Hyped for the 10 year hs reunion tonight. Spending the afternoon making flashcards from yearbook pictures and studying to avoid awkwardness."
http://twitter.com/nickcollison4/status/2457873029
J.G. :
I was definitely one in the Lopez camp, and a small part of me still wonders what the team would be like with him. Another part of me believes that the second he fell to #10 in that draft, if I were a GM I would have made it happen to acquire him, especially with the Nets desperate for cap space and in need of more picks to facilitate their rebuilding efforts to lure Lebron. But I don’t know, so I won’t say it as a certainty…which is what is wrong with Clark’s assertion.
The problem with any discussion about last year’s draft is that people forget that Swift, Sene and Petro were all on the team. In retrospect, there was no way Presti was going to take Lopez unless he could swing a deal where he could have traded one or more of those individuals and that just was a slim to none likelihood with all of the questions about Lopez’s defensive abilities and questionable motor that surrounded him at Stanford.
The issue, along the lines of what Joe said, about Clark’s entire premise is that it is based entirely on conjecture. There are no concrete facts in the entire article (other than the ones that showed what Presti has done that Clark thought was amazing) because, guess what, there are no facts yet that show that Presti botched the drafts or that “insert name of player” is actually better or worse than “insert name of other player, which is why Presti is overrated.”
And I love the argument of “he could have gotten something more for Harden.” Again, we have no idea what was said or attempted any more than what internet driven rumors insinuated. Again, opinion is not fact and opinions without viable backing for them do nothing to sway the reader.
A succinct and crisp article, that unfortunately lacked the biggest thing that good writing, especially argumentative writing, needs to be successful: support. Nothing in that article concretely supported the assertion, thus, it never came close to going from “opinion” to “persuasive argument.”
Well wait, there were a lot of concrete facts in the article at the beginning. The only problem for Clark is that they were all representations of how good a GM Presti has been. Persuasive writing necessitates the writer use an opponent’s argument against them (hence why Clark probably used the evidence of Presti’s positive moves), but he failed to discredit those positive moves enough to sway the reader to his side. Thus, the reader is given a vast display of evidence that Presti has been a good GM and then is force-fed an underdeveloped, conjecture-based and factless argument to the contrary the rest of the way, which only pushes them towards the evidence instead of the opinion.
All in all, though, an interesting read. And one that highlighted Clark’s thorough understanding of the NBA. Just not persuasive in any way.
Amen. (standing and clapping!)
Anyone remember reading this article by freedarko? http://freedarko.blogspot.com/2009/04/youve-been-scared.html
It's the article that talks about how non-standard a player Westbrook has proven to be. At least in his rookie year. Maybe he becomes something else with experience and growth.
Also, anyone remember how Russell was 2 rebounds short of becoming only the fourth rookie in NBA history to record at least 1,200 points, 400 rebounds and 400 assits? 2 more rebounds, and he's in a group with Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson and Alvin Adams.
Unconventional? Yes. Talented? Yes. Hall of Famer like those other 3? Who knows. Shoals compared him to Dwayne Wade's graph. But one thing is for sure, there haven't been many Russell Westbrooks before, so we're not entirely sure what road his particular talent will take him. It's easy to be critical when someone doesn't fit the proven pattern. But then again, those who don't fit the pattern are the easiest bet to change the way the game is played.
"The best lineup in that top20? Had neither Durant or Green." I am not saying that lineup is best or the way of the future but it is a jarring piece of trivia compared to what Durant-Green does together. There was no Durant-Green together lineup played over 30 minutes all season without Mason or Watson who aren't going to be here long-term (or maybe ever again) that was positive. None.
You could minimize Durant-Green together as I have suggested before, even going to this extreme
Durant-Green together 12 minutes a game
Durant SF alone 15 minutes
Green PF alone 6 minutes
Durant PF alone 5 minutes
Green SF alone 10 minutes
Total Durant 33
Total Green 28
That is a lot of jockeying. But it might give better results than what they produced doing a lot of time together.
The best lineup in that top20? Had neither Durant or Green.
This proves the absurdity of using that statistic to evaluate Presti.