Thunder 87, Jazz 86 – Box Score
Last year on New Year’s Eve I had a party to go to. I remember that I told the crew I wouldn’t be there until about 8pm. I had to watch the Thunder and I needed to do a recap (I think I was still on the old blog before Daily Thunder). At that time the team was 3-and-freaking-29. There were articles written almost every day about how the Thunder were one of the worst teams in history…
That night the Thunder came out and beat Golden State and it was the start of something special. That game was the fulcrum, the tipping point if you will for a surge into the new year that saw the team attain a measure of respectability. See the team was only 3-29 going into the new year last year, but they came out and won 10 of their next 19 games and the buzz began about the how the team was making progress.
Tonight similarly has the feel of something special. I don’t have a crystal ball or anything but it just feels like this team has taken the next step. The last step was just getting to somewhere around .500. This next step is beating good teams. The good teams that when you beat them or lose to them might make or break you when the playoff seeding shakes out in the spring. Tonight the Thunder protected the home court, beat a quality team just ahead of them in the standings and finished up the old year 18-14.
Tonight the Thunder pulled out a close game against a very evenly matched Utah team. It really seems sort of surreal to mention Utah and OKC in the same sentence and consider them to be evenly matched, but I really think that’s the case. The game tonight was reasonably tight most of the way. Neither team got out and put the smackdown on the other, however the game was really closer than it needed to be. The Thunder played what I thought was really stingy defense most of the night. Sure there were blown plays but what I mean is that the defensive energy was high, the closeouts were sharp and the general defensive tenor seemed tight. If the Thunder had managed to hit a few more than half it’s free throws this thing could have been a walk away; we left 14 points on the board right there. Also the 19 turns didn’t help matters. But the Thunder were far the more efficient offensive team shooting 47% to 41% for the Jazz.
Randomness:
- Quick quiz: which team leads the NBA in free throw shooting percentage and yet only made half its free throws tonight? Anyone?
- I can’t say enough about Nick Collison. Dude just has humongous giant stones. The Thunder are down by one with like 12 seconds left. KD shoots a long two and bricks it. Colly gets his position for the rebound and tussles with Paul Milsap for the most important rebound of the night. Colly comes up with it and get’s fouled. He’s 2-5 from the line for the night. We need one to tie and two to win. Big stones Colly steps and just knocks them down. Big time.
- Kevin Durant nailed a big three to tie it up at at 81 apiece. It was KD’s 6th consecutive 30+ point game which ties the franchise record set back in 72 by Spencer Haywood. For real.
- There was a great sequence in the first period where Andre Kirilenko was guarding KD and really getting after it. He is one dude who can really match up with the young fella. Utah was switching some screens so Brooks just called KD to set a screen for the Westbrook. The Jazz switched it and AK was left guarding Westbrook and Deron Williams was guarding KD, who just turned around and elevated for an easy jumper. Just a little tit for tat in the coaching matchup.
- There was a great sequence in the first quarter where Krstic played great post defense on Okur and blew up his layin and got the rebound then he made his way down the court and got the Oreb and the putback for a score; then he got back and collected a charge on Booz.
- The Jazz move around without the ball a lot and don’t use screens the way most teams do.
- Westbrook had 7 assists by halftime. I didn’t keep count but I couldn’t believe the number of times he threaded the needle for an open shot right at the basket. He was really finding the gaps in the defense tonight.
- I get the impression that Brooks has given Eric Maynor the green light to shoot or drive when he has some daylight. He got up 5 shots in 15 minutes and has a very nice floater. Oh yeah, and six assists and no turns.
- Harden has been the subject of some brisk conversation lately. How he’s gone from being a tentative shooter and strong passer to just the opposite. What he needs to do in my opinion is to learn that little stop and step back move like Kobe has. Where he drives the lane and then stops on a dime, does one little step back while the defense is retreating and has an open jumper. If not that maybe a little high floater like Maynor has. But for him to force the layin against 2 or 3 defenders who are bigger than him is a losing proposition. The shot is there sometimes I am sure, but you can’t just force it when there is no daylight.
- When Utah went to a zone in the third they closed the gap and took the lead. Then they went away from it?
- How about the play where KD was backing down a defender in the post who knocked the ball loose. Russell grabbed the loose ball and drove the lane in the chaos for a serious dunk.
- Did anyone know Collison had a little floating finger roll?
- Key play of the game: Thunder down by one and forcing Utah into a shot clock violation with 13 seconds left.
Three fun games on the docket: Away against Milwaukee and Chicago and then back home for the Hornets. That’s some serious Point Guard action there.
And lest I forget: Since I am undoubtedly the only Oregonian on Daily Thunder I need to give a big shout out to the Oregon Ducks playing tomorrow in the grandaddy of the bowls – the Rose Bowl. I hope and pray they kick some serious Ohio State butt.
I forgot about Harpring's contract. The easiest / best trade piece.
While I think there could be 25+ useful trades in the league right now, they'll probably be 5 or not much more before the deadline.
If Presti deals it will probably be from Thomas, White, picks and maybe Ollie.
I could construct decent possibilities with NY, Chicago, New Orleans and maybe Cleveland but I'll probably pass or at least wait.
Kev :
justin :I’d be interested to see how your cumulative scores correlate with the player’s defense ratings.
will send you a spreadsheet if you leave the email – I will get it to you tomorrow . . .
jusmoc@gmail.com Thanks!
Kev :
Royce :@KevOh and I enjoy the breakdowns, no doubt. I just saw it a little different on that last possession, that’s all.
no problem, life would stink if everyone agreed all the time
Truer words were never spoken.
Royce :@KevOh and I enjoy the breakdowns, no doubt. I just saw it a little different on that last possession, that’s all.
no problem, life would stink if everyone agreed all the time :)
@Kev
Oh and I enjoy the breakdowns, no doubt. I just saw it a little different on that last possession, that's all.
The colors aren't set in stone for the shirt. Remember, it's a work in progress.
@Mike Mariano
I like the graphic. Would love to see a more earthy color, like dark blue, green, brown. I love the Harden and zombie shirts, but add the bright yellow D shirt and you have a lot of bright colors. Maybe I am just getting old (Will probably still buy it). P.S. sitting on couch, watching Rose Bowl with my zombie shirt on as we speak!
Can't lie, the idea of the new shirt is sweet, but I don't know if it's one i'll be purchasing...not crazy about it.
justin :I’d be interested to see how your cumulative scores correlate with the player’s defense ratings.
will send you a spreadsheet if you leave the email - I will get it to you tomorrow . . .
I'd be interested to see how your cumulative scores correlate with the player's defense ratings.
niimits :@Kev
Yeah I dont mean to say you should stop, like I said its good to read the breakdown and teh mistakes highlighted, especially since the feed isn’t the best way to watch the games, but just wanna make sure you keep in mind that if the same mistakes are being repeated for teh last 32 games(as it so often seems) then it may have something to do with the coaching style too and not just the players!
I see your point, but remember it's just a score. for example, look at the example about Utah being in a zone. IMO that is silly (from a Utah POV) because I knew that Durant would shoot over the top of it - the points still go on the board even though the player wasnt at fault.
I'm still working out the kinks :)
@Kev
Yeah I dont mean to say you should stop, like I said its good to read the breakdown and teh mistakes highlighted, especially since the feed isn't the best way to watch the games, but just wanna make sure you keep in mind that if the same mistakes are being repeated for teh last 32 games(as it so often seems) then it may have something to do with the coaching style too and not just the players!
justin :I still can’t get over the fact that Russ had a 3:1 A:TO ratio through an entire month.
he had very good court vision last night . . . I loved the snap passes of the back picks . . .
@justin
@Joe
thanks guys - it also gives me a basis for comparing guys defensively - something I couldnt do a year ago - I also have done some games by the Warriors and Suns - for example, Nash and Stoudemire are horrible defensively (no secret) but now I know why because I've broken down six of their games - Jared Dudley is almost as good as Thabo defensively, etc . . .
I still can't get over the fact that Russ had a 3:1 A:TO ratio through an entire month.
Kev you should definitely continue with it because even if some don't agree with your conclusions all the time, it still provides an excellent baseline for discussion.
Also, on the tyoes of plays I listed, Williams didnt get the assist on two of the three times - multiple passes happen because of the Thunder's great rotating help defense . . .
@Kev
I like them, keep doing them. :O)
niimits :@Kev
The three detailed plays you mentioned seemed like they all resulted in an assist so that accounts for williams’ three assists, which lets me think that these were the only three mistakes by russ that led to a score. Your examples make it sound like these were just some of the many times russ messed up. I appreciate you breaking down the defense, but I cant help but notice that its the same people that always end up in the plus in your analysis. I only get to watch parts of the games streamed online, because i dont have league pass, so I am sure you get a much much better look than mea nd are right more often that not. But here is the thing with analyzing the D, seems like some of the things you complain about with especially the switching on the screens, but thats something the coaching needs to address. I mean not to say that you are wrong about what they should do, but if the same thing has been happening for 32 games now, then I doubt that its the players not listening to the coaches (they just cannot be stubborn) maybe the coaches are fine with it and want it that way. Again just saying that what you consider wrong may not be something addressed by the coaches and thus maybe acceptable for the team.
good points in your posts - I am speculating about things, and oviously the coaches have a different spin on it -
as for the points, the same players always end up in the plus because (IMO) they are superior defensive players . . . over the course of a game, if you don't have a defensive mindset, you will make some mistakes . . .
I know it's a crude system and it has its detractors, but if enough people like the breakdown then I will keep doing them . . .
I appreciate the feedback . . .
*(they just cannot be THAT stubborn)*
@Kev
The three detailed plays you mentioned seemed like they all resulted in an assist so that accounts for williams' three assists, which lets me think that these were the only three mistakes by russ that led to a score. Your examples make it sound like these were just some of the many times russ messed up. I appreciate you breaking down the defense, but I cant help but notice that its the same people that always end up in the plus in your analysis. I only get to watch parts of the games streamed online, because i dont have league pass, so I am sure you get a much much better look than mea nd are right more often that not. But here is the thing with analyzing the D, seems like some of the things you complain about with especially the switching on the screens, but thats something the coaching needs to address. I mean not to say that you are wrong about what they should do, but if the same thing has been happening for 32 games now, then I doubt that its the players not listening to the coaches (they just cannot be stubborn) maybe the coaches are fine with it and want it that way. Again just saying that what you consider wrong may not be something addressed by the coaches and thus maybe acceptable for the team.
I think that article proves that we benefit much more as a team offensively when Russ is distributing and protecting the ball than when he's shooting marginally better. Russ shot ~36% in December from the field but had a stellar 7.5:2.5 A:TO ratio. In November his A:TO was below 2:1, but he shot at a much higher percentage.
And room and need to go further.
OKC also has the biggest increase in 3 pt frequency from last season but they were so low they had the best oppportunity to increase and the greatest need to do so.
I don't mind that defensive play by Russ to end the game. I agree with Royce that they wanted the ball out of Williams' hands. I dont' like that Russ reached in, but I don't mind the fact that he was helping out off Ronnie Price.
@4razr
Nice find.
Crow :
Yeah Tapdog72. Probably unrealistic to think you are going to crank the defense down on those teams. At least this quick. Gotta improve the offense. Somewhere, somehow and probably several somewheres and somehows.
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/12/31/numbers.game/index.html#
Since the subject is offense, just thought I'd point to OKC having the 3rd most improved offense November to December, +5.9pts. Definitely moving the right direction. Great to see how this roster is growing.
To try Thabo shooting 3 a game and see what kind of FG% he posts.
Durant and Green were hitting 3’s like last year would certainly help and KD is back recently. Those things and more Harden and more Maynor might be enough. It better be.
Maybe one more big who can hit the 3.
I doubt they try Krstic or White at that but in garbage time it might be worth a look.
Yeah the call when Stanford hit the guy recieving the kick for OU wasn't called for a flag because Stanford's coach told the ref his player was pushed into the OU player, was one of the worst calls i've seen in my life!
How about OU winning yesterday? Anything to say about that? Stanford is a nightmare.
f5alcon :i dont think presti could break up the broingtons without making KD mad, so it wouldnt happen before KD signs an extension
I don't see KD being mad at all if he's getting help and even a better player (with a good personality mind you) that can give HIS team more production.
Royce :@KevNot thrilled with the tone here, but the point is, the Thunder won a fifth straight (woo!) and I know I’m happy about it.
I am happy too, but I am just breaking the tape down as always . . .
@Crow
Imagine if Durant and Green were hitting 3's like last year. That might be good enough.
i dont think presti could break up the broingtons without making KD mad, so it wouldnt happen before KD signs an extension
@Kev
Not thrilled with the tone here, but the point is, the Thunder won a fifth straight (woo!) and I know I'm happy about it.
The 3 ball seems the easiest way to me.
Yeah Tapdog72. Probably unrealistic to think you are going to crank the defense down on those teams. At least this quick. Gotta improve the offense. Somewhere, somehow and probably several somewheres and somehows.
Royce :@KevA) Well, we’re talking about one crucial play in the game. It’s fine if he does it often, but in this case, it worked out.
B) Alongside in most situations is beaten, especially against Deron Williams. I recall Williams nailing an And-1 on Thabo when he was “alongside” him. And again, I’d MUCH rather Ronnie Price take an 18-foot jumper than Deron Williams drive to the hole. I’m sure Scott Brooks would too.
C) We don’t know if Korver would have made that and it wasn’t Korver – it was Ronnie Price. If Westbrook is guarding Korver, he might not leave him. But I’m sure Scott Brooks told Westbrook, “Hey, you’re guarding Ronnie Freaking Price, if Williams drives, force him to kick.”
D) The play all happened in about three seconds. Westbrook’s momentum carried him through Price. Thabo was headed in the direction of Price. There is no way Westbrook could have helped and recovered there.
E) I really don’t see how he was “owned”, especially since Williams was 1-4 for two points in the third. With just one assist.
F) How is that a “mediocre” way to assess defense? Isn’t the point of basketball to put the ball in the hoop? And if you stop your man from doing that, you’re doing a pretty good job. Yes, I’m not stupid, I realize there is a lot more to defense than preventing your man from scoring. But, before Thabo took over in the fourth quarter, Williams was 2-9 for four points. Yes, maybe Westbrook messed up defensively in other ways but the first principle – the most IMPORTANT principle – of man-to-man defense to to defend your guy. Don’t let him score. And Westbrook had one of the very best offensive point men in the league held to 2-9 shooting and four points and just two assists. Williams had 10 points on 4-5 and one assist in the fourth. And I even think Thabo did a great job on him. Williams is just a great player.
Williams and Thano gave up penetration repeatedly - the rest of the Thunder (besides Russell) plays great help defense - they made Williams pass the ball when he got in the lane - just because Williams doesnt get the two in the column, that doesnt mean Russ is off the hook - I even gave you three (detailed) examples which you failed to address . . .
like I said, let's just agree to disagree and move on . . .
Any after the fact thoughts about your True Hoops experience Royce? Do they (or the site operators) ask you for advice about running affiliate sites? Probably should.
I guess you need to know who slips on defense too against the best to get the full story.
@Crow
The only thing that jumps out to me about the games against the higher teams is that most of them we give up over 100 points. The exceptions are two of the wins and the Portland game early in the season. We just don't have a good enough offense most of the time to outscore the better teams when we give up 100+.
Green may not be the solution but at least he isn't a drop off guy against the west's top 8- so far this season.
I guess this is the next challenge for Durant. Maybe changing a role player or getting another core player will do the trick.
@Kev
A) Well, we're talking about one crucial play in the game. It's fine if he does it often, but in this case, it worked out.
B) Alongside in most situations is beaten, especially against Deron Williams. I recall Williams nailing an And-1 on Thabo when he was "alongside" him. And again, I'd MUCH rather Ronnie Price take an 18-foot jumper than Deron Williams drive to the hole. I'm sure Scott Brooks would too.
C) We don't know if Korver would have made that and it wasn't Korver - it was Ronnie Price. If Westbrook is guarding Korver, he might not leave him. But I'm sure Scott Brooks told Westbrook, "Hey, you're guarding Ronnie Freaking Price, if Williams drives, force him to kick."
D) The play all happened in about three seconds. Westbrook's momentum carried him through Price. Thabo was headed in the direction of Price. There is no way Westbrook could have helped and recovered there.
E) I really don't see how he was "owned", especially since Williams was 1-4 for two points in the third. With just one assist.
F) How is that a "mediocre" way to assess defense? Isn't the point of basketball to put the ball in the hoop? And if you stop your man from doing that, you're doing a pretty good job. Yes, I'm not stupid, I realize there is a lot more to defense than preventing your man from scoring. But, before Thabo took over in the fourth quarter, Williams was 2-9 for four points. Yes, maybe Westbrook messed up defensively in other ways but the first principle - the most IMPORTANT principle - of man-to-man defense to to defend your guy. Don't let him score. And Westbrook had one of the very best offensive point men in the league held to 2-9 shooting and four points and just two assists. Williams had 10 points on 4-5 and one assist in the fourth. And I even think Thabo did a great job on him. Williams is just a great player.
The DON :
Kev :
The DON :@KevWow! You really think in the midst of such a season Presti gets rid of Green? I cannot imagine that happening. Thats not to say I wouldn’t trade him, because I would in a heartbeat for a number of more traditional PF’s out there, but I’m just saying that Presti won’t do it
It sounds like I’m hedging, but I really think it’s a possibility – I really think that Green is a perfect 6th man off the bench if we got a legitimate four to start . . .
Yeah, I think he would be an amazing 6th man, in the mold of Tony Kukoc or Lamar Odom or Manu, but the big question in whether he would accept that role. Also, if we did find a PF good enough to replace him in the starting lineup, I am assuming that PF won’t be a cheap one. So will we have enough money to carry that PF and green (when his contract is up) on our roster, considering the fact that KD will have to get the max and RW has to get paid too?
Jeff Green is defintely not a MAX contract player with his inconsistancy woes, so barring Jeff putting up all star numbers like KD is, he should be attainable if we get another big.
Small sample, so don't want to overdo the interpretation now but I'd check these stuff again at end of this season or mid or end of next season and use it in trade thinking.
Looks like a big part of the team decline against the west's top 8 is from Durant- scoring down 4, rebounds down 1, shooting way off.
Collison's pts & rebs are off against them, Harden's assists & rebs. Ibaka has played more and produce about the same.
Krstic scores 3 less on only 34%FG (in 11 games) and gets 1 less reb.
Thabo scores 1 less, grabs almost 3 less rebs, gets 1 more assist and shoots less well.
Westbrook scores and rebounds more. Shoots better in general but far worse from 3.
Probably need to take the issue of defeating the west's top 8 to player level-
Green actually rebounds and passes better against them than his average. Shoots a bit worse. Defense is trickier to get a quick and reliable answer on.
At this rate the thing I'm most afraid of concerning Jeff Green is that his likable demeanor and good chemistry with teammates will lead to an extension that he will nto be worth. Most of the NBA world just assumes Green is a big component in our success, and as we succeed as a team his value will go up regardless of how he's really playing. Then we extend him, and all of a sudden we're stuck with a SF playing PF making $8 million a year and that's how teams get in trouble. Sam Presti must determine whether Green is a fit on this roster basketball wise, then make a decision.
I think a better course of action would be to trade Green for a center and start Nick Collison with Ibaka backing him up, and Krstic backing up our center. That way everyone's playing the positions they are meant to play.. Nick's playing better than Jeff Green anyway.