Back at it. What an exhausting, yet fun weekend. I’m a little sore from playing pickup yesterday and also worn out from not getting hardly any sleep. But it was all worth it. Back to the season.
A story on Fox News about KD: “Yet Durant buys his shirts at Wal-Mart, drives a conversion van so his cousins are comfortable and spent more than a month sleeping on an air mattress this past summer.`Ten shirts for eighty dollars,” Durant said with a chuckle of the deal he was able to get at Wal-Mart. `You can’t beat that.’ He’d rather hang out and play video games than hit the clubs, and you won’t find Durant dropping F-bombs on the court a la Kevin Garnett.”
There are basically hundreds of stories like this right now, so just read this one and you’re pretty much covered: “Kevin Durant still isn’t quite sure what all the fuss is about. Cameras flash, heads turn and the crowd behind him grows larger with each gigantic stride as one of the league’s brightest young stars struggles to make his way through the madness of the NBA All-Star Jam Session on Saturday afternoon. Fans love him here, especially the ones wearing his No.35 Oklahoma City Thunder jersey, who chant his name and follow him from event to event.”
Henry Abbott grades each player: “Kevin Durant, B: Durant would have been a good choice to shoot with the game on the line, but Karl was subbing him in and out with Nowitzki. He made half of his 14 shots, along with five rebounds and two turnovers.”
Also, Henry mentioned this in the Daily Dime chat last night: “Royce Young of Daily Thunder got a new nickname today. He can shoot 3s, and when they go in, the thing to yell is ‘Young Money.’” Seemed worth mentioning.
Berry Tramel writes that KD was the story of the weekend: “Durant was everywhere. Coaching the rookies. Playing H-O-R-S-E. Pitching Nikes. Durant had more TNT face time than did Charles Barkley. Just look at the treatment of Durant during the All-Star telecast Sunday night. Pull two other players out of a hat. Let’s say Carmelo Anthony and Paul Pierce. Anthony a perennial scoring-title threat on a Denver team that will challenge the Lakers for NBA supremacy. Pierce an eight-time all-star on the regal Celtics. Neither got near the air time Durant did. Kobe. LeBron. D-Wade. Even hometowner Dirk Nowitzki. None were as hot as Durant.”
Frank Hughes of SI with player grades: “Kevin Durant, B: “The University of Texas product was a fan favorite, and his name has been mentioned all weekend as the fastest rising star on the planet. But his outside shot was off the entire night. Running the floor and getting high-quality dunks saved his shooting percentage.”
Kevin Durant on winning HORSE again: “I wanted to try more trick shots this year but that wasn’t working for me. Rondo, he missed a couple of shots he should have made, like the one he spun on his finger. I know I couldn’t have made that shot, so I was fortunate enough to catch him when he was missing some shots and I made some.”
Chris Tomasson on the tough views from last night: “The red ants lost. At least Brandon Lane knew that much about what was going on Sunday night at Cowboys Stadium. “I would probably compare this to watching ants,” said Lane, 28, of Dallas, about watching an NBA All-Star Game in which the red-clad West team fell 141-139 to the East. FanHouse set out to find the worst seats in the venue for a game that attracted a basketball-record crowd of 108,713. Sherpa guides eventually led the way to section 431, row 22.”
With the trade deadline this week, I’m going to dip my toe in the speculation pool just a bit and look at a few different scenarios that most definitely will not happen. But the deadline is fun, if all for just the speculation.
Shoot. I meant shoot.
fyi
http://tinyurl.com/yjzxtw2
Pretty good look at how the Thunder shots from different spots on the court, based on the quality of the defense at those spots.
They show a higher than average tendency to really take advantage of the weak defenses in those zones and also tend to slide down more than average against the good defenses in those zones.
why cant we get in the amare trade talk? i know presti is supposedly not the guy to pull a trigger on something like this but why not a three player deal with philadelphia that lands the suns iguodola kapono and dj white, the sixers get jeff green one of our first rounders and harprings insurance paid contract. We land stoudamire and robin lopez ... i know stoudamire can opt out and we would possibly lose him but why would amare not be interested in teaming up with durant and westbrook for the next four to five
Sammy :@4razrI think Green could easily be a high 30s shooter from 3. Shooting is an easily improvable skill and Jeff showed he has the ability to shoot from a high percentage last year; just because he’s regressed this year doesn’t mean much.
That said, yeah, unless he suddenly packs on 20 more pounds, or unless we get a top 3 center, it’s difficult to see him starting at the 4 on a championship team. I’m not willing to write off his chances just yet – I’d really like to see how this team operates with a decent (top 10-ish) center – but time is running out. He’ll probably continue to start next year, but unless he improves substantially we should be looking for an upgrade at the next trade deadline.
I think he's a better 4 than anything we have at the 5. I'd be happy with a couple big stiffs at the 5 to bang with others teams bigs. I don't care if they can score or not. Right now we're pretty soft inside. Krstic is REALLY soft.
@4razr
I think Green could easily be a high 30s shooter from 3. Shooting is an easily improvable skill and Jeff showed he has the ability to shoot from a high percentage last year; just because he's regressed this year doesn't mean much.
That said, yeah, unless he suddenly packs on 20 more pounds, or unless we get a top 3 center, it's difficult to see him starting at the 4 on a championship team. I'm not willing to write off his chances just yet – I'd really like to see how this team operates with a decent (top 10-ish) center – but time is running out. He'll probably continue to start next year, but unless he improves substantially we should be looking for an upgrade at the next trade deadline.
justin :@James
Jeff Green would be a great, great sixth man in a Robert Horry kind of mold that can come in and do a lot of little things. He’s not starting, 40 MPG, material and the proof is in the pudding. Possibly the worst part of all this is that he hasn’t gotten better like KD and Russ, he’s regressed if anything from last year. He’s starting to score better at least..
Don't want Justin to feel he's alone.... I think he summed up Green pretty well. He's in his third year, and where is he likely to improve? Will he become a great rebounder? A shut-down defender in the paint? Not going to happen. A better 3-pt shooter? That's the best bet, but he's looking like a low 30's % shooter at best, not mid-to-high. He's not great at anything; he's also not terrible at anything.
Despite Clark's sarcasm, he comes up in trade scenarios because he could have more value for another team than for us; and he seems to be valued around the league. He's one of our most attractive and expendable assets. IF he can be moved for, say, Al Jefferson, we should do it in a heartbeat. Move him for Thabeet, perhaps. Dalembert, Biedrins, probably not.
@James
More Jeff Green excuses.. surely if Jeff Green was a 'good' player he could hold his own and be productive on the court no matter the situation. You just got done telling me that Kevin Durant takes rebounding and scoring opportunities away from Jeff Green, now Jeff Green is ineffective because Kevin Durant's off the court. Make up your mind.
Subbing patterns definitely have a bearing here, but I don't think it explains just how poor Jeff's +/- numbers are, and it certainly doesn't excuse his poor individual production throughout the game, compared to his peers. If you look at what he brings to the table compared to opposing PF's we're almost always at a severe disadvantage.
justin :@James
Don’t have concrete proof..? How about the fact that the defense gives up ***12.2*** more points per 100 possessions when Jeff Green is on the court? That Jeff Green is a net -16.7 points per 100 possessions? Our team is quite measurably better when Jeff Green is not playing this year. That isn’t debatable at all. Neither is the fact that Green at or near the bottom among starting NBA PF’s in most things. His TRB% is lower than rebounding champions Andrea Bargnani and Yi Jianlian. His TS% is lower than sharpshooters Boris Diaw and Al Harrington.
Jeff Green would be a great, great sixth man in a Robert Horry kind of mold that can come in and do a lot of little things. He’s not starting, 40 MPG, material and the proof is in the pudding. Possibly the worst part of all this is that he hasn’t gotten better like KD and Russ, he’s regressed if anything from last year. He’s starting to score better at least..
Those stats are garbage because they don't take subbing patterns into account. Green gets subbed out every game at the end of the first quarter when many of the opposing team starters get subbed out. KD stays in with Harden, Maynor, Collison and Ibaka. That group is better than most teams 2nd squad and the +/- I'm sure reflects that. Green comes back in for KD 5 minutes or so into the 2nd quarter with most of the other teams starters. So you have Green plus some reserves against most of the opposing teams starters. No KD verses the opposing teams starters is not going to look great just like Cleveland without Lebron in the lineup won't be as strong or DWade out of the lineup against other teams starters won't be as good etc... Those numbers are not solid proof.
@andrew
I doubt it's happened in modern times, the closest I can find are the 1985-1986 Rockets who lost to Boston in the Finals. Hakeem, Ralph Sampson, John Lucas, and Rodney McCray were all starters and all drafted by Houston. Lewis Lloyd was drafted by Golden State.
If you count the fact that Dennis Scott was a starter by the time they made the Finals, the 94-95 Magic are also close with Shaq, Penny, and Nick Anderson starting with him. They lost in the finals too.
Can anyone tell me who the last team to win a championship with all 5 of its starters being drafted by the team and none coming as the results of trade or free agency? just wondering cuz i am guessing its pretty rare...
@Vega
Good at what? Please tell me what Jeff Green has been 'good at' this year that justifies his minutes.
@Brandon
I too am tired of Uncle Jeff trade talk. I don't think anyone realizes that he is actually a damn good player.
sheesh, i'm ready for the deadline to pass, if only because i'm tired of seeing some of you guys so ready to trade Jeff Green.. Green is a good player, he's had a huge impact in our winning streak lately and has been clutch, he does a lot of good things on the court, he's essential to our chemistry, and he's our franchise player's BFF.. he's not going anywhere..
what you guys should do instead of talking about potential Green trades is read that Fox News article on KD.. what a great piece.. man, just when i thought my mancrush on the Durantula couldn't get any bigger, i read something like that..
They need a wing who can handle big minutes who is a stronger shooter that what they have. I'd get a new SG there before I changed away from Gomes.
I think most Minny fans would argue option two. Maybe they like Flynn at point but probably want a total overhaul
You could argue SF as Minny's greatest need but you could also argue they could easy benefit everywhere except at starting PF.
If I was in Minny I doubt I'll be putting getting Green high on the list over just playing Gomes and probably re-signing him for less or a lot less.
@James
Don't have concrete proof..? How about the fact that the defense gives up ***12.2*** more points per 100 possessions when Jeff Green is on the court? That Jeff Green is a net -16.7 points per 100 possessions? Our team is quite measurably better when Jeff Green is not playing this year. That isn't debatable at all. Neither is the fact that Green at or near the bottom among starting NBA PF's in most things. His TRB% is lower than rebounding champions Andrea Bargnani and Yi Jianlian. His TS% is lower than sharpshooters Boris Diaw and Al Harrington.
Jeff Green would be a great, great sixth man in a Robert Horry kind of mold that can come in and do a lot of little things. He's not starting, 40 MPG, material and the proof is in the pudding. Possibly the worst part of all this is that he hasn't gotten better like KD and Russ, he's regressed if anything from last year. He's starting to score better at least..
@justin
You can call me Luke Skywalker, I'm no Anakin Skywalker. :)
Durant is averaging a rebound more a game this year and Green almost a rebound less. Neither of us have concrete proof either way but I have seen every second of every game both years and the fact is that kd is hanging around and getting the trash rebounds that he didn't last year. Green isn't a great rebounder but he is an asset to the team (and a big part of our improvement). You don't have concrete proof otherwise.
@Justin
LMAO
^ thought
I tought I had gotten Clark to come to the dark side..
LOL at those who couldn't read the sarcasm in clarkem's post.
@James
We're a better rebounding team with Jeff off the court.. a better team period, actually.
That kind of thing wouldn't inflate his rebounds by one or two a game, either.. two a game more would be a 30% increase or so. Let's not make excuses for Jeff Green, he's just a poor rebounder!
@justin
I haven't said he's a great rebounder, all I've said is he could average more if he wanted to by simply going after the rebounds (when there is nobody from the other team around) that he defers to others right now. He rarely goes after it if our team obviously has it. KD really has decided this year to eat those rebounds up. He even knocked one out of Ibaka's hands out of bounds against Portland. Would that make our team better or make Jeff a better rebounder? Of course not but it would inflate his stats a rebound or two a game.
Or not. You can't use faux hashtags in the comments b/c the board uses html
(sarc) (/sarc)
@clarkem
HTML hashtags
The person who invents a way to obviously post sarcasm on the internet will be a rich man.
I haven't heard of players deferring rebounds to teammates. If that's what Green is doing, he should stop because it's causing him to accidentally defer rebounds to the other team.
@clarkem
I should have scrolled down before responding. Ha!
@clarkem
Speak for yourself.
@James
It makes no sense. Either way he's doing something wrong. If he has some hidden ability to score and rebound that we're not seeing because he's deferring to others, I haven't seen it. The more logical explanation is that he's just an inefficient player that should not be taking a lot of shots. He's a poor rebounder who doesn't get to rebounds because of a lack of size and skill, not due to a conscious decision. We get pounded on the offfensive glass in a lot of games, where's Jeff Green then?
@justin
I didn't make it up. They have actually had discussions with Philly in which they would trade Amar'e and Barbosa for Sammy D and Iggy.
justin :@James
This argument that Jeff Green could magically become more efficient ‘if he wanted to’ is baloney. He’s just not good at anything except hitting big shots. He’s a bench player, not someone that should be getting ~40 minutes a game for a contending team. He gives it his all and is a great chemistry player, but he’s just not productive. How many excuses do you give a guy when he’s a PF scoring less efficient than most guards?
He couldn’t “easily average more points and rebounds”. We’re BAD AT THOSE THINGS. He’d score more efficiently and rebound / box out better if he could because we desperately need help in those areas.
You don't think he could grab a rebound or two a game that he now lets KD grab on the defensive end when there is noone else around? He doesn't even go after most of those right now. KD gets 90% of those rebounds. That's an easy one. He could also be more assertive on offense and score more points. Not saying he'd be any more efficient but he basically asserts himself early in each half and at the end of games. The rest of the game he defers to KD and Russ. He could score more if he asserted himself more often. No doubt about that either for me.
I wish we could have andrew bynum but he cost to much and he cant get any productivity because hes with pau gasol its not gonna work for him on that team
@Jax Raging Bile Duct
Thanks Jax. I love Jeff Green and I want him on this team at all costs. Sorry for my statement being misconstrued guys.
@James
I think you've missed clarkem's tone. The first sentence is sarcasm, which is pointing out the irony in the second sentence.
Obviously, if he really sucked, not every team in the league would want to trade for him.
@James
This argument that Jeff Green could magically become more efficient 'if he wanted to' is baloney. He's just not good at anything except hitting big shots. He's a bench player, not someone that should be getting ~40 minutes a game for a contending team. He gives it his all and is a great chemistry player, but he's just not productive. How many excuses do you give a guy when he's a PF scoring less efficient than most guards?
He couldn't "easily average more points and rebounds". We're BAD AT THOSE THINGS. He'd score more efficiently and rebound / box out better if he could because we desperately need help in those areas.
@Vega
That's a bad trade for Phoenix. Trading three starting quality players for two more expensive ones?
clarkem :@CaseyBut but here at DT we want to get rid of Green because he sucks and isn’t good for the team. The fact that we believe every team in the league would trade for him doesn’t ever surface.
Jeff Green most definitely does not suck. He is not an elite PF but he is a team first guy who doesn't mind not scoring, doesn't mind not getting the rebounds that drop in the middle of 3 Thunder players on the defensive end (that Durant and Westbrook are racing to get many times to inflate stats) and defense has gotten better this year. He could easily average more points and more rebounds if he wanted to but stats aren't his priority. The team is. His shooting percentage is down this year but it will get better.
Be careful what you wish for. Chemistry is a big reason we've made the jump we have. While I agree we need some bigger, stronger, tougher guys inside, I think Jeff will be a big part of this team for a long time. I think we'll upgrade at center before we upgrade at PF. We need to upgrade though at some point because come playoff time we will be exposed on the inside. Particularly when the reffs let it get physical.
@clarkem
Most teams like the wolves would play him at SF, which would improve his numbers. I am against trading him to the wolves though, it would help our division rival, even if al jefferson helps us.
Don't trade Green. Ever. We are so close to championship caliber I can almost taste it, and Green is exactly the sort of guy every championship team needs, either as a starter or sixth man. He's versatile, clutch, and is a good locker room guy.
Personally, unless we do that Biedrins deal, I don't expect a huge trade from us. I'm expecting a sneaky trade that catches everyone off guard. If I were Presti, I'd get in on the Amar'e trade talks as the third or fourth team. Maybe something along the lines of this:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ylb3kdw
There have been rumors of a three-team deal between Philly, Cleveland, and Phoenix; this expands that in to a four-team deal that is very good for all sides. Philly gets oodles of salary relief, a promising youngster in Hickson, a proven player in Barbosa, and we absorb Kapono's bad contract for them (The trade machine says he only has a year left, but he actually has a player option for $6 million next year, which he will certainly exercise.) Cleveland gets their man, and Phoenix gets two guys who can really help now and in to the future. Everyone knows that Iggy is really good, and Dalembert would probably improve greatly with a real point guard like Steve Nash running the show. We get Robin Lopez, who would become unnecessary for Phoenix with Dalembert on the team, in exchange for D.J. White, who would probably get much more playing time in Phoenix and really get a chance to shine, and Phoenix would also get their first-round pick back. We would have to absorb Kapono, but as far as bad contracts go, he's not too bad because he actually has one thing that he is damn good at.
I know that four-team deals are very complicated and very rare, so this is probably not going to happen, but it is a fascinating thought.
Thats all we need i think that would hurt our chemistry if we trade green if green wont be a post player he can stretch the floor he can shoot from three
Kd need a post playing defensive center to take the pressure off him jeff green can pick and pop and stretch the floor?
@clarkem
Phew... then I'm in the clear. Ha!
@Casey
But but here at DT we want to get rid of Green because he sucks and isn't good for the team. The fact that we believe every team in the league would trade for him doesn't ever surface.
I think some of you are missing the part where it says they are going to trade Al Jefferson THIS SUMMER.
We gotta slow down on these Green trade talks... I just got a road blue Jeff Green jersey for Valentine's Day. I'll be keeping the receipt on hand until Thursday I suppose.
I'd rather keep Green and wait to see what we can get in the summer..