Tibor Pleiss, 7’1 center from Germany.
With OKC’s second pick, if the Thunder hang on to it, it just doesn’t make sense to draft another American born player that would further congest the roster. Craig Brackins? Stanley Robinson? Where do those guys fit now? So Presti does what he’s proven successful at and looks to the future and drafts an international prospect.
Pleiss is a solid offensive player with an already developed mid-range game. He needs work in the post and needs to fill out a pretty lanky frame. He has the potential to being a strong, influential defender, but again, he needs some bulk. You can’t deny his size and it’s hard to teach the feathery jumper he’s already developed. He’s sort of a Nenad Krstic, but with healthy knees and the potential to develop.
I think Presti likely prefers Kevin Seraphin as an international project over Pleiss, but with Minnesota already snatching him up, the Thunder has to look at other options. And at 26, Pleiss is the best option for an international big man project. The Thunder still needs to address the shooter option, but that shouldn’t come until 32 or 51.
How fellow TrueHoopers have it shaking out:
1. Washington: John Wall
2. Philadelphia: Evan Turner
3. New Jersey: Derrick Favors
4. Minnesota: Wesley Johnson
5. Sacramento: DeMarcus Cousins
6. Golden State: Greg Monroe
7. Detroit: Epke Udoh
8. Los Angeles: Al-Farouq Aminu
9. Utah: Xavier Henry
10. Indiana: Paul George
11. New Orleans: Cole Aldrich
12. Memphis: Ed Davis
13. Toronto: Avery Bradley
14. Houston: Patrick Patterson
15. Milwaukee: Gordon Hayward
16. Minnesota: Hassan Whiteside
17. Chicago: Luke Babbitt
18. Miami: Eric Bledsoe
19. Boston: James Anderson
20. San Antonio: Damion James
21. Oklahoma City: Daniel Orton
22. Portland: Solomon Alabi
23. Minnesota: Kevin Seraphin
24. Atlanta: Larry Sanders
25. Memphis: Dominique Jones
26. Oklahoma City: Tibor Pleiss
27. New Jersey: Jordan Crawford
When raw +/- and Adjusted +/- disagree strongly for a player one of several things is happening and it is important to try to understand or guess which it is.
When you know some about the quality of teammates and subs with observation and other tools, I agree that raw +/- can usable as you say especially at finding extremes or indicating that you are probably not at an extreme.
I forgot to add that I sometimes feel that the importance of adjusting the plus/minus-numbers is a bit overstated. Sure it provides more useful stats and everyone can see the logic behind that. It's also technically difficult to do. But I don't think the raw number's aren't usable.
According to basketballvalue, out of the 30 players that top the regular season in raw +/-, 22 are top30 in 1-year-adjusted +/- too.
@Crow: I agree with all that. But a positive raw +/- for 20-year-old playing among pros on a championship team is at least not a bad sign. I personally use +/- to see if it raises a red flag or is particularly good, then watch more games to take a closer look at why it is at that level. It's clearly not usable as a player ranking. Benzing is playing on a really bad team while Ohlbrecht's backup is a fairly weak offensive player.
There were rumours midway through last season that the Raptors were bringing Stefano Mancinelli over. The guy is bottom ten in raw +/- in both the Euroleague and Italian league. That's definitely alarming.
Or there's automatically-eligible 1988-born Pietro Aradori (DX: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Pietro-Aradori-5782/playerblog/) who put up huge individual stats in the Italian league last season, but his team is -6.3 p/40 with him oncourt, +2.27 without him. That team finished second to bottom. And he played all games, didn't sit out against bad teams, unlike Evan Turner.
Raw +/- is not necessarily a great measure.
About 40 players with better raw +/- than Splitter including Daniel Santiago?
It depends a lot of teammates you play with, when you sit and how good your sub and his lineup partners are.
That is interesting Simon.
Though Koponen is way way better on raw +/- and Benzing and Olbrecht better too.
Pleiss' net +/- per 40min in the German league regular season was +2.37 (5.70 when oncourt, 3.34 when offcourt): http://www.in-the-game.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/plusminuslegabbl.jpg
No data split in offense/defense available, but he should have great influence on D. On offense he's just a functional player at this point, but has potential.
Anything can happen when David Kahn possesses the Fourth Pick. I'm praying Presti is on the phone with that guy right now.
Official measurement of Cook at the combine were
Height w/shoes Wingspan Standing Reach
6' 5.75" 6' 8.25" 8' 5.5"
Harden
6' 5.25" 6' 10.75" 8' 7.5"
CJ Watson 6th best. Will GS retain?
Very small attempts but Maynor was third best from 16-23 feet among that guard group, shooting 48% from there on less than 1 attempt per game.
@Heysloth
82 games suggests Cook played a tiny amount of SF this season but as much SF as SG in 2008-9. Not a huge difference in his individual stats. Team results were way better at SF in 08-09 but way better at SG in 09-10 so I don't know what to make of that immediately. As a rookie he was way better at SF.
Is listed at 6-5, 205.
@Heysloth
Cook probably can't play 3, but Green and Thabo could shift to the 3 depending on the rotation.
Cook was 4th worst on FG% from 16-23 feet among guards who played 40+ games and 5+ minutes a game. 26% FG%.
The best last season? Ridnour at 57% FG%.
@Heysloth
lol, isiah was good at drafting but thats it.
@Paul
i would take biedrins and the 6, even if he doesnt work out worth the risk short term
@f5alcon
Well if there is a GM in the history of the NBA that you want to emulate it has to be Isiah...
I am pretty excited about this draft... so many options. Can Cook play backup 3 or is he strictly a 2?
I would liek to see us get Anthony Randolph from the Warriors.
Assuming Monroe was available at 6 would people be willing to also take back Biedrins in a trade?
Cook's Adjusted +/- was close to neutral overall.
The factor level detail suggests he helps limit team turnovers (by jacking the shots up fast probably). He helps force more turnovers but fouls given also go up with him on the court (from gambling or what comes afterward).
@Heysloth
he probably wants 13 rookie pgs.
isiah thomas tried to stack his team with pgs that were just like him.
@f5alcon
They wanted Mem #12 pick and wanted to give back their 27th pick or whatever they have in that range. At least that's the most recent I've heard which is why Mem said no.
@The DON
The sad part is that some teams want Joe J and Gay as their starting option. But I think the Clippers could potentially miss out on everyone.
RealGM has some interesting ideas about what the Thunder will do now, including some that aren't even by OKC fans. Some think the Kings or GS are the most likely targets.
@Paul
"but not even Kahn is that stupid."
I cant wait till this actually happens... hahaha who says a team full of 13 point guards would not be any good? Has anyone ever tried it?
Cook did well as a defender. He is active taking the 3 but unclear at this point how good, as his 3 pt FG% has bounced around. He is horrible on mid-range shots (one of the worst in the league) and very rarely gets to the line.
@Paul
well he wanted memphis picks and thats why the randolph deal fell through.
Paul :@The
DON
My question is what team misses out… because there are only so many top FA’s and next to top FA’s. So somewhere someone is going to get left with cap space and no players.
Yeah, this is a fascinating summer indeed. I am guessing whoever misses out will just end up overpaying the 2nd tier guys like Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay.
My GAWD i am so excited right now about this move by Presti, because we all know he most likely does not intend to keep all 3 picks and another move or 2 are still on the way, which adds to the excitement. But whats so great is that we probably all agree that if worse comes to worse and we make no other moves from this point on, we are now in a position where at the very least we are getting up to 3 new great young prospects.
Although young prospects are not what we need right now, it's still exciting in a way.
I'm thrilled about trading the 32nd for the 18th.
Cook was obviously a throw-away for the Heat...does anyone think he's actually going to play for us? Cook is a career .358 from 3... Weaver is .348 from 3. Weaver is $1M cheaper, plays good defense and knows our system.
Seems like we would only want to keep one of these guys on the roster. Hopefully we can send Cook down the road to someone else so we could use the roster spot for an extra big (White or Mullens)
Paul :Mr. Presti-
I officially apologize for my comments made earlier today questioning why you weren’t getting deals done like CDR for a 2nd round pick. I thank you for acquiring value for this team under your amazingly watch. Now I will sit back as you continue to guide this team in a direction that is hard to argue with.
Signed-An overwhelmed fan
Thats beautiful.
Im glad everyone else is as geeked about this draft as I am. I asked for this noght off of work a month ago. I cant freaking wait.
Id love to see us trade some how to get DeMarcus Cousing while still saving one of those picks and land Whiteside. I know everyone is not a believer, but with all our options nopw, I think we must take the high risk!! IM a believer!!@Paul
f5alcon :@DXL
weaver, green and the 3 picks for #4 and jefferson?
weaver is non guaranteed if we cut him so that raises it to 12.5 and now that we have cook i think weaver is gone.
I'm not sure if Minn needs more draft picks, they already have 3 of their own and 2 of those are before we ever pick. Green I think would interest them, but I don't think there is a chance we get BOTH 4 and Jefferson, maybe one or the other, but not even Kahn is that stupid.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct
It looks like cook is just 2.1M this year. The 3.1 for next year is a qualifying offer. Chances are that the Thunder will not pick that up.
@Bob
Im sure its coming.
I think this trade deserves its own post.. doesnt it royce?
@Paul
We want to get in fron of the spurs who have similiar players targeted we could just be moving to 18
If you looked step by step at team goals and assets the Miami deal perhaps could have been unearthed ahead of time. But there were a lot of similar possibilities.
weaver, green and the 3 picks for #4 and jefferson?
@DXL
weaver is non guaranteed if we cut him so that raises it to 12.5 and now that we have cook i think weaver is gone.
@The DON
My question is what team misses out... because there are only so many top FA's and next to top FA's. So somewhere someone is going to get left with cap space and no players.
@DXL
I dont think weaver is guaranteed.
Mr. Presti-
I officially apologize for my comments made earlier today questioning why you weren't getting deals done like CDR for a 2nd round pick. I thank you for acquiring value for this team under your amazingly watch. Now I will sit back as you continue to guide this team in a direction that is hard to argue with.
Signed-
An overwhelmed fan
This is REALLY a crazy and historic summer.
All these top of the line free agents conspiring to join forces, all these teams with cap space trying to get them. Then the 2nd rate free agents like Joe Johnson & Rudy Gay. Then all the teams that don't have cap space but don't want to fall behind on the totem pole who are trying to manuever and pull off some trades. Then all these talented young teams who might make the leap with the addition of high picks this draft.
Then the teams like us who are trying to make that leap from good to great.
So many things going on.
@f5alcon
Or maybe we get it for a grape Nehi and a Serge Ibaka signed basketbal... at this point I think anything is possible
@DXL
I think this is just the first deal. Honestly, I'm not sure why he would move up 3 spots if not to make another move, there is nobody that would have been there at 18 that really wouldn't be there at 21, though it is a great deal. I just see it as a pre-courser to another move tomorrow.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2010/news/story?id=5320725
We have a 3rd 1st round pick, and a new shooting guard.
I highly doubt we keep all these first round picks. Book it: we're getting into the top 10 tomorrow night, possibly and hopefully even top 5.
@f5alcon
Pleiss said in an interview just last week that he didn't feel he was ready to contribute right now and that he knows what he has to do to get ready, but that one day he does want to play in the NBA. If he wants to play on that contract great, but I still stash him in Europe for at least 1 year, it's better than the D-League.
With Cook's 2.1 million contract and the 1.2 million cap hold for the 18th pick OKC's maximum cap space is reduced from around 15 million to around 11.7 million. Looks like a max free agent, or even David Lee, is less of a possibility.
A definite log-jam is forming on the roster. We now have 13 guaranteed contracts!
A heck of a deal, of course. At some point I thought 32 and 26 for the 18th pick would be a good deal. This is amazing!
@Jax Raging Bile Duct
haha! sorry.
Cook is a good shooter. He can be the backup of KD. Awesome trade.
If so I dont know why we would take a Anderson or Crawford.
Anyone else wondering if Cook is the shooter we're supposedly targeting?
If so, would there be a need for a Crawford or Anderson or D. Jones?
Does Cook take away our need for a backup 2?