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Tuesday Bolts – 6.15.10

by Royce Young on June 15, 2010 at 9:35 am 264 Comments

At the mayor’s convention, Mick Cornett was asked about the MAPS project. This part was interesting: “Cornett said he called NBA Commissioner David Stern the day after the Ford Center vote passed with about 62 percent in favor and apologized that 38 percent of voters didn’t approve of the plan, though Stern said it represented overwhelming support.”

The Thunder will play the Grizzlies in a preseason game Oct. 12 at the BOK Center in Tulsa. Ticket information should be coming soon.

John Wall a mix of Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose? He sounds AMAZING.

Russell Westbrook on if Ron Adams and Mo Cheeks were to leave: “A huge impact. They’re a part of what we started here, especially last year with the playoffs and things like that. I’m pretty sure they’ll make the best decisions for them and their families.”

Some rapper named J. Cole in a Q&A: “Out of the the guys currently playing in the NBA, who would you pick to use your new single “Who Dat” in an endorsement commercial? Well of course I’m going to go with LeBron, only because you know he’s a man-child. But probably more like a Chris Paul [New Orleans Hornets] since there’s a New Orleans connection. Who else? Dwyane Wade [Miami Heat] or maybe some of the new guys, they could use that. It’s kind of like a ‘I’m not all the way established’ song, but ‘watch out for me.’ Like maybe Kevin Durant [Oklahoma City Thunder] or Derrick Rose [Chicago Bulls].”

Chad Ford reported yesterday that the Pacers are after Ty Lawson or Darren Collison. There have been whisperings of Indiana looking into Eric Maynor as well for the No. 10 pick, but it looks like the Pacers may go another direction.

The architect of the brilliant “Where Amazing Happens” commercials in an interview with SLAM: “The main goal is to make engaging commercials for the people who are watching the games and TV. To lure them in and captivate them during those 30 seconds and to entertain them. The goal is to have them engaged for 30 seconds and try and make cool music out of the content from the NBA. We’re taking press conference clips that are sometimes cool but sometimes a little dull. We’ve put in a little spice to turn them into these tracks. Visually, you want to make it strong. You want to make sure you have the right plays. It takes a lot of work to find the right clips, the right dunks, the right assists and steals and blocks to utilize it. We’re talking about defense, it took some work to find the clips of the guys playing defense. There’s a visual and audio component to it. The most important part is the 30 seconds you have to hook people in and get the point across.”

Sonicsgate accepting its Webby Award with Gary Payton. Pretty cool.

Ziller surmised the top five picks of the draft may be set: “There’s been talk of both Minnesota and Sacramento dropping down or out of the top five. But if the teams stick, it looks like the first five picks of the draft could be set, with Washington taking John Wall at No. 1, Philadelphia picking either Ohio State guard Evan Turner or Favors at No. 2, the Nets taking Philadelphia’s leftover at No. 3, Johnson going to Minnesota at No. 4 and Cousins to Sacramento at No. 5.”

The Clippers are still interested in Kelvin Sampson: “The Los Angeles Clippers have put their head coaching search on hold, focusing on ways to lure free-agent in-waiting LeBron James. However, all indications are the Clippers remain interested in Bucks assistant coach Kelvin Sampson.”

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Daniel Plainview
Daniel Plainview 5pts

justin :Ibaka – Lee – Durant is a highly versatile, efficient front court that pretty much covers all the bases. The only concern would be size in the paint with Ibaka and Lee, but it’s not like we didn’t have that concern already with Krstic and Green. Really, Ibaka and Lee would probably be a better presence in the paint with some coaching and improvement in Ibaka’s defensive awareness. Even Krstic – Lee would be better than Krstic – Green considering Lee’s defensive rebounding.
On the other side of the ball, it’s no contest. Ibaka – Lee – Durant is the closest we can get to a synergistic front court offensively. Especially if Ibaka can become a consistent threat finishing in the paint.

I agree as well. Huge improvement, but not the final desire.

Keith
Keith 5pts

@The DON
I understand your point, but I disagree on two fronts. First, a 54 win team is probably the second or third seed in the East. That WOULD be a contender. Second, it makes the assumption that there is something else out there that is both better than Lee and available. I'm not singling you out, but what else is there?

There's no true center that fits our needs that could be had for less than Westbrook. There are only so many PFs better than Lee. The only one available (theoretically) is Bosh, whose likelihood of signing is minuscule at best.

@Mark!
I tend to think the passing needs to start with Brooks. The offense was, in many cases, painful to watch. The coaching staff needs not to hang their hat on defense and call it a day. They have to realize (just as every player should) that there are two ends of the floor. We could have a veritable all-star team on the court, but it wouldn't matter as long as we had such an anemic, one-dimensional offense.

And you're right on Lee. Big men with his resume don't make it to UFA like this. If not serendipitous, it is at least good opportunity.

Greg
Greg 5pts

Max we can afford to sign him without being handcuffed in the future. .

Greg
Greg 5pts

@Mark!
The fact that this is the HUGE summer class of free agents with marquee names like Bosh, Wade, LeBron, Amar'e, Boozer, Joe Johnson means that Lee is flying pretty far under the rader and won't command anything too close to max money. Any other summer and Lee would be desired by more teams, and likely earn more money. That's yet another one of the reasons it makes sense to sign him, the timing is right. Speaking of timing, our cap space is right as well. What's the max we can afford to offer Lee? 14 mil a year?

Mark!
Mark! 5pts

@The DON

Who do you want us to save our money for? I dunno if I've ever heard your thoughts on it. I've only ever heard your criticisms of other ideas.

Mark!
Mark! 5pts

@Keith

I agree with you.

Your list of priorities is interesting; I agree w/ everything except the passing. I would probably exclude that from the list altogether. Not because I don't think we need it, but I think that improvement has to come from within whereas the others probably need to come from outside.

Our high USG guys need to be better passers... or rather KD needs to become a better passer. He doesn't have to become a point forward like Odom or Lebron, but he still needs to improve. Him alone working on his passing will help our team passing IMO.

And of course, adding a high USG guy like Lee that's a decent passer would help too. But not as much as KD improving that part of his game.

I'm confident that improvement will happen. I'm not worried about it in the least.

The interesting thing about David Lee is the situation he's in. Gasol, Howard, Horford... those guys are all going to have large offers from their current team's on the table when they come up for free agency. Or rather Howard and Horford will; that has *already* happened for Gasol.

Lee was left w/o an offer and won't be getting one until late in the summer from NYK if he waits. And it has nothing to do w/ him. He's a well liked player w/ a strong work ethic. NYK is just chasing a publicity stunt and has neglected a quality player on their own roster. If this summer free agency wasn't so bananas, I guarantee Lee would've already hammered things out with NYK.

How often do situations like that happen? Seems serendipitous to me.

The DON
The DON 5pts

@Keith

Lee helps this team in making a leap from 50 wns to maybe 54 wins. He does nothing to make us contenders. But what he does do is prevent us from using the money we'd spend on him on someone that COULD make us contenders.

So that's why nothing is better than getting Lee. Not because what we already have is better.

Keith
Keith 5pts

Thunder's needs going forward: efficient offensive player in high usage (take pressure off KD, who is our ONLY real threat), defensive rebounder, floor-spacing shooter, more passing/movement in the offense, improved defense at PF spot.

It seems to be quickly forgotten that Green was a terrible defender last year. It seems to be forgotten that despite that, we were one of the best defenses in the league. It seems to be forgotten that the vast majority of games that we lost were a direct result of our offense failing us. It seems to be forgotten that David Lee was a deserving all-star last year. It seems to be forgotten that no team has won a championship without a big man twice as good as anyone on the current roster. It seems to be forgotten that development is not a guarantee, and that no one outside of Kevin Durant is definitely going to be a star.

I'm not saying David Lee is my first choice (he's not, actually), but people saying they would rather have nothing than Lee don't know basketball. If Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, or even Al Horford were on the market, no one would be talking about David Lee. But they're not, and Lee is. This team has a chance to take the next step, from playoff Cinderella to championship contender. Lee could help this team make that leap. How many players that are available can the Thunder say that about?

Mark!
Mark! 5pts

@justin

Here's that Thabo clip, btw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUwdpOScSXc

Mark!
Mark! 5pts

@justin

I'm not going to sit here and defend Lee as being a good defender because he hasn't shown that.

But that particular clip looks like it was Harrington's fault. Chandler lost Pierce on the screen, Lee showed help, Harrington just stood around in the paint guarding air.

Which has a lot more to do w/ coaching than anything. Our coaches coached switching to death. It lead to some exploitable (and predictable) matchups, but at least players were rarely left open. I have a heard time believing Lee would join our team and obstinately refuse to play defense. Does he really come across as that type of player to anyone?

justin
justin 5pts

Bob :

Anonymous :We don’t need Lee,I think DJ White would be just as productive with more minutes.

Thats what i said about a week ago. justin just started that David Lee bandwagon because he must be related to him or something. For those who havent seen David Lee (not) play defense… here’s a nice example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijnfmentda8

Hold up and I'll find the video of Jason Richardson blowing by Thabo to win a huge game, Thabo must be a poor defender, right?

justin
justin 5pts

@The Hitman

We were among the top teams in blocks this year, why do we need more of that?

Mark!
Mark! 5pts

@The Hitman

Looks like we disagree on some minor points and that has lead us to different conclusions.

Bob
Bob 5pts

Anonymous :
We don’t need Lee,I think DJ White would be just as productive with more minutes.

Thats what i said about a week ago. justin just started that David Lee bandwagon because he must be related to him or something. For those who havent seen David Lee (not) play defense... here's a nice example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ijnfmentda8

The Hitman
The Hitman 5pts

@Mark!

I don't think Lee is a long term piece that will really make a massive difference to the team. He is a good passer, a good defensive rebounder and has decent touch but I don't think he is the missing piece.

What I think is missing amongst the posters here is patience. This team will not win the NBA title in the next 2 years. We have to select someone who will fit the overall team philosophy and will grow with the team by peaking in 2 -3 years time.

I can see Ibaka being part of the starting line up. He just oozes the qualities of being a winner. I would not discount him as a centre yet although only in certain line ups against certain teams.

The major missing piece is a decent passing post player who can block shots. Why waste money on Lee who is neither a post player nor a shot blocker? I would rather gamble on choosing some bigs later in the first round.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@The DON
in the post is lee a worse defender then green? That is who he will replace in the lineup. We would hopefully pair him with a defensive center in the draft or trade. Finding a defense only center is easier and cheaper then trying to find a two way center that answers all our problems all at once. By himself lee only makes us aversion of the cavs, great regular season team and average postseason, but he eliminates half the teams needs(defensive rebounding and scoring) the other two being 3 pt shooting and defensive post presence. But those are needs that we can draft even late in the draft.

Anonymous :@f5alcon

You are always the voice of reason on this board. You are right KG and Duncan are not FA’s, but to run a guy off the board because he doesnt agree with you is just wrong. (not saying you personally) Lee is only a top 7 pf in the league because the league is short on good pf’s.

I am from New York, i have NY attitude when i get into a discussion, I try to be fair and back up my arguments with people with facts. Sometimes I am a bit blunt and pushy and sometimes rude, recently bob and paul have been on the end of it, but i have nothing against anybody on this board and i would rather be a peacekeeper then a instigator. Really unless somebody attacks me or is trolling im gonna hold back and not rip them a new one.

justin
justin 5pts

Ibaka - Lee - Durant is a highly versatile, efficient front court that pretty much covers all the bases. The only concern would be size in the paint with Ibaka and Lee, but it's not like we didn't have that concern already with Krstic and Green. Really, Ibaka and Lee would probably be a better presence in the paint with some coaching and improvement in Ibaka's defensive awareness. Even Krstic - Lee would be better than Krstic - Green considering Lee's defensive rebounding.

On the other side of the ball, it's no contest. Ibaka - Lee - Durant is the closest we can get to a synergistic front court offensively. Especially if Ibaka can become a consistent threat finishing in the paint.

justin
justin 5pts

The DON :Again, Lee is the white version of Al Jefferson minus any post-up game
He is a low budget version of Jefferson
Jefferson is not the answer to what we need, but the counterfeit, low budget, white version of him is?

Lee is a better rebounder than Al Jefferson and a significantly better passer. He's superior in the pick and roll, and has better range on his jumper. He's also a better free throw shooter, and much more efficient scorer. The only thing Al Jefferson does that David Lee does not is create his own points, and we already got a guy who can do that pretty well.

Lee and Jefferson really are nothing alike. I don't get how you can even come to that conclusion from watching them. Jefferson's a low post guy who's going to put up a lot of shots and be the focus of an offense. Lee is someone who is more versatile, who can play the pick and roll, shoot from the outside, and create offense for others with his passing - i.e. the perfect complimentary weapon offensively for a team that has a number one option.

Explain how Lee is a 'low budget' Al Jefferson. Even though both were number one options on fast paced teams (Minnesota was faster than New York), Lee was far more productive. If anything, Al Jefferson was the low budget David Lee.

David Lee put up 22 points and 12 rebounds against the Lakers this year on 53% shooting as the primary option. Pau Gasol put up 15 and 12. Although the Lakers won both those games, it was clearly not due to Gasol's dominance over David Lee - who performed much better than any of our guys did against the Lakers this year save Russell Westbrook.

Honestly, even though you claim otherwise, I get a very strong impression you have not seen much of David Lee. Yes, there are legitimate questions about his defense, but I don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that he's not the ideal type of fit for our offense.

Mark!
Mark! 5pts

@The DON

I agree.

But I don't see acquiring Lee as the one piece that's going to us over the top next year. I think he's a player that fills some of the gaps around Westbrook and Durant.

I want Green moved out of the frontcourt altogether. If we're going to keep him, then I guess the ideal solution is to have almost all of Green's minutes come at SF and have Durant split his time between SG and SF. Thabo would be the big loser here. We'll see what happens with Green. That picture will be clearer after contract negotiations start this summer.

Krstic isn't anyone's long term solution at C is he? I'm hoping we get a center in the draft either this year or next year that can play decent man defense. Alabi sounds like a good candidate, but I'm not interested in particular names. I don't watch enough college ball to know. I just know that defensive prospects have been found in our draft range in the past and there are several prospects in the draft. I hope we hit one.

I dunno if Ibaka will ever be a starter, but I definitely want to see his minutes jacked up. With Green out of the frontcourt and w/o a top 10 player at C, Ibaka should get plenty of minutes even if he comes off the bench.

I don't expect all this to happen next year. I imagine it'll be 2-3 seasons before things start to come together.

The DON
The DON 5pts

I have watched Lee against the likes of Gasol and other premier PF's and he looked as bad as Kristic did against them.

That is the solution to our needs? A frontcourt of him, green and kristic would be the worst defensive frontcourt maybe of all time

The DON
The DON 5pts

Again, Lee is the white version of Al Jefferson minus any post-up game

He is a low budget version of Jefferson

Jefferson is not the answer to what we need, but the counterfeit, low budget, white version of him is?

Mark!
Mark! 5pts

What are empty points?

I've always heard that in reference to either:

A) the losing team running up points against the other teams scrubs in a blow out to make the final score look better than it was

B) putting up a lot of points but not putting up anything else (rebounds, assists, etc.)

C) putting up a lot of points w/ a terrible percentage

Lee's stats don't fit any of those. B & C are easy to check. I checked his quarter splits on SI; nothing abnormal to show there. Pretty consistent when winning, losing, across quarters, etc.

justin
justin 5pts

@The DON

What are 'empty points and rebounds'? Why do Lee's not count?

Aside from the usual re-hashing, I can assure you I've seen more of David Lee over his career. The guy's one of the hardest workers in the game and will do what's asked of him. It's not his fault he's played on teams that neglected defense. We've all seen what a shift in philosophy can do for poor defensive players (Durant, Green, Krstic all average to good defenders this year) when they are hard workers.

What are our needs, The DON?

The DON
The DON 5pts

Ok, I tried to stay out of this but I cannot take this any longer....

DAVID LEE IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE ANSWER TO OUR NEEDS

If any of you guys have actually watched this guy play extensively like I have on league-pass you would know that he is one of, if not THE worst defensive players this league has ever seen. He is simply horrific.

He is essentially the white Al Jefferson. He gets those empty points & rebounds stats on paper that look so good but if you invest some time in actually watching him in games you would know that this guy is NOT someone that is ever gonna put you over the top in playoff series.

I hope to god we do not get him, and if we do, it better not be for any more than $6 million per year.

*rant over*

The DON
The DON 5pts

Frootloop :
John Wall is a combination of Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, golden caramel, and vanilla nougat!
That’s one delicious basketball player!

PAUSE!!!!!

Keith
Keith 5pts

The Thunder were a rebound away from pushing the Lakers to 7. Lee is great at grabbing rebounds. The Thunder lost many games because they couldn't score at the right time. Lee is a pretty darn good scorer. The difference between 50 and 52 (your 2 win projection) is the difference between 8th place and 6th place. But, if we take Wins added as something more akin to what should be expected, Lee is actually 4 games better than Green at least. The difference between 50 wins and 54 wins is the difference between 8th place and 3rd place in the West. Pretty sizable difference I would say.

Warren
Warren 5pts

@Frootloop

Someone calling themselves frootloop talking about an adult discussion. hahaha. Thats awesome!!! Get 'em!!!

How do you guys think a guy like Lee would effect Krstic? Do you think it would make him more productive?

Thomas
Thomas 5pts

According to Basketball Prospectus, David Lee's wins added was 6.2 in 2010 and 7.1 in 2009. 2 is a bit of a low number.

Assuming the Thunder's core group isn't as ridiculously healthy as they were last year, his benefit would be massive on a team without much depth.

Frootloop
Frootloop 5pts

@Anonymous
No need to be sorry. I'm just trying to help you learn how to have a rational discussion with adults. Don't take it personally.

Frootloop
Frootloop 5pts

@Anonymous
"I just think you fat and dumb guys are over rating a guy because he can rebound and score. There are 2 ends to a court incase none of ya’ll ever dun seen a court."

If you want people to listen earnestly, this may not be the best approach.

Keith
Keith 5pts

@Anonymous
Just to add, Lee being a RFA last year had everything to do with him not getting a different deal. NY would have matched any offer. If it interfered with their plans this year, they could have easily traded him for other valuable assets. Lee chose the one year deal in order to reach UFA status sooner and thus pick his team.

Also, the Knicks didn't try to get anything of value for him (trade him) because he was the, by far, best player on their team. Teams trading for him would have known he could leave in the offseason (greatly increasing their risk), and NY would have asked for far too much value in return. NY want to keep Lee if they strike out with other max players. They can't do that if they trade him away.

justin
justin 5pts

@Anonymous

First off, the Knicks have not let David Lee go yet.

Second, should the Knicks choose to let David Lee walk it will be to pursue higher quality players such as: Chris Bosh, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, etc. The Knicks may value Carlos Boozer and Amar'e Stoudemire more highly than Lee as well - maybe even Joe Johnson. The Knicks have more than enough cap pace to re-sign David Lee should one or more of those targets fall through which brings us to...

Third, the Knicks gave David Lee a much higher qualifying offer than they had to ($7 million) last offseason. Why did they do this? Maybe out of the goodness of their own hearts, but more likely because they know that should they strike out on the higher tier big targets they might want to re-sign David Lee.

justin
justin 5pts

@Anonymous

PF is the most productive position in the NBA. A top 7, 5, 10 PF is highly valuable in any era.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@Anonymous
Lee is replacing green in the lineup who isnt a good defender either. Its not a step down on defense. and a huge step up on offense and rebounding. It isnt like garnett is a FA that we can get, or duncan.

Frootloop
Frootloop 5pts

John Wall is a combination of Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, golden caramel, and vanilla nougat!

That's one delicious basketball player!

Mark!
Mark! 5pts

Why address an anonymous poster who's obviously trolling?

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@Anonymous
they were not going to sign him last year because they wanted cap space for this year, at the time they only had room for 1 max free agent and lee would have made it impossible to get lebron.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

i mean dont get me wrong i think the odds of us signing lee are less then 30%, but the odds of him staying with the knicks are pretty low as well, i think the most likely place is NJ if they get turner, then they have harris, courtney lee/turner, FA SF, lee, lopez

Stephen
Stephen 5pts

David Lee? Yes, please. Proven 4 that rebounds well and is an efficient scorer. Better fit than Bosh IMO as well. We get to keep our picks + assets and use them to come out of the draft with one good big man and one good shooter, too? Sign me up.

I also don't see how someone thinks Kevin Love is a good fit, but would then spend so much time mocking David Lee.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@Anonymous
Well its not really up to the knicks, Lee is an unrestricted free agent he can sign anywhere he wants, if he wants to sign with the lakers or celtics or cavs he could nothing the knicks can do to stop him from leaving except offer him more money.

justin
justin 5pts

@Anonymous

Don't be obtuse. LeBron, Wade, Bosh, and maybe Boozer / Stoudemire are all higher on Knicks list than David Lee. They'll also happily re-sign Lee if they strike out on the big men.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@justin
ok that makes more sense,

@Anonymous
well if they get Bosh then lee is not needed.

Kev
Kev 5pts

Greg :I think drafting BPA with your first pick is a bad idea when the only big men you have under contract the following season are : Serge Ibaka, DJ White, and Byron Mullens.
Our first pick will be spent on a big man, there’s no question. Whether it’s Monroe, Orton, Seraphin, Whiteside, Sanders, Alabi, is tbd. ONE of those big guys will be available at 21 or wherever we decide to trade up.

Drafting BPA is usually a good idea regardless - too many busts are drafted based on need . . .

PNT
PNT 5pts

@f5alcon
Maybe it's because they could not get the right deal in exchange for Amar'e before the deadline?

justin
justin 5pts

@f5alcon

I don't think he was fired... his contract is up and reportedly Sarver was going to ask him to take a pay cut.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

i dont see why kerr was fired, they did much better then expected, made the conference finals, dumped shaq.

Greg
Greg 5pts

@justin
If only they could have sucked sooner. . .

justin
justin 5pts

Kerr leaving the Suns probably means Amar'e is gone, which means the Suns might stink, which is great news for us.

Greg
Greg 5pts

@ThunderHorn
Maybe to replace the new GM Charles Barkley! LOL @ Chuck

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

No, there probably won't be minutes left for Anderson. I'm saying that if all the bigs are gone and we have to draft the BPA, then we take Anderson if he's there.

If Portland trades up and not a single big man falls to us, I think we take the BPA (Bradley, Anderson), trade for a future first, and target Pleiss or Jerome Jordan or Dexter Pittman in the second round.

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