Where IS the love Steve Francis?

Francis had one of the quickest declines I've ever seen...near-allstar to not even in the league within a couple years

Amen. Stevie "Franchise" just never got it. That's why he's sitting around, ignored and ringless.

-Vancouver has mild winters (not much snow or freezing temperatures).
-Drinking age is 19.
-Hockey is biggest draw in a city, basketball stars could enjoy a privacy.
-In multicultural environment that Vancouver is, nobody cares about color of your skin.
-Players pay taxis in US for number of days spent there (more than half).

Ps..really don't mean to come accross harsh. Just very proud of where I come from.

@jfalc...I'm surprised by your ignorance of Canada. Mike Bibby gave a similar reaction to getting drafted by Vancouver, occluded without the trade demand, and ended up loving his time there. Vince Carter, Charles Oakley, and other players chose to resign in Toronto when the opportunity to leave came. Vancouver was never given a chance to succeed be because the quality of the team was always so poor. Toronto is the 4th largest city in North America. Foriegn laws?? Taxes?? Those are excuses for ignorance to allow one to shun a world class city. If you know Canada and don't like it, fair enough, but I absolutely cannot respect an uninformed opinion. I know you wouldn't when it comes to your home...atleast I wouldn't expect you to.

Okay, I agree with everything said in your article. I am no fan of Steve Francis or the likes of him, and I think to publicly pout is wrong but....

From a player perspective it would be hard to swallow that you have to live and play in a foreign country -- with different laws and potentially oppressive taxation (not sure about the taxation issue but likely a huge drawback). Even the money issue. Do the Canadian teams pay you in foreign currency?...likely they do.

I believe the NBA's hurried venture into Canada was a huge misstep by Commish David Stern.

At the time it appeared to me to be a rushed rash decision so Stern could have his fiftieth anniversary game played between a Toronto franchise and a NY franchise (like the inaugural NBA game in 1946).

I don' think it has worked out at all. Vancouver moved and no one in the NBA wants to be on the Raptors (understandably). I would guess that, even with the Clippers as awful as they are as a franchise, Vancouver would rank as the least desirable place to play by NBA players. (Maybe Minnesota too!)

Steve Francis is a bum. He always will be a bum. I was never a fan of him. But this whole Canadian thing was a bad idea to begin with.

Legit post bro.

@justin

When did Kobe or Shaquille force a trade? Kobe was traded as a rookie, he was essentially picked by Charlotte for LA. Shaquille joined LA as a free agent and was sent to Miami because he was petulant, but not because he asked for a trade.

yall all are trippin he didnt want to go to Vancouver because of his grandmother...im from DC and he is one of the best players i have seen play and i seen them all from NBA players to hood dudes yall will never hear from...i also went to san jac in texas...he went from a noname player to one of the best players in the country in one year...he didnt even play high school basketball...name a top player who never played high school basketball....nuff said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kevin Durant is the best player out of DC/MD since Bias period. I think Jeff Green, Ty Lawson, and possibly Josh Selby will have better careers in the NBA then Stevie

Sure, most people get to choose exactly where they work. For example, if my chosen profession is to be a mechanic, I can sign on to work at any garage that's willing to hire my services. The NBA, however, is different. If you sign up to play basketball in the NBA, you forfeit a few freedoms, one of those is that you might not get to choose where you begin your career. There are other organizations outside of sports where employees also do not control where they work: the armed forces, the peace corps, some temp agencies, etc. What happens if a soldier pouts the way Francis did because he didn't like where he was to be deployed?
Steve Francis had lots of choices in 1999. He could have played basketball in a league that did not have a draft. He could have found a regular job. He could have completed his education and gone on to grad school. However, by declaring for the NBA draft, he agreed to follow the NBA's rules. It's not too much to ask someone who's going to be paid millions of dollars to follow the rules and play where he's supposed to.
I'm a realist and I understand that power usually wins out despite the rules, and that talented players have the power to influence where they end up getting drafted. But that doesn't make it right, it doesn't mean that Steve Francis and other professional athletes who have done this, such as Eli Manning and Ricky Rubio, aren't being humongous jerks when they refuse to play for the team that drafted them.
The attention is on Francis because after beginning his career by being a humongous jerk to the Grizzlys, and continuing to be such an a-hole his entire career that, for all his amazing talents, most teams wanted nothing to do with him, he wonders (apparently without irony) why nobody likes him now.

Sorry, but the Kobe trade "demand" was totally different. Kobe's agent worked out a trade pre-draft because Charlotte *wanted* a big man rather than a wing. It was only after Divac initially refused to be traded from the Lakers did Kobe go public, rightly so because he had worked out a deal with the Hornets prior to the draft that he would be sent to the Lakers. They had promised him that he would be going to the Lakers in return for his and his agent's help in constructing the Divac deal. This is not the same as the Francis situation. There was no moping. The trade eventually went through exactly as the Hornets had hoped pre-draft.

Keith :@justinI’m surprised you are so pro-player here. I don’t think the players always get a fair shake, but at the same time they are as much employees as entertainers. They, like everyone, SHOULD be held accountable to things they sign or decide. And no, rookies don’t have much say at all, but it has to be that way. The league supersedes the individuals. If Lebron had a career ending injury tomorrow, the league would still go on and survive. Letting rookies choose where they go is just silly. If you are a great organization, FAs will flock to you anyway. It ruins the league for all the best rookies to go to the same teams as well.

You don't let rookies choose where they want to go, but the really good ones are obviously able to sway the decision making a bit even without saying a word (i.e. refusing to work out with certain teams). I wouldn't support a system where rookies can choose their teams explicitly, and that's never really happened except in Kobe Bryant's case I think. But I don't have a problem, really, with a guy saying "hey, I don't want to play here" and letting that team know that. Either by telling them or not working out with them; a lot of the time this is just done through the agent. That's just not a big deal to me.

justin :Roger Mason got a one year, $1.4 million deal. He has some PG skills. I think he would have been better than Royal Ivey as an acquisition…

No matter who we signed for the 3rd PG, they won't see the floor. Ivey brings a defensive presence that could better the development of Westbrook, Maynor, and Harden defensively. We already have our old and expired spot up shooter who likely won't see the floor - Mo Pete. Don't think we need two.

@justin
I'm surprised you are so pro-player here. I don't think the players always get a fair shake, but at the same time they are as much employees as entertainers. They, like everyone, SHOULD be held accountable to things they sign or decide. And no, rookies don't have much say at all, but it has to be that way. The league supersedes the individuals. If Lebron had a career ending injury tomorrow, the league would still go on and survive. Letting rookies choose where they go is just silly. If you are a great organization, FAs will flock to you anyway. It ruins the league for all the best rookies to go to the same teams as well.

Roger Mason got a one year, $1.4 million deal. He has some PG skills. I think he would have been better than Royal Ivey as an acquisition...

But with the exception of their rookie contract these players have the right to choose where they want to play, and ultimately how long they play there for. How can that be conceived as powerless? That's complete control of your destiny. I just don't see what's so wrong about people honoring their contracts. I'm not trying to say these players should be forced to stay in deplorable conditions, but really how many of them are?

@Greg
magic johnson did... he said in national news that is the bulls (a crappy team at the time) won his draft rights instead of the lakers (a good team) he would stay in college to avoid having to play for the bulls. Ok so its not demanding a trade...but equally sleezy in my opinion.

Brad :@justinWe just view this issue from completely different angles, doubt we’ll ever see it 100% eye to eye and that’s fine. Personally, when you’re a proffesional athlete (basketball player in this case), you’re going to be famous and you’re going to be comfortable (from my perspective). I’m all for players exercising their right to choose teams in free agency, but when you’re drafted you don’t have a choice where you go and once you sign with a team for X amount of years, you play there unless traded.

Clay Bennett, is this you? :)

This statement feels wrong to me, because obviously many players are not comfortable with their circumstances as professional athletes - or none of them would demand trades or refuse to play in certain cities. But in the end, as George Carlin always pointed out, the athletes are the only ones in the equation who have any real importance. You're not going to be able to strip all their power away from them, even if the scum of the Earth (owners) would like nothing more. Even if you are under contract or bound to terms of a collective bargaining agreement (i.e. you're drafted by a team), I think athletes should have some kind of power over where they end up. Especially if they are hot commodities. I suppose we can agree to disagree.

You'd make a good owner!

It's too bad the Vancouver franchise didn't survive. All of us in Seattle at the time sort of hoped for a good rivalry with the Griz up north and the Blazers down south, but it never panned out.

Vancouver is a really fun and interesting city. It would be great if it could get it's NBA mojo back.

@justin
We just view this issue from completely different angles, doubt we'll ever see it 100% eye to eye and that's fine. Personally, when you're a proffesional athlete (basketball player in this case), you're going to be famous and you're going to be comfortable (from my perspective). I'm all for players exercising their right to choose teams in free agency, but when you're drafted you don't have a choice where you go and once you sign with a team for X amount of years, you play there unless traded.

Steve Francis is plain and simply an asshole.That about sums this guy up.

"Stevie Francis? Who's he? Now Kevin Durant, him I know about. But Stevie Francis? Never heard of him." (Excerpt from a karma-influenced conversation in the far distant future.)

The irony is that Francis was last with the Grizzlies (albeit in Memphis) before he got cut not long into his tenure. Poetic justice.

I remember he tried to cite the fact that Vancouver is so far from his home as a reason why he didn't want to be there. More ridiculous than Ricky Rubio's reasoning that he didn't want to go to Minnesota because he didn't want his mom in cold weather. Buy that bitch a sweater.

@Justin

Exactly, look at Rubio. He told Memphis he wouldn't play there and is refusing to play for Minnesota by Staying overseas till their rights are up

Brad :@justinThat was the main point of Joel’s though, that what’s the norm for these NBA players shouldn’t be the case. That Durant acting like an average or decent guy is somehow viewed exceptional is (at least to me) a sign pointing to a bigger problem in this league.

Players have a lot of power in the NBA in large part because the NBA does a whole lot to market their star players. More than the NFL and MLB combined. If anything, the league (and media) has encouraged this behavior.

I know where you're coming from and I've lived through a franchise destroying player demanded trade (Shawn Kemp). I do think the players have a right to exercise their influence if it's available to them, though. As someone stated earlier by citing Chris Paul, it can be done with class and tact. I won't disagree that Steve Francis was a crybaby and handled the situation poorly, but I don't think the desire on his part to avoid Vancouver was inherently wrong.

Some players genuinely don't care about winning as much as money or fame or comfort. Maybe Francis wanted to be comfortable. That's his decision. Obviously, that's not conducive to winning, but it doesn't automatically make him a villain...

@justin

I suppose that's a fair enough opinion on your part. I'm not one to say it's wrong.

In my opinion I just think that it's sad that someone would judge something that quick without giving it a chance. And I don't think that is the "standard" in basketball these days. Usually trade demands are made a few years into the contract when a player can rightfully judge whether an organization is doing everything it can to put the best team on the court.

From what I've been able to read about it, he just assumed Vancouver was a small town where exposure would be limited. And Francis was banking on BIG bucks in endorsements. KD is proving now that you don't need to play in New York or LA to get endorsements. So it just seems pathetic to judge a city/franchise like that without ever taking a chance.

@justin
That was the main point of Joel's though, that what's the norm for these NBA players shouldn't be the case. That Durant acting like an average or decent guy is somehow viewed exceptional is (at least to me) a sign pointing to a bigger problem in this league.

Brad :@justinThat’s just it, when you’re drafted to a team it’s not your decision.

Lots of these type of scenarios don't play out because players have in the past made it very well known they don't want to play certain places. They won't work out with certain teams they don't want to go to, and a lot of the time the team won't draft them. Just this year, Demarcus Cousins refused to work out with GSW in case he fell there.

Wasn't the press really emphatic at the time that Francis would not play in Vancouver? Especially during that era, players have some control over where they end up even in a situation like the NBA draft where it's not explicit... Francis was a baby about it, but Vancouver knew he didn't want to play there.

@justin
That's just it, when you're drafted to a team it's not your decision.

Greg :Who is more of a joke at this point – Franchise or Starburry?

Marbury, by far. Francis hasn't gotten on camera live eating vaseline yet...

@Clifton

I think the important qualifier in Francis' statement is 'since Len Bias'. There are DC players before Len Bias that are far better than Francis i.e. Elgin Baylor, Adrian Dantley, David Bing. Maybe even Thurl Bailey if you value his longevity.

Here is an interesting article on Len Bias and what he could have been. I agree with its conclusion: http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=4011

Who is more of a joke at this point - Franchise or Starburry?

I think if he puts himself as #2 behind Len Bias in DC hoops history, he needs to know it's a list of "Most TRAGIC Figures in DC Hoops", not a list of the greatest ever. He was a highlight-driven player whose numbers were to be expected from a guy who held the ball for 48 minutes. I mean no disrespect to Bias (RIP), who would've no doubt been one of the NBA's greats if alive, but Francis is ignorant to not realize that Durant dominated in 1 year of college at a level it took Bias three years to reach. Both of them accomplished enough in college to be considerably more valuable than Stevie even in his "Franchise" days.

It's sad when you've got to be that ignorant to keep your ego inflated...

@Mike

Francis is a crybaby. No argument from me.

@Brian

You don't see why because you're not a 19/20 year old basketball star. I've never really had a problem with players not wanting to play in certain cities. It's their decision. Francis is a bum for other reasons, but so many players have demanded trades and spurned cities that it seems ridiculous to call anyone out on that behavior. It's been standard in the NBA for decades. Guys like Tim Duncan and Kevin Durant are the exceptions...

Spot on article. The point is not whether or not he forced a trade, as he had a right to try to improve his career, the issue is that he openly moped about it at a highly documented moment that would be forever memorialized. This was evidence of his immaturity and selfishness. Chris Paul is demanding a trade, but doing it more behind the scenes and with more class. And the second issue is that he never did anything with his talent ! What scoring MVP did he get ? What playoff victories did he get ? I think me made it to the second round 1 time... He started poor, he accomplished a poor amount, and he left poorly. And I really liked his potential and was rooting for his game to develop when he played !

Also, that could seem like a shot at OKC. Wasn't trying to make it seem that way. Just a comparison because I figure most people who read this blog are from that area and it would make more sense that way.

All I have seen are photos of the city as well, so that's just what I am comparing it to on a basic level. And really, that's all Francis would have been able to see of Vancouver.

I don't see why he wouldn't want to play for Vancouver. If you're a great player, you're going to get drafted to a bad/young/inexperienced team. I'd assume he'd want to be a part of a rebuilding process. Granted, I don't remember the whole state of the franchise, but wasn't it their first year?

And Vancouver is an awesome city. I live in Seattle and have made my way up there a few times. No offense to OKC, but I guarantee that just by reputation and aesthetic looks it would be a more desirable place to live/play for someone looking to play in a "bigger market."

Always playing devils advocate eh Justin?

Also, Twitter is all fouled up right now, but KD's twitter remarks on the subject say all that really needs to be said.

I'm paraphrasing, but he basically said to let that he appreciates Francis' contributions but that he should just let the young fellas do their thing....

justin :So I guess you hate Kobe Bryant, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O’neal, Bill Walton, and the dozens of other NBA stars who forced trades to another team?
Not saying Francis wasn’t a selfish guy / player, because he was, but I don’t think it’s because he didn’t want to play for Vancouver. Can you blame him?

With the exception of Kobe, which of those players demanded a trade before they even played a game for the team they were drafted by?

Right on.

Definitely blame anyone who pouts about where they get drafted. It demonstrates a lack of understanding - any normal person would be thrilled to play basketball for millions of dollars anywhere.

All I can really say is: Thanks, Steve Francis, for giving us one more way to contrast Kevin with the sea of selfish punks who take their talents, careers and fans for granted.

When all is said and done, Steve Francis will be a footnote to D.C. basketball history.

So I guess you hate Kobe Bryant, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'neal, Bill Walton, and the dozens of other NBA stars who forced trades to another team?

Not saying Francis wasn't a selfish guy / player, because he was, but I don't think it's because he didn't want to play for Vancouver. Can you blame him?