Unsolicited advice for Oklahoma City fans tiring of Seattle’s vitriol

Bubba, Seattle is already soooo over this. I would think 99.9% of northwesterners gave up on this 3 years ago. With the NFL, MLB, WNBA (champs in 2010) tread-setting MLS, Div 1 sports and outdoor sporting ops up the ying yang during decent weather why would the NBA even draw attention to the majority of Seattle area residents in the big picture? Welcome to comparison to a major league city obesity/backward politico/redneck land! You do not even measure! With the wonderful Kevin Durant and Co or not, you are irrevelant to them.. go away. Have a brisket and beer.. again.. and bleep off!

The NBA did indeed send a message to the world, but it's the opposite message they tried to send. The NBA has no problem breaking the leases they sign. If you're a city dumb enough to sign a long-term lease with these dirt bags, gawd help you. Because the legal paperwork means nothing to these guys. THAT is the message sent! Seattle built a brand new arena for the Sonics in 1994, but by 2002 they were back whining about wanting another new arena. What city, I ask you, would put up with THAT crap??!?

See most of the reason Sonic fans are still ticked off about the move of the Sonics, is the way in which Stern and Bennentt constantly lied about Key Arena. They were backstabbing the community and then lying about it, and apparently (judging from the above comments) getting away with it. The stadium was built in 1994, not 1962. The only remaining part of the original building were four rafters and part of the upper bowl. The rest of the facility was completely rebuilt and as David Stern lied to the nation during his infamous press conference, Stern knew too that he was attempting to break a lease on an arena that was a mere decade old. Yes the fans of OKC were told other things to justify moving the team, very little of which was accurate. The fact is the arena was the first of the three sports projects built for professional sports teams in Seattle, at great expense to the taxpayers, and the NBA screwed over Seattle. Obviously the Seattle fans were mad, in the same way ANYONE would be mad from being scammed. If you made a $20,000 deposit on a new house, and then the builder took your money and sold it to someone else, you'd be mad about that and rightly so! Well, that's what happened in Seattle. We made the investment, and those who signed the deal to get that investment back-stabbed the city by weasling out of the lease they had signed. Or tried to weasle out of it until the city sued them over it.

The argument that "the footprint isn't big enough" never made any sense at all, since the only reason a footprint would be bigger is to allow a hockey arena under the basketball court. Why, we all asked, would the NBA demand a hockey arena be under their basketball floor?!?

Why did Seattle react the way they did? Because they watched Clay Bennett and David Stern lie to the nation and accuse Seattle of not supporting a team that they had just built a new arena for and had a track record of sold out games. It was the lying by Stern & Bennett that ticked off the Seattle Fans. It's been two years now. The longer Seattle goes without a team, it appears the more angry the people of Seattle burn towards the hated Stern, so the old addage that "time heals" is incorrect in this case. Time makes Seattle fans more angry, not less.

The lesson? Don't trust David Stern or the NBA. Don't build them an arena when they demand one. They screwed over Seattle, no doubt they'll screw you too whenever it suits them. Don't let them do that to you. Demand money up-front, just like a bank would do to a person that defaulted on a mortgage.

Joe :Don’t forget btw that Russ Westbrook, Serge Ibaka and D.J.White were all drafted by or traded to the Sonics, before the move, and Kyle Weaver also before there was a “Thunder” team.
So along with KD, Green and Collison, 5 players in the current 9 man rotation still have ties to the Sonics.

Don't forget that Westbrook, Ibaka and DJ White never played a single second of Basketball in Seattle.

They have as much of a tie to the Seattle SuperSonics as John Elway does to the Baltimore Colts.

First off, let me state that although I was (and still am) very much against the, ahem, hijacking of the Seattle Supersonics away from its city and its fans, I remain very supportive of the new organization in OKC. I wish the new team well for its future, even if I have to call them the Zombie Sonics for an indefinite period of time.

That said, as far as I'm concerned, the Zombie Sonics' history started when the franchise moved to OKC. That's it. That means you get Durant, Nick Collison, Westbrook, and Jeff Green. Hell, you even get Robert Swift if you'd like. But you don't get to claim GP, Rain Man, Dennis Johnson, Gus Williams, Frank Brickowski, or any other player that played for the Supersonics but not for the Zombie Sonics. Nor do you hold claim on the 1979 NBA championship. That's just the way it is, no matter if their numbers are retired by the franchise or if their jerseys are hanging on the arena's rafters (tell me - are those Sonics jerseys hanging there, if they're there at all? I'm just curious).

Also, this rule goes with all organizations that move, name change or not - the Clippers (via the Buffalo Braves), the LA Lakers, the LA Dodgers, etc.

The franchise that legally owns the rights to the Supersonics' and the Zombie Sonics' history may still exist. But as far as I'm concerned, the Supersonics' fans, history, and name never left Seattle.

That said, I think the new OKC team will shape up to have a fine history of its own.

@Todd: dude are you serious? Losing a spots team is losing a part of your life. I can't go see professional basketball games anymore. There's no "local squad," no team that the entire community is behind. A sports team brings people together; look at this blog! Look at how the Thunder provides a common ground for all you guys. A passion, a hobby, something to follow and care about. I had a relationship with the Sonics. Can you say any of that about any other business besides a sports franchise? Of course not! It might be a business, but it extends far beyond that. I'm lucky to have had a local team to love for 14 of my years, but that's dead now.

@Joe: that's a joke bro. Only Collison played more than one season with the Sonics of the players you listed. They are Oklahoma players. The organization is made up of entirely different people who represent a different product. Why should the history books say that Gary Payton played for the Oklahoma City Thunder franchise? He didn't. It's a different team. The record books should split the two teams. It is not the history of a business, its the history of a sports team.

Would I accept another team, such as the Kings? No, I wouldn't feel right about that. I know what it's like, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I believe the NBA owes us a new team, however.

People of OKC, I have nothing against you. Don't take it that way. You wouldn't know how it feels to have a team really taken from you, so its not like I can hold rooting for the Thunder against you. We are bitter toward basketball, and some blame you fans. It isn't your fault; you didn't do anything wrong.

@Goose
Love that. It's more than a little ironic that in "Heavy Metal," that song is preceeded by the trial of Capt. Lincoln F. Sternn.

@MartzMimic

You, sir, are beautiful.

Send me to the rear!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RegzUvYZ7E

Don't let these shakes go on
It's time we had a break from it
It's time we had some leave
We've been living in the flames
We've been eating out our brains
Oh, please don't let theses shakes go on

Ugh, not sure why we have to keep bringing this up over and over, I guess that is part of the fun of living in the internet age...things don't die as easily as they used to. I'm from the great NW too (now living in OKC--what luck to have my team move to my current hometown) and felt bad for my friends up there, but this was hardly unprecedented in sports history, contrary to what some would have you believe. Plenty of teams with as much, if not more history moved to new towns. Houston Oilers--Tennessee Titans (almost 40 years), Washington Nationals/Senators--Minnesota Twins (almost 60 years), Brooklyn Dodgers--Los Angeles Dodgers (more than 60 years) and I could go on. And even then, those people did not hate the people of the new city/state they moved to like seems to be the case with many people in this move and the unbridled hated that is spewed from so many people about OKC and Oklahoma in general. That has always been my issue. I don't care if you hate Stern, Bennett, the NBA and so on...just remember that OKC did nothing but support the team and be excited about getting a team.

Just wanted to thank Justin and and Sammy for their posts...they captured my feelings pretty well without me having to dredge up the painful move. Actually, this whole conversation makes me sad again. To this day I'm bitter towards Schultz, Stern, Bennett, and many others. Never been mad at OKC citizens or Sonic/Thunder players, though.

@Anonymous

That sounds accurate. Notice how none of it has anything to do with Oklahoma except for one crew-cut asshole who happened to come from there. OKC and it's citizens are just regular folks. Stern, Schultz, the gov, Bennett are all worthy of scorn. The people of Oklahoma are doing nothing but trying to be less-sucky. They should be applauded, not insulted. If one hates what Oklahoma is, one should be glad Oklahomans are trying to make it better, right?

justin :@Goose Yes the Sonics meant a lot to the community. The vote to move was 28-2 due to a lot of factors, but not because Seattle did not support the team.

This is my take on the problem:

The other "factors" were ignored. All anyone was able to focus on was how much OKC sucks and how the NBA would never choose OKC over Seattle. The issues that spurred the move (or at least the NBA's willingness to accept the move) were never addressed, perhaps never even understood. I actually feel that Seattle's focus on OKC not deserving the team kept them from "taking care of business" and getting shit straight with the NBA (which is where all the issues resided).

You're right, fan support in Seattle was fine. But fan support was never the issue. And those issues were never addressed (at least by the people in power)

@justin

You are one of several I really love to hear from (among others). Despite my discomfort with the situation, you guys that rep Seattle here have really helped remind me there are great people up there. I, like many others, just get tired of the constant barrage from "other" places. Thanks for helping me back down to reality.

I wish the move had never happened, but I wouldn't trade the Thunder for anything. They've been a miracle to the people around here. I wish we could just move on, get Seattle a team, and let the poor Okies try to improve their po-dunk town.

Regardless, much love and respect.

The most telling vote was the I91 (or was it I95?) referendum vote. That pretty much sealed the deal.

Sorry about that outburst. Can you tell I've been upset?

I actually have alot of love for the people who see beyond all this garbage, especially the ones who lost the Sonics.

Those people are the ones I should focus on, and in that light I regret my "outburst" above.

I've lived all over this country and it always upsets me to see okie-hate. I really wish the rest of the country would see us for what we are: the same people that comprise every other American state.

watch sonicsgate, it is a decent documentary on the move.

@Goose

ESPN commenting isn't representative of the city of Seattle or the Pacific Northwest. There were (and are) plenty of OKC internet trolls as well. If you're going to base your opinion of Seattle citizens on a sampling of internet messages then you're no different...

Yes the Sonics meant a lot to the community. The vote to move was 28-2 due to a lot of factors, but not because Seattle did not support the team. OKC's got almost four decades to speak on that matter. :)

I've learned alot about the Pacific NW and the bigotry many of it's citizens contain. It broke my heart to hear what they really feel about us, but I guess it's best to know. Now I no longer feel bad about having the Thunder. I actually feel they got what they deserved.

You hate us, and now we have learned to hate you.

And this season is going to rock.

And by the way, stop all the "it meant so much to Seattle" talk. They should have acted like it meant alot, and not just take pot-shots and innocent people trying to make a better life for themselves. You should have worked things out with the NBA instead of just "calling the bluff" and attacking OKC and it's people.

Here's what's most telling: the vote to move was 28-2. Do you ever ask yourselves why?

According to friends still in Seattle, the NBA is dead to them. At a home M's game this year, they announced that the Lakers had just won the Finals and a spontaneous stadium-wide chant of "F*** the NBA!" broke out. Despite what the league would have you believe, there are a LOT of people in that city that bled green and gold and to deride the league as a whole is the only way they've been able to move on. For me, the only way I've been able to cope is to not stop rooting for the team.

I'll always be bitter about the move. I grew up with that team; the Payton/Kemp teams of the 90s are inextricably linked with my childhood. That pride you feel when you see the Ford Center going nuts in the playoffs? We had that, too. Key Arena was notorious as one of the most raucous playoff atmospheres in the league. I feel numb when I see your city support the team the way they do. "Those should be MY people!" is my primary thought. But what am I gonna do? I can't quit this team.

@Todd

Excellent points, but the big difference between something like the Sonics moving and the New Orleans situation is the depth of history involved with the Sonics. A few generations grew up with the Sonics in Seattle. The Sonics were a big part of the community, a big part of the Pacific Northwest, even. Life goes on without them, but they were deeply enrenched into society.

@Joe
(stands and claps) Good work Joe! I was waiting for your sensible levity on the matter.

@Todd
Good points here.

Don't forget btw that Russ Westbrook, Serge Ibaka and D.J.White were all drafted by or traded to the Sonics, before the move, and Kyle Weaver also before there was a "Thunder" team.

So along with KD, Green and Collison, 5 players in the current 9 man rotation still have ties to the Sonics. Many people like me loved the Sonics for years, but moved on. I love the Thunder and don't have any problems rooting for them. I thought maybe about switching my allegiances briefly (still being a west coaster not living in Seattle, I thought maybe the Kings or GSW, but I just couldn't do it) but to no avail. I love my team and I probably always will.

To me they are still the same team. Just different colors and a different town, but still the same team.

"Now I can’t imagine how painful it must have been like to lose a franchise the way they did. At this point if somebody from Seattle punched me just for being from OKC, I’d kind of understand where they were coming from. In light of that, putting up with a few snide comments on a internet message board seems kind of trivial."

Much if not most about the entire argument is trivial. Most of the folks getting caught up in it have lost some of their wider perspective, or perhaps they haven't lived long enough to have such a perspective yet. Not being condescending with that. It's simply that loss is part of life. If you're born into the world, you're going to lose things and people that are important to you. That's part of the deal. It sucks, but it's part of the deal. If you haven't experienced that kind of a loss yet, you will. And when that day comes, you will understand why the loss of a sports team barely rates, if it rates at all.

Trust me, I love the Thunder, and I would hate to lose them. But if it were to happen, it wouldn't shatter my life. You adjust, and you move forward, because the world is going to keep spinning regardless of what you do. There is no rewind button on the real thing. And there are far more important things in your life than who your favorite sports team is. If not, you need to reexamine your priorities.

I feel bad for the Sonics fans in Seattle. I also had nothing to do with it. And I also understand that if and when they get a new team, and if that team once belonged to another city, Seattle is not going to apologize for their good fortune. For luring another city's team away, the same way the Sonics were lured away. The same fans that hurl hatred OKC's way for "stealing our team" will be perfectly happy to have someone else's team to call their own. It's just the way it works.

For evidence, look to New Orleans. There's nothing Sonics fans can call Oklahomans that the good folks down New Orleans way didn't call us ten times over when the Hornets were here. And yet, I know from reading the posts myself, that when the Hornets relocated from Charlotte to New Orleans, some of those same folks were defending the move, and saying that the Hornets had every right to move wherever they wanted to go. As long, apparently, as that wherever did not include Charlotte and Oklahoma City. Or anyplace else besides New Orleans. So it goes.

Someone needs to dig up Berry Tramel's article from when the Sonics announced they were coming to OKC. The main point of the article, as I remember it, was simply that companies move from one city to another on a regular basis, and some of those companies had relocated to Seattle from other cities over the years. Seattle I rather doubt ever apologized to whatever city they "stole" those companies from, anymore than any other city would do so. It's business. It happens. You find a better deal somewhere else, you see greener pastures, whatever the case, you pick up and go. Companies do it, people do it. And when it happens, people are affected by it. Some in bad ways, some in good ways. But you move on, because that's what we do.

There is so much gnashing of teeth when sports teams relocate because it's more high-profile. You don't generally see outfits like Dell and United going head-to-head on national TV in front of a live audience. And you don't usually see fans wearing Chesapeake Energy t-shirts or mobbing the CEO, like in that commercial most of us have seen. Maybe it was Devon Energy, I forget. But the point is, people don't get emotionally attached to companies, or they think they don't, even though sports teams at heart are companies too. But Tramel's article, which touched on some of this, is worth a read. His bottom-line point was that OKC had nothing to be ashamed of. And he's right.

If there are folks in Seattle that are letting the loss of the Sonics affect their everyday lives, they have issues that go far beyond sports. But I would think that there are much better things to do in a beautiful place like Seattle than to waste time on something like that. And I hope for their sake that there are more folks up there who agree than don't. It's not worth eating your insides out over. Not even close. But if you insist on doing so, then you bear the responsibility for the results. Everyone suffers losses, big and small. Everyone. What makes the difference is how you respond to it.

@Serge Ibaka’s 19th Sibling

Mom got pregnant again? Someone call TLC and get us a reality show

@Cpt. C-note i saw them in houston also, it was 2001 on the kid a/amnesiac tour. one of the best shows i've ever seen... er, uh, go thunder!!

When then Thunder first got here I didn't really understand how Seattle could be so distraught over losing them because I thought they weren't supporting the team and therefore shouldn't care. Now I can't imagine how painful it must have been like to lose a franchise the way they did. At this point if somebody from Seattle punched me just for being from OKC, I'd kind of understand where they were coming from. In light of that, putting up with a few snide comments on a internet message board seems kind of trivial.

I agree with AC

It is good that there was never ever any vitriol from any OKC fans towards Seattle or New Orleans...oh wait...

I can follow it junior. It isn't that hard.

Kinda OT, but...@Josh@donuteyes

and

Radiohead Rulz! Ones of my biggest influences as a musician. I've seen 'em in LA, Houston, Dallas, and KC. Great stuff...

There are way too many Anonymous' arguing with each other. It makes it hard to follow, so i'm going to assume its one guy that keeps changing his mind

@Anonymous

Considering that the Ford Center was funded and built years before we had a team, the fact that this our only major league team, and even in this down economy we recently passed 800 million dollar funding project to build a central park, street car lines, upgrade our Olympic rowing facilities, build a new convention center, and more. So an upgrade in 6 or 7 years is not out of the question.

@Anonymous

The facts are not lost on most Thunder fans, just the vitriol.

@Patrick James

Exactly, the posts on ESPN aren't representative of the general sports fan in Seattle. Seattle has some of the best sports fans in the country, IMO...

Royce, the difference between Minneapolis / Los Angeles and the Sonics is that Seattle had 40 years of history in the city. That's a lot more history to deal with.

I left one thing out: Not only have most sensible Seattle-area Sonics fans directed their anger elsewhere long ago, but many of them never directed them to Oklahoma in the first place. And still more didn't care at all.

One of a few trips I've made to the Northwest was the OU-Washington football game in Seattle in September 2008 a few weeks before the Thunder opened training camp in OKC for the first time. Just like any OU football road trip, I was in a group of people who wore Sooners gear every day while we were up there. We thought about it ahead of time and figured people would say mean things, especially in bars, but that we would take the high road and be nice.

Zero people said anything. Zero. Even though we won something like 55-14. They were all very nice and, like most faraway fans who attend games where OU is the visitor, were sort of surprised there were so many people wearing Sooners gear around time. Nobody said a word about the Sonics or the Thunder and neither did we. The weather was awesome and we ate lots of salmon.

@Josh

"...all hail to the theif, all hail to the theif, BUT I'M NOT!"

Okay, I grew in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Became a fan of the NBA in the early 90's when my hockey interest waned and immediately liked the budding stars in Seattle. GP, Sleepy Sam Perkins, Detlef, Kendal Gill and of course Shawn Kemp. Sonic BOOM! and while everyone was cheering for Mike and the Bulls, I was sporting my green and gold (or green and burnt red/burgundy for a season). Then when things soured in Seattle I stayed with them. No bandwagoneer here. Sonic fan for life... then Clay Bennett... no fault of his own, it was Shultz who dropped the ball and the city in some regards, but he did what any businessman would have done - figure out a way to make money! So when they moved, I was team less. i couldn't cheer for a team that was stolen from 'me'. I couldn't jump on a bandwagon of another successful team... (dispite permission from The Sports Guy to choose a new team if yours skips town (espn article)) nope so I went 1 whole season without cheering for anyone...

And then it dawned on me. I was mad that seattle was NBA-less. I was mad at how OKC (read: Bennett) stole them from Seattle. I was mad at a lot of mitigating things surrounding the whole scenario. BUT none of them were basketball - on court - related things. So I said hey. Durant was a Sonics pick. Green too. Collison has been a hard hat working SOB every year since he was drafted. And there was some young exciting talent in the mix too. not to mention Sam Presti (also hired by 'the sonics') was making major moves to position the Thunder as legit "spurs-esque' decades long contenders. So all the other BS became moot and I said hey "Let me keep rooting for my team." the 'same' team that was in Seattle. And boy and am I glad I did...

The disclaimer to all this... I was never a Seattle (or other NBA City) resident. Maybe that is the difference.?

Why Seattle fans would blame anyone but Howard Schultz, the former owner, is beyond me, and I say this as a born-in-Seattle, moved away Sonic fan. Blaming the NBA is dumb. Teams have moved on fans in the past before. Should Sonic fans have boycotted the NBA before the team left for past actions? It is like having a friend who humps other people's wives, and you only think it is a problem when he gets around to yours. The NBA is a business, plain and simple. The future could see the Thunder move elsewhere, and Thunder fans would have to see the irony of the business model. Seattle idiots out there, blame the man that made 200 million dollars on selling your hometown team away from you, don't blame the good people of OKC.

I was under the impression the history up to the move could shared between the franchises. From that point, the histories would separate but both could/would come from the same common source. I would anticipate the new Sonics would merge the history of the team relocating to Seattle with the history from before the move and go from there.

While obviously I agree that simply turning the other cheek is the best and only reaction to something as heartless and moronic as bringing the Murrah Building and the friends and family members we all lost in that tragedy into a discussion about a sports team moving, I will say that when I saw that feature on ESPN I couldn't help but cringe a bit because, well, that's almost just like pouring salt onto a wound that was just beginning to close up for the basketball lovers in Seattle.

And also because I knew something like this would happen because of it.

I always have and continue to feel for the reasonable, mature Seattle fans who realize that those of us in OKC would have certainly preferred any other way to get a professional basketball team here and thus don't hold it against an entire metro area and state for something they had no direct involvement with, but I'm definitely shocked at some of the vitriol that gets tossed about over stuff like this. I was always a fan of the Sonics growing up, so if me, a die hard Thunder fan feels bad about this new All-Time Five feature on ESPN, I can only imagine what lifelong Sonic fans are feeling.

But that still gives no one the excuse to be stupid and heartless. And that goes for both sides.

Why can't I choose Krstic at center.

Per Wiki

On July 2, 2008, a settlement was reached that allowed the team to move under certain conditions, including the ownership group's payment of $45 million to Seattle and the possibility of an additional $30 million by 2013 if a new team had not been given to the city. It was agreed that the SuperSonics' name would not be used by Oklahoma City and that team's history could be shared between Oklahoma City and any future NBA team in Seattle

@Mark!
I thought for now the name, history, etc. stayed with the Thunder until Seattle has a new franchise. Then it restored to them. But I'm not positive.

I must have misunderstood this, but wasn't part of the settlement leaving behind the Sonics franchise? The name, the history, the trophies, etc? So, when/if Seattle got a new franchise, they could choose to adopt the old franchise stuff?

I thought it was. I remember thinking how weird that was since that's not usually how it's handled (Lakers, Warriors). I guess I got it completely wrong because that isn't how it's been handled at all.

@Harry Glad to have you aboard. As I said before, to the decent former Sonic fans, I really do feel for you. With that said, glad you're still along for the ride.

Thanks for this post. I was a Sonics fan and do feel like I got my team yanked out from under me. I loved the team even when they had Damien Wilkins and Chris Wilcox as featured players, so it hurts knowing how awesome they are and not being able to watch all their games. That said, OKC Thunder is now my favorite team in the NBA and I wish you guys the best. Ignore the haters, but don't ignore the fact that we in Seattle do feel legitimately screwed.

Dear Seattle,

"There's no way out/and it's too late now/you can scream and shout/but it's too late now/....cause you have not been/paying attention..."

Sincerely,

Radiohead

p.s. @Casey That's actually me. Waynehenry is my alter ego. haha. Thanks though.

@Joshua G
Oh I'd love to hear that story!

i haven't given a $#!t about what seattle thought since... actually, i never have.

Huh? Did you say something? Can't hear you....I'm blastin' the new version of an old O'Jays song. "Join hands....start a KD...Love Train..." Note: Insert "Thunder" is second part of chorus.