AP Photo/Sue Ogrocki
The Thunder defeated CSKA Moscow Thursday 97-89 at home in Oklahoma City. The game really wasn’t ever close as CSKA made up a lot of the deficit in the fourth quarter.
While it wasn’t against NBA competition, the Russian team isn’t a pushover. They played the Heat well earlier this week and have some talented player. But still, a lot of this game should be remembered as played a non-NBA team. Some notes:
- The Thunder offense was great tonight. Except for one part. Twenty-four turnovers. That’s just, well, kind of ridiculous against CSKA Moscow. The biggest offender was Kevin Durant who gave it away seven times by himself. Russell Westbrook turned it four times, Eric Maynor four times and nine of the 12 players that saw action had at least one. A lot of Durant’s struggles with the ball came when he was running point where he turned it over three or four times there alone. He was forcing things a bit and had trouble handling with the shorter, quicker defenders.
- Again, other than that, it was good stuff. OKC shot 61 percent from the floor, hit 7-11 from 3 and got to the line. The Thunder hit just 16-26 from the stripe, but offensively, everything looked solid. Except for those turnovers.
- Durant canceled out an otherwise stellar all-around game with the seven turns too. KD finished with 20 points on 8-10 shooting, including 4-5 from deep. Durant had seven assists, five rebounds and two steals in 35 minutes. Durant played all over the floor and you can just tell he’s such a better passer. He sees things he used to not and has a feel for open spots. He tried to force things a bit too much both with the pass and off the dribble – hence the seven giveaways – but this is more encouraging than the alternative.
- I don’t believe Durant attempted a shot in the second half. You could tell he was focused on passing and distributing. That’s what these games are for and Durant was taking advantage of it.
- Serge Ibaka showed off how good he can be. When he’s locked in, he’s a game-changer. He got the start and played 27 minutes, putting 15 points on 6-10, grabbed six boards and swatted six shots.
- Cole Aldrich was extremely meh in 17 minutes. The biggest number in his line is six fouls, making two straight games Aldrich hasn’t been able to finish. Not a great thing.
- Russell Westbrook was mostly absent on the offensive end. He did a nice job breaking down the Moscow defense, but he was 0-6 with only three points. He drew a number of fouls on the Russian defenders and I think he grew a little frustrated with all the grabbing they had to do to keep him in front of them. I got the feeling he could get to the rim any time he wanted and he knew it so he hung back a little and worked on stuff, along with the rest of the team.
- Westbrook went with the bright orange arm sleeve. I found it slightly disorienting and distracting.
- OKC may have turned it 24 times, but the Russians gave it away 26. James Harden had five steals all to his own.
- Speaking of, Harden was decent. He didn’t force hardly anything offensively. Everything was in the flow as he went 3-4 for six points. He had five rebounds, five assists and the aforementioned five steals. A decent all-around game.
- Jeff Green was both good and mediocre tonight. Everyone but him had a double-digit plus/minus, but Green checked in plus-eight. He finished with 15 points on 5-8 shooting (5-10 from the free throw line though) and grabbed five rebounds. To put it in language you might understand, it was just a very Jeff Green kind of game.
- Morris Peterson let everyone know the bench specialist job isn’t all Daequan Cook’s yet. Peterson went 4-5 from the floor for nine points (1-2 from 3) and was a nice veteran scoring presence on the floor with the second unit. Cook didn’t play at all tonight, so Peterson had his chances.
- I continue to think Byron Mullens has a chance to be something. I’ll just leave it at that.
Again, nothing all the revolutionary from a very sloppy preseason game against a non-NBA opponent. But the game was played and the Thunder won it. There’s a little something to take, with one of those being that there’s only three more preseason games until the real thing.
Next up is San Antonio on the road Monday.
*when he returns that is...
James, I hope you're right and Serge turns out to be the answer at Center. God knows everyone around here loves him. Don't let our disagreements about fit fool you.
You will all be wrong. Wait and see!
I too expect Krstic to start. While Ibaka is usable at the 5, he is much better suited to play the 4 or to get minutes at both as an energy guy. And, while Nenad can be infuriating sometimes with his lack of athleticism, I think he is our best option for reasons we have discussed already.
Also.....with the exception of his finger, Krstic is in better shape now than he was last year. I also think we will see a more polished Krstic this year, judging by his FIBA play/chair throwing.
We'll see. I saw the Miami game and have season tickets but couldn't make it last night. I would love for Cole to step up and become a viable option at center but he's got a long ways to go.
@James
Well, wait till you watch a game. You'll see what we're talking about.
I'm sure Krstic will start if his finger has healed. By all indications he'll be ready to go by opening night. Collison's timetable is a bit longer though, with no real date given as to when he'll be back.
Look at Coles box score the last 2 games you really can't do much worse. That's what I'm looking at. He might look good running up and down the court but that doesn't help the team out at all. I bet you Serge starts at the 5 opening night and will continue to do so when everyone is healthy. He's our best option there.
Seems like everytime we have front court discussion these days I just get bummed. This team needs someone like Blair or Griffin so bad.....
@James
I'm not sure what you're looking at, but if you think Mullens is further along than Cole, then so be it. We'll just have to agree to have different opinions on what a true center should look like.
I'm not down on Serge playing the 5, but he's just so much better suited to play the 4 that I think it's a mistake to waste his development at any other position. But, this is just preseason, and our two good options at the 5 are both injured. So when the season starts then Serge will get the majority of his minutes back at the 4 where he's best used.
Also, it give great insight to check out Serge's player pairings and see how each set performed together. Serge is great when he's allowed to run on energy and instinct and ignore fundamentals and system, but only when he's paired with a solid frontcourt player who knows how to make up for Serge being out of position. His two best pairings last year had Collison at the 5 - which is exactly that kind of player.
Jax Raging Bile Duct :@James
Based on his style of play, how he uses his body, and his understanding of where to be on the floor. When you see a guy who has played center his whole life, he looks like Cole. He just has that understanding, that mindset.
Byron has come a long way, and he’ll probably play meaningful minutes in an NBA at some point (which will prove me wrong – after we drafted him I said on this blog that I didn’t think he’d ever make it out of the d-league). Byron would be a typical center in Euro-league, and those are becoming more common in today’s NBA. But Bryon just isn’t there yet.
Serge lacks a refined skill, he’s an energy only guy right now. His blocks come from athleticism and gambles, so do his rebounds. That works well when you’re going against 2nd teamers and floor bound bigs who can’t pass, but until he develops his fundamentals in the low post, he’ll be exploited with matchups and schemes. Serge snuck up on people last year, and if we give him starter minutes at the 5 this year then teams will gameplan for him, he’ll really struggle there.
I agree with all but Serge. Mullens isn't ready yet. He's more ready than Cole is at this point but Serge is twice the player (and twice the center) either of those guys are at this point. Serge does block out too I've seen it. The perception on this board is that he is a 4 and people like to bash him when he plays center because they want him at the 4. He's played well this preseason at the 5. He's rebounding, he scoring, he's blocking shots and he's defending. He's definitely not a finished product but he's getting a lot closer and he can be a good 5 in this league.
All I got to say is $5.oo Tall-boy 6-point Red Stripes at the bar RULZ!!! Thanks for listening Thunder brass!!
@James
Based on his style of play, how he uses his body, and his understanding of where to be on the floor. When you see a guy who has played center his whole life, he looks like Cole. He just has that understanding, that mindset.
Byron has come a long way, and he'll probably play meaningful minutes in an NBA at some point (which will prove me wrong - after we drafted him I said on this blog that I didn't think he'd ever make it out of the d-league). Byron would be a typical center in Euro-league, and those are becoming more common in today's NBA. But Bryon just isn't there yet.
Serge lacks a refined skill, he's an energy only guy right now. His blocks come from athleticism and gambles, so do his rebounds. That works well when you're going against 2nd teamers and floor bound bigs who can't pass, but until he develops his fundamentals in the low post, he'll be exploited with matchups and schemes. Serge snuck up on people last year, and if we give him starter minutes at the 5 this year then teams will gameplan for him, he'll really struggle there.
@James
Hahaha. I don't think anyone said he lit the court on fire last night. But, for a rook, he seemed to have his head in the game. Ibaka is getting by on pure athleticism and he is going to get exposed against the leagues bigger 5's. Mullens is still, well, Mullens.
Aldrich has a good shot at working into the starting lineup later this year if he can stay healthy and do what is asked. At the very least, he will take some rotation minutes.
Jax Raging Bile Duct :@James
He’s not ready to start yet. But he’s already further along than Mullens, and more suited for center than Serge.
Based on what? Him fouling out in 9 minutes with 0 points, 0 rebounds and 0 blocks 2 games ago or his fouling out in 17 minutes (-15 +/-) with his 2 rebounds and 0 blocks from last night?
Cool... thanks. I did notice a few times that he passed on open drives to the baseline while guarded by the opposing 4. You have to take advantage of things like that.
@Bryan
To be honest I didn't really notice much when he played the 4, other than it's harder to get him the ball. And he didn't go into score mode either. So, you didn't miss much.
Jax Raging Bile Duct :@James
He’s not ready to start yet. But he’s already further along than Mullens, and more suited for center than Serge.
seconded
@James
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm think mid-season. I'm actually one of the few people who respects what Krstic brings to team defense. However, I think Aldrich has the potential to get significant minutes and maybe even start later in the season..... maybe.
@James
He's not ready to start yet. But he's already further along than Mullens, and more suited for center than Serge.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct
Interesting thought. I definitely wouldn't try it against any stretch 4's or any of the more athletic front courts, but it could be good against San Antonio, the Lakers or the Celtics.
Also, Durant got some time playing the 4 last night and my girl friend kept distracting me. What were your thoughts????
I can't see why anyone has Aldrich meriting even close to a starting spot yet. He's been awful the past 2 games. He's still adjusting obviously but not even close to being ready to start at this point.
One thing I don't see anyone mention much is the possibility of an Aldrich/Krstic pairing. We typically pencil Nenad in at center, but he could play the 4 with that outside shot. It would be a big lineup and wouldn't work against stretch 4's. And I wouldn't mind seeing an Aldrich/Collison pairing either. I think an Aldrich/Collison frontcourt would be a very solid pair. This is of course if Aldrich becomes the player we think he can become.
@Bryan
I posted most of that in the game thread, but it was at the end after everyone was done. I see where you're coming from with Cole's athleticism, and to be honest, it's the same thing I remember from his college days. He's a half step slow, and awkward athlete. Totally agree about the "presence" he has, unlike Mullens. I posted this yesterday in the other thread...
Cole is not a balerina. He’s a bull in a China closet. He’s not smooth or graceful in the least. Even when he runs down the court it looks like he’s carrying a fallen soldier over his shoulder. But for crying out loud, that dude has the widest shoulders and the longest arms… it really looks like he has broomsticks for arms – they’re everywhere. Cole has a presense on the floor, and it’s something that’s just an eye test thing. Mullens is bigger and more fluid athletically, but he doesn’t have that presence that Cole does.
justin :@James
Giving up too many offensive rebounds and he’s a sieve against good post players, especially playing next to Green.
Ibaka/Green is not a good front court against starting units. I could see a front court depth chart on the order of Adrich/Krstic/Ibaka and Ibaka/Green once Adrich gets comfortable....with Collison getting burn when needed.
That provides a nice scoring punch off the bench to compensate for the fact that Harden will be starting.
By mid season:
Wesbrook, Maynor
Harden, Thabo, Peterson/Cook?
Durant, Green, Peterson?
Ibaka, Green, Collison
Aldrich, Krstic, Ibaka
@Jax Raging Bile Duct
I didn't think any of Aldrich's fouls were particularly egregious. It was more the rate that I was concerned about.
Like you said, I remember Ibaka had similar foul problems last year. Also, Adrich did not have the benefit of summer leaguge to get used to the speed of the game. I'm sure he will be fine in that regard.
I'm sure Aldrich will contribute. He does have a presence in the middle and contested quite a few shots. My only concern has to do with his athleticism and mobility. By the time he peaks mentally, I think his legs will be holding him back. He's one of those players who looks like his knees are going to buckle everytime he moves too fast.
@James
Giving up too many offensive rebounds and he's a sieve against good post players, especially playing next to Green.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct
And that's with a year less of experience.
Well said as usual, Jax.
I think you guys are missing the boat on Aldrich and his fouls. Not a single one of them were because he was out of position. However, he did leave his man to help, but that's what we do as a team. True, the center is the last guy you want leaving his man to help, but that's still something he's asked to do.
Two of his fouls were contesting shots at the rim. One foul was a hack-a-shaq approach instead of giving a guy an easy shot. One foul was wrestling for position against a bigger guy.
Yeah, he has to cut those fouls down, but he's further along than either Serge or Mullens at playing center.
justin :
James :Mullens is improved. He’s gotten stronger now he needs to learn how to use it. Ibaka will be solid at the 4 or 5.
I don’t know how you can say Ibaka will be good at the 5 based on this preseason or last season. Even last night he was giving up offensive rebounds to the Russkies and losing position.
Ibaka has had a solid preseason. Especially the two games he started. Not that tough. Solid numbers in both games. 13.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and 3.5 blocks in those games at center +10.5. I'll take those numbers. He's been solid.
Kevin Martin and Ron Artest both with homes being foreclosed right now. That's with their big NBA contracts paying out every week. Imagine if the cash flow stops!
The NBA players will cave within a month or two if there's a lockout. No way they miss even half a season's pay.
James :Mullens is improved. He’s gotten stronger now he needs to learn how to use it. Ibaka will be solid at the 4 or 5.
I don't know how you can say Ibaka will be good at the 5 based on this preseason or last season. Even last night he was giving up offensive rebounds to the Russkies and losing position.
Mullens is improved. He's gotten stronger now he needs to learn how to use it. Ibaka will be solid at the 4 or 5.
I liked the orange too, especially for Durant's padding. When he wore only white last year, it looked like someone had tried to mummify him while he was napping.
Mullens is okay. The fact that his performance last night was forgettable is probably a sign that he has improved.
That Russian dude even made Mullens look short...... just huge.
Mullens will be something, Bigs take longer to develop everybody needs to be patient
Some thoughts from the stands...
It seemed to me that this game was mostly about rotations and individual focus. I'm fairly certain that last night's starting line up (RW,JH,KD,JG and SI) is what you will see when the season begins (sans Krstic).
Brooks seemed to use rotations that were very similar to last year's, but with Harden and Ibaka getting the start. I was skeptical about Harden's improvement... but I think it's for real (in as much as a preseason game against a non-NBA tells you anything).
Durant was clearly working on distributing the ball and making plays, which he did fairly well with the exception of his turnovers. He seemed to only score when he felt like it (must be nice) or when it made sense in the flow of the game.
Westbrook doesn't do much without the ball in his hands. Not really sure what he was working on.
Give some credit to the CSKA back court, they were pesky all night and earned a lot of those turnovers. The others were created by sloppy (read: surprise) entrance passes and stone hands (you've seen this before).
Aldrich was more of a stiff than I had hoped. While he was fairly mobile, it really looks like it requires a huge amount of effort for him to rotate or run the floor. Not encouraged. He also fouled a ton. but I think the mistakes are correctable.
Ibaka looked like a little kid next to that GIANT 7'3 Russian Center. But he held his ground and played reasonable on ball defense. He also showed off that nice jumper I've been hearing about.... very encouraged. Looks like he will be fairly automatic with that one.
Jeff Green is breaking my heart. I have defended him perhaps more than anyone. But he got exploited on the defensive perimeter last night (mostly when his man spotted up and he was out of position). And, while he scored the ball, I can't seem to recall him being a factor on that end of the floor. If he is supposed to give us a "mismatch" on offense and versatility on defense..... then I'd like to see it. I saw it last year.... so far no sign of it in the preseason.... even against scrubs.
Durant guarded the post some. He got backed down some by the bigger Russian, but still showed that he can hold his own. He might actually be a better post defender than Green.
Peterson looked slow and uncomfortable at first but started making plays late in the game when Russia was still playing it's first string and trying to get the win.
DJ White was invisible.
No change from Mullens.
Maynor looked uncharacteristically uncomfortable... maybe because he was playing with new guys???
Tweety Carter looked GREAT in limited minutes. He really surprised me. He was fast and crafty against Russia's starting PG and was really the player that closed out the game for the Thunder. He also has a real nice floater.
I did not get a chance to watch Royal Ivey, but if they want a 3rd PG, I'd say give Carter a go.
Milsap got some burn. He looked good on D, of course, and never really got beat that I can think of. On offense, he seemed to get into the lane at will but did not seem willing to finish in traffic. And his passes were last-minute jobs that didn't create much.
I hope they don't put KD at PG during the regular season until he can figure out how to take care of the ball better.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Aldrich - and Mullens, to a lessor extent - are still adjusting to the speed of the game. There seemed to be more than a few times when Cole would overcommit to help on defense, leaving his guy open. Add to that, he'll lose his guy ever so often. It seemed like a lot of his fouls came from trying to recover.
I thought Mullens was noticeably better than last year. That may not say a whole bunch, but I could see the kid's put a lot of effort into improving.
My biggest frustration was the Thunder's continuing saga of not finishing shots at the rim. Sometimes I think they're more interested in drawing the foul than they are in making the shot.
Dave :
I don’t believe Mullens has “it”.
Some would say he stole "it" from Robert Swift. I hope they are wrong. ;)
Harden is coming along. I'm excited about him. Seems like OKC is set in the backcourt with Westbrook, Harden and Durant. Terrific backcourt, and all of them are only going to get better.
It would be nice to be able say the same about the frontcourt. Ibaka needs to be a starter as well. I don't like him much at the 5, though. He's a perfect PF. The 5 remains open for Krstic, Aldrich or Collison.
I don't believe Mullens has "it".
@Kivman
That's completely true Kivman. Just the speed of the game and the fact that you get picked on as soon as some coach suspects your liable to foul...
Seems like a lot of bigs have to figure out how to reduce fouling when they first come in the league. I remember being very frustrated with Collison's fouling issues when he was a rook. Most of them figure it out...hopefully Cole will, too. I'm sure there will be nights when he's a fouling machine.