TGR #28: James Harden’s Coming Out Party

@justin
i think you are thinking WAY ahead of schedule. Thunder are developing early and ahead of schedule, which does put many great expectations on our team; but I think to speculate some of the things you have stated about bagging Brooks are quite lofty.

The other statements made by other posters about PJ being fired- that is a completely different story.

Anyone who understands development understands that a team like the Thunder may not make it to the playoffs every year, much less past the first round... give it some time! I do think and hope we can do these things, though. Don't get me wrong at all!

@justin

justin :@The
Hitman
“Brooks has exceeded expectations”
If this team doesn’t make it past the first round in the next two seasons this place will be up in arms and Brooks will be on the hot seat for this reason.

You didn't really answer my question; where are you referring to when you say "this place"?

@qrex

Brooks wouldn't be in trouble b/c of Daily Thunder comments, I meant national / local media. Don't meet the media / fans expectations in the NBA and the coach is almost always the scapegoat especially young coaches... Presti certainly wouldn't be, and Brooks would get pressure way before KD / RW.

I don't know if people have mentioned this quote yet, but it confirms that Brooks agrees with what a lot of people have been mentioning on this site, about Harden lacking aggressiveness/confidence more than skills/athletism.

"Thunder coach Scott Brooks said that when Harden is aggressive and quick with his decisions, he plays better.

"He knows it drives me crazy," Brooks said about Harden's tendency to set up slowly for his shot. "I've never had the luxury of a coach wanting you not to hesitate on your shot.""

justin :@The
Hitman
“Brooks has exceeded expectations”
If this team doesn’t make it past the first round in the next two seasons this place will be up in arms and Brooks will be on the hot seat for this reason.

And, by "this place", you are referring to ...? (the Daily Thunder comments??)

If we stay healthy I don't think it'll be an issue, there's probably enough talent on the team to get to the second round if we get a nice seed.

@The Hitman

"Brooks has exceeded expectations"

If this team doesn't make it past the first round in the next two seasons this place will be up in arms and Brooks will be on the hot seat for this reason. Heck, if the team doesn't make it past the first round this year, it'd fall short of many fans' expectations.

@Sammy
I agree with you 100%. A lot of the reason GMs get into trouble is beacuase they make moves for the sake of making them.

Although, I have one reservation. If there is some sort of grandfathering in of old contracts into the new CBA, it could be beneficial to do some deals now, before being handcuffed by more restrictive rules.

What I'm looking for is whether or not Brooks can guide this team to continue moving the ball and play defense through an entire game. I think the reason Harden's been on such a short string is due to the hestitancy he's shown this season.

I'm not too concerned about Aldrich and Mullens seeing limited minutes right now. When you consider that we've faced Portland, Utah and Boston twice already, along with the Spurs and Bulls, those probably aren't the best teams to have inexperienced bigs cut their teeth against.

@SunTzu76

I tend to agree.

With the success of the team last season, I think Presti will be patient in allowing the team to develop including Brooks. He has always emphasised long term growth over peremptory panic over short term results. Calesimo had to go because his record was woeful. Brooks has exceeded expectations.

I think people here tend overrate technical x and o coaches. Sure, Brooks could run a Princeton offence and the like. But I think he understands that the message has to be simple for a young team - play hard, move the ball and defend well. Over time, I'm sure he will add things to the team. At the moment, I am prepared to trust Presti and Brooks because last seasons results exceeded all expectations and this season has not been that bad.

@SunTzu76
he did fire PJ after 13 games.

@justin
No way is Brooks gone then. There are just too many variables to say that. Clearly you don't understand what Presti is trying to do. If you aren't ready to see a Utah type team here with the occassional chance to complete for a ring, then you may want to find another team to cheer for. Presti hasn't made a big splash yet and in all likelihood won't until it looks like we are peaking as a team, then we may get a big trade/free agent. Until then, you are going to have to be patient and watch the team grow. Presti and Brooks have way too much credibility in the bank in OKC for Brooks to be gone after next season if he doesn't make the second round. We would have to have a PJ like meltdown with the team giving up on him for that to happen. You are just going to have to sit and be patient and enjoy the ride for a while or be disappointed for the next several years.

@justin
i would hope thats the case, our lack of offense scheme is a problem, we very well could be 3-10 instead of 9-4

I don't have any problem with playing our best players right now with an eye towards seeing how far this current group can go/how much they've developed this season. If that includes playing Aldrich scant minutes, that's ok; currently, Collison and Krstic provide a better fit on the floor than Aldrich does. It's fine to look into trades right now, but if nothing is out there that clearly improves the team and/or doesn't seem a prudent use of our remaining cap space, there's no reason to push something through for the sake of pushing something through. Next offseason is the real deadline to get the last major pieces in place.

@qrex

By next year I meant next season, i.e. the 2011-2012 season.

@qrex

If the Thunder don't make the second round by next year Brooks is as good as gone, IMO, with the amount of talent on this team / the expectations.

@justin
Let me see if I have this correct. An organization preaching patience to their fans will be able to sell (to those same fans) the firing of the current coach of the year because they make the playoff but don't advance again. I hope we don't get a chance to test your theory, but I don't see it happening even if we do. In OKC, that seems like a good recipe for fan alienation. You lose credibility when you make statements like that.

We need a consistent post up dude. Done, championship contender.

@justin

Serge Ibaka, please step up tot he front of the line! You are now our 3rd star!

@dream catcher

NBA timetables are shorter than you're indicating. If the team doesn't make playoffs progress (i.e. second round or better by next season) then Scott Brooks will probably be fired. You are always moving toward something. Like Bill Simmons said, we have a bonafide MVP candidate star and another budding star. There's no reason not to pursue deep playoff runs and championship right now. Justifying inaction with 'development' and 'organic growth' is OK as long as that growth is leading toward real progress.

I think this team is definitely close to a finished product. We've got Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, and a bunch of decent role players. A third star player, and this is a contending team.

Thunder Wonder awards?!? I know another blogger who uses that term. You may have to pay someone royalties or sumthin' ;)

sigh,

Keith :@justin

Getting better just seems like coach-speak to me. Everyone on the team wants to get better every day. Every GM wants their team to get better through good trades and solid signings. Every owner wants their team to get better in ticket sales and merch revenues. Like you’re saying, I think there should be some tangible goals. And perhaps more importantly, some tangible effects of those goals.
If the goal is deep playoffs, we shouldn’t see such ineffective lineups over time, and there should be more inclination towards finding a good trade. If the goal is playoffs but focusing on team development, Ibaka should never lose the starting spot, Harden should be given a chance to start, and Krstic shouldn’t be playing more than a handful of minutes. I hate to say it, but in some ways it is one way or the other, with no effective in between.

Presti's long term goal is sustained success. We don't know what he thinks success means but Id assume deep runs in the playoffs yearly.

Presti doesn't think like most people. He isn't thinking oh we are playing good we need to get a piece to get over the hump. He is thinking we need to continue to develop these guys because we are not close to a finished product. Aldrich is not dressed but that doesn't mean he is not developing. Mullens is also another young guy who took his place, and by benching Aldrich a rookie he learns that nothing is guaranteed and you need to work hard to earn a spot on this team.

@justin
Only because of the position he plays and who he is backing up:)

@justin
Getting better just seems like coach-speak to me. Everyone on the team wants to get better every day. Every GM wants their team to get better through good trades and solid signings. Every owner wants their team to get better in ticket sales and merch revenues. Like you're saying, I think there should be some tangible goals. And perhaps more importantly, some tangible effects of those goals.

If the goal is deep playoffs, we shouldn't see such ineffective lineups over time, and there should be more inclination towards finding a good trade. If the goal is playoffs but focusing on team development, Ibaka should never lose the starting spot, Harden should be given a chance to start, and Krstic shouldn't be playing more than a handful of minutes. I hate to say it, but in some ways it is one way or the other, with no effective in between.

I think at some point there has to be a tangible goal other than 'to get better'.

@Keith

Either way, we should have a pretty good idea after this season what the intentions are.

It was brought up in a previous comment section, but I have to wonder if Brooks/Presti are trying to walk too fine a line of win-now vs. development. If the higher ups decides we are really a year or so away, why not start Harden and give all of Krstic's minutes to Aldrich? If we think we are so good now that it's worth yanking Harden once he misses or not playing the only true center on our roster, then why aren't we looking for a final piece to our puzzle? As a fan, I can't know how management thinks, only how they act. To date, I can't figure out where the management sees the team, and it leaves all my feelings and comments about the team in limbo.

I want a trade so that I can know that we intend to compete for a championship.

I want to shove minutes down our young guys' throats so that I know we are still developing talent.

Doing neither forces me to judge the team from both sides, which will always leave me disappointed.

James Harden being good is way more important than Eric Maynor being good.

ANyone who attempts to answer that question doesnt have any sense. Were all speculators and everyones been wrong about everybody so far. There both young and developing and there both a far cry from developing any kind of consistencey. There both have great and bad games ahead of them. Ive always had faith in Harden while many people here thought he was trash. All of those folk were conspicuously quiet in the forum last night. Maynor is smart and solid, but Harden may have a higher ceiling. However, but Id wait until at least the midpoint to see is more valuable, and besides, even then, I believe they will both be quite crucial to their roles.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

He's gay?!