Thunder extends Collison’s contract

@Joe

I appreciate you sharing your perspective from that draft. I didn't start following the draft until 08. I wanted Westbrook. Now I'm addicted to watching the draft.

Well, on second thought, "heck of a lot" might be more the exception than the general trend; but for the 7 guys in the Thunder main rotation last season who played 2 positions, the average difference on net PER and net points between the 2 positions was about 3 per 48 minutes in each case and about 8% on team win%.

For all the interesting talk about the NBA becoming position-less or less position-oriented if you look at 82 games position split data it matters a heck a lot for many if not most players between PG-SG, SG-SF, SF-PF or PF-C.

@Joe

Part of the Gaines story was having a guy playing mostly or entirely out of natural position in college (or at least the last season or two) and trying to decide what he could or would become in the NBA. That might be tougher than projecting a tweener by size & talent that splits the college positions more equally.

Green was a point forward in colege but it was mostly or entirely the more rare power PF wasn't it?

On a smaller scale recently Elijah Milsap was all PF I believe.

Back in the day Desmond Mason was mostly or entirely PF.

There is a difference between becoming / being an NBA tweener and a college to the NBA position shifter. Position shifters may be tougher on average calls to make so if you make them you probably should be more sure than normal.

The willingness to possibly spend too much, in an after the fact view, is a good overall sign though. If you write off the bonus as a low risk expense (and probably more palatable than many other writeoffs), Nick is very likely to be at least worth his future annual salaries.

If Nick's per game minutes go from 20 this season to more like 15 next season or the season after, and under 15 in year 3 or 4 of the new deal and maybe even under 10 is it still a good deal? Maybe, but not as good as if he stays near 20 for at least 2 more seasons.

@justin

Reece Gaines didn't do what many thought he could, including me... but then Francisco Garcia has or at least had done a lot more.

@jdstorm

It was a creative move, pushing as far with that twist as you could.

I wouldn't have gone any higher and as much as I like Nick I might have been tougher and let the chips fall where they may.

Analyzing this deal would be helped by knowing what is going to happen with Krstic and Green. But only Presti knows what he intends. He doesn't fully control all scenarios.

Overall it is probably more likely to be looked back upon as a good or OK deal than less than that. I am not sure it will be as stellar as it looks now, but that depends on Nicks health and his actual future minutes.

@Crow
thats ok though. over 4 years that works out at just under 4.5 million a year. thats less then derrick fisher is making this year, and a standard amount for a good role player. then when you take into account the structure of the deal which potentially saves us that 6 million x 2 or 3 due to luxury tax savings since we will be up against the cap keeping players. and Presti probably saved 10 million by using the cap space now.

plus 2 million a year for collison in 2014 is a good contract. that would be easily moveable if it came to that. Collison is also a great trade piece to a team that wants to save money since he will be paid 10 million less next year then this according to his cap number Green + Collison plus picks is a superstar level package should one become availiable.

@Daniel Hawaii

Actually it is $17.5 mil for just 4 more years. The payment of the $6.5 million or so bonus on his next contract now is in addition to what he was already getting paid this season.

@Joe

Yep. I was sure that Reece Gaines would be a player. Shows what I know.

Anonymous :It is a little confusing but I think Nick is getting $11 mil over 4 years plus $6.5 mil now. That is a great deal for Nick. Kinda pricey for the team for a role player if you were signing the checks, especially with him being over 30 and considering the injury threat, but it is done.

So that's $17.5 mil for 5 years. I'd say that's really good for Nick's services.

justin :@Joe

I wanted West and Reece Gaines.

It's amazing how fast Reece Gaines fell off the map. He looked to be a good pro....

Quality bigs are sooo valuable in the NBA. They don't have to be the star, but they have to be in the rotation and doing the dirty work and prepare to step in for injuries.

Collison is just one of those guys that does what he does and the team is better for it.

Sam Presti = sallary cap genius.

We only have to pay nick and thabo 6 million in 2013

AWESOME!!! Presti strikes again! Using this year's unused cap room to ink Collison accomplishes two things. It assures that cap space doesn't go to waste and it allows us to pay Nick less in future years when we're going to need that money to sign FAs or extend Russ, Serge, etc.

BRILLIANT PRESTI!

Contract Stipulations: (via Mark Stein)

Leave it to Oklahoma City Thunder general manager Sam Presti to conceive a contract extension for glue-guy forward Nick Collison that forces me to consult every salary-cap reference book I can find.

This is a fun one.

Sources with knowledge of the contract specifics told ESPN.com that the value of the four-year extension that starts in the 2012-13 season is a modest $11 million and change. Highly favorable numbers for the Thunder.

However ...

The Thunder -- as a team roughly $6.5 million under the salary cap before re-signing Collison -- took advantage of their below-the-cap status to unexpectedly award Collison all of that space as a signing bonus that takes his 2010-11 compensation to a whopping $13.3 million.

Signing bonuses in extensions are usually pro-rated through the life of the contract. Teams under the cap, though, can apply the entire signing bonus at the time the extension is signed, as long as the bonus doesn't exceed the available cap space.

So Oklahoma City's motivation here is fairly obvious, no matter how strange it looks to suddenly see All-Star dollars attached to Collison's name in this season's NBA salary documents ... and then a smaller figure for the next four seasons combined.

This is OKC's thinking:

With Collison now scheduled to earn $3.3 million in 2012-13 -- and with his salary descending all the way to $2.2 million in 2014-15 -- Oklahoma City has secured a valued member of its rotation at a very cap-friendly price that puts the smallest possible drain on its payroll in coming seasons when the Thunder have to accommodate the extension raises due Kevin Durant as well as future extension receipient Russell Westbrook (and possibly Serge Ibaka).

Collison, meanwhile, can face this summer's potential lockout knowing he has long-term security that comes with the added bonus of getting a substantial chunk of extra change immediately.

The Wizards actually (and quietly) did something similar when they extended Andray Blatche's contract in September, but jumps in Blatche's deal weren't nearly as dramatic as the notification teams received Tuesday that Collison's salary-cap number for the 2010-11 season is now $13,270,000.

And if you're wondering why the Thunder did this with Collison as opposed to one of their more prized youngsters, it's because he's the one player they regard as a definite keeper who is currently eligible for an extension.

Jeff Green's window for an extension, remember, closed Oct. 31. Westbrook won't even be eligible for an extension for the first time until July ... and only then if there's no lockout.

A pleasure to follow everyone's comments here since I converted to the Thunder during the summer -- thanks.

But tell me . . . how unusual is this Green-playing-out-of-position situation in the NBA?

@Joe

I wanted West and Reece Gaines.

Congrats to Nick and the organization. I remember when he was drafted like it was yesterday. We all knew they were going for a PF and hoped this skinny kid named Bosh would fall to 12 but it didn't happen; and we all were praying that we didn't draft that Lard Ass Sweetney, but New York did instead, so we got Nick. A great pick.
_
I had no clue that David West would be the player that he is, but Nick was definitely drafted to be a banger and not a finesse jump shooter like West, but no doubt West is the better player.

I was also thrilled with Ridnour (being an Oregon boy) two picks later. He has never become the "Steve Nash lite" that I thought he might be, but still a very useful borderline starter in the NBA.

"third leading rebounder (1,143 rebounds) in school history." Didn't Aldrich push Collison down the list a little?

maybe we need to bet on this, loser has to propose to a thunder girl at a game

@dream catcher
If thats the case.. why did we sign durant and collison..

@dream catcher

I'm moving on from this discussion. You and I differ on the opinion that Jeff will turn down a better job for more money. I don't think that's reasonable to believe. The only things that's left is to see what happens.

@Anonymous

Not too shabby for SF aggregates. Below average for PF aggregates. Advanced metrics are pretty shabby.

Anonymous :@Jax
Raging Bile Duct
19 6 not to shabby

plus he is super clutch

Jax Raging Bile Duct :@dream
catcher
His role on our team is 38 minutes a night, producing at a very low level for a PF in this league. I’m sure we offered him what that production is woth. I’m also sure that’s why he turned that contract down. I’m sure he’ll get a contract on a team where he can play 38 minutes a night as a SF, and produce at good levels for a SF in this league.

He is no idiot.....

I'm not saying he is going to accept 4 or 5 million less right now when he knows he can work out something where both parties agree somewhere in between. He wants a solid contract agreed........however where I disagree will that he will accpet a slightly bigger contract for another team. I think he is going to stay here for maybe a tad less because he is loyal.

Mark! :@Steve H
I love Pietrus, but I’m not sure where he finds minutes on our team.
How is $7.7M for Gortat in 2014 reasonable?

I realize this is an extremely crude projection, but this yr he is putting up 5pts, 5rb and .8 blks in 15.8 min per. Project him out to 9pts, 9rbs and 1.5 blks for 30 min- Those aren't bad numbers- certainly better than what we are getting from Kristic for the same money. 7.7 is the high water mark for his contract. He has also been pretty injury free, and is young enough/new enough to the league to realistically expect him to improve. And don't get me wrong, this isn't my first choice- neither was the McGee idea. I'm just spitballing scenarios where we can address team needs by trading Green, as opposed to just letting leave for nothing.

@dream catcher

His role on our team is 38 minutes a night, producing at a very low level for a PF in this league. I'm sure we offered him what that production is woth. I'm also sure that's why he turned that contract down. I'm sure he'll get a contract on a team where he can play 38 minutes a night as a SF, and produce at good levels for a SF in this league.

@dream catcher

LOL what past? This is his first decision he will have to make as a professional - you're saying nothing has shown you that he will turn his back on this franchise. That's fine. But nothing has shown us otherwise, either. He hasn't had to make any contractual decisions. If he was so loyal, why did he abandon Georgetown after his Junior year?

You're making assumptions.

Inductive reasoning fallacies strike again.

@dream catcher
i think that just shows brooks stubborness

Look! Jeff Green isn't on twitter like the rest of the Thunder team, he must be ostracized and not part of the core group. :)

justin :@dream
catcher
“most players aren’t Jeff Green.”
What are you basing that on?

his past, and what he has shown off the court to date. Everything I have read and dug up on his past indicate he is extremely loyal and is a tremendous leader. Nothing has shown me he will turn his back on a franchise that gives him a starters minutes, even though there are good players behind him. Didn't you think it was weird that there was no question in Brooks mind that Green was inserted in the starting lineup right after his injury, even though Ibaka played great in his place and we went 6-1? OKC shows loyalty, Green will show it back.

@justin

His close, personal relationship with carefully worded press releases.

gr8ball83 :@f5alcon

True, and imagine how intimidating a giant billboard of Krstic throwing a chair across the street from Madison Square Garden would be, the Knicks are lucky we stole him

hahaha

@Anonymous
i dont hate jeff green, i want whats best for him, and the best for him is signing a big deal to start at SF somewhere. Would you turn down a 30-50% pay raise if a rival company offered you a position you were better suited for them your current job?

Oh, and I want Reggie Evans.

I like Green well enough; I just like Chewie more.

Jax Raging Bile Duct :@dream
catcher
They aren’t going to pay him what he deserves, they’re going to pay him what he’s worth to this team. Green is worth more as a starting SF to another team than he is as a starting PF on this team. Green will take the contract that he’s worth, and it will be good for his career.
When it comes down to signing a contract, attitude, character, friendship and loyalty will mean very little compared to fit and role on the court.

fit and role on the court? We Jeff Is getting 38 minutes per game this season, 37 last year, 36 year before. He knows his role on this team and thats a starter getting heavy minutes. Jeff Green seems happy in his role and I think at the end of the day that is enough to maybe take a tad less to play here.

@dream catcher

"most players aren't Jeff Green."

What are you basing that on?

@f5alcon
True, and imagine how intimidating a giant billboard of Krstic throwing a chair across the street from Madison Square Garden would be, the Knicks are lucky we stole him

justin :@dream
catcher
He has ties to Washington, DC. But the point is that Jeff Green’s not going to sign for less with an agent like Falk. Just won’t happen. Every team’s fans naively believe their homegrown players will take less for a lessor role.

most players aren't Jeff Green.

@Steve H

I love Pietrus, but I'm not sure where he finds minutes on our team.

How is $7.7M for Gortat in 2014 reasonable?

I like Jeff Green.

I just happen to be a bigger fan of the Thunder than I am of Jeff Green.

Green and Kristic for Gortat and Pietrus. Gortat isn't a very sexy option, but he would be a reasonably priced up-grade at center that would be a rotation player for many years to come. Magic are playing Pietrus and Richardson at the sf spot from what I can tell, so Green would represent a significant upgrade at that position, and a net gain for them IMO with Kristic limited to the 12 or so min/per not played by Dwight. Plus, I just read that Otis Smith says he isn't planning any trades for the near future, so you know he must be planning sopmething.

@dream catcher

They aren't going to pay him what he deserves, they're going to pay him what he's worth to this team. Green is worth more as a starting SF to another team than he is as a starting PF on this team. Green will take the contract that he's worth, and it will be good for his career.

When it comes down to signing a contract, attitude, character, friendship and loyalty will mean very little compared to fit and role on the court.

Nobody hates Jeff Green.

@dream catcher

He has ties to Washington, DC. But the point is that Jeff Green's not going to sign for less with an agent like Falk. Just won't happen. Every team's fans naively believe their homegrown players will take less for a lessor role.

dream catcher :

justin :Also, if Jeff Green was so committed to the Thunder and willing to take less to stay here he would not be represented by one of the biggest power agents out there.

Roy HibbertPatrick Ewing Jr
what do those 2 players have in common? both Georgetown players and both are clients Falk. I just think Falk has some tie to Georgetown and thats why Green is his client.

You can add Greg Monroe to this list.