Westbrook and Durant: Are they too good for their own good?

the thing bout okc is they will fight for every 82 games...which is a rare trait for most teams in the nba. their teamwork on defense is jus awesome ! against new orleans, it was a block fest !

@DizzyDai
In my vast zombie apocalypse experience I've found people to be smart, resourceful, and tactically sound. I've never known a zombie to sneak up on a person in real life. It just doesn't happen.

@Sammy
*...might not be enough...

@justin
Would you rather take Varejao if the deal is there (Aldrich, expirings and both firsts), or would you rather wait for the offseason and hope that we are able to snag Gasol or Nene under whatever the new conditions of the new CBA are, knowing that we may have to overpay either by quite a bit (and that even that might now be enough to get Gasol, since it seems Heisley is in the mood to spend money)?

@DizzyDai
Sure, but stupid people can be written smartly. The writing on The Walking Dead pales in comparison to every other show on AMC. I do have hope for the future, though; a regular 13-episode season will allow them to develop characters at 'normal' pace for a cable show, and Darabont obviously wasn't impressed with his writing staff either, else he wouldn't have fired them all.

Varejao would be great on this team but I'd be worried about our offense with him and Serge starting.

@Floppy Punch!

Aren't people dumb in real life?

@Floppy Punch!
Eh, we disagree. This isn't a blockbuster movie, this is tv, and I feel the acting/execution are as good as any show.

Keith :@Floppy
Punch!
People are always the real monsters, and that’s what is being built up.

Poorly. The theme isn't the problem, it's the execution.

@Steve H

but Varejão's contract is loaded with incentives, he'll never get the full 35 mil... and his contributions are much more important on defense and hustle, and not on the scoreboard.

but yeah, it has to be in a situation where we still have enough money to give Westbrook a max and retain some flexibility.

Mrs. Daily Thunder :@Floppy
Punch!
I’m a teacher in a public school so season four was my absolute favorite season of any show I have ever seen. They were spot on about the public school system.

One thing that was consistent through all five seasons was the creator's commitment to the realistic depiction of the operations of organizations. From the gangs to the Police Department, to City Hall, to the School System, to the Newspaper. That was always fascinating, always honest.

My problem with season four has more to do with it's narrative structure (especially in it's relation to the previous 3 seasons) and it's dramatic presentation. The last two seasons were more conventional and less clever in their storytelling, and more emotionally manipulative in some ways--pulling heartstrings with the kid's stories was simply too easy. Also at times the grittiness and vulgarity almost bordered on self-parody.

@Floppy Punch!
I think you just don't like zombies. The characters have only been around for 5 episodes and all have pretty unique backstories. Further, the zombie genre in general is about humanity. People are always the real monsters, and that's what is being built up. As for dumb decisions, welcome to group politics. Heroism gets people killed and the biggest personalities always take over, no matter how dumb or corrupt. The point of the apocalypse is fear, and thats how people act when scared.

@TaoMaas
I still believe we need an all-star caliber center to be a contender. Cartwright or Parrish would be more than enough, assuming we are talking about pre-injury Cartwright and pre-over the hill Parrish. My main point is just that I hope Presti sees that the team isn't complete, not that it just will just figure everything out on its own.

@Sammy- Varejao is in his 6th yr and putting up 8 pts 9rbs in 31 min per game. Would definitely be a nice upgrade over Kristic in the short term, but I don't see his game improving much at this stage of his career, and I worry that the next 4 yrs of his contract at 35 mill might be to steep a price to pay. Presti is going to have to back a truck loaded w/ cash up to Russel's house nxt summer.

Keith :@Floppy
Punch!
Walking Dead is not overrated, it was simply oversensationalized in the first season. They added too much unnecessary drama within the characters, but the premise and source material blow away most everything on tv today.

The source material may be fantastic, I wouldn't know, I've never read it. It seems that reading the comics first makes for a better viewing experience because every fan of the comic wants to try and convince me how great the TV show is. But, the TV show stinks. It is filled with stilted, poorly realized characters who make stupid decisions. The dialogue is embarrassingly bad, the plot is uninspired, and the zombies are not really all that scary. If the people on the show weren't so consistently dumb, the zombies would never kill anyone.

@Keith

How much of an upgrade do we need in the middle? I get the feeling that Presti may be looking for Bill Cartwright or Robert Parrish...not Kareem or Shaq...while leaving cap space in case the equivalent of either of the latter becomes available.

Sammy :
I want Andy Varejao. Green would make sense for them, but I don’t know if they’d be willing to trade for JG when they could just sign him outright this summer. Maybe a package of Aldrich, both 1sts, and expirings would get it done?
The way our roster is developing, I think varejao would be enough to make us a true contender. True, he’s not the best positional defender, but he’s the best pick and roll defender in the game and an Ibaka/Varejao combo would be very effective. He’s not the post scorer that a lot of us have been pining for, but with the way Westbrook and Ibaka are developing, I don’t think that’s as improtant as we made it out to be last year. Varejao does do somethings well on offense. He’s very good at moving off the ball; he’s got great timing on his backdoor cuts, and he makes them frequently. What are your guys’ thoughts?

I've said it here, I'd love to get Varejão, his energy would be a great fit with our guys and he's a great defender.

I still think he's an underrated offensive player, I've watched him many times have great games with the brazilian national team, where we had some plays designed specifically to get him the ball inside on dribble drives by the PG, and he was very effective finishing at the rim, and he would be a beast on the offensive glass together with Westbrook and Ibaka.

and I don't know, maybe Green is playing well enough for the Cavs to consider getting him on a sign and trade or something, Green makes more sense to them than keeping Varejão, he would instantly be their best scorer and go to guy.

@TaoMaas
I hope it means Presti is looking for a big man upgrade and not satisfied with what we have. I hope it doesn't mean he just wants to keep waiting forever.

@Floppy Punch!
Walking Dead is not overrated, it was simply oversensationalized in the first season. They added too much unnecessary drama within the characters, but the premise and source material blow away most everything on tv today.

When Presti says, "We're not ready", I take that to mean "We're not ready to dominate (not only now, but in the near future, too)." The Thunder most certainly ARE ready to compete. But we're not quite in the Lakers/Celtics class yet, and I think that's where Presti hopes to take us. Actually...I don't think that's quite right. I think Presti is shooting at a target beyond the Lakers/Celtics.

Vaden is shooting .429 from 3pt range in the D League. Elijah Millsap is hitting .455%.

They can't be any worse than Cook right now.

@Floppy Punch!

I'm a teacher in a public school so season four was my absolute favorite season of any show I have ever seen. They were spot on about the public school system.

Sammy :I want Andy Varejao. Green would make sense for them, but I don’t know if they’d be willing to trade for JG when they could just sign him outright this summer. Maybe a package of Aldrich, both 1sts, and expirings would get it done?

That sounds like a good pairing. If Varejao wasn't such a wussy flopper I'd actually agree. I don't think I can root someone that flops that much.

@Floppy Punch!

I know the Walking Dead is not very exciting, but I'm really happy that the story in the graphic novel is being brought to a larger audience.

Other Thomas :Cole Aldrich 8/10 and 4 blocks today. Also the second highest +/- after Ryan Reid (who is a monster on D). I have a feeling we may see Reid as an NBA player, he just makes plays on D. Shutdown big guy off the bench is in his future.

Really good to know that Presti didn't completely waste a pick on Reid. I wish I watched that game last night.

Sammy :Simmons’ recent podcast with Steve Kerr is pretty good. Mostly about non-Thunder stuff, though Kerr does say that he talked quite a bit with Presti over the summer, and he said the one thing Presti tried to drill into Kerr was “we’re not ready, we’re not ready, we’re not ready, people’s expectations are crazy, we’re not ready…”
I wonder what Presti’s thinking now with the jump Westbrook made. I think we’re so so close right now to getting the team into contention… just need to find that last piece.

I bet Presti was hoping to get everyone extended before everyone became superstars. Keep it quiet. We're no good. ;)

Mark! :@justin
I don’t think either will have to give up much. Chances are we won’t have a strong third player, so those two can keep chucking all they like. And we’ll still be pretty good IMO. A little easier to guard than teams w/ a legit third man, but still tough.

I'd be okay with Green, Ibaka, and Harden taking turns as the 3rd man. If we could keep the team together.

@floppy punch
I'm with you on Terriers. Wire seasons, I'd go 3, 4, 2, 1, 5. I watched both Boardwalk Empire and The Walking Dead. I have hope that the second season of the walking dead will turn out better than the first; there are nice things going on and the premise has a ton of promise, but, yeah, the depth and characterization is severely lacking. Wonder how darabont firing his writing staff will affect the second season. I've grown more invested into boardwalk empire the deeper into the season we get, but it's no Sopranos. Entertaining, though.

Ethan :
Great article, Royce. Now do one on my current favorite show, “THE WALKING DEAD.” You could work in zombie sonics and everything.

I like to take every opportunity I can to state that "The Walking Dead" is the most overrated new show on television. Dull and clichéd. "Boardwalk Empire" would be second, but it's quite a bit better.

Now, "Rubicon" on the other hand was pretty decent. Not great, but interesting. It had pacing problems, and I don't think the creators quite worked out how a powerful private intelligence agency would work, and it probably asked too much of its audience in terms of patience. But I liked its mood and style. It owed a lot to older spy/suspense movies like "Three Days of the Condor" and "The Conversation". Alas, it was cancelled.

But, the best new show on television just ended its first season this week. "Terriers". It had a worthless advertising campaign and has a terrible name. I think few people have heard of it, and those who have probably have no idea what it's about. It's a private detective show, somewhat noir, complex plotting, brilliant characterization and brilliant acting. The ratings were rather low, so it's unlikely to be renewed, but the 13 episode season can stand on its own.

P.S
Omar and Brother Mouzone were cartoon characters, Season Five sucked, Season Four is overrated, Season Two is underrated, and Season One was so groundbreaking that it may be impossible to judge it in relation to the other seasons since it basically created and taught the viewer the language and narrative tools used to tell the story--it'd be kind of like trying to look at your own eyeball.

I want Andy Varejao. Green would make sense for them, but I don't know if they'd be willing to trade for JG when they could just sign him outright this summer. Maybe a package of Aldrich, both 1sts, and expirings would get it done?

The way our roster is developing, I think varejao would be enough to make us a true contender. True, he's not the best positional defender, but he's the best pick and roll defender in the game and an Ibaka/Varejao combo would be very effective. He's not the post scorer that a lot of us have been pining for, but with the way Westbrook and Ibaka are developing, I don't think that's as improtant as we made it out to be last year. Varejao does do somethings well on offense. He's very good at moving off the ball; he's got great timing on his backdoor cuts, and he makes them frequently. What are your guys' thoughts?

I've been following the site (and the Thunder) for some time now. This is my first comment, so let me say thanks first. Thanks. A lot.
That being said...
I think you are correct in saying that this issue is "manufactured by the fears of fans" but that doesn't mean that there isn't an issue. We have all seen it: In need of a clutch basket, KD gets the ball, takes a few playful dribbles around the three point line and spots up. It looks rushed because it is. As we watch the shot bounce off the rim, deep down we all consider the same thing: Durant plays as if he needs to be "the guy." His absence from a few of the games this year only reinforces the fact that this is not entirely true. KD doesn't need to play like LBJ did for the Cavs. (Sadly, something about his play this year is very reminiscent of the former King of Cleveland's).

But i don't think that there is an alpha dog issue, or a two players to talented for each other issue, but rather an issue of youthful immaturity. In Europe this summer KD dominated because he could; no European team had anyone physically gifted enough to guard him. Back in the states, KD has played more like he did in Europe--which makes it appear as if he isn't respecting the talent of the rest of the team. By sitting out and watching the team succeed in his absence, he might have a new perspective on his role--that he may be more inclined to entertain other options before trying to create on his own. It's a team game; everyone needs to be a facilitator, although some (JG, Thabo, NC) more than others (Rus, KD).

I only exclude Rus from discussion because the man is playing better basketball then anyone in the league--and I am a firm believer in feeding the hot hand.
Here's to KD's successful return. And team play.

My estimate that everybody else is getting about 20 shots now is probably a few high. I didn't discount enough for fewer game appearances off the bench. But you can get the general scale on the shot fit issue.

A future without Krstic, less shots from the replacement big and the 5th big and moving to no meaningful 5th guard would provide room enough, all else equal, to allow Ibaka the shots to be an 18 pt per game scorer with some remaining flex. But if you want the replacement big (Aldrich, Mullens or Pleiss) to shoot as much as Krstic or just not much less then you haven't saved much to redistribute and if Harden eventually gets most or all of the 5th guard's shots then it will also be tougher.

Seems very very difficult to take shots for Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Green and Ibaka fully to each individual's max potential or desire. The team is getting about 81 FGAs per game. At the current average rates it is Durant at 21, Westbrook at 17, Green at 15 that is 53 right there and pretty rare. Without the injuries they probably couldn't have done this. If Ibaka took 13 and Harden say 9, instead of their current rates, then you'dbe at 75. So basically everybody else would share 6 total shots per game (down from about 20 now). Play faster would make very modest difference.

You could go Durant 18, Westbrook 15, Green 13, Ibaka 11 Harden 8 and everybody else would share 16 total shots per game.

@John-o

To get 18 pts per game Serge would probably need about 13 shots per game based on his current accuracy and FTA rate. At his current shot rate he would only get 10 shots per game by playing 36 minutes. To get 13 shots in 30-36 minutes he'd have to increase his usage by 30-60%. You'd need to take 5.5 shots per game from others. It could be done though. I'd rather only part came from other bigs and part came form perimeter guys but there are options. Obviously whether Green is still in the equation as big as now or even bigger would be a huge factor affecting Ibaka on shots and maybe minutes.

Do you think having Westbrook and Durant gliding towards their cooperative apex would make it impossible for Serge to develop into a 18/8 guy? There just aren't enough touches to go around.

@Other Thomas
He posted in his most recent blog that they call fouls differently in the D league and it took him a little while to get used to it.

Cole Aldrich 8/10 and 4 blocks today. Also the second highest +/- after Ryan Reid (who is a monster on D). I have a feeling we may see Reid as an NBA player, he just makes plays on D. Shutdown big guy off the bench is in his future.

I'd look at the 2004 Pistons as an example where, although Chauncey was Mr. Big Shot or whatever, they really operated as a team and got the most points off Hamilton screens. This team buys into the whole defense thing, and Durant of course can be far better...

I reeeeeeeeeeeeall wouldn't worry. The two alpha dogs thing is not an issue whatsoever, in fact most teams need multiple stars to win. In Miami they're having trouble developing a gameplan because James and Wade generally play in a similar way, high picks and dominating the ball. Neither is waiting for a kickout to spot up. Durant and Westbrook have completely different games that can complement each other, as Durant should be run off screens anyway while Westbrook can attack if that option is taken away.

Another reason durant and green's minutes are so high relative to the league is because nearly every game we play comes down to the wire. Its rarely been a blow out either way so the starters have always been in at the end. Might skew it a tad. Not nerely as much as the overtimes though.

Maybe they don't both have to always play 2 way strong but Westbrook and Durant can't lay the defensive leadership off on Thabo, Nick, Serge and others. The Laker and Celtic stars got help too. But they probably have to be at least half of it.

If Westbrook and Durant want what Pierce and Garnett and Kobe and Pau got they'll need to play 2 way strong... at least when it really counts.

@Mark!

Some star wing probably signs with them or comes in a trade in the next year or two. I assume Jamison eventually moves. They probably should be willing to change anything but Hickson-Varejao in the short-term and even one of them might need to be changed.

@justin

yeah they did but maybe just once.

Hard to have 3 big scorers and have a good defense but the '08 Celtics did it- with 2 stars clearly 2 way strong and one of the top defensive coordinators. And despite all that excellence they barely survived 2 series.

Run TMC must have done it in Golden State.

I should have also said better defensive coaching directly.

So you might have to change the design away from a strong defense or change the current scoring distribution... or find a way to get back to strong defense, maybe thru some combo of lesser minutes for the stars so they can go harder on D, more star focus on it and better lineups.

Probably hard to have 3 big scorers and have a good defense.

Chambers went to Phoenix and formed a new trio over 20 points per game for 1 year and close for a few more and got 2 more conference finals out of it.