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ThunderNumbers: This year’s Thunder are looking pretty unique

by Andy Collard on December 28, 2010 at 3:15 pm 42 Comments

AP Photo

The Thunder is a team that’s hard for me to put a finger on. They are on pace to have the highest FT% and highest percent of total points to come from free throws in league history. Whenever a team is on pace to set an NBA record, it by definition is unprecedented, but the Thunder are peculiar in other ways, too. OKC’s top 3 or 4 players are perimeter players that mostly get their points from scoring inside or going to the line, while the big men shoot at a high percentage from outside. Are there any precedents for a team like this, and can we learn anything from these similar teams? That’s what I’m hoping to figure out in this column.

I don’t have the basketball knowledge or memory (or age for that matter) to just watch the Thunder play this season and tell you exactly which team they are most like, especially if you want to look back deep into NBA history. That’s someone else’s forte. I’ll stick with what I know, and that’s the numbers. So, statistically speaking, I’m going to try to determine which teams are most like the 2010-2011 Thunder, and hopefully these comparisons will put some perspective on how the Thunder are doing so far, and what we might expect from them for the rest of the season.

There have been a couple implementations of NBA statistical similarity used in the past. Neil Paine of Basketball-Reference had an article with NBA team similarity scores based on the Four Factors (eFG%, ORB%, FTR, and TOV%. If you don’t know, read the link, it may change your life). The article was pretty great, and his methods seem to produce good results comparing the most important parts of NBA success. However, the Four Factors aren’t everything. They capture the areas of efficiency for a team, but they don’t capture much of how the efficiency happens. For example, eFG% is the most important Four Factor, but there are many different ways to achieve a high eFG%. Good 3-pt shooting, post play, or a fast pace are all common methods to generate a high eFG%, but these playing styles are very different. The thinking is, as a season goes on, and as a team enters the playoffs, certain combinations of strengths and weaknesses could perhaps translate better to success, and the Four Factors method may or may not miss this.

To generate my similarity scores, I looked at a whole lot of parameters, trying to capture anything that would show a team’s playing style, basically anything basketball-reference keeps track of for all NBA teams after the 1980 season. I looked at the rates per 100 possessions for each team and their opposition for all the basic box score stats, pace, the four factors, offensive and defensive efficiency ratings, and win-loss record. I used per possession rates because I thought that would best capture tendencies, like how many times out of 100 a team shoots a 3, gets the ball stolen, etc. I created a percentile rank of each team in each category, to standardize the numbers.

The ranking was done both all-time, and within each year, because I wasn’t sure if accounting for the gradual changes in NBA style of play would help or hurt the method. (Is a team that is first in the league in FG%, more like the team that is just behind it in second the same year, or the one that is first 20 years later, with a different number? I don’t know.) To judge similarity, I then essentially performed a very large Pythagorean Theorem calculation, squaring the difference in rank for the two teams in each category, adding them, and then taking the square-root. This gives “distances” from one team to the next, with the less distance between two teams signifying greater similarity.

For anything like this, it’s important to verify the method gives results that make sense, using examples that one can reasonably predict. To check my methods, I looked at the ’09 Lakers. One would expect the Lakers to be similar to the ‘08 and ’10 Lakers teams, as they had much the same roster as previous years and the same coaching system in Phil Jackson and the triangle offense.

2009 Lakers similarity

* indicates a playoff team

It seems like ranking the teams in each statistical category both by season and all-time give fairly meaningful results, although using all-time ranking seems to skew towards teams within the same era. It is a good sign that the similarity method using season rankings show the 2009 Lakers as highly similar to some Chicago teams, given that they had the same coach and relied on superstar SGs, but played in different eras. My method using the broader range of stats seems favorable to just using the Four Factors, which makes sense given the 5-fold increase in parameters, but each seems good. Looking at each of the four methods and seeing if any names come up on more than one list seems like a good way to start.

OKCs Similar Teams: 2010-2011

*indicates a playoff team

So the Thunder’s comparisons seem to come from a lot of different places, but one trend I see is that there are a lot of teams with young perimeter talents. Mid-00s Washington and late-00s Denver show up frequently, in particular. I had always seen Denver as a good comparison for Oklahoma City, just because the Melo and Durant are so similar in their scoring ability, and the second best player on each team is the PG. I hadn’t actually considered the old Wizards team as a comparison, and I think it actually fits better than I wish. Their best three players were a high-usage PG (Arenas), SF (Butler) and an undersized-PF (Jameson), they got to the line a ton, scored a lot, didn’t play great defense despite gaudy steal numbers, and offensive rebounded well despite defensive rebounding poorly. Does that sound familiar?

Despite the promise that the pre-knee issues and gun scandal Arenas era of Washington, they never made it out of the first round of the playoffs, losing to the Cavs three times in a row. So what should we learn from this? I think we ought to worry at least a little about the Green-Jamison comparisons here, especially because I think Jamison (2 all-star games) was more highly regarded than Green.

Another thing to notice about the above comparisons is that only 30 of the 40 made the playoffs, and only 3 of the 40 comparisons made it out of the first round. These were a lot of teams with a good offense and a mediocre defense, and that doesn’t seem to translate to postseason success. Now, hopefully the Thunder can turn around their defense to something more like last year’s, because despite a similar win%, scoring margin, and personnel, the comparisons look much better for the Thunder last year.

OKC 2009-10

In the comparisons for the Thunder from the 2009-2010 season, there is one NBA champion (DET 04), several conference finalists, many perennial contenders, and 37 of the 40 teams were in the playoffs. I know a lot of people seem to “feel” like the Thunder aren’t playing as well as last year, and this is statistical evidence of that fact. Despite winning regular-season games at the same rate as last year, the way this Thunder team is winning doesn’t seem to be as sustainable in the playoffs. History suggests that they need to give up a little of this season’s offense prowess for some of last year’s defense if OKC wants to get out of the first round. I hope they do.

Thanks to basketball-reference.com for the data and just a really great and handy website. For more comparisons, or to see the database I used, it is available here.

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dream catcher
dream catcher 5pts

justin :
No chance the Thunder can be the Spurs, as we are missing two key ingredients: all time great coach, and all time great defensive anchor.

This team is not done developing. There are still many years before we reach our peak as a team. Patience everyone

Morgan
Morgan 5pts

@Ozark
At least our early season suckage has improved from 3-29 to 21-11

preachaman
preachaman 5pts

Ozark :Interesting comparison, but once again only 32 games into the season. This doesn’t take into account our historical early season suckage followed by new year improvement.

Best comment I've seen on here in a while.

Ozark
Ozark 5pts

Interesting comparison, but once again only 32 games into the season. This doesn't take into account our historical early season suckage followed by new year improvement.

DizzyDai
DizzyDai 5pts

@justin

I agree. I feel Brooks is too nice. Pop is know to give his players an earful.

DizzyDai
DizzyDai 5pts

From what I can understand the 84-85 Blazers starters were...

PG: Darnell Valentine, SG: Jim Paxson, SF: Kiki Vandeweghe, PF: Mychal Thompson, C: the legendary Sam Bowie

Clyde Drexler seemed to come off the bench at least for half of the season.

Thompson and Bowie were better rebounders than Green and Krstic.

Kiki was their leading scorer with 23.3 ppg. Perhaps Kiki could be comparable to KD? KD is a much better rebounder. Perhaps that makes up the difference between our frontcourts.

They had a few good free throw shooters, but I don't think they were getting as many attmepts per game.

I dunno?

AC
AC 5pts

@justin@holdmymartian

Tying your two posts together... Here's the Heat comps using season ranks.

SAS*1994-95
SAS*2000-01
MIA*2004-05
POR*1998-99
SAS*1999-00
UTA*1991-92
CLE*2008-09
MIL*1982-83
DET*1987-88
SEA*1981-82

And Heat comps using total ranks

ORL*2008-09
ORL*2009-10
CLE*2009-10
SAS*2006-07
MIA*2005-06
ORL*2007-08
CLE*2008-09
LAL*2007-08
CLE*2005-06
LAC*2005-06

justin
justin 5pts

No chance the Thunder can be the Spurs, as we are missing two key ingredients: all time great coach, and all time great defensive anchor.

DizzyDai
DizzyDai 5pts

I'm really interested in how we compare to the early 80's Blazers. I wish I knew more about that era.

DizzyDai
DizzyDai 5pts

@Chris Cooper

KD has a couple of tats. Harden doesn't need a tat he has The Beard.

DizzyDai
DizzyDai 5pts

@Thomas

Jerryd Bayless, D.J. Augustine, and Courtney Lee were drafted ahead of George Hill. In my opinion Hill was the 4th or possibly the 3rd best guard in the 2008 draft (depending on one's view of Mayo and Gordon).

Neal went undrafted in 2007. He played in Europe a few years and apparently caught the attention of the Spurs scouts.

While watching the game last night I could barely find anyone the Spurs roster that was not drafted by San Antonio. Besides Jefferson, Udoka, Bonner, McDyess, and Quinn its seems that every player on the Spurs roster was brought into the NBA by San Antonio.

Splitter, Anderson, Blair, Hill, Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, Neal are all San Antonio guys.

I really believe OKC plans to keep developing talent within or taking chances with underappreciated players just like SA.

Chris Cooper
Chris Cooper 5pts

My concern with the Thunder is the defensive intensity. I have a theory but I'm sure it's as fragile as . . . well just fragile. To be a good defensive team in the 20-teens it's about team defense. To do that you have to have athletic players whith a strong basketball IQ and heart. I see the athleticism and I see the heart. I just wonder if the youth of the team is a detriment to the basketball IQ but my real fear is that we may be too NICE. Seriously - KD, Jeff Green, Russell Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka. I don't think there is one tatoo among them. My Brother is a pastor and has a half sleeve. I am not saying they should all go get tats but I do wonder if we are a little to Nice. A few more flagrant 1's and 2's would set just fine with me and being a little more imposing might be just what the Dr. ordered for the Thunder. Again, just a theory.

Chris Cooper
Chris Cooper 5pts

My concern with the Thunder is the defensive intensity. I have a theory but I'm sure it's as fragile as . . . well just fragile. To be a good defensive team in the 20-teens it's about team defense. To do that you have to have athletic players whith a strong basketball IQ and heart. I see the athleticism and I see the heart. I just wonder if the youth of the team is a detriment to the basketball IQ but my real fear is that we may be too NICE. Seriously - KD, Jeff Green, Russell Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka. I don't think there is one tatoo among them. My Brother is a pastor and has a half sleeve. I am not saying they should I go get tats but I do wonder if we are a little to Nice. A few more flagrant 1's and 2's would set just fine with me and being a little more imposing might be just what the Dr. ordered for the Thunder. Again, just a theory.

4razr
4razr 5pts

It might work if they can learn to play defense again, though.

4razr
4razr 5pts

The Thunder look like a team trying to draw fouls to make up for the fact they can't shoot. Not a long-term winning strategy

daniel
daniel 5pts

This may just be the alcohol talking, but is it just me, or will the 1st team All-NBA roster be really full this year? You have the regular Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Howard up there, but then you also have Dirk, Amare, CP3/DW, and our own KD right there too.

Lebron is a lock for one of the forward spots, so KD is going to have to compete directly against Amare and Dirk for the 2nd forward spot. They're all performing at about the same level, but Dallas is really surging now, so Dirk may get the spot over KD....

Greg
Greg 5pts

I think Sam Presti knows a thing or two about how the Spurs team is put together. We'll know more within 6 or 7 months.

gr8ball83
gr8ball83 5pts

Think any of the Raptors slammed the ball down on Dallas' court after the win tonight? I really hope we win in Dallas, the last game gave me even more reason to hate them, plus I'll be at the game. Maybe Green would have a victory spike as payback. I can hope right?

Thomas
Thomas 5pts

@DizzyDai
I was watching this game with big contributions from George Hill and Gary Neal and I just thought, the Spurs have to have the best scouting staff. Period. Presti should know those guys. I wonder if he's hired anyone from there or if not if he's considered doing so?

DizzyDai
DizzyDai 5pts

I'm lovin' this Spurs game. Every NBA team should study how San Antonio puts a team together.

holdmymartian
holdmymartian 5pts

@AC I couldn't pull it up but I believe the problem was my in-laws computer. If someone post some of the close comparisons of the Heat I'd appreciate it much.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@thunder tim
im not sure how to could be worse than thabo playing PF and the other team getting all the rebounds.

AC
AC 5pts

@holdmymartian

If the link to the database works (it should but I'm in an airport so I can't check), you can see all the comps for every team since 1980 and play around with things. Ill work on visualizing the distances in network diagrams, but that's something Ill have to make up as I go along. Let me know if the google doc works, its a lot of data.

AC
AC 5pts

Hope everyone likes the article. My new years resolution is the submit articles more consistently. Next up I'm going to visualize this data with a network diagram.

As always, feedback is appreciated!

holdmymartian
holdmymartian 5pts

It is really a good format Andy. Can you plug other teams into it (For example this years Heat) or did you do it only for our beloved Thunder?

thunder tim
thunder tim 5pts

@f5alcon

Oh my goodness, we'd have the ball stolen from us every time down the floor. Shoot, that group might not even get it past half-court!

thunder tim
thunder tim 5pts

Another good one, Andy, thanks! One hopeful thought is that if we compared this squad thru 32 games with last year's squad over the same period, I would think this group would look a lot better.

The cloud covering that ray of sunshine, though, is that were were supposed to pic up where we left off, not start over. My hope right now is that the step back we seem to have taken from the end of last year will give way to 2 (or 3?) steps forward by the end of the year as our young guys continue to evolve.

holdmymartian
holdmymartian 5pts

@ F5alcon Let's do it.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@Jax Raging Bile Duct
i think 4 centers and PF would be better than some of the lineups we put on the floor. Aldrich, mullens, ibaka, durant, green lineup.

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

We lead the league in FT% and we're 5th in the league in total blocked shots. We trail the league in 3P% and we're 4th worst in the league at opponent 3P%.

With those rankings in those categories, you'd think we played 4 Centers and a PF 48 minutes a game. Yet we're wing dominated.

That has to be unique.

Brew
Brew 5pts

I would rate Butler a tad lower than Durant, I may be alone here.

Joe
Joe 5pts

Ooops. Meant to say no way does this team go far in the playoffs without huge jumps in consistency from Harden and Green, and maybe a few others.

Joe
Joe 5pts

This team is definitely unique....

No way does this team as it is go ver

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

Awesome. We're the '05 Wizards.

Despite the doom of that reality, it is such a great match I wish I had thought of it myself.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

i am not sure we can keep the free throw shooting percentage as high as it is, but the rate we probably can.

thomas
thomas 5pts

So this is it, the numbers those of us who feel there is something amiss about this year's squad needed. Clearly one shouldn' necessarily panic on this news but it isn't good all the same and to me represents the best argument for some sort of shakeup.

Trackbacks

  1. 12/29 Daily Links « OKC ThunderDome says:
    December 29, 2010 at 7:39 am

    [...] has some fun with Thunder numbers.  Even Joe Morgan would be [...]

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