How fat are the Thunder? Comparatively, not very fat at all

Not sure all of the reasons immediately but the high eFG% accompanied by at least some passing is surely part of it as the formula likes that combination. Rebounding gets less credit than I would give it.

Can you go into detail on how or why Harden is valued so highly? I find that very interesting.

justin :@DSMok1

I dunno, I’m all for numbers and quantification but I think a cold evaluation of value out of context (i.e. team needs, depth at the postiions, scarcity of good players at the position, etc.) will miss a lot of detail. Maybe your caclulation accounts for some of this?

Na, my numbers are just "how good is he, how good will he be, and how much would that be worth to the average team." It's generic trade value. Obviously, team fit matters.

@DSMok1

I dunno, I'm all for numbers and quantification but I think a cold evaluation of value out of context (i.e. team needs, depth at the postiions, scarcity of good players at the position, etc.) will miss a lot of detail. Maybe your caclulation accounts for some of this?

You know, I haven't included the rest of this year in the analysis, and when you do, Gasol's contract is still worth a lot. It's valued at a +$19.8 million, Ibaka at +20.1 million, Harden at $36.2 million.

So your original Ibaka-for-Gasol might not be so outlandish as I thought.

@DSMok1

So I'm safe in assuming you wouldn't include Harden in a trade for Marc Gasol, then? :)

justin :@DSMok1

Just curious, but what’s James Harden look like in the same comparison?

Scary good and valuable: Value: $15,514,018 $18,171,521 $20,322,283 $21,988,606 $23,193,804 $23,961,180 $24,312,780

Cost: $4,604,760 $5,820,417 $7,636,387

18th most valuable contract in Basketball right now (which is 3rd on OKC, of course)

I wouldn't take a risk with Ibaka in a trade. But if I could find a way to get Gasol on a longterm contract, then I would trade Ibaka for that.

Yes, we would have to overpay to get Gasol. That's our reality here in this market. We're not the only team who has to face that reality.

I'd love to have both though. Gasol and Ibaka are polar opposites. Ibaka still has no idea whatsoever about how to function within an offense. It's either shoot it, or pass it back out to the PG to reset. Gasol on the other hand has a bevy of post moves, a soft touch, a great understanding of offensive ball movement (easy to see if you watch him play with Spain) and he passes well. Ibaka is threatening Mutombo's reign as the worst assister in NBA history. Gasol is very efficient offensively and is multifaceted there. It's silly that Memphis doesn't feed him the ball more often. Gasol is mostly grounded, but Ibaka is a high flyer. Gasol has the body to defend a bruiser, Ibaka is the ideal help defender. The compliment would be so perfect it will never happen.

kfmsooner :ESPN Rumors saying that the Nuggets are now talking to the Knicks. Chances of the Knicks landing Melo are 50-50…let’s get it over with, please.

Apparently the Nuggets told the Nets to stop leaking trade info or they would trade Melo to the Knicks. And of course that threat got leaked.

@DSMok1

Just curious, but what's James Harden look like in the same comparison?

Overpaying is not Presti style. The Green, Clips pick, and extras would be great, but I'd doubt the Grizzlies would take that trade especially with Gay as their starting SF.

I guess they could keep Green at the 4 and have Randolpch play the 5. Perhaps Z-Bo can help cover Green's issues at power forward.

justin :@DSMok1

How much of your evaluation is based on the fact that Ibaka is still on rookie scale?

Nearly all of it.

Gasol's estimated value over the next 7 years: $17,678,297 $17,898,989 $17,806,265 $17,411,475 $16,153,456 $13,640,890 $10,167,656

Ibaka's estimated value: $5,964,101 $9,812,983 $12,611,276 $14,424,843 $15,344,402 $15,383,469 $14,649,219

Ibaka's contract: $1,288,200 $2,253,062 $3,293,976
Gasol's: $4,466,666

That's some serious value for Ibaka based on his contract.

@DSMok1

How much of your evaluation is based on the fact that Ibaka is still on rookie scale?

ESPN Rumors saying that the Nuggets are now talking to the Knicks. Chances of the Knicks landing Melo are 50-50...let's get it over with, please.

justin :
Of course teams will overpay for Marc Gasol, teams overpay for centers all the time. It’s a rare case when a team like Atlanta can lock up Al Horford for 5/65 or whatever Andrew Bogut’s contract is for Milwaukee. OKC’s strategy for getting a center has been to shotgun spray the draft for the last decade… eventually you have to pay for one.
So what it comes down to is losing Ibaka and gaining a real starting center worth the risk of overpayment?

No

@Mark!
You may be right, but Gortat is a defensive center playing on an offensive team. He seems to be frustrated playing with a whole bunch of guys that don't care about defense. As I said, I am on the fence about Gortat...

@thomas
There's a lot to like about Gasol. He's a legit 7 footer with a wide body, only 25 years old, averaged 14.6 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 1.6 bpg last year, seems like a good dude and would be OK as a 3rd/4th option for us. His numbers are down this year, but playing next to ZBo, he looks a little frustrated. Sure, he has problems, as does everyone, but he is a perfect fit on our team. An Ibaka/Gasol rotation is a far superior defensive option than Green/Krstic since Gasol would complement Ibaka's game nicely.

The only problem is his RFA status, which is why I wouldn't trade Ibaka or Harden for him. Green and extras plus the LAC pick? Absolutely, but other teams might outbid us for him.

Hopefully this posts...and doesnt' post like 3 times...

My comments keep getting lost in space...hmmm

Of course teams will overpay for Marc Gasol, teams overpay for centers all the time. It's a rare case when a team like Atlanta can lock up Al Horford for 5/65 or whatever Andrew Bogut's contract is for Milwaukee. OKC's strategy for getting a center has been to shotgun spray the draft for the last decade... eventually you have to pay for one.

So what it comes down to is losing Ibaka and gaining a real starting center worth the risk of overpayment?

@kfmsooner Frye and Gortat would be good for the Thunder. I'm not sure their contracts would be.

I'd prefer Varejao. Even though our frontcourt would be a little smaller.

You guys see Lebron's tweet during the Cavs-Lakers game?

Crazy. Karma is a b****.. Gets you every time. Its not good to wish bad on anybody. God sees everything!

Hate. That. Guy. Please let there be Karma coming his way.....

I don't understand some people around here and the obsession with getting Marc Gasol. He isn't that good. I would ask this, is it more likely that someone will overpay or that someone will get him for a bargain. I think it is much more likely a team will overpay for him relative to the level of production they will receive.

KD is fatter than Krstic?

Mark! :

justin :
Would anyone here include Serge Ibaka in a trade for Marc Gasol in order to get his RFA rights? Had an interesting discussion about this today.

No. Regardless of how you feel about Ibaka/Gasol, you’re gambling against teams offering Gasol a ludicrous contract in RFA. If someone offers him the max, what then? We lost a good rotation player and asset for nothing. I’m not betting against owners/GM’s doing something foolish in this league.

Not remotely. Ibaka's worth something like +$25 million in trade value; his contract's great.

@kfmsooner

No thanks to Gortat. Dude has done a whole lot of not much in Phoenix and there was certainly room for him to inhale a ton of rebounds and get easy points playing next to Nash. I don't see how he improves moving from Phoenix to OKC. I hate the last year of his contract too.

justin :
Would anyone here include Serge Ibaka in a trade for Marc Gasol in order to get his RFA rights? Had an interesting discussion about this today.

No. Regardless of how you feel about Ibaka/Gasol, you're gambling against teams offering Gasol a ludicrous contract in RFA. If someone offers him the max, what then? We lost a good rotation player and asset for nothing. I'm not betting against owners/GM's doing something foolish in this league.

Also, I think there's a hope that Phoenix blows up their team before the trade deadline. They were destroyed last night. There's a few pieces there that we could grab. Gortat would be the main asset that is attractive for us. Would you do either of these deals:

Gortat
Warrick

Gortat
Frye

for

Green
Expirings to match
LAC 1st rounder

I'm on the fence...only if we can't get another center, or if we could get Gortat without taking on the extra contract of Frye or Warrick. Frye would be interesting on this team. We do need a shooter in the frontcourt...

@DizzDai
For me, I wouldn't trade Ibaka for him. I also really like Ibaka. I would trade Harden, though, as much as I really, really like him. Finding a good shooter off the bench, which is what we under-use Harden for, would be easier to replace than a super-athletic PF who still has a lot of potential. I'm afraid we'll be left out in the cold through FA this summer. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll see. I still think Varejao is realistic in the off season, and should be cheaper after his injury. A sign-and-trade with Green while throwing in a draft pick might do it...

@kfmsooner

I agree, but ignoring that person seems to work best.

@justin

I would not trade Ibaka for Gasol's RFA rights. Of course, I'm bit of a fan/homer when it comes to Ibaka. So I'm probably biased.

Marc passes the ball better than Ibaka. That's about it. Actually, looking at their statistical comparisons for this year gives Ibaka the edge in most catergories. The only reasons to make this trade would be size and position.

My friends from Memphis hate Gasol. Say he's a whiny-baby just like his brother and difficult to root for (for what it's worth)

@Vega

Do the Knicks have anymore 1st round picks to trade? Actually, I just looked it up and it seems New York owns all their picks starting in 2013. I just thought there was a limitation to consecutive 1st round picks being traded.

Concerning the trade proposal, I've never been really interested in Pekovic. He could be valuable. Stashing away a 1st round pick sounds interesting, but not from a team you are making dramatically better.

Also while looking at future draft picks, I noticed that OKC's Clipper pick is from 2012. I keep thinking it is from 2011 for some reason.

@Anonymous
People like you are the reason I rarely read/post on blogs. This blog has been the exception b.c there are so few trolls. But I greatly dislike the poster that has nothing to say unless it is a flame of another poster...especially someone who thinks they are clever, but generally relies on calling the other person a homosexual/female, believing that is somehow funny. Please don't post any more.

I wondered if the Jokelahoman would say anything about the Rohde article...nothing in the online version about the mistake...I don't know about the print version, but the article itself has been modified. All Rohde did was take out the parts about homecourt advantage and leave everything else. I would have just taken the whole thing down b.c it is even more stupid now. But at least it isn't filled with horrible mistakes.

http://newsok.com/brooks-i-watch-the-whole-league-not-just-nw-division/article/3531181?custom_click=lead_story_title#

This site was way more fun when we were losing back in '08/'09.

@Anonymous
Hey the Don, haven't seen you around in a bit.

I'll definitely trade Ibaka to get Gasol. Why would you not? You can find an Ibaka type player much easier than a Gasol type, no?

@justin
I'll take Gasol. I'm still not sold on Ibaka developing further, and I like what Gasol has shown already.

@Anonymous
obvious troll is obvious. In other news 11:11 1/11/11. In honor of the occasion THUNDER UP

@Vega

Reasons? I've heard some divisive opinions on this.

@justin
Absolutely not.

Would anyone here include Serge Ibaka in a trade for Marc Gasol in order to get his RFA rights? Had an interesting discussion about this today. :)

Jimmer Fredette explodes for 47 tonight. Great NBA range, please draft him.

I wonder if we could get involved in the Carmelo talks?

New York receives:
Carmelo Anthony
Sebastian Telfair
Renaldo Balkman
Al Harrington (There are ways to make this work without Harrington.)

Minnesota receives:
Anthony Randolph
Mo Peterson
Eric Maynor
Knicks second round pick

OKC receives:
Nikola Pekovic
Roger Mason
A heavily protected future first round pick from New York

Denver receives:
Wilson Chandler
Danilo Gallinari
Bill Walker
Toney Douglas
Eddy Curry's contract
Protected '11 Memphis first round pick (From Minnesota.)
OKC's '11 first round pick

@justin
and in mullens case, it isnt like he sees the court much, so him eating fast food doesnt hamper his ability to ride the bench

When I say crazy I mean religiously stick to a macronutrient ratio, etc.

Not a lot of pro athletes are crazy about their diets until they get a little bit older.

Yeah....I'm still fat.

"little shoddy apartment off of Memorial"??? What kind of contract does he have?

@Anonymous
i know your not totally being serious, but he is 7 ft 270, with a high activity rate, 2000 calories a meal, while high, isnt absurd, probably should have around a 4000 calorie diet. Now yeah he could make healthier choices, but id assume they all have super high cal eating habits

I gained 5 lbs. from Oct. to Jan. Lots of second helpings ;)

@f5alcon
Body fat % is a much more useful measurement. It doesn't make obviously invalid assumptions (weight being independent of body type), and can be utilized for other, more in depth analysis.