David J. Phillip/AP Photo
After you’ve lost to a team at their place 11 straight times dating back to 2005 when the team was in another city, you’ll take a win no matter how you get it. Even if it had some ugliness to it.
First the good stuff. Kevin Durant was terrific (30 points, 10-17 from the field, 4-4 from 3), Russell Westbrook had a good overall game (23 points, 13 assists, eight rebounds) and Oklahoma City made the necessary plays late to seal away the game. Again it was free throw shooting that was big for the Thunder as OKC knocked down eight straight in the last 25 seconds.
The Thunder used two good runs to kind of separate themselves from the Rockets. The first came in the third quarter immediately after Jeff Green took an elbow to the face and had to leave the game. The Thunder stretched out to a 10-point lead by getting multiple stops and pretty much by scoring every trip. Then again late in the fourth, the Thunder funneled through KD and Westbrook created as OKC pulled ahead to an 11-point lead with under two minutes. Those two runs really are what made the difference.
Westbrook and Durant were obviously great, but Thabo and Nick Collison probably made the biggest difference in the game. Sefolosha’s defense (three blocks) was great as he kind of played rover with Kevin Martin out. He pulled down a career-high tying 13 rebounds and even contributed nicely on the offensive end with six points and three assists. Collison came in to try and check Luis Scola who was absolutely killing OKC. Serge Ibaka and Green tried to handle his fakes, spins and inside moves, but nobody was having any success. Collison did an absolutely terrific job, holding Scola to only three points in the fourth. Without that, OKC loses this game, no doubt.
But now some bad things. Green started off really well going 4-5 in the first quarter, but missed his next six shots. He responded well in the fourth as he went to the post again, going 2-4 in the quarter. He had 16 points which is good, but again, zero rebounds. Definitely a weird thing to see from your starting power forward. But it’s easier to overlook when your team outrebounds its opponent 49-35 and wins.
Also, the effort and defense in the last 30 seconds was horrible. The Thunder was completely content letting Aaron Brooks go to the rim for easy layups which extended the game and forced OKC to knock down free throws. The defensive effort overall tonight wasn’t good by any means, but it was at least passable. The defense in the last minute was seriously awful. And it could’ve cost the Thunder the game.
Instead, it’s a nice road win over a team OKC has had a lot of trouble with. The Thunder made some adjustments, made some plays and got great efforts out of a couple different guys. Some blemishes on this win for sure, but they’re easy to look past because in the end, OKC had more points than the other guy.
NOTES:
- Westbrook started the game 3-12, but finished 7-19. He hit four straight big free throws after starting 5-8 from the line. The lesson: Russell Westbrook is kind of clutch.
- Nenad Krstic was quietly really good. In 20 minutes he had 11 points and seven rebounds. He was good on the pick-and-pop and really gave OKC another good offensive option.
- Russ was hit with a technical after making a demonstrative gesture at an official. I love Westbrook’s emotion but sometimes he just gets pouty and pissy. He was missing layups and after every one was looking at an official to bail him out. That just bugs me.
- How big was Serge Ibaka in this one? 16 points on 8-9 shooting and six rebounds. He had the mid-range game going but was extremely active inside all night.
- OKC is now 14-3 in games decided by seven or less.
- After Eric Maynor hit Ibaka for an open jumper, Grant Long declared that Ibaka and Maynor’s chemistry was “legendary.”
- Scola is really, really good. But does it seem like he makes more lucky shots than any other player?
- And his hair seriously looks like the worst wig in the world. It’s like something you’d find in a drama classroom closet under a bunch of musky costumes.
- Despite Jeff Green not grabbing a rebound and missing some shots, he was actually pretty helpful in winning this game. He played some solid help defense and his post play was again good. More of that please.
- First time in eight games James Harden didn’t hit a 3. He was very quiet in this was going just 0-3 from the field (all 3s) but did go 8-8 from the line.
- Houston, 13-18 from the free throw line. OKC, 26-33.
- How was Shane Battier not called for an off-the-ball foul as he hugged Durant when OKC was trying inbound late?
- My least favorite whistle in basketball is when a player jumps into another guy when shooting. How is that a foul when the shooter created contact entirely? Westbrook did it to Jared Jeffries and got the call but it was just so ridiculous.
The shame is that the Thunder did put this thing away with three minutes left as the stretched out to a double-digit lead. It would’ve been nice for the starters to have at least gotten the last few minutes off instead of still having to stay locked in. With a big game against the red hot Magic coming tomorrow night, there’s a real possibility that there could be something left over from this game. Hopefully the home crowd will help carry the team as it’ll surely be a nice atmosphere for TNT, but the fact the Thunder let Houston come back to make it close is the only thing that keeps this from being a really nice win.
Next up: Orlando tomorrow night at home.
Stockton – Malone
Nash – Stoudemire
Magic – Worthy
Maynor – Ibaka
Legendary
I do agree Maynor and Ibaka have chemistry. Brooks should capitalize on these. Maynor sucked last night. Anyone else notice Ibaka's jump shot is pretty.
@qrex
That's not a choice. That's a bad lineup and a bad strategy, especially with Krstic at center. As we've seen. What am I choosing between?
@Sammy
Brooks wants to start 2 SFs, Durant and Green, and no PF. Of THOSE choices, who do we want guarding the other team's PF?
@qrex
Erm, okay, that's fine and all, but I don't know that that makes the situation any more acceptable. Someone still has to guard the opposing PF and deny easy offensive boards and that's something Jeff has proven himself to be horrible at.
@Sammy
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't mentioned, but rather that it wasn't necessarily front and center. Plus, the improved defense helped mask things that are now more apparent.
Sammy :@MartzMimicA bunch of us were saying Jeff was not a true PF last year. It was just drowned out by the general excitement of all the wins and playoffs.
That is true. In fact, I didn't really come to terms with how Green hurts this team until this season. Having a good team in my hometown was likely why I overlooked Green's weakness. Plus being a casual in the past, I didn't develop the critic's eye that many more experienced fans have.
@Sammy
What if we stop calling JG a PF but rather admit we are playing with 2 SFs and no PF? (as adapted from the comments on the Oklahoman game story"
@MartzMimic
A bunch of us were saying Jeff was not a true PF last year. It was just drowned out by the general excitement of all the wins and playoffs.
PNT :@brew
KD does not handle the ball well enough to play the 2 every night.
Doe Sef handle the ball more then Durant presently does? I think it would be the lesser of two evils, trading Green's problems at the 4 for KDs problems at the 2.
@brew
KD does not handle the ball well enough to play the 2 every night.
Anonymous :A lot of Oklahoma sports fans that I know(I am lived in OKC for over 20 years) look at their teams with rose colored glasses. They are winning so they must be the greatest. Every one of them. The euphoria is especially high with the Thunder since they are the newest thing and have, to this point, exceeded expectations. They can do no wrong.
I am enjoying the team’s success but can also see where improvement is needed and what things are actually hurting us. #1 on the list is Green.Last year he went for 15 and 6 a night. I told myself a realistic growth this season would be 18 and 8. Not gonna happen. Two zero rebound games in about a week is is not acceptable from an NBA PF… or a C, SF, SG, or PG for that matter.
My post...sorry. Did not log in.
@MartzMimic
Good point, in a sea of stinker, Green was just school in session. Now his problems in his current role are more glaring. Nice guy though, to be sure.I am still for addressing the larger line-up with KD at 2, Green at the 3.
First off, I'm home-grown, but the Thunder weren't the first team I ever followed. I was in the group that thought Cuban made the right decision to let Nash go. In retrospect, it doesn't look good, but I remember Steve being so worn down by the postseason that he was getting destroyed by Steve Francis and Mike Bibby.
The Allen trade wasn't made due to talent, so while Ray is certainly a better player than Jeff, it was a big part of what allowed the Thunder to be who they are today.
One perspective I've not see addressed is that Green's weakness has taken four years to really come to the forefront of the conversation. His deficiencies as a power forward were easier to ignore when you had Johan Petro, Damien Wilkens, Earl Watson and the like stinking up the joint. Now, Green is contrasted not only against the other power forwards in the league, but the other ones on his own team.
@Kivman
I'm not calling anyone out? I have no problem with former Sonics fans, they've been fans of the team a lot longer than I have, I was making a distinction between myself, who couldn't have cared less about the Sonics before Bennet bought the team, and people that have been fans of the team for decades.
gr8ball83 :@qrex
I would agree with you, I think its the former Sonics fans that have the biggest problem with Green, but did Ray really want to hang around for a rebuilding project? I doubt it.
It's just ridiculous to call out "former Sonics fans" at this point in time. It just creates divisiveness on this site.
brew :
brew :
I loved the trade at the time, retooling was needed. Would you seriously not rather have Allen on this team now, after what we know about Green?
So out of the 30 people here that have a problem with the way Green is used, a majority are ex-sonics fans. Outside of Justin, Sammy (who is not negative), and Joe I think, who do you think is not true-blue Okie. What is the real issue here?
gr8ball83 :@qrex
I would agree with you, I think its the former Sonics fans that have the biggest problem with Green, but did Ray really want to hang around for a rebuilding project? I doubt it.
Sorry, meant to quote gr8 here, whose posts I enjoy reading!
brew :
I loved the trade at the time, retooling was needed. Would you seriously not rather have Allen on this team now, after what we know about Green?
Exactly!
Shush shiki, you now reek of coffee and salmon-skin!
justin :
brew :I loved the trade at the time, retooling was needed. Would you seriously not rather have Allen on this team now, after what we know about Green?
Ray Allen was on the books for max money, so many of the subsequent moves Sam Presti made wouldn’t have been possible. Even today, I wouldn’t want Ray Allen on this team for $10 million. The trade wasn’t just about getting Jeff Green, it was about doing an actual rebuild which wouldn’t have been possible with Ray still around.
If all things aside, and Green and Allen are both RFAs next year, I would trade in a second, if only to unleash Ibaka. In reality, the case is moot.
Brooks was a pro player and is a pro coach now.If everyone in this site knows Green isn't a PF and cannot play well at 4,no reason Brooks doesn't know.Why does he give Green so much time?
Is it because he or Presti wants to find a right way to play Green?Or maybe he doesn't want to hurt Green's self-respect and makes our lock room disharmony.
brew :
I loved the trade at the time, retooling was needed. Would you seriously not rather have Allen on this team now, after what we know about Green?
So out of the 30 people here that have a problem with the way Green is used, a majority are ex-sonics fans. Outside of Justin, Sammy (who is not negative), and Joe I think, who do you think is not true-blue Okie. What is the real issue here?
brew :I loved the trade at the time, retooling was needed. Would you seriously not rather have Allen on this team now, after what we know about Green?
Ray Allen was on the books for max money, so many of the subsequent moves Sam Presti made wouldn't have been possible. Even today, I wouldn't want Ray Allen on this team for $10 million. The trade wasn't just about getting Jeff Green, it was about doing an actual rebuild which wouldn't have been possible with Ray still around.
I can help but wonder what would be the opposite of the "cynicism of experience."
Maybe the "enlightenment of ignorance?"
@qrex
I would agree with you, I think its the former Sonics fans that have the biggest problem with Green, but did Ray really want to hang around for a rebuilding project? I doubt it.
I loved the trade at the time, retooling was needed. Would you seriously not rather have Allen on this team now, after what we know about Green?
@qrex
I actually liked that trade...
brew :
I would counter that most of the anti-Jeff crowd seems to be home-grown here.
I would assert the exact opposite. It's the Seattle folk who are still bitter that Ray Allen was traded for Green.
Blank Space :
Many of the negative nancys are old Sonics fans who brought their cynicism of experience over with them. They remind me of OSU fans who just can’t quite understand that their team simply is not an elite team and each loss bruises their ego. Just relax and know your place.
I would counter that most of the anti-Jeff crowd seems to be home-grown here. Know your place? Yes massa, sure thing massa.
gr8ball83 :@justin
And we’re not even bringing up the “lets not talk about the embarassing last minute of statue defense” But at least we won in Houston finally.
Yeah that was bad. Blackmail quality stuff there.
@justin
And we're not even bringing up the "lets not talk about the embarassing last minute of statue defense" But at least we won in Houston finally.
@gr8ball83
Not only on Scola, but off the ball and especially when Chase Budinger put seven points on him in quick succession. Yeah, Ibaka couldn't play the PnR and didn't get in PP's face, KD lost Battier back door a couple times, Westbrook did a bad job with the usual things he doesn't try with. It was a bad defensive game for most of the way.
Green had a couple nice shows on PnR early in the game, though.
@DSMok1
Great link, very good read. The negative correlation makes a lot of sense; I've heard coaches say that if you box out well enough on D, the ball should be able to hit the floor. Offensive rebounding definitely would seem a lot less correlated, if at all.
On a more graphical, less complex note. The playoff odds site at sportsclubstats is up (it was still on last years earlier in the season)
http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NBA/Western.html
It has great graphs of playoff chances and how a game outcome will affect the odds for seeding or odds.
@justin
True, Scola was schooling Green when he was on him, but he made Ibaka look foolish every time he was guarding him too, so if both PF's are getting schooled, what next? Collison defended him perfectly, but that put Ibaka on Patterson who immediately hit 2 or 3 shots on him. If you're gonna call out Green's defense you need to call out Ibaka's too.
Kevin Durant's rebounding is also down from last season.
@gr8ball83
Can we still blame Green even when he's out of the game due to foul trouble?
I'm not as bothered at the zero rebounds in this game as I was in the Memphis game. I thought Green hurt the team a lot more on defense than on the boards.
About JG: Watching the game, I remember when he took his first shot (a three), it it missed horribly and I cringed. I'm thinking "Dude, you're not Larry Bird, quit taking 3's all time, you fool. There's as good as turnovers if you ask me". But then he hit a few in a row and I was like "Okay I'll take it but he needs to be inside more". Once again, he doesn't get a single rebound and still he pulls 43 minutes a game?! Rebounding is all about effort and imposing your will. How is it that little Russ Westbrook can outrebound our starting PF? Or how Colly can come into the game and instantly put himself into position to get boards but Green stays away from them like he's allergic to them? Does he not understand this is essentially a CONTRACT YEAR for him? We have other needs right now and can use that money paying him on someone who can actually help us get to the next step.
GAP :
Loved the recap and understand a lot of the frustration on both sides of the JG topic, but this line Royce?
He had 16 points which is good, but again, zero rebounds. Definitely a weird thing to see from your starting power forward. But it’s easier to overlook when your team outrebounds its opponent 49-35 and wins.
It’s really not that easier for me to overlook because THAT won’t work in the playoffs. BTW, for those who say that they’re tired of reading about this or that, should just skip over it. Goodnight all.
I understand you're saying that having everyone but our power foward rebound won't work in the playoffs, but are you telling me that if we out-rebound people by 14 in the playoffs and green doesn't have a rebound it won't be easier to overlook green's lack of rebounds? I will take 0 rebounds from Green all playoffs long if we out-rebound people like that.
Anonymous :Long should have gone Barney Stinson on us and called Mayner to Ibaka “Legend…wait for it…..Dairy”
Classic...though I hate to quote 'Anonymous' posters, still a great post...If we could make a trade that involves Jeff Green, Brian Davis and Grant Long, I'd be happy...
Stockton - Malone
Nash - Stoudemire
Magic - Worthy
Maynor - Ibaka
Legendary
@DizzDai
I had a nice post as welll...maybe our posts will get together out there...
“This is yet another Jeff Green should be traded for a handfull of magic beans comment”
The JG apologists are out today, as I knew they would be. He's our #1 liability right now. I can't watch him anymore, and I can't listen to other people tell us JG is not that bad. I can't even formulate sentences to describe how his play irritates me. 0 rebounds...sheesh...
@Kivman
I agree. I did address that post as well. Unfortunately my post got gobbled up by the DT Blackhole.
@DSMok1
Interesting article. The results in general are not that surprising since there are a finite number of rebound opportunities per game and multiple players from the same team going for most of those rebounds (as opposed to an infinite possibility of home runs that teammates are NOT competing for). The point guard result is the most interesting part of the article. I'm not sure I'm buying such a high number. It may be "generally" true since PG's don't usually have high rebounds or rebound responsibilities. Taking those general results and applying them, for example, to Westbrook (in essence, saying his rebounding isn't really helping the team) would be wrong (not that you are making that leap).
It's also interesting that the range of rebounds for teams is so low, especially taking into account (as the article mentions) "gravity factors" like pace, defense, and shooting for different teams.
What I take from the article is the obvious point that you don't want to load up on rebounders while forsaking other skills. Put three Kevin Love's on your team and they are just stealing rebounds from each other. Similarly, there aren't enough balls/shots to support three gunners on a team.
@hoopla
That Basketball Prospectus article seems really interesting. Unfortunately, I do not have a subscription.
@justin@Denver
aren't as intimidating at they once were. Who knows maybe we can even steal one at Staples?
@qrex
4-3 looks like it can happen, which is still a great success. Makes you wish they could have won the Memphis game.
justin :@MEM@DAL@HOU@LAL@DEN
Next seven games:
,
4-3 over the next seven games would be a huge success, with 3-4 being a more realistic success.
If the team goes 2-5 over the next seven games, which definitely seems possible, the team will have the same record at that point as last season. How would you feel about the team if this happened?
(This is justin's message, but this is not directed only at justin)
Does anyone want to update their predictions?
@justin
The ignoring comments part is just silly. You can't ignore a comment until you read it. The comments do not have titles that say "This is yet another Jeff Green should be traded for a handfull of magic beans comment" that would allow me to skip it. Anyway, the comment about the old Sonics new Thunder fans being the most negative about Green is interesting. I wonder if that is really true. If so, I would understand it, being a 30+ year Minnesota vikings fan myself. Years and years of promise to never see the ultimate goal of winning a championship. And it has been more than 30 years since Sonics-now Thunder fans had a championship.
Blank Space :
Many of the negative nancys are old Sonics fans who brought their cynicism of experience over with them. They remind me of OSU fans who just can’t quite understand that their team simply is not an elite team and each loss bruises their ego. Just relax and know your place.
Uncalled for comment regarding old Sonics fans. Don't like. "Know your place?" Very very immature.
@justin
New research has been coming out indicating that how many rebounds a player gets is mostly tied to scheme, not to skill. Phil Birnbaum did the research: http://sabermetricresearch.blogspot.com/2011/01/do-players-steal-rebounding.html
One interesting point: 96% of point guard rebounds are "stolen" from teammates. So all of Russell's rebounds are coming from somewhere--probably the frontcourt. Here's the breakdown:
5. As I said, every position had a negative correlation with the other positions on the team. Here they are:
-- PG: every extra rebound reduces his teammates' rebounds by 0.96.
-- SG: every extra rebound reduces his teammates' rebounds by 0.65.
-- SF: every extra rebound reduces his teammates' rebounds by 0.73.
-- PF: every extra rebound reduces his teammates' rebounds by 0.63.
--- C: every extra rebound reduces his teammates' rebounds by 0.65.