Garrett W. Ellwood/NBAE/Getty Images
Here are some of the eye-opening stats from the Thunder’s 2010-2011 season thus far. This isn’t an all encompassing list but more so the numbers that have captured my attention and even somewhat surprised me on which players seem to hurt and help the Thunder the most win it comes to trying to put a ‘W’ in the win column.
And yes, this is going to cause “discussion.” Believe me.
- The Thunder are 11-2 when Serge Ibaka plays 30 or more minutes a game (which means they’re only 12-11 when Serge plays less than 30; oh yeah, did I mention he’s averaging only 26 minutes a game right now over the season?). In the games Serge has played more than 30 minutes, he is averaging 11.46 points, 8.69 rebounds and 2.62 blocks in those games
- Oh, and the Thunder are 16-5 when Serge scores in double digits as well
- The Thunder are 10-2 when Durant scores 30 or more points; 18-8 if he scores 25 points or more
- The Thunder are 9-3 when Westbrook notches double digit assists. If he dishes out 8 or more assists, the Thunder are 12-5. You can guess what happens if he dishes out less and less assists
- Yet, Westbrook’s scoring seems just as critical to the Thunder’s chance at a victory, as the team is 15-5 when Westbrook scores 20 or more points (and are only 8-8 when he doesn’t)
And since he’s such a hot button issue (and rightfully so after last night’s debacle of a performance/indefensible amount of playing time with a visibly on fire James Harden just wasting away on the bench)…
- 1: the number of games Jeff Green has grabbed double-digit rebounds (to be fair, Green has grabbed 9 boards in 4 games this year…though to be REALLY fair, 1 is now the number of games Jeff Green has failed to grab a single rebound in a game)
- 15: the number of times Jeff Green has failed to grab at least six rebounds (where his career average for rebounds used to be) in a game. Also, the Thunder’s record in those games: 9-6, which is kind of troubling to me since the Thunder should realistically have a worse record in that scenario, i.e., you’d expect Green to be making more of an impact than that since he is second on the team in minutes played and third in scoring and, well, the starting PF
- Thunder’s record when Jeff Green scores 20 points or more: 5-0 (nice!); Thunder’s record when Jeff Green scores 15 points (his average) or more: 9-6
- Thunder’s record when Jeff Green plays 37 or more minutes a game (his average): 13-10, yeah, this one is kind of a biggie to me
Continuing the minutes played trend…
- Thunder’s record when James Harden plays 30 or more minutes: 7-4; Thunder’s record when Thabo Sefolosha plays 30 or more minutes: 11-4
- Number of Harden’s 30+ minute games that weren’t a blowout (at least a 12 point loss/victory) when the Thunder had a full roster of wing players/no wing injuries: 3, @Pacers, Mavs #2, Hawks on New Year’s Eve…yes, that’s really it, he’s been on the pine otherwise even if the ball glowed an amber hue when he touched it
- Number of times James Harden has shot better than 50% from 3PT land and yet did not get to play at least 30 minutes: 11 (their record in those games: 6-5)
- Thunder’s record when James Harden shoots better than 50% from 3PT land and plays at least 30 minutes: 5-0
- Thunder’s record when Thabo scores double digit points: 8-1
- Thunder’s record when Thabo (the Thunder’s SHOOTING GUARD) grabs 6 rebounds in a game: 10-3
- Thunder’s record when Nenad Krstic plays: 17-10
- Thunder’s record when Krstic plays 23 minutes or more (his average): 9-3…seriously, I know, right?!
- Thunder’s record when Eric Maynor makes a (singular) three: 9-4; Thunder’s record when Maynor shoots 38.6% from 3PT or better (his average): 8-4…so, um, shoot more, Eric!
And finally…
- Thunder’s record when Daequan Cook and Cole Aldrich play ANY minutes: 4-3 and 3-4, respectively
Now I honestly went into this expecting a few things here and not expecting a few things there, but the biggest thing that stood out to me is minutes played. In fact, it kind of overwhelmed me. What’s most interesting is that when Thabo, Harden, Ibaka and Krstic all get more minutes, the Thunder’s record is drastically better. We’re talking SIGNIFICANTLY better. But the question is how do we get two post players AND two wing players more minutes.
You know, if only there was a player who is already a fairly hotly debated person, who is getting a ton of minutes in the post AND as a backup wing, and could therefore easily get his already overflowing minutes per game average reduced for the overall benefit of the team…
Discuss.
I agree. Teams arent clogging the lane but their not afraid of our outside shot. They are playing off russ. Give him the mid range and our able to focus more on KD, ect.
@okc baby
Yeah bring in nash wouldn't work because it would clash with kevin and hardens development. Russ would be the 2 which means he would really be shooting the ball so I think it would take away from kevins shots. Then you would have to move harden to the bench. I think he should be pushing for the starter spot right now or at least more mins. Teams are just letting Thabo shoot and if he cant knockdown the shot its basically a turnover.
As far as Jeff mins go I understand he is struggling and his output is down but you have to realize even if he isn't hitting he represents a threat which opens the lane for westbrook harden and kevin to drive to the basket because you don't want to leave jeff. With ibaka the lane is clogged. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying this way is right or wrong I'm just saying I see why even tho his numbers aren't jumping out at you i can understand why he gets big mins. It doesn't allow teams to load up on russ and kevin and just clog the lane with defenders.
The only thing I want to get across is I want the 3 to stay together. I think in jeff case it seems he's over matched at the pf position but if you look at the people he guards are at or a lil above what they average so its not just him being played out of a position an overmatched they are doing what they do on a nightly basis. He's not a defensive stopper but he plays ok defense against bigger and taller opponents where the numbers they get arent outrageous.
@TylerD951
True I agree with everything you said but you can see the help defense isn't there either. Not just individually but screen and rolls the help for the helper is late. I also think getting to the line has saved the team and put them over in close games.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Anybody else worried about this game tonight. Its going to look good in HD but hopefully we look good on the court.
@Jon
Been sayin that. And this bringin in nash is a bad idea. Westbrook is not a good without the ball. He is not a very good role player.
@TylerD951
I think you comment more here than you do on GAF!
(Although discussion here is MUCH more civilized :))
@kfmsooner
I'm can't remember the contract details for Dalembert or Landry, but I'm very interested in the trades you suggested.
@KingGondo
I might be :)
@Bryan
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25346ya
Something like this?
Not a huge fan of the trade, but it's interesting nonetheless.
Dalembert, Krstic
Ibaka, Collison
Durant, Casspi
Harden, Thabo
Westbrook, Maynor
It's not the Dream Team, but it would sure help us close out the season on a good note!!!
That said.....
I think a deal for Dalembert and Caspi would be nice. It would give us a defensive presence inside (and I'd bet money Dalembert be happy to play here) and a nice shooter to round out the squad and do what Cook and Pete were supposed to do.
It's a new day Thunder fans. I have to say I feel a lot better after watching teh Spurs, Nugs and Jazz lose. While Green is clearly having some problems with his role on the team, I still think these guys can round out a decent season if Presit and Co. don't make any moves.
@TylerD951
You're right. As easy as it is to complain, we're still in position to get 50 wins even if our win % drops, and 53 wins might be enough to get the #3 seed in the West this year.
And as frustrating as it is to watch our rotation and minute allocation issues, it's encouraging that we have the guys on our roster to get the job done against most teams in the league (as long as the guys who are playing better PLAY MORE).
P.S. Are you the same TylerD from NeoGAF?
@Jon
It is a very long season but we are lucky to have the record that we have right now. Our propensity to get to the line and make free throws has been huge. Who knows how many close games we might have dropped if we weren't shooting from the line as well or as much as we have been? Our defense from last year is MIA.
@Hamza
Exactly I could see if they were 10 games below .500
In some games it has been westbrook forcing the action being out of control looking for fouls that arent there. If he gets better under control it would be ok but when he does that it takes his teammates out of the game. Sorry he's untouchable right.
I honestly think that the NBA season is a long one filled with ups and down throughout so to make a drastic change in the core three that just a year ago had the eventual NBA champions scratching and clawing in a series. I think coming in roles were changed and each individual was asked to do a little more so everyone is still adjusting. I think OKC will hit its stride just like it did last year and get a top 5 seed. If I'm not mistaken the Thunder record was worst at this time last year.
Dalembert is unhappy...he's not great, but better than what we have.
Sacto gets:
Green
Peterson
2011 Thunder pick
We get:
Landry
Dalembert
They can have NoNads if they want him instead of Peterson, maybe we have to give up Aldrich or Mullens...this allows us to be better on defense and the glass this year without compromising next year's FA crop of Nene, Perkins, Gasol, etc., and gives us a safety net to resign Landry or Dalembert or both if they work out.
@numbersguy
Sounds like a plan to me about setting Jeff up a lil more
SB needs to 6th man Green. Get him playing the 3-4 back up behind KD and Ibaka. Green along side harden with Nick in the middle is a solid hard working second unit. The problem with Green is that on the starting line up he is 3rd fiddle and he is struggling more and more with it. As a back up he is allowed to flourish and capitalize on strengths against other teams second units. he can't hold his own against most PF in this league, but would own most 2nd unit PF.
IF SB won't move him to the 2nd unit then Presti needs to make a deal for a PF or C who will, at the very, least get his nose dirty for some boards - oh wait wasn't Cole drafted for that reason?
anyway, dispite how lousy overall we have been playing, we have a solid record and hopefully we can sort out these issues before the trade deadline. Knowing Presti he dumps all the dead wood for incoming expiring contracts and significant contributor inside for the remainder of the season.
I have had the past few weeks off. I have watched more Thunder basketball then in the previous three years combined. SB either has no clue on what he is doing or he doesn't have the guts to sit people. We are one of the worst outside shooting teams in the league. Yet, at critical junctions we jack up outside shot after outside shot. We stop taking the ball to the basket. KD tries to go one-on-one and it results in a turnover. RW comes down the court and jacks up a jumper that is ugly. We go stretches of 5-7 possessions with nothing. Thabo get blown by way too much, he is no defensive stopper. I am a Georgetown fan, right now, JG flat out stinks!! We need to move him outta OKC. He doesn't look at all interested. Presti needs to make a major move soon or we will be falling in the standings.
@danner
I would think Kaman would be better than Nenad. Maybe?
Anyone else think it would be a great time to try to force Green into a 6th man role. He is hurting his free agency value with all those minutes.
i just got on the clipper blog and asked about trading jeff green, they all said they trade kaman but Deandre Jordan is apparently off limits since he is playing so well. Is jeff green for Kaman straight up a good trade tho?
fill*
Hell no. Do I think Nash is one of the greatest? Yes but is he a good fit for this team as of now. Nope. Westbrook is not good without the ball. And we have other holes to feel. Nash is not the answer. He is more of a dish washer. And we dont have any dishes for him. As of now.
obviously, i don't think it's gonna happen, but it's fun to think about, as long as it doesn't cost us Harden.. adding Nash to Russ and KD could be amazing..
in other news, thank you to Atlanta for beating Utah!
@GB
Nash would play, but Brooks would shift everyone up a position and Green would play 40 MPG at center.
Kerry :
‘They would be unbelievable with Nash,’ the source said. ‘What they really need is a center, but if Nash walks onto the court, he makes them better than any piece that Oklahoma City could add. ”
IF he walks onto the court. If he came here who knows if he would actually get to play. SB would probably have him sitting on the bench or say he provides veteran leadership in the locker room. If I was Nash I wouldn't want to come here and wonder if I was actually going to get to play.
I'm not saying this is happening, just wanted everyone to see this and see what people would think. I think were a long shot and I dont think Presti would part with Harden.
This is from the ESPN Insider
On Tuesday, a report from Sam Amick of FanHouse included word the Suns were "on the fence" about what to do with Steve Nash.
As such, it's reasonable to take a look at some teams that could be a fit for him if the team indeed decides to move their PG by February's trade deadline.
The Knicks are obviously in the mix, and ESPN's Tom Haberstroh added the Rockets and Thunder to the list as well Wednesday -- two teams with a bevy of assets to include in any such deal.
Two other teams that could show interest in Nash are the Trail Blazers -- who are reportedly dangling Andre Miller -- and Charlotte. The Bobcats were said to be shopping D.J. Augustin in hopes of landing a new PG, but the latest is new coach Paul Silas likes Augustin, so Nash may not come into the picture for them now.
Orlando reportedly was interested in acquiring Chris Paul when there were rumblings he could be on the move this past summer, and GM Otis Smith has proven he'll shake things up if it means bringing in talent to try and win a title before Dwight Howard hits free agency.
More on this from Haberstroh and ESPN's John Hollinger:
-- Ryan Corazza
ESPN's Tom Haberstroh
How Nash would fit with Oklahoma City
"The league is chock full of build-around point guards, which has cut down the pool of potential suitors to only a few candidates. But Oklahoma City's situation is unique, because what makes Westbrook an elite point guard is his elite scoring ability. And one league source believes that's exactly why the Thunder would be the scariest team in the Nash sweepstakes. 'They would be unbelievable with Nash,' the source said. 'What they really need is a center, but if Nash walks onto the court, he makes them better than any piece that Oklahoma City could add. It would take Westbrook to a whole new place as a player, since he can create at the 2.' The Thunder are flush with assets, including the Clippers' 2012 first rounder (top-10 protected), Morris Peterson and Nenad Krstic's expiring contracts, and a promising young player in James Harden."
I mean the Clippers starter at the 3 is Ryan Gomes, Green is a natural 3 seems like the perfect trade partner
watching the Clips/Nuggets game some food for thought DeAndre Jordan has 11 points, 19 boards, and 5 blocks! could we trade Green for this guy? if not Jordan doesnt his good play make Kaman available? both are better than anyone we have down low
Damn Jazz getting crushed
Bynum has gotten big
Atlanta's beating Utah.
Krstic is a good backup center and a below average starting center.
@numbersguy
he misses wide open shots. getting him to 20 points is a tough endeavor.
I think all of you are missing the BIG picture. We can win the rest of our games by simply setting up plays for Jeff Green. Get him to 20 points and light up the victory cigar!
nenad would be a great backup center
Nenad isn't that bad, he's a below average starting center who doesn't fit this starting lineup.
@okc baby
*his shot is worse........the list goes on. I would play any other big on the bench over Nenad.
He cant rebound, doesnt jump, is slow, is shot it worse.........
Nenad sucks
@DizzyDai
Unfortunately he was never that good of a rebounder. The funny thing is he was a really good scorer with the Nets before he ripped his knee up. I think he could score some in the post for this team if they actually cared to ever give him the ball other than 20 feet from the basket. He wouldn't command double teams consistently or anything but still. I don't think the team is as in bad of shape big man wise as perceived. The coach doesn't play a lot of them. I'm not convinced White can't play. Nobody knows if Aldrich can play. I can't believe he's THAT bad in practice to not get any run at all.
Here are some numbers concerning Krstic for this season…
zero 10 rebound games
one 9 rebound game
three 8 rebound games
three 7 rebound games
one 6 rebound games
three 5 rebound games
three 4 rebound games
NINE 3 rebound games
three 2 rebound games
one 0 rebound game
TEN games with 15 minutes or more played with 3 or less rebounds
FOURTY FIVE games over the past two years with 3 or less rebounds
I think that hurts the team.
While patience is good people shouldn't drink the we have years and years for this team to develop kool-aid so much. Of the 9 rotation players SIX are on rookie contracts. That has to be unprecedented. There is going to come a time where these dudes have to get paid. Who knows if they're going to resign Green. The fans don't want them to but obviously the coach loves him, we'll see what Presti thinks of him this offseason. Then Russ is up to get paid. The money runs out eventually. Even if the new CBA favors the owners more keeping this depth is going to be an issue eventually. Pretty sure the owner is not going to pay the luxury tax. Who's to say after two more years of being misused Harden doesn't want to go somewhere and be the man on a team. Or some team doesn't wildly overpay Serge on potential. Mark Cuban just gave a complete bum in Haywood like 50 million we don't think him or some other filthy rich owner would pay Serge 10 million or so a year? I really hope 5 years from now we're not the new age Shaq/Penny, Bullets Webber/Howard fans talking about what could have been for a team that didn't win anything. I'm not a "what if" dude but damn if Presti had given up the peanuts to get Camby last year this team would be so much better.
Jeff Green, Mo Pete (expiring contract) and Clippers first round pick to Phoenix for Steve Nash. Another leader on the floor and frees up minutes in the front court for Serge and Nenad.