Rick Reilly wrote a column on KD. It was a little weird, but I appreciate the effort: “NBA PR flacks keep telling me that Oklahoma City Thunder superstar Kevin Durant is “just like any 22-year-old kid.” They say he does not have a torrid affair going with his wallet or his mirror or his league-stomping 29 points per game. “Perfectly normal,” they insist. So I called their bluff. I met Durant in Chicago, and I brought along a perfectly normal 23-year-old kid — my son, Jake. We all three met in a hotel lobby and plopped down on a couch. “Let’s compare lives! Want to?” I said.”
John Hollinger with a thought on the Jeff Green situation: “I suspect he’ll get an offer from another team that Oklahoma City won’t want to match, and that they’ll insert Ibaka as a starter in his place. But much of this depends on the new CBA — if they can keep Green at a reasonable figure they will.”
Who’s going to have the next dynasty? Ric Bucher takes OKC: “The Thunder aren’t playing defense the way they did last season because they’ve come to realize they can outscore teams, and that’s always more fun. It’s also part of the growing pains of a young team. I find it somewhat funny that they’re a disappointment, even though they’re on track to win more games than last season, are leading their division and therefore assuring themselves of home-court advantage in the playoffs — which they didn’t have last postseason. Even more important, though, is that KD and Russ aren’t going anywhere. Nor are Thabo Sefolosha and Nick Collison, who are locked up for three years at incredibly economical salaries. They have all their picks as well as a Los Angeles Clippers pick that is either a lottery choice or unprotected at some point.”
Coach’s notebook from HoopsWorld looks at point guards.
I liked this story from Darnell Mayberry on life on the inactive list: “The Thunder hasn’t had any issues, which speaks to how strong the team’s chemistry and camaraderie currently is. Brooks even marveled following Thursday’s practice at how more than half the team lingered on the court to help and support Serge Ibaka practice dunks for next weekend’s slam dunk contest at All-Star Weekend. “This is not common,” Brooks repeated while shaking his head and looking on from a distance.”
RealGM on the Thunder’s deadline needs: “Clearly, Scott Brooks doesn’t have a reliable low post scorer. Green is his most frequent option and his capacity is very average to be generous. Green is a talented player who does a lot of things well, but doesn’t have a special skill (at least not with the Thunder). While he is indispensable and under-appreciated, there is little doubt the Thunder can turn him into a different player that can elevate the sum of Oklahoma City’s parts.”
Via NewsOK, Thunder players worked on their All-Star stuff after practice: “Durant had 16 points in his first go-round after a slow start. Daequan Cook, the league’s 2009 3-point contest winner, was off the mark and got booed by teammates. All-Star point guard Russell Westbrook, who went 4 for 4 on 3-pointers at Utah last Saturday night, had 23 points before running out of time with two balls still left in the final rack and received a standing ovation. Westbrook is an All-Star reserve and potentially could participate in the Skills Challenge. Teammates then helped forward Serge Ibaka prepare for the dunk contest, the details of which Thunder players have asked to remain privileged. “Thunder U is in full force today,” Brooks said, shaking his head as a dozen players continued with their post-practice recess.”
I don't think we should hold onto the draft picks as we already can't develop Mullens, Cole, or to some account Green and Harden. In fact I think it would be very smart to package Cole, the picks, Mo Pete's contract, Green and/or Harden and/or Ibaka for a big time post player. This would get us the 3rd piece of the core besides Durant and Westbrook, depending on the package would only take one or two players out of the rotation that we have but would be replacing them with a big time proven talent. Which I stand by my point that veterans, or free agent role players would sign with this team to fill a bench role without crippling the finances of this team. There is a reason Collison signed a cap friendly contract, there are other people around the league that would love to play on this team. Will this happen, not necessarily, at which point I'd still rather see the draft picks and Cole or Mullens plus the expiring contracts used to bring in a piece that would help improve the rotation without actually sacrificing any of it. You never know what would happen if say Dalembert came in for the rest of the semester and really liked the culture of the team... people honestly have taken less money to play for good organizations, it's really not unheard of.
@sbliss
I'm not high on Landry. Just because a PF looks good against us doesn't mean he's actually that good. Landry is a poor rebounder and mediocre defender. He's better than Green at the PF spot, but would still likely play off the bench of Ibaka continues to improve. I think Harden is worth more - not to mention picking up Landry seems pointless unless we send out one of Green or Ibaka in the first place.
As for max revenue, I just don't see it. Merch sales can certainly go up. Local TV revenue still has a great deal of growth to make as a championship level team is a much much bigger draw. Sponshorship has a great deal it can take off (we don't even have a name for the building right now). Even home ticket revenue will increase, because a team that is constantly in the championship picture WILL increase prices and still sell out the stadium.
Now, I agree with you that sticking with a "we'll build everything from within" approach is about to hit the biggest and most important hurdle of our team's existence. Drafting a player to fit what we need is extremely low percentage at best. Even the kind of development we would legitimately need from Harden/Ibaka is less likely to occur than it is likely. If we stay the course, it might work, but there's a lot less risk in making a smart trade.
prye05 :@sbliss
In response to your “how do we get there title” I have already outlined in previous comments on this post how the Thunder have lots of resources available to them that won’t set them back financially. Plus trust me when I say winning brings fans, national exposure, and with that more revenue… just ask the Cavs about having the most nationally televised games of any team not named the Lakers, and they sure aren’t a huge market. People keep quoting this small market stuff… small market doesn’t doom teams to non-title contention, nor does it mean that the team needs some way outside the box strategy. This team has all the assets it needs to make a trade that will bring in a difference maker without mortgaging the future financially like some teams do. Plus an owner will spend more money for a contender than for some team with potential. So i disagree that we need creativity, when simply sticking to the plan and using the parts we have now is enough to bring us a true contender without making the owner “lose tons of money”.
The arena is already sold out most nights. We have already been adopted by the national media. Chesapeake and Devon are currently sitting on top of the world. I'm not sure we aren't already at max revenue.
I'll admit that sticking to the plan might work, but we started rolling off good draft position last year. IMO, other than the Pleiss long shot, our draft last year was not very good. Building by the plan from this point on gets a lot more difficult.
Plenty of people have told me I am wrong about Harden. You are not the first. I don't care. Essentially, I don't like what I see in Harden, lottery pick or not.
I don't like the hesitancy with which he plays. It tells me doesn't believe in himself. He's an average 3 point shooter. This team needs a second great 3 point shooter, someone you can go to in the clutch. Do we really want to go on and on watching KD take an impossible shot at the end of games? I think Harden is an average to poor defender. I've never seen him shut down anyone he is guarding. Almost without exception, they get clean looks.
As far as Landry goes, I thought Landry looked strong in the games I have seen him play. I read and article where Scott Brooks said he was a player that always gave them trouble. Those are good players to acquire.
Obviously, you need a guard to replace Harden, but I assume they are going to want someone of value to give up Landry. Harden would probably fit well with their team. I doubt they are going to trade Landry for one of our guys on the bench,so IMO Harden is our most expendable chip that would have enough value to them. Maybe it's DJ White and Harden for Landry and a first round pick
@sbliss
None of this explains why you want to trade a 21 year old 2nd year lottery pick for Carl Landry.
@sbliss
In response to your "how do we get there title" I have already outlined in previous comments on this post how the Thunder have lots of resources available to them that won't set them back financially. Plus trust me when I say winning brings fans, national exposure, and with that more revenue... just ask the Cavs about having the most nationally televised games of any team not named the Lakers, and they sure aren't a huge market. People keep quoting this small market stuff... small market doesn't doom teams to non-title contention, nor does it mean that the team needs some way outside the box strategy. This team has all the assets it needs to make a trade that will bring in a difference maker without mortgaging the future financially like some teams do. Plus an owner will spend more money for a contender than for some team with potential. So i disagree that we need creativity, when simply sticking to the plan and using the parts we have now is enough to bring us a true contender without making the owner "lose tons of money".
prye05 :@sbliss
Why do you want to think outside the box? Do you really anticipate the Thunder blowing up their system that is already working to try out one of your non-prototypical ideas? How can’t the Thunder sustain what they have?
The Thunder are honestly in one of the best situations in all of the NBA, AND they can get better, which should scare every other franchise out there. Just as a reference the package the Nets were offering the Nuggets for Melo was something like Favors, multiple first rounds picks, and some contracts. The Thunder could offer a package similar to that without even tapping into the real core of this team, and would have the financial flexibility to be able to afford the 3 stars, and support a bench or would convince veterans to sign to win a ring. So I’m confused on why you would want some unusual line-up when the Thunder can continue what they’re doing and do it a whole lot better. So could you please explain it to me?
IMO, if you own an NBA franchise, you have an obligation to make every effort to win a title. What we have now is great, but we are not good enough to win a title. So, how do you get there?
This franchise is part toy and part community pride for the ownership. At least one of the owners is involved in almost daily transactions that equal the net worth of the franchise. Maybe they dig into the piggy bank and pay for a star laden team. That's a possibility, but no player is going to take substantially less than their market value to play for a ring. What happens if ownership is not willing to absorb financial loss to win and let's be honest, it most certainly will involve financial loss. IMO, you are left with no other path than the path of creativity. You find a way to beat the game and do what no one else has done.
This is not a naive fan base. They are used to championships, granted on a different level, but still, the fans understand and will demand at least a real opportunity to win a title. The Thunder story is truly exciting, but this is still a small market. Two to 3 years from now, what we have at this point won't be good enough, not for the fans and not for the players.
Planning starts now and it seems to me that part of the "fan" experience is talking about it.
After seeing this game, I want J.J. Hickson..
... and after seeing this game, there's no way we'll ever get him.
@sbliss
Not to be rude, but your logic is well... really terrible and non-basketball-sensical.
But on another note, the Cavaliers' broadcast team are just hopeless homers. They complain more about no-calls than actual coaches and players combined. They may be in competition with us for worst announcers in the league.
@sbliss
Why do you want to think outside the box? Do you really anticipate the Thunder blowing up their system that is already working to try out one of your non-prototypical ideas? How can't the Thunder sustain what they have?
The Thunder are honestly in one of the best situations in all of the NBA, AND they can get better, which should scare every other franchise out there. Just as a reference the package the Nets were offering the Nuggets for Melo was something like Favors, multiple first rounds picks, and some contracts. The Thunder could offer a package similar to that without even tapping into the real core of this team, and would have the financial flexibility to be able to afford the 3 stars, and support a bench or would convince veterans to sign to win a ring. So I'm confused on why you would want some unusual line-up when the Thunder can continue what they're doing and do it a whole lot better. So could you please explain it to me?
Before you go all totally dismissive, I'm not trying to build the prototypical team. I'm trying to build something OKC can build and sustain.
Remember, I was trying to add Devin Harris. You have side by side points with a 6'9" Green on one wing and a 6' 9" Kevin Durant on the other. Add Nene in the middle and you would have a very weird and difficult team to deal with.
In the alternative, the other suggestion was Ibaka and Landry on the floor for inside play (while you wait for a Pleiss to develop) at the same time with Westbrook, Durant and Daniel Gibson for scoring punch.
The point is to throw out something unusual enough to generate completely non-normal discussions.
And LOL at the prospect of having Landry, Green, Ibaka, Collison, Durant on the same team.
@sbliss
You're ridiculous if you think Landry or Green are better than Harden. Trading Harden for Carl Landry is just stupid.
justin :
I still like a Jeff Green for Carl Landry trade, straight up. Landry isn’t much better than Green, but he’d cost less to re-sign, and I’d be personally spared the agonizing wait through Green’s RFA period.
Actually this is close to what I was trying to say earlier. Although, I would try to make the deal for Landry fly for Harden and DJ White. You keep Green to sub in at the 3 and 4. Hardens are a dime a dozen, Landrys and a second unit Jeff Greens are not.
I would include Ibaka in a trade if it brought back a star quality player without also taking back a bad contract. I don't think the team would trade Ibaka though.
gr8ball83 :@Keith
yeah I do think we’re actually kind of too deep of a team if that makes sense. We have too many players that are either not significantly better/worse than each other or aren’t played the appropriate minutes for the talent discrepancy. Seems like talent consolidation would be a good thing in our situation, Cole , Millsap, and Lat. Williams could be called up to sit on the bench.
I agree that it doesn't make sense to have multiple people that the Thunder can't develop right now plus a plethora of draft picks who represent more people who would need to develop. Thus, why I think it would be smart to not just look at a simple "Green + something", but something that could be bigger that would include Cole (who wouldn't be necessary if we get a "center of the future", Green (RFA, not a real PF, etc etc), picks(as stated we don't really have time to develop them so they're more valuable to a team starting over), and contracts(money is a big issue with the new CBA and having flexibility could help some teams), and maybe even more like Ibaka or Harden (it's not like the Thunder can't afford to replace them. They are most valuable for their POTENTIAL where the Thunder would be trading for ACTUAL value). ***NOTE this isn't saying that I want to trade Ibaka just that if doing so brought back a bona fide star I would think about it.****
@girlballer
We don't NEED option D, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. Just like we don't NEED to sign Green to an extension, but that doesn't mean that shouldn't happen, especially if it is at a good price. It's all about value in doing things... like stated above BAD trades are not the point, or making a move to make a move, it's about making GOOD trades that would make the Thunder contenders, and not destroy them financially or ruin flexibility to make other moves in the future.
justin :
Jeff Green + James Harden + Nenad Krstic + Clippers 1st for Andrew Bogut + Drew Gooden + Carlos Delfino
Problems solved. Except, I guess, we’d have Drew Gooden on the team forever.
I'd do it, I want Bogut on the team so bad, both because he's good and because I would kill for a squad 6 in the OKC Arena.
justin :Jeff Green + James Harden + Nenad Krstic + Clippers 1st for Andrew Bogut + Drew Gooden + Carlos Delfino
Problems solved. Except, I guess, we’d have Drew Gooden on the team forever.
Drew Gooden is not on any team forever. That guy just rents apartments in the city he plays in because he knows he's not going to be there long. :)
@prye05: I vote for B but I hope for C. I agree w the other poster who said we don't NEED D!
Reilly needs to get real... It was amusing an all, but if he and his 10 million over 5 years contract w ESPN doesn't provide a trust fund for his kid, then maybe HE ought to re-evaluate his Nordstroms habit!! I bet he spends TWICE what Durant does!
http://awfulannouncing.blogspot.com/2007/10/rick-reillys-contract-with-espn-its-umm.html
@Keith
yeah I do think we're actually kind of too deep of a team if that makes sense. We have too many players that are either not significantly better/worse than each other or aren't played the appropriate minutes for the talent discrepancy. Seems like talent consolidation would be a good thing in our situation, Cole , Millsap, and Lat. Williams could be called up to sit on the bench.
@justin
Harden and Green are both younger than Afflalo, and almost a decade younger than Nene. For a rebuilding team, further, Harden+Green is cheaper than Afflalo (RFA) and Nene (wants out, may leave anyway) would be for at least the next two years.
Denver, further, would have Favors to replace what Nene brings, and Harden to fill much more of the playmaker role that -Melo/Billups +Harris would necessitate.
@prye05
As always, it depends on the caliber player coming back in the trade, but he's not untouchable to me by any means. Right now, Ibaka is not a star, and really nowhere near one. He has the tools to develop into something special, but I would take something close to what we can expect out of him down the line now over the risk of him never fixing his stone hands and generally low bball IQ.
Would Harden and Green fit needs better than Afflalo and Nene? Usually teams put a premium on their own players, especially young ones...
@gr8ball83
Oh, I don't. I mentioned before that option D would be ideal but I can't see any other team going for it given the new CBA uncertainty. That said, I think a package of Green, Harden, and the Clippers pick is quite a haul for any team.
@justin
Yeah, obviously nothing happens until Melo is moved. I just think the deal isn't that one sided for either team, and that it at least works in a vacuum (and it's not like we couldn't add more smaller value assets). Denver seems to be generally screwing the pooch with this Melo thing (they are never going to get a better deal than what the Nets offered). But hey, if they proposed Nets deal does eventually go through, Harden and Green would still fit needs for the Nuggets.
KD was on the Dan Patrick show this morning for about 15 seconds before they brought on Ray Allen
@justin
@Keith
Just curious but would you be willing to trade Ibaka for a more proven "star"?
Personally, I don't think management would trade him just curious on your opinion. If it meant bringing in a BIG star I personally would be fine since while Ibaka's potential is great there is also a chance he'd never reach the level of what some stars are already at.
If we get Nene from Denver I think we'd be forced into taking Al Harrington back. And those trades are only viable in the first place if Carmelo is traded, and would be affected by what return Denver gets.
@Keith
I'm just curious who is going to trade us an all-star and what you think they would take back in exchange
@Keith
Me too, but I don't think it's realistic. :(
@justin
I still like my trade from yesterday better.
@qrex
He can't sign an extension before the offseason, no, but he will be a restricted free agent no matter who has him. RFA rights are incredibly strict, and he would have no leverage to actually leave any team that trades for him if they indeed want to keep him.
Jeff Green + James Harden + Nenad Krstic + Clippers 1st for Andrew Bogut + Drew Gooden + Carlos Delfino
Problems solved. Except, I guess, we'd have Drew Gooden on the team forever.
@justin
you're in quite the mood today :)
@brentn31475
Hey, if that's your stance, let me be the first to get in line behind you. I'm against bad trades as well. Notice I qualified my original statement by saying the player had to be a serious star, which means excluding overrated, overpaid nobodies or underachieving talents who may never amount to anything. But that's the point. If we could land a true star, then it's not a bad trade.
Can the Thunder or any other team sign Jeff Green to a new contract? So, a team trading for him would only have a commitment through the end of this season. Correct?
@brentn31475
Firstly, we can afford three major players, lots of teams have done it. The Spurs are the ideal example, but three stars is very doable. Also, having a strong bench is highly overrated. The Lakers haven't had an even average bench in years, but they won two straight championships. The Heat barely have a bench, yet they are primed to be one of the last teams standing. Point made.
Also, you seem to seriously overlook just how important individual talent is in the NBA. Three players can legitimately be worth an entire salary cap because they can carry a bad bench or middling players in between.
What salary are we going to screw up? At the moment, we are primed to be almost 20 million under the cap this offseason (excluding a Green extension, but including KD's huge raise). We don't pursue players in FA to begin with, so that shouldn't factor. And who won't we be able to re-sign? The only players worth talking about are on rookie contracts and thus will be RFAs at worst (which can then be traded for cheaper talent or matched no matter what) or already signed to very cost-effective contracts (Collison, Thabo).
For everyone that doesn't think we can afford to pay another star, how are you planning on paying Green, Westbrook, Ibaka, Mullens, Maynor, Cole, and all the draft picks we're going to get if we hold onto all these options?
In addition to the money that we're gaining from Mo Pete and Kristic becoming FA's this year, Collison's contract is dropping by 10 mil from this year to next year opening up room right there to extend that money to Westbrook while keeping our currently (below the cap line) the same. So moving forward would you rather pay Green, Ibaka, Cole, Maynor, draft picks or pay someone like Dwight Howard (just throwing out an ideal person not saying this would actually happen) and have vets and role players on good salaries like Thabo and Collison???
I still like a Jeff Green for Carl Landry trade, straight up. Landry isn't much better than Green, but he'd cost less to re-sign, and I'd be personally spared the agonizing wait through Green's RFA period.
I don't think there will be much available that helps out the Thunder. Contrary to what Chad Ford says, I'm doubtful that Jeff Green would net anything significant in a trade. The best I'd hope for in a Green trade would be someone like Landry, or a bigger trade for Landry / Dalembert with other pieces involved. The only big time player who might be available that I'd be interested in is Nene, and I don't believe the Thunder have the pieces to get him at a reasonable cost. Players like Biedrins, etc. don't do much for me.
I say wait for the offseason unless there's an opportunity to get a long term front court guy. I just don't see any long term front court players being available. Last offseason was the time to do that.
@Keith
I'm not anti-trade, I'm anti bad trade!
@Keith
Trading is only for rich teams like the Lakers and the Heat. I think we should definitely keep this 15 player core together and win some championships the right way.
@Keith
Major player to me means signing a star? Isn't that a major player? I won't dissagree that Green shouldn't be a starting PF, and we should bring one in, but I don't think we need a MAJOR player. A big man is needed yes, but if we bring in a Major player like plan D. suggests, it will screw up our salary, and we won't be able to re-sign players we should, or go after FA.
We will have 2 players with Max contracts after Westrbook hopefully gets an extension, we can't afford 3 stars plus have a solid bench.
@justin
Don't forget all of our players are guaranteed to develop into all-stars.
@gr8ball83
I think he, and several others of us, are just tired of fans being so anti-trade when it is painfully obvious we aren't contenders.
@justin
who was arguing that?
We don't have money! No room! Small market! Save all the money for Westbrook and Ibaka and Harden and Aldrich and Mullens!
brentn31475 :@prye05
We don’t need D. We’re the Thunder, not the Heat, Celtics, or Lakers. We don’t have room to have 3 Major players.
I could see them trying to bring in a big at the end of the season, but they aren’t going to make any big moves this season unless it’s a gift. This isn’t about this year, it’s about the next several years, some people forget that.
You're right we aren't the Heat... but there is a big difference between signing 3 FA's and making a trade for a 3rd star. The Thunder have lots of payroll flexibility, lots of picks that they really don't need, players that will raise the salary of the team anyway (Green, Ibaka, Harden, potentially Maynor, Aldridge, Mullens, etc). So if you're the Thunder you can afford to make a trade that includes Green, Cole, multiple picks, and expiring contracts, in fact you could even throw in Harden or Ibaka (Yes i know this would make some people unhappy but let's be realistic if you brought in a 3rd all-star are you really going to be unhappy?) and still not have effected the flexibility to build this team in the future and made them instant title contenders.
@brentn31475
Why does any deal for a major player mean it's all about now? Even if Green doesn't leave in the offseason (which seems likely), he's not a starting caliber PF. Even if Harden might have a ton of potential, KD and Russ will always dominate the ball and marginalize his skills. We don't have any guaranteed starters in the frontcourt now OR the future. If we can get a big man now, it IS for the future.
@Daniel Plainview
But trading for another big that Brooks won't play does help our playoff chances?
@brentn31475
Not all about this year, but teh pieces are simple, why not make one upgrade? Besides, Cole, whether it be his lack of readiness or Brooks unfortunate unwillingness to give him time, is not contributing at all. If he was in there, scrapping and improving our team, even for 15-18 minutes a game, Id be more patient to pull the trigger, but he's not. I like Cole and I think hes a god fit, but at this pace, he might not even avg 5 min a game for the remainder of teh year. Its foolish and does not help our playoff chances