ESPN logoTrueHoop Network
An ESPN Affiliate
Daily Thunder.com
  • Home
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Contact
  • Team
    • Salaries
    • Roster
    • Schedule & Events
  • Commenting Guidelines

Does Perk make the Thunder mean enough to win a title?

by Michael Kimball on March 18, 2011 at 12:55 pm 66 Comments

Issac Baldizon/NBAE/Getty Images

A friend sent me a YouTube clip of Michael Jordan the other day — from a game I saw live as a youngster, mind you, but still — that reminded me of how mean he was. He was a bully, even to his own teammates. I grew up idolizing Jordan, begging my parents (unsuccessfully) for his shoes and hanging his posters on my wall. But because most of the bullying was only detailed in lengthy books while he was actually still playing and I was mostly reading Calvin and Hobbes anthologies at that point, I didn’t really know much about it at the time. I don’t know if my opinion of him would have changed if I knew.

But I do know he and the Bulls won six championships. And it would have been eight if it weren’t for his baseball experiment.

That got me to thinking about recent NBA championship teams. We know that, with only the 2003-04 Detroit Pistons as an exception, it takes at least one transcendent player. But does it also take some meanness? Maybe even a little meanness off the court as well? A look back at most of the recent champs suggests that’s the case. Not only did most of them have a mean player or two, in many cases the meanest was the best or one of the best guys on the team.

Stretching back all the way to the 1980s, even the showtime Lakers had a mean guy or two. It’s may seem hard to believe now, but that guy was probably Magic Johnson. Blasphemy, you say? Let’s not forget that Johnson at the very least helped force out a coach with whom he won a title. Tell me that’s not cold, calculating and mean. Larry Bird, the centerpiece of the Boston Celtics’ championship teams, was known for his withering trash talk. I don’t think we even need to waste much time discussing the Bad Boys Pistons teams. (One of my earliest childhood sports memories is watching many of the Pistons walk off the court before the game was over as the Bulls eliminated them in the 1991 Eastern Conference Finals. That’s mean. Be men and face your conquerors.)

Moving on to the ’90s, we’ve already talked about the Bulls. The Houston Rockets, who took advantage of MJ’s absence to win two titles, could be an exception. Their rosters from the 1993-94 and 1994-95 seasons don’t feature too many mean players. It was a few years yet before Robert Horry started doing mean things, and while Hakeem Olajuwon was so good in the post it seemed downright mean, that doesn’t really count. We could throw in O.J. Simpson because The Chase interrupted Game 5 of the first title year, but that probably doesn’t count either. Perhaps it’s notable that the least mean team so far could only win when MJ, the meanest of all, took his sabbatical.

As for the Thunder, I won't lie. I kind of like that the players aren't mean. It makes them likable. Their likability also has other fringe benefits, like helping Mrs. Patrick James to become obsessed with them and make it easier for me to schedule half our lives around Thunder games, home and away. But at the same time, it seems like it might be helpful for them to have at least a little bit of a rough edge on the court.

The Spurs didn’t have many meanies when they took the lockout-shortened 1999 season title, but later made up for it with noted cheap shot artist Bruce Bowen and Horry on later title teams. All of the Lakers title teams since 2000 had Kobe Bryant, who has shown MJ-like qualities when it comes to bullying his own teammates. (Has the video of him dissing Andrew Bynum been wiped off the Internet? I couldn’t find anything but a tiny clip and spoof videos.) Horry was also there for a couple of title runs. Phil Jackson is also definitely a meanie when he wants to be — although that wasn’t as apparent when he was with the Bulls. Larry Brown can probably count for the mean guy on the ’04 Pistons team, or Rasheed Wallace. And for the 2007-08 Celtics, how about Kevin Garnett?

As for the Thunder, I won’t lie. I kind of like that the players aren’t mean. It makes them likable. Their likability also has other fringe benefits, like helping Mrs. Patrick James to become obsessed with them and make it easier for me to schedule half our lives around Thunder games, home and away. But at the same time, it seems like it might be helpful for them to have at least a little bit of a rough edge on the court.

Russell Westbrook’s presence helps some. He’s definitely got attitude. Pound-for-pound, he’d probably be the guy I’d least want to be involved in a fight with — at least until Kendrick Perkins got here, or before that if there was a chair within reach of Nenad Krstic. But even with Westbrook, his edge doesn’t have a lot of meanness to it. He’ll dunk on you like you were a third-grade girl and then beat his chest with a banshee scream and inspire his teammates to the greatest 8-0 run (to date) in Oklahoma City’s NBA history. But he’s not necessarily the type to send a message with a borderline-flagrant foul or in-your-face, don’t-mess-with-us trash talk. And I wouldn’t change a thing about Kevin Durant, the nicest, smoothest superstar in the NBA. Besides, plenty of what he does on the court is cold blooded enough without him having to be mean. His sick cross-then-stepback jumper over LeBron James late in the Heat game comes to mind.

Enter Perk. Supposedly Perk’s a nice guy off the court. But he seems to hate the competition. And I welcome that. He told reporters that he hated “everything” about Pau Gasol in an early media appearance with OKC, but you wondered if the team’s PR folks would get hold of him and tell him that’s not how the Thunder does it. It was certainly way out of the team’s character. But I almost hope that the team’s PR folks did talk to him about it … because  it would make his next public comments about Gasol, when he told ESPN The Magazine that Gasol is soft and called Phil Jackson arrogant for good measure, even more awesome. “Yeah, they told me to tone it down. But I hate Pau and Phil and the rest of the Lakers, and I just don’t give an eff.” That’s what I wanted to see from at least one Thunder player, and in the public realm too. I want an edge. I want a little meanness.

We’ve already seen what the new-look Thunder front line can do against a good NBA team even without extra-hard fouls, extra trash talking or ill will. The start of Brian Windhorst’s Daily Dime column on the Oklahoma City-Miami game said it all for me. The size and length of OKC is just … tantalizing. It seems playoff ready. Still, I think if the Thunder is going to make a deep run in these playoffs and in future seasons, there needs to be some nastiness on OKC’s side of the ball. And Perk is just the guy to bring it.

Could that deep run, or even a championship, come this season? I, for one, am not ready to say no. With Perkins, Oklahoma City may just be mean enough to get there.

Categories
Commentary
Previous Post Friday Bolts – 3.18.11
Next Post Bobcats vs. Thunder: Pregame Primer
65 comments
  Livefyre
  • Get Livefyre
  • FAQ
Sign in
+ Follow
Post comment
 
Link
Newest | Oldest
TempBoy Brandon
TempBoy Brandon 5pts

@Ozarkhick
I'm definitely giving a big woop woop to DJ, and I'll probably give a mild clap for Najera. But as much as I root for Shaun Livingston after what he went through and how he has fought back so hard, I never felt that bonded to him, so I probably won't clap for him. Glad he's doing well though, and it's pretty cool that we were the first team to give him a chance again.

DC
DC 5pts

As I have said early with comments from Perkins... the OKC front line (Perkins, Ibaka, Collison and Mohammed) The 4 Horsemen of the NBA!

Bring it on!

Crow
Crow 5pts

(Technically the Spurs are in 8th on defensive efficiency by 0.1 points but I let that slide.)

Crow
Crow 5pts

I had a theory about 5 years ago, based on review of 17 years of data that to the top 3 title contenders would be top 7 on defensive efficiency and then either one of the top 2 offensive teams within that group or the next best team on point differential. About 65% of title winners came from that group. I checked it again today and 4 of the last 5 title winners came from that top 3 too.

This year it is pretty tight among 6 teams for those 3 spots- Bulls, Celtics, Magic, Heat, Lakers and Spurs with the last 3 finishing as the top 3 over the others. I think the chances are still good that the winner comes from the last 3 but really good that it comes for that top 6.

If the Thunder's defense post trade stays top 7 then I'd give them more of a chance to get to the conference finals or go further than I would have previously.

Match-ups matter. Several teams who had the best overall ranking by this system got beat by one of the other top 3 teams or someone even before them. The only statistical "darkhorse" (outside the top 3) in the last 5 playoffs was the Heat with Shaq and Wade.

Ozarkhick
Ozarkhick 5pts

james1 :
One thing that I thought was interesting, I can’t remember which article it was from but Perkins said he wasn’t back to full speed yet and he probably wouldn’t be back until next year but that he was “at a good place.” Which I took to mean, he was healthy enough to get up and down the court. We haven’t seen a fullspeed Perkins yet. He’s got that knee brace he wears too that has to bother him at least a little. I don’t know that he’s got all of his hops back yet though. He still play great positional defense but I bet next year he’ll be a more athletic version.

That was reported on real gm wiretap sourced from the Oklahoman. The message got a bit garbled, he said most of that is not physical but due to not feeling out his place in the system entirely as of yet.

There are so many guys we need to give ovations to tonight, It's gonna be hard to tell them apart, so maybe if we golf clap all the Charlotte players and then whoop real loud for DJ that will work.

dream catcher
dream catcher 5pts

james1 :
One thing that I thought was interesting, I can’t remember which article it was from but Perkins said he wasn’t back to full speed yet and he probably wouldn’t be back until next year but that he was “at a good place.” Which I took to mean, he was healthy enough to get up and down the court. We haven’t seen a fullspeed Perkins yet. He’s got that knee brace he wears too that has to bother him at least a little. I don’t know that he’s got all of his hops back yet though. He still play great positional defense but I bet next year he’ll be a more athletic version.

yep, it usually takes at least 1 year to fully heal from an acl tear. sometimes it takes 2 years.

dream catcher
dream catcher 5pts

Daniel Plainview :
Durants poise in the game against the Heat, in Miami, especially right after the Heat destroyed the Spurs, I do not think it was an accident. I think its a comfort level hes finally arrived at. His passing was crisp and well executed – oddly polished for KD. If that Kevin is here to stay, no amount of success in the post-season will surprise me.

I agree, I hope we see more of that KD.

j-mo
j-mo 5pts

cdub00 :

You still didn’t answer the question. If we make to the WCF, I say we have a 10% chance to win that and the FINALS.

It's hard to say. We don't have a clue who we'd be playing against or what the matchups would be. If you're not going to go with pure percentage chance per team left, then you have to look at the matchups. It's also nearly impossible to speculate because we've seen the Perk-Effect on 2 games. Against the Wizards, it was to be expected. Against the Heat, it makes us giddy with excitement but we can't get too excited after only 2 games.

Also, if we get to the WCF, we'll have won 8 playoff games by that point. It's hard to judge chance to win WCF without being able to have those 8 games (plus the losses) to use in judging our chances.

Still, to (finally) answer you're question, I'll say that if we make it as far as the WCF, I'll say we have a 45-50% chance of winning that game. I don't see any WC playoff team that we don't match up well with on paper. We matched up really well against Miami and that turned out well. If we get to the Finals, it all depends on who is coming in from the East. I think we have less of a chance to beat Boston than we do Miami or Chicago. My order of teams in the EC that would be best to face and that are most likely to get there: 1) Miami 2) Chicago, 3) Boston.

james1
james1 5pts

One thing that I thought was interesting, I can't remember which article it was from but Perkins said he wasn't back to full speed yet and he probably wouldn't be back until next year but that he was "at a good place." Which I took to mean, he was healthy enough to get up and down the court. We haven't seen a fullspeed Perkins yet. He's got that knee brace he wears too that has to bother him at least a little. I don't know that he's got all of his hops back yet though. He still play great positional defense but I bet next year he'll be a more athletic version.

TempBoy Brandon
TempBoy Brandon 5pts

Lefty :I hope DJ gets a nice ovation tonight.

I was literally just about to post the same thing. He never really saw any minutes, but I still think the Thunder crowd will give him a nice ovation. I know I'll be clapping and yelling when he subs in the first time. I always liked the guy.

Ozarkhick
Ozarkhick 5pts

How do you say "chucker" in Turkish and Chinese? I'd like to tweet that at Melo to help him out in a few years here.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@cdub00
i did not know that

j-mo
j-mo 5pts

Forgot the link http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=6232708

j-mo
j-mo 5pts

This cracks me up:

"Besiktas was 14-7 and in fifth place in Turkey's 16-team first division as of Friday, with nine regular-season games left. Moore said he has kept Besiktas' coaching staff apprised of Iverson's condition. Besiktas is 7-1 since Iverson's injury.

He's ready to go back," Moore said. "He just needs the word from Dr. Andrews."

Maybe Besiktas doesn't want Iverson back. They were 7-6 when he left, then went 7-1 without him? Hmmmmmmmm....

cdub00
cdub00 5pts

j-mo :Of course I mean statistically speaking we will have a 25% chance of winning it all if we make it to the WCF. As for actualy matchups dicatting % chances, when you have the 4 teams that make it to the respective conf. finals, the differences go way down unless there is a truly dominant team. Other than the Spurs, who have kept a good pace, but no where near the dominance they showed early in the season, there isn’t a dominant team in either conference. There are 4 or 5 really good teams at the top (fewer in the East) and then it goes downhill from there.
If the Thunder happen to make it to the Finals I really like our chances because that means we likely would have had to beat 2 of the following: Mavs, Spurs, and Lakers. if we can beat 2 of those 3 teams during the playoffs, people would have to recognize that we have a good shot at the title.

You still didn't answer the question. If we make to the WCF, I say we have a 10% chance to win that and the FINALS.

anonymous
anonymous 5pts

I wish the thunder had one more game against SA. I really want to see how this team matches up against

cdub00
cdub00 5pts

**DIRTY

j-mo
j-mo 5pts

Of course I mean statistically speaking we will have a 25% chance of winning it all if we make it to the WCF. As for actualy matchups dicatting % chances, when you have the 4 teams that make it to the respective conf. finals, the differences go way down unless there is a truly dominant team. Other than the Spurs, who have kept a good pace, but no where near the dominance they showed early in the season, there isn't a dominant team in either conference. There are 4 or 5 really good teams at the top (fewer in the East) and then it goes downhill from there.

If the Thunder happen to make it to the Finals I really like our chances because that means we likely would have had to beat 2 of the following: Mavs, Spurs, and Lakers. if we can beat 2 of those 3 teams during the playoffs, people would have to recognize that we have a good shot at the title.

cdub00
cdub00 5pts

f5alcon :@j-mowe havnt quite locked up homecourt denver isnt too far behind.@cdub00calling
nick a dirty ole man doesnt sound to complimentary.

Ole Diry is one of Nick's nicknames. No pun intended. Thought you knew. : )

Lefty
Lefty 5pts

I hope DJ gets a nice ovation tonight.

cdub00
cdub00 5pts

j-mo :

cdub00 :For real though, Perk + Ibaka (developing) + “Ole Dirty” Nick = Mean Enough to win a TITLE!! (Prob not this year though). If I had to put odds on our chances, I would say 35% to make WCF this year and 10% to win it all. What do ya think?

If the way our front court is playing now is any indication of how we will play in the playoffs, I’d say we have more than a 35% chance of WCF. If we get to the WCF it’s at least a 25% chance right? Only 4 teams left at that point.

Dude, statistically speaking, you are right. But that is like saying that Toronto has the same chance of winning the title next year as Boston (1/30) right? That makes no sense at all. We all know that there are many other factors besides number of teams that effect chance of winning. Or atleast I would hope that we all know that. Duh.

KingGondo
KingGondo 5pts

The bottom line is that your interior cannot be soft. Ibaka and Perkins are one of the nastiest backcourts in the league already, and it's honestly hard to think of another that compares. Westbrook plays with tons of fire, and KD isn't afraid to show emotion when it's called for. It's a pretty good mix of personalities now.

To me, the scariest part of this is that Ibaka is still just 21, and he's going to "grow up" learning defense from and playing next to one of the best interior defenders in the NBA. He's already averaging over 2 BPG, I think that he'll average over 3 BPG next season (whenever that season happens). I love the "no layups" rule. :D

Daniel Plainview
Daniel Plainview 5pts

Durants poise in the game against the Heat, in Miami, especially right after the Heat destroyed the Spurs, I do not think it was an accident. I think its a comfort level hes finally arrived at. His passing was crisp and well executed - oddly polished for KD. If that Kevin is here to stay, no amount of success in the post-season will surprise me.

There was one pick I saw Perk had on James and it was sooooo beautiful, comeplete and legal. James is a horse and he stopped dead in his tracks. It gave KD like 8 feet of space by the time the ball left his hand

TempBoy Brandon
TempBoy Brandon 5pts

@PNT
Ha! That's actually kinda cool that he just wanted to talk about games. These guys really are a bunch of kids.

@f5alcon
Yeah, I just think that a Thunder/Lakers conference finals would be epic, so that's what I'm holding out hope for. :)

okc baby
okc baby 5pts

walker :
I’m a true Thunder and Sooner fan.I think we can win evry game.If KD goes on a run in the playoffs anything can happen.

Like he did last year

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@Daniel Plainview
if we have a game 7 at home imagine how loud the thunderdome(okc arena) will be

walker
walker 5pts

I'm a true Thunder and Sooner fan.I think we can win evry game.If KD goes on a run in the playoffs anything can happen.

Daniel Plainview
Daniel Plainview 5pts

When, if, we lose in the paloffs, it will be in game 7

okc baby
okc baby 5pts

I dont know about winning championships:) But we definitely have a better chance of winning the 1st round.

Ozarkhick
Ozarkhick 5pts

@andrew

Nah, I may get a little close to the line with some of my comments, but okcbaby says things that would get your FCC license yanked. Can't be Traber. Besides, Traber knows that baseball is very strenuous when attacking a Japanese pitcher like a homicidal lunatic.

ThunderHorn
ThunderHorn 5pts

What I wouldn't give to see those Houston team, specifically the first one, go up against MJ/Scottie and the Bulls. Mad Max was one of the only guys that gave MJ problems.

walker
walker 5pts

I don't think we're to young to win it all.Our team is good enough.To just accept that ther's no chance,I don't think we will but I don't think it's impossible by a long shot.

Ozarkhick
Ozarkhick 5pts

@Ozarkhick

That should have been <1%, of course.

Ozarkhick
Ozarkhick 5pts

Prior to the recent run, I had >1% belief in our chances at winning a championship, hell, less than Hollinger's.

Small sample size here, but with the way we are playing lately, I'm beginning to believe - not that it's a probability, but a distinct possibility. Just gotta stay tuned and see how this keeps developing.

Thank goodness I don't have to be a fan of a crappy team.

I wonder what things would look like in OKC if we were still winning in the 20's every year.

andrew
andrew 5pts

It's official. okc baby is Jim Traber.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@j-mo
we havnt quite locked up homecourt denver isnt too far behind.

@cdub00
calling nick a dirty ole man doesnt sound to complimentary.

j-mo
j-mo 5pts

cdub00 :For real though, Perk + Ibaka (developing) + “Ole Dirty” Nick = Mean Enough to win a TITLE!! (Prob not this year though). If I had to put odds on our chances, I would say 35% to make WCF this year and 10% to win it all. What do ya think?

If the way our front court is playing now is any indication of how we will play in the playoffs, I'd say we have more than a 35% chance of WCF. If we get to the WCF it's at least a 25% chance right? Only 4 teams left at that point.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@cdub00
i think he was being sarcastic

j-mo
j-mo 5pts

Watching that clip of the 8-0 Run from OKC in Game 3 gave me chills all over again. 15 games left (14 after tonight)! Last year at this time we were pretty sure we were going to make the playoffs, but there was that cluster at the 6, 7, and 8 seeds. Nice to know we're definitely in it and it's home court advantage Round 1.

This year is going to be so much fun!!!!

okc baby
okc baby 5pts

@cdub00
This is coming from someone who has never played sports

cdub00
cdub00 5pts

For real though, Perk + Ibaka (developing) + "Ole Dirty" Nick = Mean Enough to win a TITLE!! (Prob not this year though). If I had to put odds on our chances, I would say 35% to make WCF this year and 10% to win it all. What do ya think?

cdub00
cdub00 5pts

@okc baby

Dude, really? Standing in the outfeild isn't exactly strenuous! HAHA

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@Newyorklahoman
i am from NY originally as well

Lefty
Lefty 5pts

@Newyorklahoman
I like your attitude. I feel the same way!

okc baby
okc baby 5pts

@andrew
Your acting like playing baseball was taking time off. Baseball takes a toll on your body 2. hahaha

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@PNT
i wonder if they have consoles on the team plane

beefman63
beefman63 5pts

Calvin and Hobbes ruled! Perk and Ibaka=plenty of nastiness.

PNT
PNT 5pts

@TempBoy Brandon
We talked for a couple of mins. I told him I was a season ticket member and hoped he would get some run tonight against Chlotte. He really wanted to talk games though.

Newyorklahoman
Newyorklahoman 5pts

We were too nice. We needed to get "mean". I don't mind the occasional flagrant foul as long it's in the flow of the game and sending the right message. I have NBA friends all over the US and yes, they are watching the Thunder sans bias. What are they saying? Holy S%#t! You lucky SOB's, to land Perk, Mohammed and freeing up Serge "Iblockkya" is about as good of a move seen in years in the NBA! Now that being said, should we all think the Thunder is going to win a championship this year? Yes! We should think that. Why not?! I'm getting tired of hearing the pundits weighing in with the typical "maybe the next year or two" crap. Hey think about it, the greatest part of sports is knowing you're good enough to win it all, climbing, fighting, working your way to the euphoric end game. So you in? Or scared? Man up, Thunder up!

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@TempBoy Brandon
yeah i dunno, blazers are tough, but with perkins we can match up, but lakers or spurs in 2nd rd is kind of a toss up, we can beat or lose to either

Trackbacks

  1. Hoops Addict » Buzzer Beaters says:
    March 18, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    [...] we know how it worked out.” * It’s a great time to be a fan of the Denver Nuggets. * Does Kendrick Perkins make the Thunder mean enough to win an NBA Championship? I think so. * T.J. Simers is able to sit down with Phil Jackson for dinner. And no, I don’t [...]

Back to Top

Headlines

  • VP Biden called Durant to thank him for donation
  • KD named All-NBA first team, Westbrook second team
  • Perk donates $25,000 to help build shelters in schools
  • Report: Mo Cheeks to interview with the Pistons
  • Thunder land the 12th pick in the 2013 draft
  • Thunder donate $1 million to aid with disaster relief
  • Kevin Durant donates $1 million to disaster relief
Daily Thunder
  • Home
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Contact

Copyright © 2008-2012 DailyThunder.com
Designed by iThemes Creative & Hosted by Site5