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If Rose is everyone’s MVP, why isn’t Westbrook in the conversation?

by Royce Young on March 23, 2011 at 1:42 pm 77 Comments

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Let me just say this up front: I think Kevin Durant is the Thunder’s MVP. He’s quietly had a terrific season, his team is better than last year and his value to the Thunder on both ends often gets overlooked.

And let me say this too: If I were an MVP voter, I’d pick Derrick Rose over Russell Westbrook. The award has “valuable” in it for a reason and head-to-head against Westbrook, I think Rose fits that criteria better than most. As Larry David might say, having said that…

The question has to at least be asked, especially by a Thunder inclined person: If Rose is the undisputed leader for the award, why isn’t Westbrook at least in the conversation?

The breaking point for me in wanting to write this came today when SportsCenter flashed this graphic. Comparing Rose’s season to Magic’s incredible 1986-87 season? And then saying nobody has dominated the position like Magic since Rose this year? (Nevermind that the numbers aren’t really all that similar.)

For comparison:

Derrick Rose: 24.9 points per game, 7.8 assists per game, 44.0 percent from the field, 34.0 percent from 3, 1.1 steals per game

Russell Westbrook: 22.1 ppg, 8.4 apg, 44.1 percent from the field, 32.5 percent from 3, 1.7 spg.

And for good measure, Westbrook grabs 4.6 rebounds a game compared to 4.2 for Rose and on top of that, Westbrook’s PER is 23.60 to Rose’s 23.34. In the end, I think we’d all agree those numbers are pretty similar. (At least more similar than Magic Johnson’s and Rose’s.) Similar enough at least to maybe put Westbrook in the same conversation as Rose. Similar enough to prevent people from saying things like, “Derrick Rose is dominating the PG position unlike anyone since Magic Johnson.” Evidently not.

But that’s the thing — Rose has hype. Loads of it. Every Bulls highlight, every time Rose’s name is mention whoever is talking says, “He could be the MVP!” It’s almost like subtle propaganda. There are graphics putting his name next to Magic’s, campaigns for his candidacy and even Rose himself says he thinks he deserves it. Really at this point, there’s no stopping it. It’s gotten to the level where if you want to go against it and vote for Dwight Howard or Dirk Nowitzki, people will think you’re crazy. You’ll be seen as the guy that’s just trying to be different to gain attention. The pick is Rose. It’s been decided and if you don’t want to get on the train, prepare to be called out.

Again, it’s not like I wouldn’t pick Rose myself. I’m just saying, if Rose is having such a legendary season and is far and away the MVP, why isn’t Westbrook at least being mentioned? I know the reasons people will say. Westbrook has Durant. Rose’s team is better. Rose carried his team through injury. True, true and true. But don’t ignore that Rose has the safety blanket of the league’s best defense and the Thunder aren’t a bad team. Plus it’s a small sample, but the four games Kevin Durant has missed this year, the Thunder are 3-1 and that’s because of Westbrook.

Plus, look at Rose’s own resume. It’s not like it’s entirely clean. He’s the best offensive player in the 13th best offensive team and the worst defender (in terms of plus-minus) on the league’s best defensive team. So while Westbrook has Durant, Rose also has the luxury of the NBA’s top defense. The Bulls have won a lot of games scoring in the 80s and that’s not just because of Rose. It’s because of Tom Thibodeau and the outstanding defensive system the Bulls deploy.

To go with that point, LeBron James has still be part of the MVP conversation for most of this season and he’s playing with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. Same goes for Kobe Bryant playing with Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom. Since when is playing with another good player supposed to hurt your MVPness? That’s the reality though.

I’m a realist, I understand why Westbrook isn’t in the conversation. Heck, the first sentence I typed in this thing was about how Westbrook isn’t even the MVP of his own team. But while this hype train rolls on full steam ahead for Rose, I can’t help but wonder why Russell Westbrook isn’t at least attached somewhere near the back.

A lot comes down to the dreaded “M-word” for OKC. Market. Rose plays in one of basketball’s charter cities, the place that had Jordan and Pippen, the place with six rings and a whole lot of people to go with it. Westbrook plays in little ‘ol Oklahoma City. The Thunder have a pretty solid national following, but that’s largely because of Durant. The fact Westbrook was picked as an All-Star this season is sort of a minor miracle in itself. Clark Matthews made the point on Twitter and it’s hard to disagree: swap Rose and Westbrook’s places and more than likely Russ is the leading MVP candidate.

I know why Westbrook isn’t in the running. I understand all the reasons. Team, role, status, market — I get all of that. I even get Rose’s value to his team is heavier than Westbrook’s, though it’s not near as large as gap as some think. (You really think this team is 45-24 in the West if Eric Maynor is starting those 69 games?) But what I just don’t get is how people can fawn and drool over Rose night after night when he puts up something like 27 points on 11-24 shooting and five assists, when that’s kind of a ho-hum night for Westbrook these days. That’s what I don’t get.

And that’s why I just wasted 900 words trying to make a case for him when there’s really no point. The race is over and Westbrook never had a chance.

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Bryson
Bryson 5pts

I've been arguing Westbrook's case all year...and I live in Illinois, which, let me tell you gets me plenty of crap.

Codysseus
Codysseus 5pts

TempBoy Brandon :
Here’s how I’d rank the MVP candidates thus far this season:
1. Howard
2. Dirk
3. KD
4. LeBron
5. Rose
6. Kobe (How is he ahead of KD in most MVP polls?? The numbers aren’t close.)
7. Wade

Kobe is ahead of KD because of a few things. First, KD has had a relatively disappointing season. He seems to have taken a small step back from last year, or at least stagnated.

Second, Kobe's better. Don't just look at the stats. Kobe's unquestionably the best player on a better team. He's the primary scorer and playmaker. His numbers haven't been as ridiculous as in the past, but he still routinely draws double teams and is terrific at capitalizing on it. He's also a vastly superior defender, something else that isn't reflected in the numbers. I like KD much more than Kobe, but Kobe's every bit of an MVP as anyone else in the NBA.

Codysseus
Codysseus 5pts

" He’s the best offensive player in the 13th best offensive team and the worst defender (in terms of plus-minus) on the league’s best defensive team. " Yeah...that's why you don't just look at plus-minus. Have you ever even watched Carlos Boozer play basketball? My goodness. I mean I know Rose isn't a very good defender, but come on. Booz is bad bad bad, whereas Rose is actually become kinda decent. I know you're trying to make a case for your guy here, I love Russ too, but to suggest that Rose is a worse defender than the complete liability that is Carlos Boozer is absolutely ridiculous. I'll go even further. Despite being quite capable of being a better defender than Rose, Westbrook really hasn't been all year. Honestly, if we're going on effort, I'd say Rose has him beat at that end. I'm sure if Russ had a great coach like Thibs, this would change, but yeah...Russ has been very disappointing on D this year after a very stellar season.

I also don't understand how so many people seem to think Rose winning would be a huge injustice. Are you kidding me? The MVP race is obviously up in the air and only the biggest homers would say Rose isn't in the conversation. He absolutely deserves it. Others (such as Dwight, Kobe, and Lebron) may deserve it more, but there's no reason to be this upset about it. Sure, the Bulls D has been terrific, but you need someone to make plays when it matters to win this many games. In nearly every game, this has been Derrick Rose. I know the media have latched on and all but handed the award to him by this point, which is annoying given how close it is this year, but y'all need to watch more Bulls game. He has been playing at an MVP level, coaches and players agree, even if John Hollinger's fancy advanced statistics don't.

aknike
aknike 5pts

*just

aknike
aknike 5pts

A lot of my co workers and i are fans of the thunder, just because they arent the same old, same old. Theyre fresh, young, and good. Maybe for KD and russ juts a little. ;)

TC_42
TC_42 5pts

Legler needs to take off his Rose-colored glasses.

*rim shot*

C'mon. That's gold.

TempBoy Brandon
TempBoy Brandon 5pts

Here's how I'd rank the MVP candidates thus far this season:
1. Howard
2. Dirk
3. KD
4. LeBron
5. Rose
6. Kobe (How is he ahead of KD in most MVP polls?? The numbers aren't close.)
7. Wade

Joel
Joel 5pts

@f5alcon

+1

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@justin
yeah obviously russ doesnt deserve mvp, but howard is carrying a much worse supporting cast

justin
justin 5pts

dream catcher is like most Rose for MVP supporters - the use of superlatives like "he has a great feel for the game" in lieu of actual evidence that he deserves the award and is better than someone like Dwight (he isn't). This MVP race feels just like the Iverson race. People said the same things about Iverson in the face of numbers that said he wasn't anywhere close to being the best player in the league.

The biggest difference between Westbrook and Rose is turnovers. A Westbrook possession ends in a turnover 2% more of the time. That's a significant amount.

Rose is better than Westbrook, but this comparison is a good one to illustrate how much better someone like Dwight Howard is than Rose.

okc baby
okc baby 5pts

Because of KD

Thunder S
Thunder S 5pts

i think the tone of royce's post is spot on. Even if Rose deserves to be mvp, the media shouldnt pretend this award is purely based on objective measures like productivity and efficiency.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

hopefully spurs can beat nuggets without duncan

anonymous
anonymous 5pts

@f5alcon
word.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@anonymous
i cant find the direct quote either, but i trust royce as one of the better sportswriters out there

anonymous
anonymous 5pts

I guess thats what I get for skimming right down to the comments :-)

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@anonymous
"even Rose himself says he thinks he deserves it."

was from what royce said and that was what i was basing my info on

anonymous
anonymous 5pts

@f5alcon
All ive been able to find is him saying before the season 'why can't I be mvp.'..which sounds more like a challenge to himself, probably RW's 'why not' attitude rubbing off on him during the summer.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@anonymous
i dont see the exact quote but royce mentions it in the article.

anonymous
anonymous 5pts

hmm..well I didn't read that quote. Maybe Diva was the wrong word. But would you agree that overall he's not as annoying as other superstars are? I don't see him flopping a lot or whining about calls and so on.

Daniel Plainview
Daniel Plainview 5pts

There some interesting stuff happening over at the ESPN MVP discussion:

http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/6247260

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@anonymous
how is him saying he deserves to win the mvp non diva like?

anonymous
anonymous 5pts

I'm with those who wash their hands of this debate. I believe it should be Howards award but whatever. I generally like Rose, both as a player and his non-diva like demeanor.

Joel
Joel 5pts

Me thinks dreamcatcher has actually caught one of his dreams! #smh

Daniel Plainview
Daniel Plainview 5pts

spike24 :I’ve got the 2010 FIBA World Championships to show me that Durant is more valuable than DRose when they’re on the same team.

Westbrook was even more valuable

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@clarkem
just 2 actually, but 15 of 25+ fga (russ only has 1 over 25)

clarkem
clarkem 5pts

I'd be interested to see haw many 30+ shot games Rose has. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he leads the league.

Keith
Keith 5pts

@GlennPThunderUp
Yes and no. We can debate about anything until we both are blue in the face, but it doesn't mean both our opinions are equally valid. I could make an argument that James Harden means more to his team than Derrick Rose. It wouldn't be a good argument, but I don't have to listen to dissenting opinion either. Ultimately, I would still be wrong, even if I don't give up the debate.

That's how it feels with Rose. There isn't any concrete measure by which he is the MVP. He's not the best at anything, and not good enough all around to say that he makes up for not being the best at any one thing. Obviously people are making arguments for him until they are blue in the face, but the only way they keep talking is by ignoring anyone who thinks otherwise.

bbark
bbark 5pts

If RW learns to dish instead of forcing shots his scoring field goal percentage and assist will go up. He is not a natural point guard but once he does this he will take his game and the team to the next level. Have the Thunder looked at taking a gamble on Da'Sean Butler for future SF coming off the bench.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

rose may be "more valuable" than westbrook, but not more than howard is to the magic ot dirk is to dallas, dallas lost nearly every game when dirk was hurt.

GlennPThunderUp
GlennPThunderUp 5pts

@Keith
Good point, but as usual, the most deserving candidate is debatable.

Keith
Keith 5pts

@GlennPThunderUp
It's just an award. True, it doesn't affect anyone's game or chances to win. I think the majority of us just think it is right to give an award to the most deserving candidate.

TempBoy Brandon
TempBoy Brandon 5pts

spike24 :I’ve got the 2010 FIBA World Championships to show me that Durant is more valuable than DRose when they’re on the same team.

Shoot, I've got the 2010 FIBA World Championships to show me that Durant AND Westbrook are more valuable than DRose when they're on the same team.

andrew
andrew 5pts

dream catcher :

innocent bystander :
there’s something about Rose’s pretty drives to the basket that creates a hypnotic effect on some people, causing them to lose their ability to think clearly… smh

it’s not just that, its his feel for the game, his leadership qualities, and his ability to take over a game. He is a superstar, just like KD and I wouldn’t be surprised if he is the next big thing ala Kobe.

Do you honestly watch enough Bulls games to tout Rose's feel for the game and leadership qualities? Seems like this is just regurgitation of what the media has been brainwashing us with.

GlennPThunderUp
GlennPThunderUp 5pts

I personally don't see anything wrong with Rose winning the MVP

innocent bystander
innocent bystander 5pts

Jax Raging Bile Duct :
Trying to get a hype-driven demographic to consider being objective in their opinion is a recipe for high blood pressure. When it comes to the NBA MVP, I try to avoid such a job. I do my best to save it for politics where my vote matters and the outcome actually affects the world around me.

hey, if it weren't for heated arguments about essentially unimportant things... sports blogs would have no reason to exist
;)

innocent bystander
innocent bystander 5pts

dream catcher :

innocent bystander :
there’s something about Rose’s pretty drives to the basket that creates a hypnotic effect on some people, causing them to lose their ability to think clearly… smh

it’s not just that, its his feel for the game, his leadership qualities, and his ability to take over a game. He is a superstar, just like KD and I wouldn’t be surprised if he is the next big thing ala Kobe.

wow, you're beyond hope brother! hehe

Greg
Greg 5pts

This is making me angry...

andrew
andrew 5pts

I have taken Jax's advice on this subject. Its not worth my time anymore.

spike24
spike24 5pts

A superstar with a True Shooting % of 54? Please.

Rose is a great player, but he's only "showing leadership" and "taking over" because his defense is getting stops every time down the floor. He has to succeed much less frequently than other superstars because their defense shuts everyone down.

dream catcher
dream catcher 5pts

innocent bystander :
there’s something about Rose’s pretty drives to the basket that creates a hypnotic effect on some people, causing them to lose their ability to think clearly… smh

it's not just that, its his feel for the game, his leadership qualities, and his ability to take over a game. He is a superstar, just like KD and I wouldn't be surprised if he is the next big thing ala Kobe.

spike24
spike24 5pts

I've got the 2010 FIBA World Championships to show me that Durant is more valuable than DRose when they're on the same team.

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

Trying to get a hype-driven demographic to consider being objective in their opinion is a recipe for high blood pressure. When it comes to the NBA MVP, I try to avoid such a job. I do my best to save it for politics where my vote matters and the outcome actually affects the world around me.

innocent bystander
innocent bystander 5pts

there's something about Rose's pretty drives to the basket that creates a hypnotic effect on some people, causing them to lose their ability to think clearly... smh

Hawaiian Rob
Hawaiian Rob 5pts

I shake my fists at the injustice. Are the playoffs here yet?

kfmsooner
kfmsooner 5pts

@Royce Young
Thanks Royce...my laziness

kfmsooner
kfmsooner 5pts

@dream catcher
Disagree. I don't know how Rose next to KD would diminish KD and what he has done. KD is a top 3 player in the league overall. Rose is not...

innocent bystander
innocent bystander 5pts

dream catcher :
Rose is simply a much better basketball player right now. I think if we switched Rose and Westbrook, there would be a lot of Thunder fans who would think Rose is our franchise player not Durant. He has been that good, numbers don’t tell the whole story.

that's beyond ridiculous

Royce Young
Royce Young 5pts

@kfmsooner
Westbrook averages 3.9 per game to Rose's 3.4.

kfmsooner
kfmsooner 5pts

The one case of Rose vs Westbrook that is in Rose's favor is turnovers. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe Russ is 4.5 turns/game and Rose is 3.3...or something close to that.

Rose is a hype machine. This should be Dwight's award. He is leading the league's 4th leading defense that features himself, Brandon Bass, Jameer Nelson, JJ Redick, Jason Richardson, Ryan Anderson and Hedu Freakin' Turkoglu. That's an MVP.

Trackbacks

  1. Hoops Addict » Buzzer Beaters – March 27, 2011 says:
    March 26, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    [...] Terry are having solid seasons, but Odom’s impact on the Lakers has been much greater. * If Derrick Rose is everyone’s MVP, why isn’t Russell Westbrook in the conversation? * Adrian Wojnarowski puts Carmelo Anthony on blast: “Amar’e Stoudemire(notes) dropped down [...]

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