ESPN logoTrueHoop Network
An ESPN Affiliate
Daily Thunder.com
  • Home
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Contact
  • Team
    • Salaries
    • Roster
    • Schedule & Events
  • Commenting Guidelines

Wild Northwest: The Thunder in a new-look division

by Michael Kimball on June 27, 2011 at 1:00 pm 35 Comments

Dilip Vishwanat/NBAE/Getty Images

The Thunder will play in one of the most-changed divisions in basketball next season (please, God, let there be a next season). If the Thunder’s makeup changes at all before the first game, it will be at the end of the rotation and the end of the bench. The Thunder is betting, probably wisely, that improvement will continue to come annually from its young players.

But the rest of the Northwest Division has been anything but stable this offseason. It was one of the most changed divisions during the season as well, with the Thunder, Nuggets, Jazz and Blazers all making trades that impacted the playoff race (and, in three cases, the future of the franchises). But the pace didn’t really slow during the draft. All of the Thunder’s division rivals added, and in some cases gave away, important pieces.

So how do those changed teams match up specifically with the same old Thunder? (Note: The following lists aren’t meant to be comprehensive. They only mention the most significant changes.)

Denver Nuggets

– Key additions: PG Andre Miller, F Jordan Hamilton (R), PF Kenneth Faried (R)
– Key subtractions: PG Ray Felton
– Key free agents: SG Arron Afflalo, SG Wilson Chandler (RFAs); PF Kenyon Martin, SG J.R. Smith (UFAs); Nene (ETO)

The Nuggets lost one of their speedy point guards, but gained a veteran replacement, a guy the Thunder passed on in the draft (causing Royce to lose a lot of sleep this past week) and a small-college rebounding machine with a nonstop motor. But how the Nuggets deal with their free agents, especially if Nene for some reason exercises his early termination option, will be another real factor in how Denver and Oklahoma City match up with each other next season.

But the departure of Felton, replaced by Miller, is especially notable. That makes the Nuggets slower — albeit only when Miller is on the court and Ty Lawson is off it. It will be interesting to see how George Karl uses Lawson and Miller, because it certainly won’t be identical to the way he used Lawson and Felton.

In any case, this probably doesn’t scare the Thunder. Russell Westbrook is capable of decent defense against both Lawson and Felton when he decides to actually play defense. That won’t change against Miller, but Miller will have even more trouble staying in front of Westbrook than younger guards do.

Faried and Hamilton will bring an interesting dynamic. The Thunder’s front line is quite a bit taller than Faried, but the guy can rebound — if he plays much this season. Hamilton will present some matchup questions for OKC, depending on how he’s deployed and how quickly he adapts to the NBA game.

What happens with the shooting guard position in free agency will definitely have an affect on how the Nuggets fare against the Thunder. One would expect James Harden will be much more dangerous consistently next season, whether or not he starts. So which two-guard will Denver keep, and will they keep a second one? Smith has said he’s gone, but who knows. They’ll have to have someone who can come close to matching Harden’s scoring as a third option when the teams meet.

Portland Trailblazers

– Key additions: PG Ray Felton, SG Nolan Smith (R), SG Jon Diebler (R)
– Key subtractions: PG Andre Miller, G/F Rudy Fernandez
– Key free agents: C Greg Oden, PG Patty Mills (RFAs)

Just like the Nuggets got slower with the Felton-Miller swap, the Blazers got faster. Portland was dead last in the league in pace last season at 90.5. There’s no way you replace Miller with Felton and stay in last place in pace, even with Felton playing in the slower Portland system. I’m not sure if that really scares the Thunder, who can keep up with anyone. But Portland-Oklahoma City games will have a slightly different feel.

And yes, I surely did include Diebler as a notable, potentially impact player that the Blazers acquired. Sure, he seems like an end-of-the bench guy. But he’s lights-out from 3. I still have nightmares about Thunder players lunging at open shooters all season long, only to find the ball splash through the net at an unfortunately prolific rate. If Nate McMillan decides he wants to play a shooter for five minutes, Diebler will kill the Thunder with his buckets. Nolan Smith I’m not so sure about in terms of immediate effect, but he’s a smart player with plenty of experience at Duke, so the NBA learning curve won’t be quite as steep. He could play early and play competently, even though he won’t ever likely be a night-in, night-out difference maker.

As for Oden … at this point I’m openly rooting for the guy. I hope he comes back and plays well, for Portland or someone else. But to talk about his potential impact on games with the Thunder, or anyone else, just seems silly at this point. It’s almost like Yao Ming. No one is counting on him being anywhere, and any contributions will be a pleasant surprise.

The biggest difference for the Blazers against OKC and everyone else is the health of Brandon Roy, obviously. At this point, a full healthy season from him would be like adding a splashy free agent. But does anyone expect a full, healthy season from Roy again? What a shame. I hope what it looks like we’re seeing from him isn’t what’s actually happening.

Utah Jazz

– Key additions: C Enes Kanter (R), SG Alec Burks (R)
– Key free agents: SF Andrei Kirilenko, SG C.J. Miles (team option), PG Ronnie Price (UFAs)

The Jazz sure do have a lot of big dudes. Al Jefferson, Derrick Favors, Paul Millsap, Mehmet Okur and now Kanter. At least one of those guys won’t get a lot of minutes, and for now at least, you’d have to bet on Okur. You could even throw Francisco Elson on that list if you’re being charitable.

Kendrick Perkins is fine with me as a counter to Jefferson. He he’ll play against Kanter is unknown (and anyone who says definitively that they know how Kanter will perform at all, especially early in his career, is lying). Serge Ibaka will probably struggle more against Millsap than Favors because of Favors’ unrefined game. Nick Collison plays fine defense, no matter who he’s up against. But those are a lot of competent players the Jazz can throw at the Thunder. If three of them are all playing well on the same night, OKC — along with every other NBA team — will have its hands full. One can at least hope Perkins will be fully healthy next season.

And Burks can play. He may be more of a handful for the Thunder in future seasons, but anyone who kept even minimal tabs on Big 12 basketball last season knows Burks can play. He’d probably look a lot better with Deron Williams as his point guard, but he’ll manage nonetheless. At least for now and probably for awhile though, Harden gives the Thunder the edge at the two guard.

But what I want to know is who on the Jazz is going to guard Kevin Durant? That’s usually a fair question no matter who the opponent is, of course. But Kirilenko and Miles were the most obvious candidates, and it remains to be seen if they’ll be back. Who matches up the best now, Gordon Hayward? An aging Raja Bell? Sign me up for either of those options.

Minnesota Timberwolves

– Key additions: SF Derrick Williams (R), PG Ricky Rubio (R),  C Brad Miller
– Key subtractions: PG Jonny Flynn

This is probably the team most likely to look different the first time the Thunder faces then than they do today. There’s a major logjam at the three with Williams, Michael Beasley, Wesley Johnson, Martell Webster and Anthony Randolph. Something, you would think, has to give there.

But the Timberwolves, who acquitted themselves well against the Thunder a couple of times last season without the major changes, are officially now a potentially feisty team. OKC in particular shouldn’t laugh at Darko Milicic at center — although when Milicic looked like an All-Star against the Thunder early last season, there was no Perk around to put an end to things. Kevin Love is not Ibaka’s best matchup, or Collison’s. Rubio is still an unknown, but he and Luke Ridnour figure to have their moments at the very least. They do have to figure out the shooting guard situation, with Wayne Ellington as the only real two guard on the roster right now.

It will be interesting, at minimum, to see what happens with the Wolves over the offseason (whenever the free agent/trades part of the offseason can really happen, anyway). If Minnesota can pull off a smart trade with its assets at small forward, there could be a pretty good team in the Twin Cities next season. Let’s say they can trade a package with Beasley for a decent shooting guard. A lineup of Rubio, Williams, Love, Milicic and a quality two guard could make a run at .500 in the West with good injury luck, no question. And that’s a lineup that could rise into playoff contention pretty quickly under the right conditions. The players and style would be quite different from the Thunder’s, so it could make for some interesting basketball.

I’m already ready for the season. Let’s end this lockout talk.

Categories
Commentary
Previous Post Monday Bolts – 6.27.11
Next Post Thunder extend Daequan Cook a qualifying offer
35 comments
  Livefyre
  • Get Livefyre
  • FAQ
Sign in
+ Follow
Post comment
 
Link
Newest | Oldest
Michael
Michael 5pts

If presti can find another defensive coordinator of the caliber of ron adams who was poached by Chicago, that's where our biggest improvement on D would come. We had one of the top defenses in the league with Kristic and Unlce Jeff under his guidance.

okc baby
okc baby 5pts

Probably you wouldnt have to score as much if you played it

okc baby
okc baby 5pts

Wonder what MJ, Kobe, Lebron would say about playing defense

Crow
Crow 5pts

Useful summary Patrick. Touched on a lot of things to think about and watch.

The Beard Knows
The Beard Knows 5pts

Probably foolish considering he had the 11th best 3pt% on the season, but I was hoping we could sign Cook for less than 3M/yr.

The Beard Knows
The Beard Knows 5pts

Crow :Some teammate might want to keep a eye on Harden’s weight.

In an interview with Jim Rome Harden mentioned that nutrition was the biggest difference for him from college.

Keith
Keith 5pts

@ Jax Raging Bile Duct
I do think in our two stars' cases it makes more sense. For one, they were surrounded by defenders, so they were basically being given an excuse to not try as hard defensively. Further, they were ALL of the offense in that starting lineup. It would have been impossible for either player to take a possession off on the offensive end without everything grinding to a halt (as it did from time to time).

justin
justin 5pts

Harden was in much better shape by the end of the season. I hope he keeps working this summer.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Thanks for the news tip David.

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

There is a theory that has floated around in basketball circles for a long while that players who play the kind of minutes that KD and Russ play, and also have the responsibility of producing the offense that those two players are asked to produce, will not have enough juice left in the tank to play anything above moderate defense. Coaches always say to exert your energy on the defensive end, and if you need a break or a rest to do so on the offensive end, but of course that is easier said than done. Especially if that goes against the priorities that the coaching staff has given you all year long (which is to score the ball, since basically no one else can).

I don't think there is any data to back up such a theory, but I can't help but think that if KD and Russ didn't have to concentrate so much on scoring that they would be able to produce more on the defensive end.

David
David 5pts

DarnellMayberry The Thunder has given guard Daequan Cook a qualifying offer as expected to make him a restricted free agent this summer.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Perkins too but he says he is going to knock it down.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Some teammate might want to keep a eye on Harden's weight.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Good observation The Beard Knows.

I also see Durant and Westbrook were at around 108 for the season. Produced playing a lot with some of the guys traded but their overall ratings were as bad or worse than those guys traded and they probably benfited some from playing with Perk.

May need the team leaders to show more consistent personal commitment to strong defense. The good results of the last month of regular season games is probably enough or perhaps more than enough. If they can stay within a couple points of that then they really should be outstanding. When things resume, assuming no ill layoff effects.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Looks like the bottom 6 playoff teams in the west slipped by about 6.5 last season so the bottom 6 slipped by more this time but in fairly close to the same range. Last season the Thunder was one of those teams, slipping by 6. So from previous playoffs to this one they had about +4 improvement.

Dallas was the only team to improve this season and nobody stayed the same. Last season there were 2 improvements and at least 2 stayed at the same level differential.

2-3 pts further playoff improvement might get the Thunder in the Finals and possibly a win depending on the comparative strength of the other team.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Actually the Thunder only slipping by 2 pts on net efficiency from regular season was far better than the average in the west for this season. The 6 western playoffs teams that didn't go as far slipped by an average or over 8, with only the Griz also holding the decline to a small amount. I'll have to check to see if that is typical or not.

The Beard Knows
The Beard Knows 5pts

Even the players we traded away ended up with >106 drtg on the year. Mullens was the lone exception and his 85 total minutes carry little weight.

Crow
Crow 5pts

I forgot about Denver. Include them and recognize Memphis got better and the average strength of the opponents in the playoff was at least 3 pts better than the league average (instead of 1.5-2), cutting down of the amount of under-explained defensive slippage in the playoffs.

justin
justin 5pts

I'd be shocked if the defense wasn't 106 or better next year.

Crow
Crow 5pts

105 is almost top 10 on defensive efficiency. I'd be fairly satisfied with moving to 106 if they can keep their offensive efficiency above 110. Still below 105 on defense would be better and should be the goal to expect to go further.

Dallas regular season had 110 offense, 105 defense. In the playoffs they went 113 / 106.

The Thunder went from 111 / 107 for the full season to 109.5 / 107.5.

Dallas in the playoffs compared to regular season improved by 4 pts net. The Thunder declined by 2. The Thunder decline was fairly typical for the playoffs, the Mavs improvement was not typical. A good run and experience and at minimum good coaching. All the improvement on offense. Great shooting helps a lot.

justin
justin 5pts

I think our defense was good in the playoffs up until Dallas. Memphis was just average offensively on the season but much better than average after the All Star break (111.6 ORTG). We held them well below that on the series, and every game except game one. Denver was held below 100 ORTG in three of the five games, and below their season average in every game of the series.

The Beard Knows
The Beard Knows 5pts

@ justin
Wow...and I thought I liked spreadsheets. So do you keep a running tab throughout the year? That would explain a lot.

The Beard Knows
The Beard Knows 5pts

Both Serge and Perk had >100 drtg during the regular season. I think that bodes pretty well for slightly increased minutes next season.
Does anyone know how Thabo has a +25.8 netRtg in the clutch??
http://www.nba.com/statscube/player.html#Thabo-Sefolosha|200757;season=r;splitType=clutch;splitValue=all
Yes, I am aware that the team as a whole has ridiculous "in the clutch" values...well, except NateRob.

justin
justin 5pts

@ Crow

My data source are the boxscores, I use Dean Oliver's possessions formula to calculate all the stuff game by game...

justin
justin 5pts

Oh and I didn't include the last game against Milwaukee in the data.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Our numbers are slightly different. I used hoopdata.com and weighted by total possessions rather than finding the game average defensive efficiency. Justin has his own method and probably used a different data source with a different definition of possessions. Still it is basically the same story.

justin
justin 5pts

@ Keith

I didn't chart track the playoffs, but yeah I think it's inflated because of Dallas and Denver. And I think Perkins' usefulness noticeably went down as the season went.

The Beard Knows
The Beard Knows 5pts

@ justin
Thank you.

Crow
Crow 5pts

It appears the Thunder's defensive efficiency after Perkins started playing was 102.5 in the regular season after being at least 108 before then. It went back up to 107.5 in the playoffs but that was against tougher offensive competition. Probably about 1.5 - 2 points tougher than the league average, based on the regular season efficiency of Dallas and Memphis. The stronger regular season defensive performance might have been a bit about novelty and initial heightened effort or the playoff drop back might have been about bad match-ups or both or other stuff. Both were modest sized samples. Next season could be more like one or the other, up or down.

Keith
Keith 5pts

@ justin
How was our playoff rating? Even that wouldn't be a perfect measure since we ended up facing two of the best offenses in the postseason in Dallas and Denver.

justin
justin 5pts

@ The Beard Knows

DRTG Pre-Trade: 107.8
DRTG Post-Trade: 105.4
DRTG Post-Perkins: 103.4

So 'average' to 'top 10' to 'top 5'.

justin
justin 5pts

@ Jax Raging Bile Duct

Miller goes from slowest team to second fastest.

The Beard Knows
The Beard Knows 5pts

Crow :I can’t see Presti trading Thabo with the Thunder sitting at 15th of 30 on defensive efficiency for the regular season and 9th of 16 in the playoffs… but that was with Thabo. An injured Thabo though. They’ve got to get back into the top 10 on defense IMO to achieve what they want to achieve. With Thabo or without.

Losing Ron was obviously brutal for us defensively. What was our efficiency after the trade deadline and before the playoffs?

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

I think Russell always struggles with Andre Miller. And going from Lawson to Miller is a drastic change of pace. That's going to be interesting.

TempBoy Brandon
TempBoy Brandon 5pts

Just now catching up on today's Bolts and the Chumlee thing reminded me of this trailer I saw over the weekend. Cool KD jersey sighting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbCT6_HAOmM

Alright, Patrick, now I'm gonna read your article. :)

Back to Top

Headlines

  • KD named All-NBA first team, Westbrook second team
  • Perk donates $25,000 to help build shelters in schools
  • Report: Mo Cheeks to interview with the Pistons
  • Thunder land the 12th pick in the 2013 draft
  • Thunder donate $1 million to aid with disaster relief
  • Kevin Durant donates $1 million to disaster relief
  • Serge Ibaka named first team All-Defense
Daily Thunder
  • Home
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Contact

Copyright © 2008-2012 DailyThunder.com
Designed by iThemes Creative & Hosted by Site5