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For a day, the conversation around Kendrick Perkins has switched from his productivity for the Thunder to when he and Timofey Mosgov are having their first “Blake Dunked On Us Anonymous” support group meeting.
But with Perk, an interesting discussion has been building in the Thunder fan base as to whether or not he’s really earning his keep. The Thunder are paying him well and he’s anchored as a member of the long-term core and starting five, but with him putting up career-lows in numbers, should OKC fans be a bit concerned or even frustrated with the play of Perk?
So let’s play some 3-on-3 on the Yung Hawg.
1. Fact or Fiction: Kendrick Perkins is playing well for the Thunder.
Royce Young, Daily Thunder: Fact. If you only watch basketball through the eyes of a box score, you’re missing out on the true value of players. We give Nick Collison all the credit in the world for doing little things like defending the post despite putting up terrible traditional numbers, so why doesn’t Perk get the same benefit of the doubt? You can deny that Perk has had an impact defending big men like Dwight Howard, Marc Gasol and Greg Monroe. Some matchups don’t favor him to where he hurts the Thunder, but that’s up to Scott Brooks to recognize what works and what doesn’t.
Patrick James, Daily Thunder: Fact. He’s there for defense, and he’s defending. I’m sure the Thunder coaching staff would like to see more consistent rebounding numbers — I know I’d like to see it. But he’s providing solid man defense in the post, and when he’s at his best, he allows Serge Ibaka to be at his best as a weakside help defender. Smarter coaching and scheming could probably coax a little more offense out of him — but that’s true of just about every player on the roster.
Brendan Jackson, Celtics Hub: Faction. This is a tricky one. Perkins’ numbers are down across the board this season but if you’re relying on the Yung Hawg to put up numbers you need to readjust your expectations. Even if Perk isn’t producing like other starting centers, he sets fantastic screens, he brings leadership, and most importantly he brings toughness.
2. Fact or Fiction: Thunder fans should expect more from Perk.
Royce Young: Fact, but I say that without extreme conviction. Mainly because when Perk slimmed down and got into great shape, I think a lot of fans expected this kind of Perk. The one that dunked on people and swatted shots into the stands. He’s done some of that, but not to the extent he did in Boston. Perk and Sam Presti both said the thought the best was yet to come for Perk, but we haven’t really been seeing that.
Patrick James: Fact. But I’m not talking about his play, I’m talking about attitude control. It’s gotten to the point where Perk’s prodigious technical foul rate isn’t really cute anymore. The toughness that he brings to the floor is exactly what the Thunder needed, but I think it’s possible to achieve that toughness and even nastiness without loading up on techs. Tyson Chandler provided the mentality that helped the Mavericks win the title last year, and he did it without collecting techs at the alarming rate Perk is. It’s time to chill out a bit.
Brendan Jackson: Fact. When Perk was in Boston, anything he brought to the table outside of intangibles or showed up in the box score was considered a luxury. This season though, Perk has slimmed down and not all of his baby hooks are hitting the front rim. Perk is the type of guy who will want you to expect more from him and more often than not he’ll deliver. The bottom line: sometimes you don’t notice Perk’s contributions until he’s gone. Seriously. Ask ANY Celtics’ fan.
3. Fact or Fiction: The Thunder are 29-8 with Perk in the starting five. That’s not coincidental.
Royce Young: Fact. I don’t see how you can deny Perk’s impact on the Thunder’s win-loss record. He’s not a game-changer like Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum, but he doesn’t need to be. I love a role player that understands his role and doesn’t try to step outside of that box. Perk knows he needs to defend, communicate, screen and push people’s buttons. He does those things well. Stats are good and can indicate issues or things that need to be tweaked, but the most important thing is winning, which the Thunder have done with Perk.
Patrick James: Fact. The trades in 2011 balanced Oklahoma City’s roster, and that needed to happen. The Thunder has done well without a true small forward in the rotation other than Kevin Durant — what OKC needed was size and post defense, and that’s what it got last year. We’re still waiting for everything to truly click on all cylinders, especially defensively … but OKC is still one of the NBA’s undisputed top teams. As long as you believe incremental improvement will indeed come, there’s nothing broken about the Thunder right now that won’t be fixed.
Brendan Jackson: Fact. Ask any slasher what it’s like to attack the basket when Perkins is protecting the paint. Even LeBron James will tell you he has to think twice. Ask Dwight Howard what it’s like to face one of the only guys in the league that can body him up without fouling. Put it this way: I’ll give OKC the two centers on their roster (Jermaine O’Neal and Greg Stiemsma) for Kendrick Perkins. I don’t even have to ask the Celtics for permission to make this deal. They’ll thank me later.
All you guy's do is complain.He's a presense down low and honestly i don't think at any time he was expected to score or do anything more than be.... intimidating.I mean you cant have it all.That's what happen's when you have a good team ,all of a sudden people find stupid things to complain about.Let's not forget the ring on his finger which if i'm not mistaken is the only one we have on this Thunder team.
@YoniFromIsrael nazr has a ring as well.
@f5alcon Sorry my mistake but the point is pretty clear i think.
I think his play is detrimental to the team. He costs us points, posessions etc. All the stupid technicals add up. All the times he receives the ball in traffic and bubbles it. When he catches a rebound he bubbles it. All the shots he takes from 15 and barely front rims. When he tries to back someone down its either a travel or an errand shot. Giving him the ball is like giving up posessions. That is absolutely ridiculous for an NBA player. The bad way outweighs the good. I haven't even seen any good defense from him lately, especially yesterday when Clippers drove in for layups and dunks over and over.
@RemifyWho else on the team can guard strong post players? Howard, Bynum, Gasol etc.
Part of this coaching, Brooks has to know when to and when not to use perk.
You can't use perk against athletic quick big men with lots of hops, he doesn't do well.
Part of this chemistry, Perk needs to communicate with Russ and KD if he is in place where he is not comfortable scoring rather then turning it over.
Yes, Perk needs to improve but he needs help too.
@ThunderWins Why not Cole? Certainly Nazr is the answer. He is more agile, I think he can stay with athletic centers better.
Another thing is the whopping 30%+ turnover rate for Perk, isn't as bad on paper as it really is. The turnovers (when he gets an entry pass and supposed to gather and take it up for a dunk but he fumbles the ball because he has no hands) go to the passer not him. So, its more like 50%+... He causes us way more points than he gets back with good plays. I would seriously rather see Cole develop and maybe struggle at first than watch the offensive debauchery that Perk is. To everyone that thinks Cole can't body up strong offensive players, you are wrong. Cole would look like an offensive jggernaut in comparison.
@ThunderWins Nazr ISNT* the answer, maybe me lawl when I reread after posting, its early...
I always hope starting Collison and giving Aldrich some minutes.Perk and Ibaka are not smart players at offense end and play without contact.Collison can set screen and find easy baskets.I remember Perk had some good passes to him.More contacts between big men can improve our offense.
But cannot starting collison hurt his efficiency and our backup?I dont know.Our starters and backups play different basketball.Maybe it will be another starting harden story
It's incredibly annoying that Kendrick Perkins has been trending worldwide and in the US pretty much all day. Get over it people. Sheesh.
@Daniel Hawaii When it happened my immediate reaction was groan, now we'll have to be subjected to that for the next 20 years and it'll bring back memories of that turd of a game.
@Old Man Game@Daniel Hawaii Even worse, any future great dunk by any player anywhere will now be compared to that one - and we'll be reminded all over again.
@Old Man Game When I got to work a couple of hours ago, I was greeted with my computer having a fullscreen snapshot of the dunk on it. My co-workers keep saying Kendrick Perkins as they walk by me. It's beyond annoying.
@Daniel Hawaii@Old Man Game Ah, the benefits of being self-employed: nobody touches my computer.
Perk's rebounding is just the most obvious, but it's pretty clear that we're not fundamentally sound rebounding as a team. When Jordan (a 47% FT shooter) was at the line last night, KD consistently got pushed under the basket by Butler. KD's length saved any offensive boards, but it won't always.
Just messing around on the trade machine... Would any of these three teams make this trade?
A 1st round pick goes from BOS to CLE and a 2nd round pick goes from OKC to CLE as well (or something along those lines, basically CLE gets a draft pick or two with at least a 1st)...
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6lz8pxu
I think Harden gets lost in the sauce in the starting unit. Kinda like Thabo does at times. Harden seems like he is competing for touches instead of playing loose. When he gets the ball he wants the score and thats it. Takes him out of his game. Where as with the bench he can score and distribute.
@OkcBaby The biggest problem with James starting is we don't get any production off the bench. James wastes minutes when he's in the game with KD and Russ. His minutes are better spent with the 2nd unit, running pick and roll with Nick. Last night, we saw virtually no James/Nick pick n roll.
@OkcBaby Bench points when Thabo is out:
25 vs. Dallas (and actually Thabo played a little bit in that game).
14 vs. Portland
22 vs. LAC
Obviously, that's not a lot of production.
@Daniel Hawaii @Mr_F I really agree with all of that (and I love the idea of starting Cook when Thabo's out), but it's not clear what was mucking up Harden's play last night. It could have been him starting, us being on the road, or some other unknown issue. And one thing that definitely needs to improve is Harden/Russ/KD getting a better balance to the offense when all 3 are on the floor.
@Mr_F "You can structure the rotation so you always have one of Harden/Russ/KD on the floor."
Yes, you can. But I don't know how to describe it other than Harden looks "fresher" coming off the bench. He's just not the same when he starts. Starting seems to affect his play with the 2nd unit too. He's not in his usual routine. He's not comfortable. The rotations get all mucked up.
I would start Cook so that James and Nick can come in at their usual 4 minute mark of the 1st quarter. I think the rotations will fall into place as normal after that.
@Daniel Hawaii @OkcBaby I don't think it's points off the bench per se, you can structure the rotation so you always have one of Harden/Russ/KD on the floor. It's just that Harden doesn't look as comfortable or do as well with the starting unit right now. Plenty of time to develop that chemistry, though.
Our big men just didn't show up at all last night:
Perkins 23 mins, 2 pts, 5 rebs, 1 blk, 4 fouls, -17
Ibaka 31 mins, 2 pts, 5 rebs, 1 blk
Collison 15 mins, 4 pts, 1 reb, 1 ast
Mohammed 6 mins, 0 pts, 0 rebs, 2 blks
We need more from the PF and C position, especially against the elite teams.
@Daniel Hawaii So in a combined 75 minutes, our bigs "produced" (and I use that term in the loosest possible sense) exactly 8 pts, 11 rebs, 4 blocks, and 1 assist? 4 guys did that? In just over 1.5 games of playing time? Wow...those are the numbers for ONE good player in ONE game - not 4 players in a game and a half. Fugly!
@Daniel Hawaii yeah aldrich did better in 1 minute that nazr did
@f5alcon Would definitely like to see more Cole if Perk/Nazr continue to struggle.
@Daniel Hawaii yeah, i thought we should have this past weaker schedule just let nazr rest a few games.
Splitting 1 out of 2 on the GS-LAC road trip isn't the worst thing in the world. The Clippers were hot from three and we didn't have Thabo. As soon as I saw that Thabo wasn't going to play, I had a feeling we were in for a long night.
Seriously Thabo, what's wrong with you man? Foot soreness? FOOT SORENESS??? What do you have, gout? I have gout. I pop a few colchicine pills and I'm fine. Come on, we need you man!
@Daniel Hawaii It can be serious. He probably has pain shooting up his leg. Sucks
@OkcBaby Yeah, it must be pretty serious for him to miss such a big game against the Clippers. I'm sure he really wanted to play.
Last time we played Dallas without Thabo, we got killed. If we don't have Thabo again tomorrow, I expect another ugly outcome for us.
@f5alcon Beaubois has been starting. He had 8 pts and 7 asts in his last game, 14 pts and 7 asts in the game before that, and 22 pts, 7 asts and 6 rebs in the game before that.
So no Kidd is not necessarily hurting the Mavs.
@Daniel Hawaii well they are missing kidd, so that means terry starts at pg and russ and not harden will be on him
@Daniel Hawaii I'm betting it's his Plantar Fasciitis flaring up.
"We give Nick Collison all the credit in the world for doing little things like defending the post despite putting up terrible traditional numbers, so why doesn’t Perk get the same benefit of the doubt?"
Nick does not put up terrible numbers. Scoring efficiency always high, turnovers not that bad, etc. Perkins' productivity is on another planet.
@[censored] yeah for comparison
nick has a ts% of 69.9, perk is 54.1
nick ast% is 10.7 perk is 4.1
nick tov% 17.9 perk is 30.7, which is crazy, almost 1/3 of the time he has the ball he turns it over.
The only area where nic is worse than perk is his rebounding percentages.
Am I the only one that thinks this?
Anyone notice our last two losses were in Washington DC, KDs hometown - and LA, Westbrook and Harden's stomping grounds?
I wonder what the nightly festivities were like on these two road trips for the youngsters? Maybe it didn't have an impact, the big two put up big numbers last night. Still it makes me wonder.
Not judging. I was young once. Let's just stay focused on the prize. Go Thunder!
@mr Lucky I wondered that for sure. The dudes didn't exactly look well rested, more like hung over as bad as those defensive rotations were.
@Mr Lucky it wouldnt surprise me, if that was the case, especially because they were in LA for days
@f5alcon@Mr Lucky KD went and saw "Safe House" the night before the game lol
@Mr Lucky Actually, if there's a similarity in the Wizards and Clippers games, it's that both those teams have huge big men (Jordan, McGee, Blatche, Griffin) who out-jumped, out-muscled and out-rebounded us.
@Mr Lucky i think its simpler than that KD played fine in Washington and Westbrook played fine last night, Harden played poorly in both games
Haven't seen this anywhere else on the site, sorry if I missed it and am reposting. Westbrook was named player of the week for Jan 23-29: http://www.nba.com/2012/news/01/30/players-of-the-week/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2
So is thabo back?
@Lost Ones He is listed as Day-To-Day, maybe he was sent back to OKC, maybe he will play.
We just need to get Thabo back and we'll be fine. We're 16-1 with a healthy Thabo in the lineup. When James is forced to start, we get no production from the bench.
If Thabo isn't healthy tomorrow, I might actually prefer to see Daequan Cook start instead of James.
@Daniel Hawaii Yeah, I think Harden's going to need a good amount of practice/experience to find his role with the starting lineup. Daequan's spot up game would probably fit more easily into the offensive role that Thabo's been playing for us.
In all of our four losses we've played horribly.I think it says enough about our team.
@ILikePancakes
Good point and to further that, Perk's biggest "let down" games were games against the mobile and agile centers where a brute force doesn't match well.
sigh. perk slimmed down over the summer. focused on that and conditioning. Had very little practice time for a hectic, compact, and challenging nba schedule. Hes not racking up points, he seems slower, blah blah blah. People! HES NOT DWIGHT HOWARD. I swear everyone thinks he should be this machine thats hes not. Perk is defense FIRST. Considering WHOM hes dealing with i think hes doing well. As royce said before, would you trust cole against dwight, bynum, nene, z-bo? Hell no, at least NOT right now. You guys are writing off perk WAY to fast here. I mean damn guys, he lost 30lbs JUST to show his dedication to this team. Hes helped with more than just that too. This team got a bit more...BITE to their bark with perk. If presti thought the way over 80% of you on here do we wouldnt have anyone on the team anymore :P . It would just be KD standing alone lol.
@Legendary_Dork
If you compare him to Nazr Mohammed, then yes, he is Dwight Howard.
@Legendary_Dork No one is expecting him to be Dwight. Honestly, I don't think anyone here cares how many points he scores. But it shouldn't be overlooked that he is turning the ball over at a ridiculous rate. It shouldn't be overlooked that his defense only encompasses within 10 feet of the basket effectively. If shouldn't be overlooked that he has one of the worst rebounding rates in the entire league (for a center). None of us are even saying we have anything better.
The comparison is to his career and our team's needs. By both measures, he has been well below expectations. He is literally playing the worst basketball of his career. That's still good enough to beat out the rest of our Cs, but not inspiring any confidence.