Daily Thunder.com 3-on-3: Replacing Maynor

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Losing Eric Maynor for the season is a major blow to the Thunder. No matter what happens, any time you lose a player of his caliber, it hurts. But you have to move on and you have to keep playing. But without a major rotation player and one with a good amount of playoff experience, the Thunder are going to have to keep going. How should they handle it though? Keep it in house, go outside or get creative?

1. Who should back up Russell Westbrook now?
A. Reggie Jackson
B. Royal Ivey
C. James Harden
D. Free agent

Royce Young, Daily Thunder: A. Not just because he played well in his first game, but you have to at least give Jackson the chance. You never know, you might have a diamond in the rough. You might have the next Eric Maynor. You draft players to develop, to build depth and to have ready when needed. Jackson is needed now and it’s time for him to play. Sure, I’m concerned about a rookie possibly playing 15-20 minutes in the Western Conference Finals, but you just have to hope he’s ready.

Patrick James, Daily Thunder: A. Easy to say now after Sunday’s great start against the Spurs, yeah. But the answer, at least in the short term, would have been A from the moment Jackson got drafted. I think Ivey can give 10 minutes of low turnover basketball, hit open shots, run the offense and do his job as a man and team defender. But Maynor was a true playmaker in addition to being a steady hand for the Thunder, and Jackson has the potential for that added dimension. He’s a different kind of player, but it’s the potential for that extra edge that’s important, not the kind of package the edge comes in. Jackson is the rookie with the longer contract who could use the chance — and almost a full season of experience before the playoffs — so he should play with Ivey always there if things go south.

J.A. Sherman, Welcome to Loud City: A. You draft players to use them, right? In the past draft, the Thunder took Jackson with the 24th pick, a semi-controversial selection when such players as Jordan Hamilton were still on the board. This is Jackson’s moment to prove that he was worthy of the selection. Also keep in mind that Maynor played heavy minutes as a rookie himself, which is what allowed him to become such an organic component of the Thunder’s make-up.

2. If the Thunder were to sign someone, who do you like?
A. Carlos Arroyo
B. Acie Law
C. Aaron Brooks (available in March)
D. Earl Boykins
E. None of the above

Royce Young: E. Aaron Brooks is mildly intriguing to me, but I wonder about trying to fit in a new piece that late. I’m not even answering my own question here, but I just don’t think looking at the free agent market is the way to go. Unless Reggie Jackson gets hurt or really struggles to the point it becomes painfully obvious it’s hurting the team, bringing in someone from the outside doesn’t seem like the answer to me.

Patrick James: E. Brooks would be great, but someone will probably pay him more than the Thunder would want to unless he wants to take a half-season flyer on a contender before hitting the open market in the summer during the traditional free agent period. The flexibility that comes with not having signed one of the other guys is probably more valuable to the Thunder having any of them playing from zero to 12 minutes per night. Ivey seems more than capable of giving you whatever those guys would, and he’s already on the roster if Jackson doesn’t end up being a season-long solution somehow. Unless something goes really wrong with the backup point guard position, the ability to react to another future problem is probably a better card in the deck with Ivey already on the bench.

J.A. Sherman: E. The Thunder don’t need to sign anybody, because I don’t think there is anyone currently available who is demonstrably better for the Thunder than who they have already. From a pure talent standpoint you could argue that someone like Aaron Brooks is more game-ready, but that discounts the value of the Thunder culture and how it fosters team cohesiveness.

3. How much does Maynor’s injury affect the Thunder’s chances of winning the West?
A. A whole lot
B. Some
C. Slightly
D. Not at all

Royce Young: B. Possibly more though. You can’t forget how Maynor played the entire fourth quarter in Dallas against the Mavs in Game 2 of the WCF. Can you picture Jackson doing that? Scott Brooks doesn’t have the luxury of a steady, even-handed point guard to play behind Russell Westbrook now. You win in the postseason because of two things: Stars being stars and depth. The Thunder still have the big names like Durant, Westbrook and Harden, but without Maynor, that depth will be tested.

Patrick James: C. There’s just no way it can’t affect the Thunder. Maynor is the best backup in the league and a guy who could start for a mess of NBA teams. That’s a tough guy to lose. And the Thunder players are, by all accounts, as tight-knit as it gets in pro sports. There’s no way it doesn’t factor on and off the court. But there’s plenty of time for Jackson to learn and blossom on his own. Maynor himself was a rookie when he came in and showed he was a keeper during the Thunder’s run to 50 wins and six games against the Lakers in 2010. Jackson is athletic, talented and reportedly a hard worker, and he’s been promoted into the rotation of a Thunder team that is better than that one. If Jackson can play in control and do his job, it’s easy to let Kevin Durant and the Thunder’s other weapons help him look good.

J.A. Sherman: B. Maynor’s injury could have some impact on the team’s chances because a) they do lose a proven performer who can step into clutch situations (Game 2 of WCF); b) clearly Maynor has a close relationship with his teammates; and c) his loss thins out the bench. OKC still has sufficient talent to compete with anyone, but without him the margin for error shrinks. That said, I think that the team is going to rally around the guys they have and work hard to minimize the loss.

f5alcon

i would take aaron brooks as rental for the year, but jackson is fine.

Though i disagree with patrick that maynor is the best backup PG in the league, top 5-7 sure, but better than mo williams or rubio?

Jax Raging Bile Duct

7 Like

@f5alcon You gotta remember that there are only two people on the face of the planet that are qualified to judge Eric Maynor in any sort of negative way; Steve Nash and John Stockton. No one else could possibly understand or know the intricacies and subtle nuance of Maynor's game. He is the embodiment of everything that ideal theoretics specify about the position, and is such a savant that there is no modern day team able to properly display his many facets of perfection. Instead, they just muck up his value with their rudimentary perception of the purity of the game. Hard facts and statistical sciences, though they are proven in every other discernible or measurable area of life, have no way of accurately assessing Maynor's perfection, value or ability. Maynor is such a team player that he only runs the plays that are called from the bench and/or rehearsed in practice, though he knows exactly how to get 4 points per possession on every single offensive possession. Every time Eric misses a shot, it's because he doesn't want to show up his other teammates. He, quite simply, is the Chuck Norris of the NBA. Questioning his place in the world is not only heracy, it is lunacy in it's clearest form.

BeautyandThabeet

@Jax Raging Bile Duct I wish I could "like" this twice, good work

TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard

@Jax Raging Bile Duct can we please get this as a 100 ft fathead mural to put across the front of my house?

Barry Amenema

@f5alcon "lol, i look like my avatar, hand drawn and everything."

...as do I

f5alcon

@Jax Raging Bile Duct lol, i look like my avatar, hand drawn and everything.

Jax Raging Bile Duct

@f5alcon @JimboSlice I'm going to try to be there. I'm 90% sure I'll make it. I'm the guy who looks like catholic jesus with a draft beer in his hand, so find me and say hi.

f5alcon

@JimboSlice @Jax Raging Bile Duct I hope jax goes to the watch party next week.

f5alcon

@Jax Raging Bile Duct that sir is brilliant.

OkcBaby

@f5alcon How many minutes do those guys get? Who is Rubio backing up? Just sayin

f5alcon

@OkcBaby mo williams is playing 26mpg 10ppg 4.5apg maynor is only playing 15mpg and 4.2 ppg and 2.4apg and lower fg%

maynor being a top 5 backup pg is not an insult.

andre miller is also averaging 10 ppg and 6apg for denver.

sessions is 10ppg and 4.8apg

f5alcon

@OkcBaby His PER is worse and his fg% and assist/to ratio. Him being the 4th best backup isnt bad, you make it sound like it is some huge insult.

OkcBaby

@f5alcon Minutes adjusted doesnt really tell you anything. Its guessing. Those players have a more active role then Maynor. Maynors minutes increased his role would increase. His numbers would increase % wise

f5alcon

@OkcBaby so minutes adjusted he is still behind, p36

maynor 10ppg 5.8apg and 2.9tov

williams 14.2ppg 6.1apg and 2.6tov

miller 13.6ppg 7.8apg 1.8tov

sessions 16.7ppg 7.9apg 3.3tov

OkcBaby

@f5alcon Exactly 26 mpg is a more then 15

61 comments

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Daniel Hawaii

I mean no disrespect, but come on. Maynor averaged 4 pts and 2 asts per game... that kind of production isn't going to be hard to replace. We'll be fine, and dare I say, even better now that Reggie Jackson, who I feel has a higher ceiling than Maynor, is going to get more minutes.

[coke head]

Maynor's a good backup but overrated some by fans of the team, especially considering some of the other backups out there like Andre Miller, Mo Williams, Ricky Rubio... I don't think the team will be greatly impacted by the loss, Maynor's not a super-productive player.

@[censored] Do you get anything right. You flip flop on Westbrook, wrong about Thabo, saying Maynor would get replaced. Took a major injury to sideline him. You just need to give up:)

jallenmorris

@[censored] Rubio is a starting PG in waiting.

Lasers

@[censored] But what a bummer! It's hard to overstate just how good he makes our team look a lot of the time. As someone who likes to watch basketball, that will always count first for me.

@Lasers Yeah it stinks for someone to get injured. I wouldn't attribute the second unit's success to Maynor, or even in a huge part to Maynor. He's had a part in it for sure, but Harden, Collison, etc. mean way more.

okcjim

@[censored] @Lasers
Maynors production is similar to Collisons. He doesn't care about his stats and he doesn't have a lot of impressive stats. He keeps the offense flowing (which is what makes the 2nd team a threat). The ball movement on the 2nd team (similar to how Dallas and San Antonio get shots) creates the open looks. He also is not afraid to pick his moments when the team needs a little boost to go get some points. He did this at least one or two games in every playoff series last year. His stats aren't overly impressive but Maynors value is not measured in his stats.

I hate to say it but it is actually kind of fun watching a new player make his way and blend with the other guys. I hate that we lost Maynor but watching Jackson develop (or not) and mesh with the other guys will be one of the things I'm excited about the most over the next few weeks. One thing Jackson can bring that Maynor couldn't is another physical presence at the point on defense. He's 20 pounds heavier than Russ so he can body guys up get more physical with guys than Maynor could. He should also be able to muscle his way to the basket a little bit better. He's got a nice, under control pull up jumper and his 3 pointer looks good. Those are things to build on. The fact that he works like the other guys is also a huge positive.

ou_sas

@okcjim as long as he doesn't bite hard on pump fakes like he did in the 4th, yesterday, lol.

GeoLogger

That was great, agree with Jimbo too - you already bought the foul shots make it two or less instead of maybe three.

@ou_sas @okcjim i loved that he came down and basically tackled the guy though. if youre gonna get caught biting on a pump fake, may as well finish like that lol

@ou_sas @okcjim that was a welcome to the nba moment.

HookemKD

Interesting stats:
KD is third in minutes played but not even top 20 in mpg
KD is second in points but fourth in ppg
KD is second in FGM and FGA. He's 2 FGM and 9 FTM off of 90/50/40
Russ is third in FGA... Eighth in FGM
Ibaka is second in blocks, fifth in bpg
KD is fifth in PER at 25.9, Harden is sixth at 25.4, LeBron is at 36.8
Harden is third in offensive rating and 2nd in off win shares. Ibaka is 14th in offensive rating.
No Thunder players are in top 20 in Defensive Rating.
Russ in second in TO, KD is third. No OKC players are in top 20 of TO %

@HookemKD we have played more games than any other team except lakers. So our totals are going to be higher. lebron's PER is insane right now, i guess he wasnt happy with rose being mvp last year.

@f5alcon @HookemKD Also, not having to share it with D.Wade is helping, I should imagine.

We played a old Spurs team minus Ginobli. Come on now. What would we be like minus Harden. Exactly. We can still be good. Harden definitely not going start. So you can move on to another dream. We can keep KD in longer. Hope Cooks starts to fire up. Naz and Collison look fine.

The thing worth pointing out, I feel, is that the second unit was essentially running 2 point guards (or at least, one point and one combo). Everyone on here agrees that the Harden-Collison PnR game is a thing of beauty and that Harden was the primary facilitator on the second unit. With Maynor out, that's not going to be affected. What is more likely is that Harden is almost inevitably doomed to the 6th man role unless Jackson can create for the second unit as a whole. Harden's role on that unit is almost amplified now, unless you stagger your rotations differently so that either Harden or Russ is on the floor at the same time. (Or, for that matter, the new and improved KD with his summer-tested handle).

@ou_sas jackson might be a better scorer than maynor which will help the 2nd team, however brooks is not going to change the lineups now and thabo has been better this year, so not much reason to.

@f5alcon Thabo's resurgance helps solidify Harden's spot on the bench. Though at least he's getting starter's minutes now.

Now if only Thabo would take those open 3s that Russ gets for him. It seems like he passes up at least one a game.

walrusmuse

Jackson is certainly different than Maynor, and while E's poise complemented Russ well, and his scoring was helpful at times, Reggie could (could) be a nice scoring option if Russ is off one night-and to shake rotation up with Harden having more and different minutes. It keeps Lazar from too much, and if Nazr or Nick aren't scoring-gives the bench a little more floor spread. Too soon to tell, for sure. As of right now though-I think we can be optimistic. His confidence was good last night-here's hoping it doesn't lead to too many turnovers-in which case we will have a problem. Not to be lost is Russ' apparently improved passing-his TO's still bad right now, but I'm also still optimistic for that to improve.

@walrusmuse I think the true test of Jackson's overall impact is how well he'll defend the pick and roll. I think his offensive impact and floor spacing is mitigated by Harden to a large extent, and Cook to a lesser extent. I've noticed teams are respecting Cook more this year than last year. I don't think he has to be an assist machine, or a scorer, and I'm not too worried about his turnovers. But if he can't effectively guard the pick and roll then teams in the playoffs will twist our arms with that advantage.

@Jax Raging Bile Duct I was wondering about some of that too. I know it is way early to guess what he will be like, but he has been way better than I expected this early. Too bad we couldn't pace his development more. Some guys do seem to benefit from being thrown in quickly though, even if the team suffers some in those "beneficial" early sessions. It just seemed like TJ Ford owned him on the speed breaks.

@Jax Raging Bile Duct @Dominator very good points too-I neglected to watch that too closely-tho I did notice his speed (and apparent tired was according to Darnell) was pretty good. But yeah-defensive smarts don't necessarily come automatic. Cooks improved D will help tons, especially without Eric.

Dominator

@walrusmuse Very good points. I agree, although I think its worth adding - that Thunder were very dynamic with Maynor coming off the bench as they were able to change the style when Maynor was on the floor. Reggie may be a better scorer than Maynor and as you point out this could be very helpful, but he doesn't have the passing prowess (as far as I can tell)

Grolgar

Maynor only averaged 2 assists per game... are people overrating his passing prowess?

andrew35

I am not worried about losing Maynor at all. I think Reggie will do well as his replacement, and it could even lead to more minutes for Harden which is always a good thing.

It would take another injury in the backcourt before we would truly be impacted by the loss of Maynor imo.

slapdoghoops

Losing Maynor is big as the Thunder loses a good playmaker and facilitator that the Thunder need considering the fact that their starting PG does not touch that with a ten foot pole.

Perk has a lot of value to our team

My gut says Presti will put on a move to get Beaubois from Dallas for a first

Seriously?!? Beabois sucks. He is very inconsistent (unless you consider usually doing nothing consistent). Talk to a Mavs fan about him... they're all over his supposed "potential."

@diddoff You mean get Beaubois again? Remember, we traded him for Mullens on draft night. Can we remember that ages ago when we were actually concerned about our bigs? My how times change.

@diddoff The times I've seen Beaubois he looks like more of a 2 than a 1. I'd rather have Jackson.

Old Man Game

Which teams do people think pre-injury Maynor would have started for? I think maybe Minny and other than that I'm coming up empty. Who am I missing?

@Old Man Game Not much of a thinker are you:)

Maynor is a career back up, not a starter.

@OkcBaby Oops, I fan afoul of Okc Baby's unwritten commandment, thou shalt not speak ill of, or question the skills of Eric Maynor.

@Old Man Game This year? Maynor wouldn't start over Rubio. I think there are two teams that Maynor would push for starter minutes - the Knicks and the Bobcats. I don't even see him starting in Toronto ahead of Barbosa or Calderon.

@Jax Raging Bile Duct @Old Man Game There's no way Minnesota would start Maynor over Ridinour or Rubio or probably even Barea (They are actually one of the most stacked teams in the NBA with PGs). He'd have a decent chance of starting on: Miami, New York, Lakers, and probably Detroit. Saying that... he was a very good backup - especially for the Thunder because he complimented Russ's style so well. His value for other teams probably wouldn't be so hight

@Dominator @Jax Raging Bile Duct Well right now Luke Ridnour as the starter in Minny (Aldeman appears to like Barrea and Rubio coming of the bench for now) so I could see him beating out Ridnour but I guess this gets to the point of my original question, I don't see Eric Maynor as starting for "a whole mess" of NBA teams. I think he is a backup PG in this league. The Knicks is a good thought though. Douglas is not working out from what I understand.

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The Point Forward » Posts Loss of Eric Maynor creates ripple effect « says:

January 9, 2012 at 2:44 pm

[...] perhaps Thunder fans are wringing their hands over nothing. But we’ll see. Those killer second units, some of which were three-guard lineups featuring [...]

3-on-3: Replacing Maynor

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