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The Thunder and ‘Royal Jelly’

by Royce Young on January 27, 2012 at 1:47 pm 23 Comments

Joe Murphy/NBAE/Getty Images

The Thunder have obviously been extremely successful in the draft, partly by luck and partly because of wonderful advanced scouting and homework done by the front office.

But I’ve always kind of wondered if Sam Presti and his staff did such a great job drafting, or if they just did a great job developing. Maybe that’s a chicken-or-the-egg type of thing, but when you look at it, Presti really hasn’t whiffed on a draft pick yet. Byron Mullens looked to be a swing-and-a-miss, but all he really needed was a chance, which he’s getting in Charlotte.

On the NBA Today podcast, basketball genius David Thorpe was on and explained his theory of “Royal Jelly.” What’s royal jelly? It’s the stuff that baby bees get that turn them into powerful queen bees. Some guys are born with it. Some guys need it given to them, by the hive (or organization) if you will.

Thorpe says James Harden and Russell Westbrook both needed a little royal jelly (15:30 mark) to become the players that they are right now. Basically his point is, had either of those guys, specifically Westbrook, gone to a different organization, the chances they would’ve busted would’ve been much higher.

“They needed the exact right environment for them or I think had they gone to different places, they would not be the players they are,” Thorpe said.”I think had [Westbrook] gone elsewhere, we would’ve seen much more drama, much bigger issues and not nearly the level of player we’re seeing now.”

The reasons are for all the things you see with Westbrook right now. His emotions, his personality, his chip on the shoulder, his erratic decision-making — take that to any other organization that might not have the culture of the Thunder that was keen on development and Westbrook could’ve been a ticking time bomb. Lots of players have NBA ability. But not all of them have what it takes between the ears and not all of them are gifted with the right kind of culture to help them fully realize what they’re capable of.

And that’s really the core of the so-called Thunder Model. I honestly think the Thunder’s front office feels that if they do their homework and scout a player that fits not just because of talent, but because of mindset, work ethic and mold-ability, that they can turn anybody into a good basketball player. Other front offices tend to take the shot at what they see as the great talent, the can’t-miss player. Presti, other than Kevin Durant who was a no-brainer, went in consecutive drafts for the guy people weren’t so sure on. Both Harden and Westbrook were guys that everyone agreed had talent, but how much upside is there really? They might be decent players, but top five guys? Prime candidates to bust, as Thorpe said.

There are guys you can’t screw up like LeBron, KD, Kobe Bryant and Dwight Howard. There are guys that are just going to be great no matter what, because as Thorpe said, they already had the royal jelly. But some guys need it given to them, whether that’s through a coach or an organization.

I remember last year at the trade deadline there was some noise the Thunder might try and acquire Hasheem Thabeet. People obviously thought this was crazy. But Thabeet has talent and Thabeet has ability packed into a 7-3 frame. And I truly believe if he were in OKC’s “program,” as Presti loves to call it, he would develop into a solid NBA big. Maybe not as great as his No. 2 overall draft pick status would suggest, but a serviceable big man.

It’s not just Presti. It’s a whole organizational approach. From the top down, the Thunder want to build from within, using their own tools to shape and mold players. The Thunder pay attention to detail like no other. Everything is part of the process of development from the way players eat, from the film they watch, to playing time, to how they practice. It’s a completely encompassing plan.

I don’t know what the secret sauce is, but there’s something in there where the Thunder just have a great sense for A) what makes a good candidate and B) how to bring the best out of that candidate. It’s not just drafting right and then saying, “Go for it, young man!” It’s about picking the guy that fits the program and then going to work. The mindset is, if you come to Oklahoma City and don’t leave a better basketball player, that’s on you, not the organization.

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Stephen Jackson is not about this spelling
Stephen Jackson is not about this spelling 5pts

How good would demarcus cousins be if we spread some our jelly on him?

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

My question to coach Thorpe is: IS there a royal jelly that will work on Demarcus Cousins? 5 years ago I would have said there was no royal jelly that could fix Zbo. But I'd have been wrong. It's still strange to see this version of him play so well in Memphis.

Russbaka harKDen
Russbaka harKDen 5pts

Let's get that W tonight!

Predictions for the Big 3:

Westbrook - 22/5/6

Durant - 31/7/3

Harden - 14/3/4

Joe_
Joe_ 5pts

I agree completely with the premise of this post.

It's said that a good supervisors primary job is to give his employees the tools they need to be as successful as possible. In this case, Presti is the supervisor, and the tools are the nurturing environment with the right amount of motivation and discipline (without being too giving or too lax). The coaching staff are part of this as well.

It's also said that a supervisor gets the crew he deserves. Hence, when the top guy is a knucklehead (I'm talking about you Isaiah Thomas, David Khan etc), you get knuckleheads for a crew. Our guy at the top isn't a knucklehead.

TravisTilton
TravisTilton 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Am I the only one that thought this was going to be an article about Royal Ivey?

Keith00
Keith00 5pts

My thoughts on Brooks in this process:

Brooks has a done great job creating an environment conducive to growth, creating an atmosphere where players believed they can improve. In some cases (Westbrook) it was about unleashing potential. In others (Harden), it was about putting him in position to work slowly and individually on his own game. My problem, and this is something that was even touched on to some degree, is that Brooks doesn't seem to have enough accountability. Players need rules and boundaries as much as anyone - they are mostly still kids when they come into the league.

Where Brooks has fostered an ability to grow and express talents, I'm not sure he has the acumen to be the strategic dictator that players still need. Look at Ron Adams. When he was there to lay into our guys for missing even the smallest assignment, our defense was fantastic even with lesser individual defenders. Every year since he left we have been worse than the year before. Without the authoritarian, our players have become lax (and it's not even difficult to see that they are not as focused on defense as they have been in the past.

At a certain point we need a Larry Brown (at the extreme example) or Doug Collins (the more measured example). Those coaches demand something of their teams and players, and the players respond to meet those demands. What does Brooks demand of this team besides effort (which is well and good, but not getting the best of the talent available)? I think the kids have grown up a lot, they've been given the room and showed what they can do. What they need now is someone who can round out the rough edges, fit the pieces together, and raise the expectations from simple effort and talent to crisp execution.

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

@Keith00 I had a Brooks PROS and CONS post a few days ago that said similar things as you just did. So suffice it to say - we agree on this.

RRRWHOAAAA
RRRWHOAAAA 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I think this is true for most players, and point guards especially. I honestly think that if rose had been drafted by say, the twolves, he would not be MVP. Rondo's career would have been very different had he not been in boston. John Wall would likely be doing much better if not playing in DC. I think many of these players, had they been drafted by other teams, would be masters of a different fate.

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

Im not impressed by reggie at all yet.

TynanPatrick
TynanPatrick 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Lost Ones its the lockout man, Reggie got thrown into the position he is in and really didnt get any time to acclimate. he is learning everything on the fly insted of in training camp and offseason workouts. its a tough way to do things.

supreethm92
supreethm92 5pts

@Lost Ones neither am i, but he sorta got thrust into a role that's bigger than his ability in the NBA right now. He doesn't have the same feel for the game that Maynor has and has been developing over the past 2 seasons. So, I'd give reggie til the playoffs because we can afford for him to make mistakes with the solid play of the rest of our backcourt this season with Thabo and Cook shooting well, and Harden and Westbrook continuing to round out their games. Reggie's only real job is to play hard on defense and not turn the ball over and Harden and Collison do the dirty work when it comes to offensive execution with the second unit. The only thing Reggie needs to improve right away is his communication skills because he's not a true point guard. Like Royce pointed out the other day, he needs to be more commanding when he calls plays and be able to call them out on the fly and learn that he doesn't have the authority that Westbrook does when it comes to breaking plays to attack.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

@supreethm92@Lost Ones

since becoming the full time backup

reggie has played 128 mins is shooting 31.6% 14 assists 13 TO

maynor had played 137 mins was shooting 36% 22 assists and 11 TO

So while worse than maynor, not too bad for a rookie.About even with Cj miles, daniel gibson

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

i don't thabeet would have done well here, he has the mental issue that mullens does, we can take players who play hard and focus that into talent, but we seem unable to take lazy players and make them care.

Landstander
Landstander 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

This is really similar to how good companies work. They aren't always concerned with the highest GPA straight out of school - they want someone with ability who can also be a good employee.

It also makes people want to go work for those companies, since they aren't filled to the brim with idiots with 4.0 averages.

I'm hoping other players will see this and be excited if drafted by / traded to the Thunder

SammyThunderer
SammyThunderer 5pts

A lot of our ability to nurture Westbrook and Harden is the confidence we gave them to fail without fear of repercussion. It's an important ingredient that, with the standards of play so much higher now, we haven't been able to provide players like Cole and Reggie. Even though Reggie's minutes are pretty much guaranteed with Eric's injury, it's clear our 'vets' are giving him a hard time for rookie mistakes and its hurt his confidence.

sammasaaron
sammasaaron 5pts

@SammyThunderer Great point about Reggie. I think part of it is that Harden doesn't quite trust Reggie like he does the other guys on the second unit yet. I'd love to see some more plays that get Reggie and Harden working together. If they can develop a feel for each other like Nick and Harden have it would help out Reggie and the whole second unit. It might also reduce the need for the ball to be in Harden's hands so much with second unit.

TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard
TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard 5pts

@SammyThunderer eh Russ yes, James not so much. His leash was unbelievably short until he was basically almost already groomed into the player he is now, just in smaller minutes and a smaller role. Russ was almost the opposite in that he didn't have a leash at all.

Thunder S
Thunder S 5pts

@JimboSlice@SammyThunderer I think the thing w/ Harden was nurturing aggressiveness. He was passive coming in and didnt always assert himself. the coaching staff helped that.

TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard
TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard 5pts

@Thunder S@SammyThunderer the coaching staff and the lockout. James REALLY seemed to benefit from all the charity games and being a star over the summer

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

I probably should have added that I think it's a two-way street. Russ, Serge, and Perk give passion to our more laid-back guys. So there's a lot to be said for finding the right mix of personalities...and finding guys who can co-exist peacefully.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

@Thunder S I agree with you. Harden had to be taught to be more aggressive. However, because James is more laid-back (as is KD...and Nick, Thabo, and Eric), I think that helped keep flare-ups with Russ to a minimum. Serge has a tendency to play emotionally, too. But they're surrounded with calm guys, so that's the way they encouraged to go. If they were surrounded with hot-heads, the chemistry on the team might be a nightmare.

Trackbacks

  1. The Daily Peep, Jan. 27 « HoopSpeak.com says:
    January 27, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    [...] Haven’t listened to David Thorpe on NBA Today yet, but I want to. Royce Young makes this “royal jelly” thing sound interesting. [...]

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