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James Harden, point guards and those final two minutes

by Royce Young on March 14, 2012 at 2:54 pm 257 Comments

From 7:26 to 4:13 of the fourth quarter last night against Houston, the Thunder scored on seven straight trips. Nine if you include offensive rebounds. Ten if you include a steal by Durant that led to a free throw.

All 10 of those possessions had a common denominator: James Harden was running point guard.

From 2:30 to the finish, the Thunder scored on only two of their final seven possessions. James Harden was not running point guard then.

Now, it’s important to note that the defense really is to blame more than anything else. When you’re up 11 with two minutes left, you should have enough points to win a game, assuming you make free throws. And the point of this isn’t to point a finger at Russell Westbrook, who hadn’t turned the ball over once the first 46 minutes of the game and was mostly putting in another stellar performance, but more to look at Harden running point.

Since the loss of Eric Maynor, the Thunder have kind of been trying to figure out exactly what they have behind Westbrook. You can’t play Russ the full 48 minutes — actually, you probably could… — so it’s mostly been the job of Reggie Jackson to keep Oklahoma City ticking while Westbrook sits.

We’ve seen Scott Brooks use Harden as a point guard at times, but mostly in the way the Thunder like to interchange who brings the ball up. Sometimes KD runs “point,” while Westbrook is off the ball. Sometimes Perk runs point too, but that’s not intentional. Anyway, as the postseason approaches where each minute is more important than the last, it’s become apparent that Brooks has the option to just use Harden as his de facto backup point man.

That was on display last night against the Rockets as Harden completely dissected the Houston defense in the fourth quarter. The Thunder ran a simple pick-and-roll with Harden and just let him make a decision out of that. He’s such a savvy, smart player that each choice he makes is calculated. It’s like he’s got his own version of Synergy in his heads where he can see the play developing before it happens.

But why did Brooks go away from it? Well, as you see in the above video which is every possession of Harden running point, the Thunder failed on his final two possessions in charge of the offense. One was a Harden turnover that nearly resulted in KD being killed and the second a shot clock violation. Brooks said the Rockets changed up their defense, but really, the change was that the Thunder didn’t run pick-and-roll at all, instead just isolating Harden. They essentially put him in the nightmare Russell Westbrook often has had to live with, standing alone at the top of the key with no ball movement and the shot clock breathing down his neck.

Things had completely stalled out, for whatever reason, so Brooks turned to the trusty Westbrook-Durant two-man game. If the offense was going to go stagnant, at least have the ball in the hands of Westbrook or Durant who have proven time and again they can hit tough shots. That much made sense. What didn’t, was why the Thunder stopped running that pick-and-roll with Harden? Brooks saw the offense fail twice in the hands of Harden and probably felt like he’d wrung every drop of that set he could. But in hindsight, he should’ve at least tried the set that had worked seven straight times at least once more. Get Harden in that pick-and-roll and let him create something.

I like the Thunder’s development in closing games with the Durant-Westbrook sidescreen-and-roll. Or just getting Durant the ball in a workable position. Both have been really effective. But the point is, having Harden take charge in late situation adds a third dynamic, something that should make the Thunder’s crunch time sets more diverse and that much harder to defend.

You’ve just got to trust it.

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ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=79nudr5

SammyThunderer
SammyThunderer 5pts

 @ThunderWins That's better than Randolph for Aldrich straight up, but:

a) Ridnour is on the verge of being traded to Portland

b) That leaves a gaping hole in our big man rotation this year and going forward (unless you're excited for a whole lotta Nick/Randolph lineups)

c) See my response to your Aldrich for Randolph trade below.

and

d) Let's move this to the Bolts thread so I can close this tab

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @ThunderWins Idk that would work. Presti wouldn't give both centers and Minny' wouldn't want more center depth. Also I don't see why Minny would give up Ridnour.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @ThunderWins Meant to say I dont think not Idk

SammyThunderer
SammyThunderer 5pts

FWIW, the returns Memphis and Toronto got on Sam Young and Leandro Barbosa were both worse than what the Bobcats paid for Mullens.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

http://www.dailythunder.com/

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

Woops http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/03/thursday-bolts-deadline-edition-3/

neo12
neo12 5pts

Yawn..

Barbosa to pacers.  Sam young to sixers.

Hope the lakers don't pick up sessions, they could be a threat  if they get beasley and sessions.

Thunder Head
Thunder Head 5pts

Shot clock violation - Has anyone mentioned that iBlocka's dunk wasnt a violation of the shot clock.  It appeared that the ball wasnt out of his hand when the light came on, but before that it looked as if the ball easily touched the rim before the light as he was taking the ball over the rim for the dunk.  If the ball touches the rim 1st, then doesnt that count?

 

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @Thunder Head   This was what my wife and I were wondering, too!  Does it have to leave his hand or is touching the rim enough?  Because...it sure looked like it touched the rim before the light came on.  Agreed, though, that the game shouldn't have come down to something so trivial.

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @TaoMaas  @Thunder Head It has to be out of the players hand before the shotclock buzzer is all.

Thunder Head
Thunder Head 5pts

 @ThunderWins  @TaoMaas

 I disagree. If the ball touches the rim, it should reset.  On a shot, it does have to leave the hand, but that is because the rim not in the picture.

Also, yes, many areas lost the game for us, but this was something I just had not seen discussed. 

 

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

 @Thunder Head there really is no exuse for losing that big of a lead in 2:30, if we just let the shot clock expire every time we would have been better off.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @Thunder Head We lost the game in a lot of ways. That was just one of them

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @dancassidy35  @Thunder Head Had we not gone to hero ball WIN!

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @Keith00  @f5alcon Presti I put you on the clock...

While we are in contending team with a window that could close any time.

 

Get Mr Brooks help NOW!

Keith00
Keith00 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ThunderWins  @f5alcon Agreed. But if that was going to happen with our current staff, you'd think it already would have. Adams was the guy that kept players honest and focused on the little things defensively. There is a reason our defense has gotten worse every year since Adams left despite our defensive talent increasing.

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @Keith00  @f5alcon That's why the answer to the question was all three.

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @Keith00  @f5alcon Yet the coaching should be all over him until he corrects it, stay with your man KD! Stop cheating

Keith00
Keith00 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @f5alcon  @ThunderWins It worked for Tayshaun Prince for years and years. The problem is that KD doesn't yet realize what the right amount of space is, and isn't focused enough in contesting. If he was a half second quicker on reaction, he could shade as far as he does. But because he not an instinctive defender, he just ends up giving up open shots.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

 @ThunderWins  he shades off his man way too much, he seems to think he can close th distance with his length.

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @dancassidy35  @Thunder Head For working so hard on offense KD is neglecting defense massively.

 

Coaching, Desire, or Ignorance?  which of these is preventing from being take that level of his game to the next level?

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @ThunderWins  @Thunder Head Between Russ having a meltdown down the stretch and KD letting Parsons do whatever he wanted, I wasn't too surprised when the clock ran out

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @dancassidy35  @Thunder Head Heck had we played a lick of defense WIN!

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

Here's a more Presti like move but I would miss Cole.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=88ysdow

 

SammyThunderer
SammyThunderer 5pts

 @ThunderWins Yep. Trading a guy we drafted and developed who's on a rookie contract and slated to have a role in the rotation next year if not sooner for a guy known for his poor work ethic and terrible bbiq and who's about to become an RFA. Sounds just like Presti...

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @ThunderWins I don't know how I forgot about Randolph. Like this a lot more then I like my Beasley Idea

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @ThunderWins Can he play any SF? I don't think Minny would really want Cole, they have big depth, maybe we could send something else like pick plus Nazr (expiring) or maybe Cook

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @ThunderWins So assuming we got one of the two from Minny. Our bench would be RJ (wish Ivey)/Harden/Randolph or Beasley/Collison/Cole. I know Beasley can fit there but would Randolph?

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @dancassidy35  @f5alcon Honestly at this stage of the game any offense that involves more then just KD and Russ playing hero would be fine with me!

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @f5alcon  @ThunderWins I think we need to focus on executing at a slow pace. We have the most trouble when we get slowed down. 

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

 @ThunderWins well dantoni just became available, and we have the players for a 7 seconds or less offense.

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

Also many of us wondered why he reupped Nazr and now it looks genius.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @ThunderWins I'd love grabbing a big and see Ivey play PG

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

I wish Presti would surprise us by grabbing an assistant either on defense or offense.   That would affirm my belief future.  Poaching a low post PF or C or decent backup PG would be terrific.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @ThunderWins One benefit of getting Randolph/Beasley would be hopefully to part with Nazr in the trade.  

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

Yep but cole is too slow its apparent.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

 @ThunderWins we have one named aldrich, but brooks doesnt play him.

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

we need a big man we can throw out there who can rebound and finish close to the rim.  Randolph is great at the although he does have low BBIQ sometimes.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @ThunderWins If we got either Randolph or Beasley I'd be happy, provided we don't lose anyone important.

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @dancassidy35 I actually wasn't sure who to send to minny but they are so loaded on Forwards i think we could poach one.

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @dancassidy35 Rebounding we need, but he is soft on D

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @dancassidy35 Consider he is just wasting away not even playing in Minny its a waste.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

we really need to win tonight, get back to a 9.5 game lead in the division.

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @f5alcon It hilarious we have lost twice out of three games and the division is still wrapped in a neat little bow.  WOW!

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts

 @ThunderWins  @f5alcon And mathematically, our magic number to clinch a playoff spot is 14 at the moment (Minny). To clinch the Division, it's 16.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6qqhjqq

Basically it's Beasley for Cook and Nazr. I know that the kid is a bit of a knucklehead (understatement) but I'm not real afraid of him having a bad effect on the locker room and I've always thought that Harden should have a guy to come off the bench with (I'm finally ready to accept Uncle Jeff will never come back and fill that role haha). I realize that we'd have to throw in a pick and even then Minnesota would probably not do it, but would you guys be down for it?

ThunderWins
ThunderWins 5pts

 @dancassidy35 http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=76acw3c

 

Like this better but would never happen lol!

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

 @dancassidy35 I don't want Beasley on this team. Two volatile personalities on the team is enough, adding a 3rd is too much. Besides, Beasley is an inefficient scorer who mentally checks out of the game if he doesn't get a certain number of shots. When he isn't getting touches, he doesn't make up for it with hustle in other areas. He is an inefficient scorer at that. We already have one volume scorer in Russ, a second one would just not work well.

 

Regardless, I realize that he's a name that (at least in this part of the world) seems to always be the darling of a trade that fans cook up. He'll probably have to retire before I stop seeing his name mentioned as someone who could help.

shiki
shiki 5pts

 @dancassidy35 he didn't have negative news in t-wolves.I think Brooks is glad to see more players who can play ISO in this team

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @shiki His contract expires at the end of next year right?

shiki
shiki 5pts

 @dancassidy35 I think he will be a RFA this summer

SammyThunderer
SammyThunderer 5pts

 @dancassidy35 Beasley looks like he's gonna be a Laker.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @SammyThunderer I guess if you are Minnesota, what do you want more, Jamal Crawford or Cook/Nazr/Late pick. Probably Crawford ):

Trackbacks

  1. Thunder sweep the Mavs behind Harden’s career night, 103-97 | Daily Thunder.com says:
    May 5, 2012 at 10:18 pm

    [...] doing it in typical Harden style. He got into the pick-and-roll, isolated, attacked and finished. It was similar to what we saw Harden do in that Houston game, except this time, Scott Brooks wasn’t afraid to just let Harden seal the [...]

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