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Report: Thunder and Heat frontrunners for Derek Fisher

by Royce Young on March 19, 2012 at 11:49 pm 56 Comments

Harry How/NBAE/Getty Images

Via Marc Stein of ESPN.com:

The Miami Heat and Oklahoma City Thunder have emerged as the early leaders in the race to sign veteran guard Derek Fisher after he clears waivers on Wednesday, according to sources close to the situation.

With the Chicago Bulls needing another big man more than another guard and the San Antonio Spurs still hopeful that they can complete the signing of guard Patrick Mills by week’s end, sources told ESPN.com that Miami and Oklahoma City are the current frontrunners to land Fisher, who was formally waived Monday night by the Houston Rockets.

As Stein wisely notes, Kevin Durant now shares the same agent as Fisher in Rob Pelinka, which might have some kind of factor in this. But as for what “frontrunner” means, it could be that Fisher has zeroed in on the Heat and Thunder. Or it could mean that those teams and Fisher have mutual interest. Hard to know.

Here’s the thing: Derek Fisher isn’t that good anymore. He’s a poor defender and doesn’t add a whole lot offensively other than the ability to knock down an open 3. The thing everyone cites that he adds is veteran leadership and championship mettle. Those two things aren’t exactly tangible items and while I do believe they exist, the question is whether or not you go sign a guy just for them.

Would he be a better backup point guard than Reggie Jackson? I don’t know. Probably. Here’s a better question: Would you feel better about him playing eight minutes in the Western Finals or Jackson? I think I’d choose Fisher. But then again, I’d actually feel pretty good about Royal Ivey getting those minutes as well instead of Jackson. Which I think might be an even better question to ask: Would you rather have Fisher, or Ivey as your backup point guard?

The Thunder did browse the market at the trade deadline for point guard help according to a league source, but that’s not really a surprising thing. The front office naturally was going to look to improve the team if the right option was there. Like, what if nobody made Cleveland an offer for Ramon Sessions and all it took was a second round pick. You make that call, you know? But with Fisher potentially falling right into the Thunder’s lap, it could work out rather well.

It’s not even a guarantee he’d become the backup point guard though. That role could still fall to Jackson. Maybe the Thunder just want Fisher’s experience in the locker room. Maybe they feel his voice would blend well in there. There’s no doubt Fisher is a tremendous teammate and an outstanding leader, but is that enough to pay him and cut a player?

Fisher clears waivers on Wednesday. So I guess we’ll probably know then.

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C-Wil
C-Wil 5pts

He had two years left on his deal when was shipped to Houston. When he got bought out, the second year was dropped so that means we could bring him in just for the rest of this season and a playoff run, then have no strings attached by year's end.

 

I would not disapprove the move.

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

Fisher's turnover percentage (TOV%) is even worse than Russell's this year. I only went to look because the only thing I could think of that would be useful to us where Fisher is concerned is that I thought at least he wouldn't turn the ball over. But scratch that.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

you know what's sad is that fisher's 3 point percentage is only 1% worse than cook's and cook is a 3 point specialist and fisher is a washed up player.

Jooseppi
Jooseppi 5pts

No thanks.

sammasaaron
sammasaaron 5pts

I get that Fisher has leadership skills and has won championships, but we also already have Nazr and Perk who have won championships, not to mention Scotty Brooks. At some point, you have to stop bringing in players on championship experience alone.

BeautyandThabeet
BeautyandThabeet 5pts

I want Fisher to be on the Thunder. He is a playoff player. Everyone says he is old and busted, but they have been saying that for years. The truth is, when its all on the line, Fisher shows up big. But I dont think he would get crunch time minutes anyway. Scott Brooks has surprised me before...

 

Clark Matthews
Clark Matthews 5pts

Ivey is NOT a point guard. Jackson, whose ball handling terrifies me, is light years ahead of Royal.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

@Clark Matthews If you had asked anyone on this board a few months ago whether Ivey had any value other than a place-holder on the bench, you would probably have gotten a 100% vote that he was worthless. Now...after having been given a chance, we're suddenly much smarter about Royal. I'm not sure whether Royal could handle running the 2nd team, but what I DO know is that we've been very, very wrong about his abilities in the past. I like Reggie, but I kinda feel like he's a new driver who has been tossed the keys to a Porsche. You can let him drive it every day to school and at the end of the year he still won't know how to get the most out of it as even an average driver who has had the opportunity to drive a Porsche every day for the last 10-12 years in all sorts of situations...grocery trips, cross-country vacations, and on race courses. I think the Thunder need a more seasoned hand running the 2nd team. Harden can do it with Reggie in the line-up, but I feel like he ends up doing as much on-court coaching as scoring. Our 2nd team is very much an "old school" team. They need an old school PG.

Royce Young
Royce Young moderator 5pts

 @Clark Matthews That's all he's really been his seven previous years in the league... Not a great one, I'd admit, but that's been his primary position.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts

 @Royce Young @Clark Matthews  he played next to joe johnson in atl, so he was a PG then, but he was the shooting guard on the bucks, 76ers and we have never had him play point, so there is not a clear answer, he has played both positions. His career ast% is more in line with a SG than a PG

okcjim
okcjim 5pts

 @f5alcon  @Royce Young  @Clark Matthews Well Russ is a SG too so that would work out.

TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard
TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

If we get Fish, let's take him as a coach. He can't play

Jokazc
Jokazc 5pts

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/03/19/kings-hickson.ap/index.html

Lasers
Lasers 5pts

heat plz, ty

courtsense
courtsense 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I'm not sure why anyone thinks Ivey is even an option here - he may be listed as a PG on the roster, but in these recent games where's he's gotten some time, he hasn't played PG or even touched the ball other than to shoot corner 3's. At least Fisher could run the offense and let Harden play off the ball occasionally.

SRSinger92
SRSinger92 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @courtsense I'm not really sure about Ivey handling the ball. As you said, he hasn't really played at the position much during games. But Ivey has one thing that (in my opinion) is much more valuable that anything Fisher would bring to a team hoping to make a deep playoff run. Defense. Fisher doesn't have it, which is why he was traded.  Looking at the point guards on Western Conference teams in the playoff hunt, if Reggie starts to struggle bad enough to require replacement, I'd rather have Ivey in the game with Harden running the offense as opposed to Fisher running the offense while being a defensive liability.

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts

I think I have seen Ivey run the PG position--just not recently.  Seems Royce thinks he's an option . . . .

MichaelMacG
MichaelMacG 5pts

If Reggie struggles in the playoffs all we have to do is have Harden run the point with 2nd unit and plug Ivey in at the wing and lock down D.  Harden runs the point for half of the 4th quarter now anyways.

Thunder S
Thunder S 5pts

talk about 'change of pace' backup pg if we get fisher. 

jallenmorris
jallenmorris 5pts

 @Thunder S Harden's old-man game and Fisher's old-man speed would match up rather nicely.  Add in Collison who never seems to rush anything and we'd be able to grind a lot of time off the clock in letting RW and KD rest.

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts

Ivey.

Aren't
Aren't 5pts

I'd rather have Turiaf but if Presti wants to get Fisher and thinks that he'll help the team, then I'll take his word for it. He's smarter than I am.

dream catcher
dream catcher 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

bballbreakdown aka coach Nick doesn't think we will win a Championship with Westbrook at PG. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0_CeUzud_g

 

thoughts?  tough video to watch, but it points out that Westbrook has a LOT of holes in his game.

Jax Raging Bile Duct
Jax Raging Bile Duct 5pts

 @dream catcher I wish he would do this kind of video after every game so people could see that this type of play from Russell isn't indicative of a bad game that we lost, but every game that Russell plays. 

Thunder S
Thunder S 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

To be fair, i think he has improved his decision making though- the laker game was a good example. like scott brooks said after last years's playoffs:

"With Russell, we analyze every possession. I do that myself when we break down the films. But it seems like everybody’s breaking down the film. They’re like in my meetings or in my head. It’s not fair to him. It’s really not fair to him. He’s developed into an All-Star in three years. Not a lot of guys you can say that played the 2-guard spot in college and only for two years and can come in and lead a team that had a bad record three years ago and become an All-Star and make the playoffs twice.

He gets criticized for every bad game. He’s not the only player that has a bad game. He’s not going to be the only player in the future that has bad games. But the only thing I can say about that is Russell knows what he needs to do. And we talk to him and he’s coachable and he wants to get better. He controls his improvement, and he has done that. He doesn’t listen to the critics because you can’t. You have to be hard on yourself and he is. And I’m hard on him. And we have an understanding that we only get better when he continues to improve and he has improved for three straight years. And that’s all I ask for."

 

sammasaaron
sammasaaron 5pts

 @dream catcher Response to the bballbreakdown analysis from WelcomeToLoudCity:

http://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2012/3/20/2885885/why-russell-westbrook-is-a-championship-point-guard-end-of-story

jallenmorris
jallenmorris 5pts

 @dream catcher What's in a name?  A Rose by any other name is a Westbrook.  Why do people insist on placing labels on RW?  We have one of the best records in the league with RW the way he is. His strength is that he is not conventional. Could RW play better in certain situations? Sure. Does that mean he is NOT a point guard? Technically there is no such thing as a PG position.  Last I checked, there are 2 guards, 2 forwards and a center that start. 

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @dream catcher   Absolutely useless, IMHO.  There's not a person alive who couldn't be shown to be horrible at their job if the only evidence we use is their worst moments.  True analysis weighs the positives and the negatives...then comes to a conclusion.  We might as well look at the other night's Portland game to prove "why Lemarcus Aldridge isn't really an All Star".  We could have plenty of highlights showing why he can't even beat an old center with bad knees.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @TaoMaas  @dream catcher Russ does a lot of these things a lot.  More than other players at the position too.  Like Sammy said, it's tough to make the claim unilaterally that the Thunder will never win because of him, but most of the things Coach Nick points out are things Russ does do on a regular basis.

shiki
shiki 5pts

 @TaoMaas  @dream catcher  people dislike Russ shooting,people dislike Lebron passing,it is not easy for players to make choice 

SammyThunderer
SammyThunderer 5pts

 @dream catcher It's brutal and accurate, but I think the jury's still out on whether all the bad habits he has are enough to nullify all the positive assets he provides. That Spurs game was an especially brutal example of Westbrook's poor decision making, and I think it's already a foregone conclusion that Russ' bad habits cost this team several games a season and in the playoffs. What the net balance is, though, is much much harder to tell.

persiansooner
persiansooner 5pts

 @dream catcher Ive always notice the stuff on the offensive end which kills me, but im not an astute enough observer on defense to where i can really judge someone on something other than man to man (which this video mercifully does not comment on)....so as someone who has never been very high on westbrook this did not help

persiansooner
persiansooner 5pts

 @dream catcher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSsrTs0vWHA&feature=plcp&context=C4514e3cVDvjVQa1PpcFNSGoghozBwCwJz-wLPv0zqZLcJZqs2kew=

 

NO improvement

 

 

Daniel Hawaii
Daniel Hawaii 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @dream catcher This should be required watching for everyone, ESPECIALLY Russell Westbrook.

ZackZ232
ZackZ232 5pts

 @Daniel Hawaii  Is there any way to actually get this done? I've been watching games and mid way through thought, "Does Brooks even talk about this? How come these things aren't being corrected?" 

Daniel Hawaii
Daniel Hawaii 5pts

 @dream catcher Geez, that was disturbing to watch, to say the least.

After watching that, Royce might want to revise his weekly Thunder player rankings. Russ should not be #1. I didn't even think he should've been #1 after the Cavs game debacle.

This is all scouting work that should be done by the coaching staff. We shouldn't have these many major defensive gaffes in one basketball game. It's just embarrassing.

This video supports my stance that we are still at least 2 years away from a championship.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dream catcher It's all accurate.  Many of the 'little things' pointed out I hate that Westbrook does.  The 3PA with nobody in rebounding position, falling down on layup attempts, mid range jumpers early in the clock.  He definitely has to get better.

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts

Plenty of valid criticism and lots of room for improvement, but . . . . if I pick any point guard and declare that he will not lead his team to a championship this year, I have a 96.66666666666666667% chance of being right.

neo12
neo12 5pts

 @dream catcher Ouch brutal, but good analysis.  The only way to correct these things is to have the coaching staff call him out on this kind of play.  But alas, that aint going to happen.

ghendrix6
ghendrix6 5pts

 @neo12  @dream catcher

 A lot of very valid points in that analysis.  The pouting, ending up in the third row seats after a missed layup, complaining to the refs on every play that does not go his way and shooting 3 pointers with 19 seconds on the shot clock have all got to stop.

 

I have to say though, while this guy makes a lot of valid points, he does some nit picking.  Some of his points about RW's play can be said about any player in the NBA.  That stuff just makes the guy seem like a RW hater and rubs salt in the wounds of the real RW problems.

 

courtsense
courtsense 5pts

 @neo12  @dream catcher This is all the same stuff some of us here point out every single game - but we're just called haters by the fans who see RW averaging 25 a game and assume that therefore everything is hunky dory.

 

Needless to say, I agree with this coach, which is why I'd trade RW + Ibaka over the summer for a veteran PG/PF combo. 

sammasaaron
sammasaaron 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @courtsense You know, I've just been impressed that he's managed to improve to 9th in the league in PER and at only 23 no less. But I guess that's silly, and I should just be sh*tting on his game because he's immature. My mistake.

Thunder S
Thunder S 5pts

 @courtsense  @neo12  @dream catcher cant disagree with any of it. the real question is - between brooks, mo cheeks, the rest of the staff, the other veterans  is no one addressing this? I would think at some point people would say  simple things like "Russ- you cant complain and not run back to your guy" not to mention routine lapses on D and the love affair with the pullup.

 

 

Stringer Bell
Stringer Bell 5pts

Oh no.

 

I would rather Patty Mills.

Sustainable Parameters
Sustainable Parameters 5pts

 @Stringer Bell Spurs already signed Patty Mills

Stringer Bell
Stringer Bell 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @DennisBerry I didn't see that...

 

I'll stick to just "Oh no" then.

Sustainable Parameters
Sustainable Parameters 5pts

 @Stringer Bell I like Antonio Daniels or Mike James at the D League, classic veterans.

shiki
shiki 5pts

A decent big man who can get rebound is better than Fisher who only has so called veteran leadership

Sustainable Parameters
Sustainable Parameters 5pts

JJ Hickson (likely to be claimed by Warriors), Gilbert Arenas (Grizzlies going to sign him), Renaldo Balkman, Chris Johnson, and Ronnie Turiaf are out there.

neo12
neo12 5pts

 @DennisBerry Really hoping we make a run at Hickson, but looks like he pretty much made up his mind already.

Trackbacks

  1. Tuesday Bolts – 3.20.12 | Daily Thunder.com says:
    March 20, 2012 at 9:22 am

    [...] The Thunder are one of two teams narrowed down for Derek Fisher right now. [...]

  2. Should the Thunder sign Derek Fisher? | Daily Thunder.com says:
    March 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm

    [...] point guard heading to the playoffs. So with reports saying that Oklahoma City, along with Miami, are the top destinations for Fisher, the question is if the Thunder should extend an offer once he clears waivers on [...]

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