UPDATE: It’s official — Harden is on the roster.
With Team USA dealing with a rash of injuries, USA Basketball chairman Jerry Colangelo said he would consider re-opening the player pool for roster additions to this summer’s Olympic team.
Included as a likely addition to the preliminary roster? James Harden. Via USA Today:
Harden likely will be added, possibly as soon as today, USA TODAY Sports learned from a person with knowledge of the situation who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly.
Currently two Thunder players are on the Team USA roster (Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant). Twelve players will make the final London roster, with both Durant and Westbrook virtual locks to make that team. Team USA needs to turn in a 12-man roster and six alternates by June 18.
Along with Harden, players like Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Greg Monroe, Kyrie Irving and John Wall reportedly are being considered. Davis and Harden have emerged as the two likely frontrunners for the extra slots though. With Davis and Harden, that brings the roster to 18, which is the number Team USA needs to hit.
Getting off of work and seeing this news is the best ever
http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/05/thunder-at-mavericks-game-3-pregame-primer/
Side note: what about Bynum? He was actually healthy this year. He's a giant, a killer in the post, and the linchpin of what was a very good Laker defense. If he's healthy and willing, is there really a better option now that Dwight is hurt?
I guess my thought was that he stayed away previously because he was often hurt at the time. With a year of being healthy, things might change.
@Keith00 He wasn't healthy or good enough to be considered previously. In any case, he's recently been pretty explicit about it: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/20/sports/la-sp-lakers-fyi-20120421
@Keith00 He'd be great if he wanted to play. He needs his off-seasons to rest his 34-year-old knees.
@Keith00 He's on the record as not wanting to play for Team USA.
I'd just like to make a "slow down there" post. Guys are talking about Harden as if he's already gone, or as if he's a max contract player. Some points on that to consider:
1) Harden loves playing with Russ and KD, by all appearances. Never underestimate the fact that some people are willing to take less to play with their friends, especially if they think they've got a good thing going.
2) Harden's point of most frequent comparison is Manu Ginobili, whose contract is for $12 mill a year. Nowhere near a max player.
3) No way anyone can justify a 17 ppg, 4 apg player a max contract. He was not as comfortable playing in the starters spot, and are you gonna throw a max contract at someone coming off the bench? Probably not. (I won't say definitely, because there are more stupid GMs than smart GMs in the league).
3a) As a note on point 3), I do know he was struggling playing starter next to KD and Russ, who had their routine to open the game down. He may be different on his own team. However, I think the production to this point makes Presti's chances of retaining Harden at a less than max level higher.
I'm not saying Harden won't demand max money and bolt, or anything, but I do think that the "he's a max player" language is a little bit of an over-reaction. Just my 2 cents.
@ou_sas A Thunder player . . . bolt? Sounds like a bad headline . . .
@ThunderChick2010 Agreed. I'm just hoping that we get a tweet from James Harden over the summer stating that he's signed a contract for 4 years with us.
@TaoMaas I do remember that. That, I guess, is a subliminal part of why I think Harden might accept less.
@ou_sas I think it'll happen. Right after Russ signed his contract, I remember KD talking about upcoming contracts and saying something about those players knowing where "home" is...then he said he thought they'd be able to work it out. I assumed he was talking about Harden and Ibaka.
@ou_sas He's definitely not a max player but if he hits the market in 2013, someone is going to overpay him. Presti has a great shot to extend him this summer for 11-13 mio.
Same for Ibaka. Even DeAndre Jordan got a 11 mio deal on the market
@diddoff True. I've just been seeing a lot of "Well, now he's a max player, there goes our chances of keeping him and Ibaka both" posts over the past little bit, so I thought I'd raise a few counterpoints. I definitely think Presti can get at least one if not both locked up this summer.
@Keith00 @diddoff Yeah, I don't know. There's a couple of statistical anomalies out there, and I'd rather examine and discard or utilize rather than just ignore. The rest of what he's done suggests discarding it, but in the land of datapoints, it's unfortunately the only one we have regarding him starting.
@ou_sas @diddoff I have a feeling his struggles had more to do with his teammates than himself. KD and Russ are ball dominating scorers. In the same way Bynum/Gasol have their touches limited by Kobe, Harden hadn't developed enough chemistry (nor are there really enough touches overall) to make it work well.
Of course, we've looked darn good with Russ-Harden-KD at the end of games, so I'm not sure those early minutes where he was forced to start should hold so much weight.
@Keith00 @diddoff I don't disagree that he can't handle starter minutes, but when he started earlier in the season, he struggled. You can't deny that. With no other data points to go off, I'm only trying to raise legitimate concerns. Sure, he's playing starter minutes, but for whatever reason, coming off the bench is what's working for him. Maybe it's establishing the two man game with Collison, I don't know. Still, it's a point that might figure into negotiations.
I guess all I'm trying to do is what Presti might inevitably do when the negotiations start. Lay out some of the reasons why Harden might conceivably be convinced to take less. I'm not saying he will or won't. But if he does, then these would be why. Just trying to provide some perspective.
@ou_sas @diddoff I think he has proved he can handle starter level opponents. He plays over 30 minutes a game already, so it's not like he's only feasting on the subs.
I think he may be a max player regardless of how we view things. He could legitimately be "the man" somewhere else and still flourish. If the Pacers don't get Gordon, why wouldn't they try for Harden? Harden plus solid role players could be a very good team, especially in the East.
KD didn't take less to stay. Russ didn't take less to stay. Player NEVER take less to stay in their first big contract. I think we need to come to terms with that. Harden demanding the max isn't a slap in the face to the team, it's business. He can really want to stay and really want the max at the same time - he probably does.
@diddoff @Keith00 I actually wonder if he's better precisely because he's coming off the bench for us. He might be an all-star next year coming off the bench, yet start somewhere else and fizzle. I doubt it, but it is a possibility.
@Keith00 @diddoff This probably turns on how Harden wants to play. Is he, like he appears, a Thunder type of guy who's happy playing his role of the bench if his team is successful? Or does he fancy his chance at being "The guy?" If he wants to stay and be 6th man of the year for the next 3-4 years, as well as a perennial all-star, I think we get him for 10-13 mil. If he wants to go somewhere else and we really really want him, he's a max player. The only thing working against us is that we can't even offer him as much as others can, because of that stupid 4/5 year rule.
I will say that my opinion is that if he's looking to go elsewhere through RFA, it'll end up being a moderately crappy team, most likely. The good teams will be too tight on money to throw those max contracts at him. So he's looking at a Phoenix, or maybe a Toronto. Does he really want to be the guy that badly?
@Keith00 @ou_sas A max player without any All Star or All NBA considerations? I highly doubt that.
@diddoff ...New York insanity. That's all I can put that down to.
@diddoff @ou_sas We can afford both if we want. It is as simple as that. James IS likely a max player though. There may be two SGs in the game that are actually better, and both are outrageously expensive. Scarcity drives demand, demand drives prices. It's the same reason any 7 footer with a pulse can land a sizable contract in free agency.
Harden is incredibly good at basketball. If we didn't already have KD or Russ, there would be no question about his value at the max.
@ou_sas People overreact about rising players. Someone asked Larry Coon via twitter if Lin is a max player this summer.
Paul, Westbrook
Wade, Kobe
LeBron, Carmelo
Durant, Love
Chandler, Bosh
Those 10 should be locks barring injury. The other two spots are pretty simple. Do you want another strict point guard (Deron)? Another outstanding offensive perimeter player (Harden)? Another outstanding perimeter defender (Iggy)? Another defensive center (Nope, we're pretty much all out of those)?
I imagine K will just take three true bigs like he did in 2008 and 2010, but I'm not sure how the rule changes since 2010 will affect that. My bet would be on Deron and one of Harden/Iggy.
@Jooseppi on that 10 man roster, you're weirdly unbalanced, especially at the 3pt shooter role. I mean, your best 3pt shooters are both PFs. What? I do think a facilitator/passer/3pt threat like Harden stands a good chance of getting on in that situation.
Man, if Harden makes it, imagine KD, Russ and Harden on the floor together actually running offensive plays called by Coach K.
@ou_sas FIBA 3 is a little over a foot and a half shorter than the NBA 3, moving that shot into more comfortable range for most of that roster. That said, Andre shot 39.4 percent from 3 this season compared to 39.1 for Harden, so it's a bit of a wash just there.
@Keith00 @ou_sas Bynum said no.
@Jooseppi @ou_sas Iggy is also a career .331 shooter from deep and relatively poor mid-range player. This is a career year for him from 3, which may not be a true representation of what to expect going forward.
Harden makes more sense because we do not have a shortage of defense at SG - where Iggy has greater value. If we are taking another big, it should be Bynum, who is the best center out there without Howard.
@ou_sas @Jooseppi I expect Carmelo/Lebron to play the majority of the PF minutes. KD really doesn't play it as well as them, and those are probably the three best players we have for the international game - getting them on the court together will be a game of numbers.
@Keith00 @Jooseppi Sure, I was just commenting on the way Jooseppi had it arranged. Really, there's not really one single position player outside of Chandler.
@Keith00 @ou_sas Realistically LeBron can play the 2 as well. Or really whatever Coach K wants him to do.
noooooooooo!!!!!!!
No offense to him, but I do not see why Anthony Davis would make even the alternate team. There is a huge difference between college and international play, and I don't see how he just figures that out in a few practices and exhibitions. Davis will likely one day be a star, but Monroe makes a lot more sense in the summer. Cousins I would pass on just to avoid personality issues.
@Keith00 He won't make the team, like Oden and Durant didn't make the team, as well. He's there to practice, hang out, get to know the staff etc. They don't have the benefit of regular camps during the year to evaluate guys like they do in soccer, so they bring these guys in early and start the discussion then, sell them on the idea and keep the machine rolling.
@Keith00 Seems to me like they're thinking defense only. Davis is only there to backup Chandler. He's an unquestioned #1 pick and has a good attitude about doing the dirty work. It's not like he's the first choice there, but he's definitely more defensive minded than Cousins or Monroe.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct I don't disagree that he is more defensive minded. But being a great defender in college normally takes months to become a good defender in the NBA. I just don't see how Davis is expected to make that leap in just a handful of practices and exhibitions. Monroe being just a decent defender in the NBA is miles ahead of a college superstar.
@Keith00 @Jax Raging Bile Duct Monroe is not a good defender. He might be one day but he isn't now. Won't make the roster in any case.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct He plays for a terrible defensive team and is not a tremendous athlete. I think he is better than the numbers bear out, but I'm not trying to say he is great either.
@Keith00 I guess we'll just have to disagree there. I don't think Monroe is a good defender by any measure.
Would love to see Harden, Westbrook and Durant make the final 12 roster. Although, I'm pretty sure the price tag on James Harden would go through the roof at that point.
@shorthorns4 It hasn't already? Someone is going to offer him the max if we don't.
@Keith00 @shorthorns4 Harden is all but gone...no way he stays in the shadows of Westbrook and Durant without at least a Max Deal.....
@dollarbillrussell @kdub @Keith00 @shorthorns4 He wants TWO max deals! ;-)
@kdub @Keith00 @shorthorns4 Without at least a max deal? That's the idea of a max deal, it's the max. There's no at least about it.
Anthony Davis perhaps being the designated Christian Laettner of this dream team, I see. There's only enough room for so much facial hair on this team, that being Harden's luscious beard. I don't see how Davis and his McDonald's logo of a unibrow could possibly fit now.
@Arent Davis should be heavily considered since Dwight will not be able to play. Chandler is the only other 5 on the roster.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct @Arent Bosh is the best 5 for international play. He was easily our best big man in the last Olympics. Love can play the 5 as well, especially if Lebron/Carmelo play a lot of PF (which would make sense with so many elite SFs).
@Jax Raging Bile Duct I understand the rationale of getting him into the system early, and I encourage that idea. I just thought it was incredibly odd that the article presumed he would make a reserve spot. I'll also disagree with you on the Oden comparison. I thought Oden would continue to be injury prone, but he was far more dominating than Davis in my opinion. I don't even think Davis is a center, as he doesn't have a big enough frame to hold position. I think he'll be a Kevin Garnett-esque PF, though probably not as good as Garnett.
@Keith00 And he may not bring any value. But I think he's the best C prospect since Dwight (even better than Oden was supposed to be).
@Jax Raging Bile Duct @Keith00 More than likely, Davis is being added for the same reason as Griffin. They want him to be part of the next generation of team USA players, and are inducting him early. They might have no intention of taking him, but a summer training with Coach K and the best players in the States? Definitely jump on that.
@Keith00 It likely won't matter - USA is bringing more than enough talent to win without adding more players to the pool.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct @Skyline Think about this. Should KD have made the team the summer BEFORE his rookie year? Just looking at his early rookie numbers should tell you it's a bad idea. KD wasn't really the KD we know until year 2, and that was with constant practice and game experience.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct @Skyline I think you are severely underrating pro experience, especially with how skinny Davis is. He's going to get knocked around in the post a bit before he figures it all out. And again, even if we talk about Spain specifically, we have guys that can guard Marc - Chandler and Bosh (you should try to find some video of the last Olympics if you are worried about his defense). Pau at PF doesn't present a ton of problems because he'll also have to guard Lebron/Carmelo/Bosh/Love himself. I just don't see the value in a skinny defensive center who has never played grown men before.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct He would probably pay his own way if he knew that he would get to bang around vs the Gasol boys a few extra times.
@Skyline Yeah. If only Perk could rebound. Or catch a pass.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct @Keith00 Hello Mr. Perkins!
@Keith00 I'm not as sold on Bosh guarding Pau and Marc as you seem to be, but I can see his value. Love can rebound, but he can't stop a soul, or even slow them down. But I wouldn't call Davis a 3rd or 4th C. He'd be the 2nd C, and may get relegated to 3rd or 4th string because we're playing 4's at C. Given what his role will be, I can't think of many eligible players who would be a better option than Davis, pro experience or not.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct We are going to be a perimeter oriented team regardless, that's just where our top talent is. Bosh is a highly underrated defender. Chandler is still on board. Love, if he does play C, will clean up the glass no matter who he is facing. Do we really need a 3rd/4th C who has never played a single professional game? Davis doesn't have the opportunity of a Rubio, who was a pro at 15.
@Keith00 I know, but we're looking at Spain as our main competition - a team that features both Gasols and Ibaka in their frontcourt. You need more than KLove trying to bang with Marc Gasol.