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For us to keep Harden and Ibaka, they are going to have to sign for less what they could command as RFAs. Do you know if there are rules that prohibit endorsement deals being included in contracts to help make up that difference? Something like Chesapeake agreeing (in the contract) that they’ll pay Harden or Ibaka a certain amount to do commercials for them or something? I’ve never heard of anything like that being included in a contract, so I assume it’s not allowed, but thought I’d ask. — Tim H.
That’s a really interesting idea, but yeah, you definitely can’t do that. At least in terms of contractually agreeing to do it. But the whole corporate sponsorship thing is still the top thing that a small market like OKC lacks in comparison to other larger ones. There’s just not a ton of opportunity to make money in commercials and ad campaigns in Oklahoma City. KD has his big national deals with Gatorade, Nike, EA Sports and Panini, but other players aren’t going to find those dollars quite as easily.
And with a player as marketable as Harden (you know, with the beard and all), you’d think companies would be swooping him up for sponsorships. Maybe that’ll happen soon. And if so, that type of stuff could be incentive to take a little less when it comes to an extension.
But that’s mostly wishful thinking. Because when it comes to money, you try and get the most you can on your contract, and then you get the most you can with your sponsorships. There’s not a lot of give and take there.
I agree with you that if you have to choose between Harden and Ibaka, you choose Harden. I doubt that Harden gets anything less than $13 million a year, and I can’t see Ibaka taking less than $11 million. I was wondering what you thought of this trade for Ibaka. Ibaka for Jason Thompson of Sacramento, and two future first rounders. I think this deal makes sense from the Thunder perspective. – John K.
It’s not a horrible trade idea, in that Thompson just signed a five-year, $30 million extension with the Kings. He’s a nice rebounding power forward with good size and decent pick-and-pop ability. Which is what furthers the point that replacing Ibaka appears to be easier than replacing Harden. You can find solid size at power forward on the open market. You’re not going to find a player that literally replaces Ibaka, because you’d have to spend big to get that. I’m not saying Thompson equals Ibaka. But in terms of at least adequate production, it makes some sense.
As John pointed out in answering his own question in the email, Thompson isn’t anywhere close to equal talent value to Ibaka, but you’re looking at a cost effective player here. Not a fair talent swap.
Plus, the league is going more and more to the smallball lineups. Which means KD could eventually become a full-time 4 in the future. I think the preference would be to play Ibaka at center and just dump Perk, but that depends on the dollars lining up.
But while trade ideas are fun to toss out and something like this seems kind of reasonable, I don’t see the Thunder dealing Ibaka (or Harden). Either they get re-signed or they don’t. Grabbing a somewhat suitable replacement would be good and two first round picks would also be good. And the Thunder have some potential replacements already as part of the system in Perry Jones, Latavious Williams and Tibor Pleiss.
Go ahead though. I know you want to suggest YOUR trade idea. Here’s mine: Lazar Hayward and cash considerations for a downtown Smoothie King. Make it happen, Presti.
Looking over the Thunder roster, the only player that could really be amnestied by the team is Kendrick Perkins. I don’t see them doing that because of what he means them and any replacement player wouldn’t be much of an improvement. My question is this: can the Thunder somehow trade their amnesty clause to take advantage of it if they decide they aren’t going to use it? I think there is a clause that only players signed before 2011 can be amnestied so they can’t sign someone to a new deal and then use the tag after a season or two. They also don’t seem like the kind of team that would amnesty someone just to use it. — Greg O.
You can’t trade your amnesty provision, but that was actually something a lot of people thought would be a cool addition to the rule when it was made. Because the amnesty is basically a get-out-of-jail free card for bad contract, something the Thunder don’t expect to have many of. Potentially, it could come in extremely handy if used on Perk and the dollars work out to retain Ibaka and Harden. But we’ll see on that.
Other than Perk, the only realistic candidates to use it on would be Thabo or, gasp, Nick Collison. But it’s highly, highly unlikely that would happen to either.
Why wouldn’t the Thunder do a Dwight Howard deal? — Dan T.
It’s simple: Because the Thunder aren’t one of the teams he’d re-sign with. So if you trade key pieces to get him and he’s only in OKC for a season, that would a substantial waste. If he’d agree to an extension in OKC then you’d have to consider it, but then again, Howard has shown what kind of person he is through all this garbage and does a guy like that really fit the culture of this organization?
What channel is the game on today? — Everyone
Nickelodeon. At midnight. Check it out.
Have a question? Hit dailythunder@gmail.com.
Aaaaaaaaaaand switch threads.
http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/07/tunisia-vs-usa-open-thread/
Barry Trammel is filling in for Jim Traber and they re talking about Movies and how NBC has horrible coverage of the olympics
They probably read some of our movie stuff on here. Traber and Tremel couldn't hang with us for two minutes in a discussion of cinema. However, I was pleasantly surprised to hear Traber rave about Inglorious Basterds one time. I would guess Tremel's three favorite movies are.....
Terms of Endearment
On Golden Pond
Gran Torino
I like all three as well. I can't imagine there's a better NBA site than this one as far as movie chat goes. We need to have a Daily Thunder Oscar award show next spring.
@tydude
Just like Daily Thunder!
i wish Lebron can be part of OKC team that will be awesome maybe one day
@tydude I would never want Lebron on my team.
@MisterJohnsonOKC thats how i feel about dwight
@tydude The only time you'll see KD and Lebron playing on the same team in OKC is if Lebron comes to the West and OKC hosts the ASG that year.
@ou_sas @tydude Ah but you're forgetting the scenario in which every city except OKC suffers natural disasters, war, plague, etc, making OKC the only possible Olympic Host in four years.
Of course, the biggest if here is whether or not LeBron would be playing in the Olympics then
i know a good sports have Mascot Basketball get team USA of Rumble Clutch Hugo and different kinds of mascot
Just saw Crow talking about Miami and Howard in the last article.
I might be stupid and the only one, but if I'm Pat Riley and want to exchange a Heatle for Howard, I'm ditching Wade, not Bosh.
@dancassidy35/FreeMonroefromDET! Orlando would never do that, if that ever happened forget about any other team winning the title for a few years.
@dancassidy35/FreeMonroefromDET! i seriously doubt orlando would trade Howard straight up for wade or even taking miami's draft picks+wade
@OBoymuzik Ok I looked, do you remember which article you were talking up Festus?
@dancassidy35/FreeMonroefromDET! it's not a great trade but i thought you would appreciate festus being involved
@OBoymuzik Nvm, found it.
time for us to watch some USA Basketball
@tydude What time does our game start today? Stuck in the office, the internet is slow when it comes to streaming.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @tydude 4:15 CT. And it's not just your office, it's the entire USA that have problems with NBC's streaming.
@ThunderChick2010 @MisterJohnsonOKC @tydude My business is being helpful though. And really, it's whatever I define it to be. So I'm all good.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @tydude 4:15 Central.
@tydude Translation: Time for us to see how close to the pointspread we can get.
@ou_sas USA favorite by 55
@MisterJohnsonOKC @cemitten True, but at the time, it was deflating. Actually, tell a lie, the Big 12 title game v. K.State was deflating. Especially after that regular season. I can take losing to a better team. K. State was silly though.
@ou_sas @cemitten Yeah it sucks man, LSU game our QB played injured (No excuse, just sucks he had to be hobbled since the big 12 champ game). USC cheated and payed NFL quality players to stay and play college ball. Boise was just a better team plain and simple, I don't really understand the big deal people make out of it. OU had an inexperience QB and drama queen WR.
@ou_sas The BCS tossing UCONN into that game was the kick OU needed. Pathetic for the BCS to have to put UCONN into that game, great for OU.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @cemitten Though I've been feeling more confident again lately.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @cemitten True, I had just lost confidence in them, especially since my undergrad years at OU were LSU-USC-Boise.
@MisterJohnsonOKC i'm a fan of parts. those parts don't include owenfield.
@ou_sas @cemitten All good man, but don't buy into the bowl games hype. Once again, people seem to forget that these teams that make it to bowl games are the best teams in the nation. What's also funny is that most of the teams of people that try to jab on OU's recent bowl game reputaiton don't even make enough bowl games to have a reputation.
@cemitten Haha, I take it you don't like landthieves.com?
@ThunderChick2010 @ou_sas @cemitten I never said he was, he said that, lol. And yeah those are the same thing imo.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @cemitten Nah, I truck through the bad times as well as the good. Well, I say bad, and it's a comparative bad. I stopped watching bowl games for a while there though because I was just so pessimistic about how we'd do though. Mid 2000s were especially disheartening, especially after the USC game.
Besides, after following KC through a 2-14 season, I don't think I could be described as fair weather or bandwagon at all.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @ou_sas @cemitten
Are "fair weather fan" and "bandwagon fan" the same thing to you? Ou_sas is definitely not a fair weather fan.
@ou_sas @cemitten Are you a fan of OU when we win, and all of a sudden aren't when we lose? If you are an OU fan through thick and thin you aren't a bandwagon fan. :).
@OBoymuzik @cemitten Oh please believe there are 12 year bandwagon fans. Hell a few of the people I work with are OU fans win we are winning. But when we lose, all of a sudden they aren't.
@cemitten lol, kinda. Though that was more in 1995, when I first moved and started watching the KC Chiefs. "WHY ARE YOU PICKING IT UP WITH YOUR HANDS. AND WHY ARE YOU USING PADS? THIS ISN'T RUGBY?"
@ou_sas "YOUR FOOTBALL ISN"T PLAYED WITH FEET"
~Newly From England OU_SAS
@MisterJohnsonOKC @cemitten Then I suppose I'm a bandwagon fan, since I didn't follow College Football at all until getting to OU in 2003. I've kind of picked up on some of the history of the university though. :)
@MisterJohnsonOKC if you aren't already on landthieves, you should be.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @cemitten i don't disagree..but its funny that they would still be considered bandwagon fans after 12 years
@cemitten Maybe some of these bandwagon fans that became OU fans after the '00 chip think like that. Real OU fans know that these are grown ass men playing this game and they don't want to lose just like OU doesn't. :).
@MisterJohnsonOKC @Jax Raging Bile Duct Still, I've seen OU cover some of the 30+ pointspreads.
@MisterJohnsonOKC "HANG HALF A HUNDRED ON THEM" you're right OU and it's fans haven't historically thought that way. ;)
@Jax Raging Bile Duct They influence them heavily.
@MisterJohnsonOKC But the media doesn't set the point spreads.
@ou_sas @tydude Thing about that is OU fans never expect anything like that. It's always the media that builds us up to unrealistic expectations so that they can tear us down. /rant.
@tydude Yeah, I know. It's probably an OU thing, but I want to see if we can cover an absurd pointspread like that.
Just trade Harden / Ibaka for Monroe and pieces and call it a day.
@MisterJohnsonOKC MONROE, YES.
@MisterJohnsonOKC Better be damn good pieces
@dancassidy35/FreeMonroefromDET! did you see my scenario earlier today? may or may not have included festus
@OBoymuzik Dammit, I'll be back then
@dancassidy35/FreeMonroefromDET! Oh of course, some Thunder fans overrate Ibaka / Harden so much. Neither are anything close to max players and the OKC organization shouldn't bend over backwards to keep them.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @justin_mia @OBoymuzik @ou_sas Actually it very much is. Monroe has a career drtg of 106, peaking at 109 his first year. Serge's highest was 104, with a 98 last year. 98 is very good. Perkins is more of a mixed bag career wise because his style of D gets better the better defenders he has around him which he had in Boston. Even still, his average is 102. Monroe beats them in +/- because his offense is better but on our team he's still a 3rd option and his numbers would wilt.
And I'm sorry but saying Serge ONLY blocks shots is a flat out lie and shows a lack of real appreciation for his skill set
@MisterJohnsonOKC @FREE_COLE @justin_mia @ou_sas what was our record in close games?
We were third in the NBA in points per game in the fourth quarter.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @justin_mia @OBoymuzik @ou_sas That's not personnel based, that's system based. Big man doesn't change that if we can't get him the ball, which is again system based
@FREE_COLE @justin_mia @OBoymuzik @ou_sas His defense is any worse than Serge or Perk's defense. Serge blocks shots and does nothing else on D. Perk is a great post defender and nothing else.
@FREE_COLE @justin_mia @OBoymuzik @ou_sas We don't get shots at the rim when it matters. We had scoring droughts last 3-8 minutes because all we did was jack up shots.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @justin_mia @OBoymuzik @ou_sas Also if you want Monroe but complain about Harden's defense, you need to watch more Monroe. His defense is infinitely worse than Harden's given the importance of big man D
@justin_mia @OBoymuzik @ou_sas Do you have any numbers in our late game offensive production when the opposing D tightens up? We literally just shoot contested jump shots. That kind of play isn't going to get us a championship, we have to get easier buckets. This can be done by better ball movement or a big man that knows how to score. I do agree that our defense is terrible for a contender.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @justin_mia @OBoymuzik @ou_sas Long range jumpers isn't our only offense....we get plenty of shots at the rim. Just cause we don't have a big man doesn't mean we don't get shots there. Come on now
@MisterJohnsonOKC @OBoymuzik @ou_sas Yes I am sure about that. We had the best offense in the playoffs but our defense in the playoffs was well below league average. Defense and (to a lessor extent) rebounding were the big issues, not offense. Even against Miami our ORTG game to game: 120, 111, 101, 111, 110. Only one poor offensive showing out of five games. DEFENSE was the issue.
@justin_mia @OBoymuzik @ou_sas Are you sure about that? Our offense turns into crap when our long range jumpers stop falling. And that happens quite a bit. What would help this team is sharing the ball and better coaching. That way, we wouldn't need a big man.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @OBoymuzik @ou_sas We don't need a scoring big man period. Our offense is fine.
@justin_mia @ou_sas That's why I get pissed off about our "defensive" big men. They are supposed to be defensive monsters yet they get carved up every game and suck on offense. I agree that we'd have to get a damn good big in return for Harden / Ibaka.
@OBoymuzik @ou_sas @justin_mia Very true, if KD gets a reliable post game we don't need a scoring big man. However, as of right now KD still gets pushed out of his spot way too easily. Not that he can really help it because of his small frame.
@cemitten I'd be OK with it because our current "defensive" big men don't play all that good defense. Also, people forget that an "ok" big man at scoring would look elite with Westbrook / KD on the wing.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @ou_sas The odds of a big man we trade for being better for our offense than Harden himself is (much less Harden + Ibaka) is very small. Andrew Bynum is the only possibility. Harden was one of the best offensive players in the league and we had one of the best offenses. If you're going to trade Harden and/or Ibaka for another big it has to be a big upgrade for the defense, not offense.
@cemitten @MisterJohnsonOKC I love Monroe but yeah, this is so true
@MisterJohnsonOKC Are you really ok with trading "Harden doesn't play any defense whatsoever" for Monroe who possibly plays less defense?
@MisterJohnsonOKC @ou_sas @justin_mia i don't see why everyone says we need a big man that can score...how about KD continue to grow in the post, Russ and James get better at attacking(and Russ gets respect from refs) and we call it good
@ou_sas @justin_mia Oh Ok, we need a big man that can catch a basketball and put it in the hoop. That's it, if he can also rebound and play some good defense that's all extra toppings to me.
@MisterJohnsonOKC I would agree if this league were a league where players are paid on their performance, but it isn't. This is a league that pays players on supply and demand. The only players you can pay according to their performance, AND also retain, are players like Royal Ivey and Bryon Mullens and Hasheem Thabeet.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @justin_mia Yeah, I'm wondering if you're looking for both 4s and 5s, just 5s, what skill sets you're looking to use to complement KD/Russ.
@ou_sas @justin_mia Bigs?
@MisterJohnsonOKC @justin_mia What's your shopping list as far as that goes?
@justin_mia @dancassidy35/FreeMonroefromDET! I'm not saying harden isn't good. I'm saying that I don't believe it is in OKC's best interest to pay him max when we have KD / Westbrook on our team. I think we'd be better off looking to trade both for a good big.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct I don't have exact numbers, and I know that some team is dumb enough to offer both of them max. I do know that I wouldn't pay serge any more than 9 mil per until he learns how to catch a basketball.
@MisterJohnsonOKC You said they aren't close to max players, so I just wondered what you would pay them.
I wouldn't struggle paying Harden the max or close to it. I'd hate to have to pay Serge the max though.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @dancassidy35/FreeMonroefromDET! OKC offense with Harden on the court: 115 points per 100 possessions. OKC offense with Harden off the court 102 points per 100 possessions. Harden swings our offense from dreadful in the playoffs to the best in the playoffs. Even max players have holes and Harden must learn to defend better, but there's no question that the team relied on him offensively both in the regular season and postseason.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct Not max like other GMs are going to throw at them.
@dancassidy35/FreeMonroefromDET! Harden doesn't play any defense whatsoever and completely disappears on the road. Ibaka has no offensive game outside of a wide open jumpshot and is also a horrible defender. They are good players but people don't realize the reason they look as good as they do is because they have KD / RW playing around them. In Harden's case he's usually playing against team's 2nd unit.
@MisterJohnsonOKC What would you pay them?
@MisterJohnsonOKC I agree with Ibaka not being near max. Harden I disagree with. I think you are also underrating them both.