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Does a James Harden trade make sense?

by Royce Young on August 21, 2012 at 3:07 pm 417 Comments

Cameron Browne/NBAE/Getty Images

Know this: Until the Thunder ink James Harden to an extension, the discussion around him and his future with the team isn’t going to go away. Really, it’ll only escalate. Maybe Oklahoma City has a plan that involves waiting until the market determines his value next summer. Maybe Sam Presti has been drafting an extension while laying on a beach somewhere in Hawaii on his honeymoon. Or maybe there’s another plan.

Whatever it is, the Thunder sit in a fine position. They hold the upper hand having already locked up a core of Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka for the long-term. Regardless of what the future holds for Harden, the Thunder are going to be good and very competitive, at least for the next five years or so.

Plus, the Thunder have plenty of options. As I’ve been trying to maintain for a while, the idea of the Thunder not possessing the capability to pay the luxury tax isn’t accurate. Because it’s obviously in play. Yes, there are challenges to playing in one of the league tiniest markets. But it’s not like Clay Bennett and his ownership group is shy about spending. He paid Durant. He paid Westbrook. He paid Ibaka. He paid Kendrick Perkins, Thabo Sefolosha and Nick Collison. He overpaid to rent Derek Fisher for a few months. He spent big on just moving the team from Seattle. This isn’t some penny-pinching ownership group. They’re extremely committed to winning and they know the landscape of the NBA. You have to spend to win, and thus far, they’ve done it.

There’s also the option of using the amnesty clause on Perk to shave off some of the payroll and cut down on the tax bill. It would get the Thunder under the threshold or darn close to it, meaning they could avoid it altogether while retaining Harden, Ibaka, Durant and Westbrook. Yes, you’d have those four players. But you’d also have some $60 million or so committed to them alone.

There’s the less fun option of not signing Harden now or next summer and letting him walk while trying to find a replacement for him on the open market. (Not a fan of this one.)

But there’s also this one as Zach Lowe of SI.com analyzed today: Trade Harden.

But there’s an argument to be made that Harden’s skills overlap closely enough with those of Durant and Westbrook to make a trade for the right sort of package, even in the short-term. Step back, and you can see that package taking form: Some cheaper shooting, with perhaps a dash of ball-handling creativity, and multiple high draft picks. Forget the future for a second: Is it possible the Thunder might be able to maintain their current status as (at least) Western Conference co-favorites in 2012-13 if they got that kind of package?  What if Eric Maynor, forgotten after a season-ending knee injury, emerges by the trade deadline as the league’s best back-up point guard — a player with the combination of shooting and pick-and-roll creativity required to fill Harden’s role as the second-unit quarterback? And what if Perry Jones, the Thunder’s first-round draft pick, comes into his own as a second-unit force?

Kind of an ugly scenario, no? The thought of trading that glorious beard away is a pretty unhappy thought. But as Lowe points out, it does make a reasonable amount of sense, if — IF – the Thunder aren’t interested in paying up to keep the current core together.

A couple ideas that Lowe has:

  • Trade Harden to the Magic for J.J. Redick and three first rounders. As a big fan of Redick, I don’t hate it. I mean, I hate it of course, but I don’t hate it. You know?
  • Trade Harden to Houston for Kevin Martin and his expiring deal and picks, including Toronto’s likely lottery pick. Or instead of Martin, get the picks with a young player or two (Jeremy Lamb, Chandler Parsons, Royce White).
  • Picks from Milwaukee for Mike Dunleavy Jr. and a young player (Doron Lamb, Tobias Harris).
  • Send Harden to Cleveland for something like Anderson Varejao, Tristan Thompson or Dion Waiters.
  • Lou Williams and multiple first-round picks from the Hawks.

All make some sense and could be rationalized. Again, if the Thunder decide keeping Harden isn’t possible. But then again, there were possibly more lucrative offers on the table before the draft involving players like Bradley Beal or the No. 2 overall pick and those were essentially laughed off by Oklahoma City. So if they weren’t dealing then, why would they now? Especially at the deadline where you’re talking about upsetting a very real chemistry the Thunder have and trying to insert a completely foreign piece into the fold on the fly.

Dealing Harden would make the fanbase extremely angry, and not just because he’s a fan favorite. It would be more about what the deal would signify. Any allusions to the Thunder being a legit contender in the NBA’s big boy market would be gone. It would be painfully obvious that OKC wasn’t on a level playing field. While teams like the Lakers, Nets and Heat stockpile stars and laugh off any tax implications, the Thunder would be trading away a 23-year-old star that was just included on the U.S. Olympic team, won Sixth Man of the Year and hasn’t scratched the surface of his potential.

How do you rationalize that one without simply saying, “Yep, we’re too small time to keep him.” That might be a harsh reality that Thunder fans have to accept, but it certainly wouldn’t go over that well. And it surely wouldn’t sit that well with Durant, who is best buds with Harden or Westbrook, who has tunnel vision on winning and winning only.

But again, this is all operating under this misguided notion that the Thunder can’t and won’t consider paying up to keep their team. All indications point to exactly that happening with the organization crossing the luxury tax bridge when that time comes by either amnestying Perk, making a move to unload salary or just biting the bullet and paying up. Abandoning ship and making a rash play on the trade market doesn’t strike me as a very Thunder-like move at all.

Because consider this: If the Thunder don’t keep Harden, the 2012-13 season is probably their best chance ever to win a title. While a deal getting Kevin Martin and picks or J.J. Redick and picks might benefit the team down the road, it will only hurt their current title chances. And after coming so painfully close to glory last season, you really think they’re going to take that kind of step back? If anything, it would be about one last run at it next season and then trying to recover in 2013-13 if Harden signed elsewhere.

I have a feeling all of this talk is going to look really silly when Harden inks an extension in the coming weeks. But until that happens, it’s an unavoidable discussion.

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Lambchop
Lambchop 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Love Harden, but if Dealt, I like a package including Doron Lamb

Adub
Adub 5pts

 @K-Dagger Plainview I am down with if you mean Houston's Jeremy Lamb

 

Lambchop
Lambchop 5pts

 @Adub Haha, yes.  ALthough Doron was on my radar down at the 23rd pick

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

I think a lot of this is overstated.  The revenue of the NBA is increasing every year and I will be very surprised if the Tax Line doesn't increase to over 75 million and maybe even 80 million very soon.  Harden is going to sign an extension and play here for a long time.

Jmb4119
Jmb4119 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Harden, Perkins, Dequan Cook for Tyson Chandler, Iman Shumpert, & Steve Novak. Starting 5 of Westbrook-Shumpert-KD-Serge-Chandler is an incredible starting 5. Think about how great that lineup could be on the defensive end. It's also Laker kryptonite. Ibaka Chandler and Shumpert are also the only realistic hope of slowing Lebron down.

 EatSleepThunder
EatSleepThunder 5pts

 @Jmb4119 That's actually a really interesting trade idea, although Shumpert is coming of an acl injury, and honestly, I don't think we really need Novak. I think he's over payed just based on one season. If the knicks accept that trade (which I don't know if they will, a few draft picks would help) and everyone is healthy, that would be a beast defensive team.

Jmb4119
Jmb4119 5pts

@EatSleepThunder I thought of the trade with the assumption that Shumpert comes back healthy. The reason I included a Novak Cook swap is because I thought Novak would represent an upgrade over cook - clearly an add on for that trade. If the Knicks get off to a poor start, and Raymond Felton looks like he did last year, this trade is certainly feasible. With the Knicks, anything is possible. I think we would have the most well rounded starting 5 in the NBA if this trade happened.

 EatSleepThunder
EatSleepThunder 5pts

http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/08/wednesday-bolts-8-22-12/

okcjim
okcjim 5pts

How come all these NBA players have to go to Germany to get these treatments on their knees?  Can we not figure out what they're doing and start doing it here? 

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts

 @okcjim I think I heard of some American doctor trying to figure it out, but it's probably a case of the best guy is over there, and all of these guys can afford to fly over and get the treatment. It's why everybody goes to the same doctor in Alabama for their ACL surgeries, it seems.

Amuro
Amuro 5pts

 @okcjim Probably not approved by the FDA yet.

OkcBaby
OkcBaby 5pts

@okcjim Losing a war has its benefits

SoonerSpens
SoonerSpens 5pts

 @okcjim Must be that whack American health insurance.

lanktj
lanktj 5pts

OKC could not have selected a better ownership group. We are very fortunate to have them. This group of owners should make some money, but, they appear to be willing to minimize their small profit margins to keep a competitive team. The fans also deserve a great deal of praise for supporting this team with buying tickets and merchandise. I hoope that when the team asks for a slight increase in ticket prices we will not revolt. We have a great team, great ownership that both give back to the community and do and will deserve our

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/22/kevin-durant-says-its-now-time-to-rest-focus-on-thunder/

 

KD says: "Time to go back to work."

Barry Amenema
Barry Amenema 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

Royce:  Hey, DT! Come look at this hornets nest.

DT: OK

Royce: [shakes nest....runs away]

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Barry Amenema 

Speaking of hornet's nests . . . did y'all read Jenni's article this morning implying that yawn-town-OKC might be JUST what Harden needs to "save" him from his wild self?

Barry Amenema
Barry Amenema 5pts

 @ThunderChick2010 Can anybody confirm whether or not James was with Prince Harry in Vegas this last weekend?

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @ThunderChick2010  @Barry Amenema Jenni's worse than Trammel. You'll lose brain cells reading her stuff.

Grolgar
Grolgar 5pts

 @ou_sas

 Trammel is a good writer.

duhsweetness
duhsweetness 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ThunderChick2010  @Barry Amenema 23 year old millionaire enjoying himself: WILD CHILD

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Barry Amenema Hush, you, we're having fun with our hornets nest. We're like bears. Immune to the stings, ready to get at that delicious, delicious honey.

Barry Amenema
Barry Amenema 5pts

 @ou_sas ummm....you might want to look in the mirror...

http://bee-stings.net/bee_sting_allergic_reaction2.jpg

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts

 @Barry Amenema ouch. :(

Vin
Vin 5pts

Harden is very good player, but is a sixth man worth $15/year, moving into luxury tax territory and severely handicapping Presti's ability to add complementary pieces and round out a championship roster?

 

As great as James Harden is, I bet the Thunder could land Tyreke Evans, a similar player who'd probably re-sign for less, along with a skilled backup big man like Jason Thompson who'd help the team battle the Lakers' front court. Plus, a player like Thompson would be able to replace Perkins if he ever gets amnestied. (Perkins' contract is the only bloated one on the roster, but OKC will need him against Dwight Howard.)

 

If Tyreke Evans were in OKC, playing the same role as James Harden, with Durant and Westbrook keeping him in line, I bet you that Tyreke could win the Sixth Man of the Year award, too. After all, he was Rookie of the Year three years ago. He's got the talent. Only, given his diminshed market value, Tyreke would probably cost the Thunder $12-15 million less.

MostJadedGamer
MostJadedGamer 5pts

 @Vin

 First of all Harden had better be starting this year. Second of all we cann't afford to give him the max. 4 years 50 millon is the max WE can afford to give Harden. If he won't accept that we will just have to trade him before the trae deadlne tis year.

shiki
shiki 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Vin Tyreke Evans cannot score outside of paint area.He knew this but never tried to improve his shooting.he is much worse than Harden.

El Prez
El Prez 5pts

Tyreke Evans does little for me. He's been mired in that losing culture with the Kings, plus I'm not at all sure about his overall basketball IQ. I'm not even going to give you his TSN rating because these first two issues trump TSN...and for me to diminish TSN says something in itself regarding a player. Tyreke Evans...pass.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Vin Tyreke Evans is similar to James Harden?  Really?   

OkcBaby
OkcBaby 5pts

 @Vin No Brooks contract is bloated 2

Tequila or Failure
Tequila or Failure 5pts

@Vin Evans can't shoot worth a damn plus he's primarily a 3 which kd man's for us quite capably. I was fully on board w/trading Harden for the draft pick that yielded Beal on a cheap rookie deal but none of the mentioned deals inspire much enthsiasm from me.

tygablood
tygablood 5pts

 @Tequila or Failure  @Vin Tyreke Evans is not primarily a 3, but whatever. Dude would provide creative scoring off the bench, and also has the prerequisites of a mean eurostep and long ass arms.

BeaTestman
BeaTestman moderator 5pts

test posting a comment @Tue Aug 21 21:09:20 2012

BeaTestman
BeaTestman moderator 5pts

test posting a comment @Tue Aug 21 21:05:40 2012

okcisbad
okcisbad 5pts

As a Lakers fan, I know if Harden gets traded away, there is no way the Thunder will get past the lake show. Whenever trading away a star, you never win the deal as shown by the Dwight, Shaq, Gasol, Garnett, etc deals. I can't envision a scenario where the Thunder get better by trading Harden away.

MostJadedGamer
MostJadedGamer 5pts

 @okcisbad

 Thats totally false. Denver got better after trading Carmelo.

OkcBaby
OkcBaby 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @okcisbad True Story Our bench wasnt that good last year

OkcBaby
OkcBaby 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @okcisbad And we still made it to the finals.  Sorry Laker fans even that imposter you gave us didnt hurt bad enough because won the West:)

OBoy
OBoy 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @okcisbad decided not to argue with you

This comment has been deleted

okcisbad
okcisbad 5pts

 @OBoymuzik Ok, but your missing the point. I'm saying that the Thunder won't be a better team without Harden. I know they still have KD and Westbrook, but they wont have Harden which means they wont be as good.

OBoy
OBoy 5pts

 @okcisbad i'm arguing with your point of "there is no way the thunder will get past the lake show" because nobody on earth has seen how the 2012-2013 lakers will play together on the court, how long it will take them to adjust, if dwights healthy, if kobe really will fall back

 

and nba 2k12 doesn't count

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

My final contribution of the night is to say that the TSN or the jumbled SNOT rating of Roxy Music is pretty darn low and their consistency was really weak except in 1982.

courtsense
courtsense 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Crow Avalon...

Old Man Game
Old Man Game 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Crow I want to like this but I must confess to not having a clue what it refers to. 

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOnde5c7OG8

 

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ou_sas  @ThunderChick2010 it was just a random comment based on what i went looking for on the internet to listen to based on their better songs.  i probably should not have gotten that yappy. but i was semi-curious how many folks knew of this band who were really pretty big for awhile.

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ThunderChick2010 I forgot how much their lead singer had a face for radio. Thanks for the reminder :P

Watson
Watson 5pts

Harden for Lou Williams, John Jenkins, and swap draft picks?

TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard
TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard 5pts

 @Watson Harden for Lou Williams, John Jenkins, and 2-3 first rounders. 

Watson
Watson 5pts

 @JimboSliceWe could even think about having some $$$ exceptions thrown in if we only like one or two of the draft picks.

Trackbacks

  1. Luxury tax history and how it applies to the Thunder | Daily Thunder.com says:
    August 22, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    [...] It could be for only a season, maybe two. With options with Kendrick Perkins and the amnesty clause or other moves, OKC could dive right back under the tax line if necessary. And then when Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka [...]

  2. Sunday Bolts – Bye-bye Beard Edition | Daily Thunder.com says:
    October 28, 2012 at 10:35 am

    [...] I ended up being way wrong, but here’s what I wrote in August about the idea of trading Harden: “Because consider this: If the Thunder don’t keep Harden, the 2012-13 season is probably their best chance ever to win a title. While a deal getting Kevin Martin and picks or J.J. Redick and picks might benefit the team down the road, it will only hurt their current title chances. And after coming so painfully close to glory last season, you really think they’re going to take that kind of step back? If anything, it would be about one last run at it next season and then trying to recover in 2013-13 if Harden signed elsewhere.” [...]

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