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DT Mailbag: Beardemic

by Royce Young on September 20, 2012 at 12:00 pm 492 Comments

Garrett Ellwood/NBAE/Getty Images

We get it. The Thunder have a big decision about James Harden ahead and it’s something that’s completely hanging over the start of the season. But isn’t there more to talk about? — Royce Y.

I agree Royce Y. That said, the only emails I’ve received the past two weeks had something to do with Harden. It’s OKC’s mini version of Melodrama or Dwightmare. Fear the Free Agency? Beardemic? Hardend-of-days? (OK, that was terrible.) There might not be a catchy name for it, but the longer it drags on, the more of a distraction it becomes. It’s just unavoidable.

Once training camp starts and Oct. 31 comes and goes, eventually the questions will kind of subside. At least until the trade deadline where there will be chatter. If Harden is unsigned by the Oct. 31 deadline, opposing GMs will be calling with offers. The Thunder very well may view this season as a last hurrah with the current core with a reevaluation to come next summer. I get the feeling the Thunder know exactly what they’re doing with this situation. What that is or whether or not it makes everyone happy is still unknown.

Which is why we can’t really stop talking about it. So here are a few Harden emails…

I’ve written in a number of times, and again, I’m a reader from Dallas, TX. The reason that is worth saying is this: I think the best comparison to James Harden has to be former Maverick Michael Finley. If you take a look at his numbers, there are very stark similarities. Sure, Harden is the better distributor, but I think Finley had the better mid-range game. Other than that, in terms of athleticism, driving to the basket, hitting the 3-point shot, size at shooting guard–these guys have a lot in common.

Which is exactly why I’d have to say it is a terrible idea to throw a max deal at Harden. Finley got one too, except by the end of his 3rd season playing alongside Dirk and Nash he fell to third-best player on the team (ironic that Harden is starting off as the 3rd best, but looking to get #1 player cash?). If he’s already undoubtedly the 3rd-best player on a championship team (except to those who still hate and minimize Russell), I can’t find a reason for them to throw the same amount of cash at him that they would Durant.

Harden, like Finley, has a number of skills that make him an ideal 3rd-best/6th man. His spot-up shooting, ability to handle and drive, and overall feel for the game are excellent. But he is not going to go to any other team–not Charlotte, Phoenix, Toronto, anybody–and even with the “green light” average more than 22-6-6. Yup, Finley numbers. And those numbers were enough to get the Mavs in the playoffs, but when it came time for their championship aspirations, his role was reduced dramatically.

Bottom line, I love Harden, but I was ecstatic that Presti stayed with Ibaka. Championship teams have championship-level post defense, and that’s what he brings. Harden’s versatility and scoring are another crucial piece to a championship team, but it’s just as crucial that they avoid overpaying him. If he wants to be traded they’ll get great value for him, but hopefully he will see that his best chance to get paid and win championships will be remaining with the Thunder. — Clifton J.

Interesting comparison, but Finley was much more of a spot-up shooter and scorer than Harden. He wasn’t really a pick-and-roll creator or primary ball-handler like Harden. Unlike the Thunder, the Mavs were never in the Finals with that Finley-Dirk-Nash core. So clearly, OKC’s setup is working.

But you’re looking at the money all wrong. Just because you give a guy the max doesn’t mean that defines his role or where he sits in the star pecking order. Because the limitations of the max deals don’t allow a free market to decide a player’s true value. Kevin Durant is worth far more than the deal he got. Russell Westbrook probably is too. A max deal isn’t a real reflection of a player’s value. It’s just the percentage of your cap you’re willing to commit to that guy. The system puts a price ceiling on players, limiting the amount teams can pay. Which means players like Brook Lopez, Eric Gordon and Roy Hibbert are suddenly worth the same amount of money guys like Durant and Westbrook are. The system artificially determines player value.

And to someone, Harden will be worth that max percentage. Teams that have the cash to spend will absolutely throw it at Harden. The question is, is he worth that to the Thunder? Does his production and on-court value and contributions to winning warrant the money and percentage of cap space OKC would give him? I think yes. If the point is to win championships, the Thunder have a much better chance to do that with James Harden than they would without him.

I just wanted to give my quick opinion on this whole contract process. I believe that it wasn’t a coincidence that Serge Ibaka got his deal done before James Harden. To me, they could have just as easily gotten Harden first and then weighed the whole Ibaka situation. I believe they felt that Ibaka’s skill set was one that they needed desperately. If we just had three scorers but no elite defender, we would be no different than a Golden State. I believe they looked at his defensively abilities and high ceiling as an offensive player and though it was too good to pass up.

Obviously, I hope James Harden comes back to the Thunder for years to come, but it will have to be on the Thunder’s terms. We obviously know that he wants to be here but the money has to be right. The good news is that much can happen from now until October 31st and even now until July of 2013. But Presti is going to make calculated decisions that support the team long term. I really hope the Beard is here for 5 more years but if not lets just enjoy his final season in OKC and go for it all! Have a great day! — Rafael R.

See, I’ve always seen it the opposite. I’ve always seen Harden as the more valuable piece. Harden seems like the glue that binds Westbrook and Durant into a cohesive scoring duo. Without Harden balancing them, Westbrook and Durant might dissolve into a take-turns-you-then-me scoring tandem that doesn’t really work well in concert. Harden’s the pressure release, a perfect outlet to relieve the scoring tension.

Then again, a Westbrook-Durant-Ibaka trio mirrors exactly the core the Heat just used to win an NBA title. And if Ibaka continues his upward climb as an offensive force, the Thunder might be able to recover that auxiliary scoring Harden provided via Ibaka. It’s not crazy to look at the structure of the Thunder roster and see too much talent. OK, that definitely sounds crazy, but the better these guys get, the more they develop their own games, the more they improve, the less the Thunder might need each player’s individual skills. There’s only 48 minutes in a game and only so many shots to go around. Roles have to be defined, places understood. And if OKC has four scoring studs, that type of thing could get a little cloudy.

That said, screw all that noise and just re-sign Harden.

I think the Thunder has a one year window remaining with their current core, and they will leave it unchanged all year, basically giving them one more chance to win it all together…and then I predict they will end up doing a sign-and-trade of Harden for the draft rights to Shabazz Mohammad, considered the best 2 guard prospect in a few years and a likely top 3 pick in the 2013 draft. He’s not better than Harden, but he has the potential to be as good, and he’d be on that money-saving rookie contract so the Thunder would avoid the lux tax, have money to re-sign Maynor, and continue building for the future.

The Bobcats will likely be bad enough to be drafting in the bottom 3 again next year, and they have two other No 1s via trade…I could see the Thunder sign-and-trading Harden to Charlotte for the No. 2 overall pick and a mid-first rounder, and then drafting Shabazz. In this scenario Charlotte signs Harden to a max deal, and the Thunder get a $10M trade exception to help facilitate future deals.

Another option would be trying to facilitate a sign-and-trade to get a pick that projects to be at the top of the loaded 2014 draft (current high school seniors), which projects to have some great wing talent. The long-term hole, assuming Harden is unaffordable in my scenario, is acquiring a great two-guard, or even another hyper athletic small forward who complements Durant. The offer for Kidd-Gilchrist wasn’t the right one, but the six guys at top of this list? One of them might be a year from now, the kind of return you’d want in a Harden sign-and-trade. — Jacob J.

It’s definitely one of many options the Thunder will have. The scenarios are plenty, with some sounding very good in theory. That’s certainly one that seems like it’s a great backup plan. And if the Thunder win an NBA title this season, then it opens a whole lot of doors to Sam Presti because the fanbase will be far more forgiving of any decision. Once you put that trophy in your pocket, then there’s a lot more freedom and flexibility.

If that doesn’t happen and OKC makes the move? Then it’s either a) the Thunder giving up on their current core and plan because of money issues or b) a change in direction because it’s been determined the current core isn’t built to get over the hump and win.

The Thunder had the opportunity to do this with Bradley Beal this season. But it made little sense because they’re still a contending team and have Harden under contract for this season. Harden’s value really won’t change (in terms of contract value) because he’s getting paid next summer regardless. So for the Thunder to deal him now rather than a year from now wouldn’t be wise.

The question is, would a team jump for that sort of deal? Would a team trade the chance to be drafting The Next Big Thing for an established NBA scorer on a max contract extension? I’m not sure.

Let’s just all hope all this talk and conjecture looks really silly in a few weeks because Harden signs his four-year, $52 million extension with the Thunder.

Have a question or thought? Send it to dailythunder@gmail.com.

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dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/09/friday-bolts-9-21-12/

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts

Just to verify, bbcode and html are disabled in livefyre, right?

dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts

@ou_sas i was going back to the regular season, that's all.

dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts

Why do people keep saying heat big three is the best? When our big three average more points than their big three?...well let me tell you, hypocrisy and favoritism is such a thing.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @dynamicduo Because assuming Wade is healthy, they are....

dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts

@dancassidy35/FreeFezzyFel from GSW!!! Atleast you're not bias like some laker fan i see on here

OkcBaby
OkcBaby 5pts

 @dynamicduo Id pay to see a 3 on 3 game

dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts

@OkcBaby thunder all day

OkcBaby
OkcBaby 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dynamicduo They did pretty much beat us out right in the finals

dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts

@OkcBaby yes but on a ppg basis was what i mean

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @dynamicduo Um... perhaps because they've been to two straight finals and won 1? Because their big three has the best player in the NBA right now? Because they want to spite Skip Bayless (and really, who doesn't?)? Who knows, but hypocrisy is not the explanation that you're looking for.

SoonerSpens
SoonerSpens 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ou_sas  @dynamicduo Well, even with harden's disappearance in the finals, our big three still had similar combined stats to theirs in the finals. It was all those damn role players coming out of the woodwork and raining threes on us that did us in. 

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @SoonerSpens   You're right.  Lebron/Wade vs KD/Russ was a wash.  Battier/Chalmers vs Harden/Ibaka was a blow-out.

dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@SoonerSpens @ou_sas like i said , i should have been more specific. what i ment was during the regular season

SoonerSpens
SoonerSpens 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ou_sas  @dynamicduo Can't argue any of that!

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @SoonerSpens  @dynamicduo Sure. He asked why most people ranked Miami's big three as better than ours, not which was better. I was addressing the perception with the two reasons most people will use to make their judgments, predominantly. Winning a title, and having the best player. Most people - even if they're basketball writers - don't look beyond that.

dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts

@ou_sas i knw about the championship so maybe i should've been more specific. because in the regular season our big three average more ppg...durant the leading scorer, harden the best of the bench and westbrook was fifth in scoring while wade was sixth

dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts

@ou_sas agree but you know what? I think they had such a easy road to the finals compare to us its not even funny...didn't have to play the best in the east at that time because of rose injury, then a banged up celtics took them to seven games with a plethora of injuries. we? The last three nba champs from the west we had to go thru...guarantee you...next time we'll kick their behinds

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dynamicduo  @ou_sas During the regular season though, there were genuine discussions as to which of the two was better, looking at ppg. The reason a lot of people gave Miami the edge, even after comparing the two, was one of the two reasons I posted. That said, there were some who favored the Thunder's big 3 in the regular season over Miami's.

 

Going forward, though, until the Thunder win a title, people will generally defer to Miami as the big 3 to beat. It's a king of the hill landscape in the NBA right now, and they're on top of the hill.

All Sham No Wow
All Sham No Wow 5pts

Does anyone think we will sign Harden? I just couldn't really see him on another team because we let him go in free agency.

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts

 @All Sham No Wow Replied to you already in the previous thread.

All Sham No Wow
All Sham No Wow 5pts

Well ya I was just asking

This comment has been deleted

All Sham No Wow
All Sham No Wow 5pts

 @MisterJohnsonOKC Yes whats your point?

 

dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts

I think everyone would want to see john hollinger scouting report on us...well here goes http://www.thundergazette.com/2012/09/20/okc-thunder-2012-13-roster-scouting-report/

dynamictrio
dynamictrio 5pts

GREETINGS TO ALL THUNDER FAITHFULL. This team has improve significantly since it's arriving in oklahoma. from 1st round to conference finals to nba finals. i think its safe to say we are the nba champs for 2013 as you can see on my avatar (very optimistic) in my opinion.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

So wait, Oboyz Old Man is actually his dad?? Wow, missed that completely

 EatSleepThunder
EatSleepThunder 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @dancassidy35/FreeFezzyFel from GSW!!! I didn't realize that the screen name actually meant Oboy's Old Man... I just thought it was some random screen name. When I figured it out I felt rally stupid...

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @EatSleepThunder  @dancassidy35/FreeFezzyFel from GSW!!!

 I'm pondering changing mine to CleandoezMom.

OkcBaby
OkcBaby 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

I can see we still on that haterade:). Some people will just never learn.

Aren't
Aren't 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

The Boise State-BYU game was the worst college football game I've ever seen in my entire life.

MostJadedGamer
MostJadedGamer 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Arent Boise manged to win without any offensive points. Only points Boise scored were on a defensive TD. BYU foolishly decided to go for 2 when they managed to score there only points with 3:30 left. Result Boise St wins 7-6. That game was mind numbling bad.

C-Wil
C-Wil 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Arent What about the "game of the century" last year? That was bad as well. Well maybe not bad but boring.

Tequila or Failure
Tequila or Failure 5pts

Are we sure we can trade James after the season for a high 2013 draft pick (as suggested in the last email)? Thought this had been discussed prior, w/ the conclusion being that free agency period begins a few weeks after the draft, trade deadline is midseason, & in the interim, rfa's aren't eligible to be traded at draft time since they aren't officially under contract at that time.?

MostJadedGamer
MostJadedGamer 5pts

 @Tequila or Failure  I am totally against against trading for drafts. If we trade Harden we need to package Perkins, and get a good big man.

OBoy
OBoy 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Now that Nazr, Nate, Fish (all very poor tweeters) aren't on the team can we agree the Reggie is the worst twitter follow on the team. 

OBoyzOld Man
OBoyzOld Man 5pts

 @OBoymuzik HASHEEEM IS PRETTY BAD, TOO

Jooseppi
Jooseppi 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @OBoymuzik This will seem like piling on after what could be construed as Maynor bashing below, but Maynor was the worst for me. He used to tweet to much, sullying my pristine, inane timeline. 

OBoy
OBoy 5pts

 @Jooseppi Maynor and Cook both aren't very good, but the occasional  "doing so and so with KD and Russ" make their pages not that bad. 

 

Reggie to me tweets like most college girls I know. Very topical, lots of hashtags. and it doesn't matter the subject, movies, reality shows, poor music etc etc. 

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

I don't know about Twitter, but he eats like a gerbil.

beelieve035
beelieve035 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I'll just let this sit here.

http://instagram.com/p/P0e5ooCiNa/

This comment has been deleted

I'm a Specialist
I'm a Specialist 5pts

 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @novelisticbee0 Yes, although technically they call it "hipster" or "Euro." Personally, I can't get into it. For one, I'm fat. Secondly, I'm not going to be walking around with pants tighter than females.

I'm a Specialist
I'm a Specialist 5pts

 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @novelisticbee0 son Bugle Boy jeans from Montgomery Ward's, and I had mad .925 silver pieces and Geneva watches. Here we go, found a throwback pic, but I'm killing them with the More Uptempos because I was in Germany at the time and nobody else on the continent had this colorway http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6iep4pzxu1ra64sko2_500.jpg

I'm a Specialist
I'm a Specialist 5pts

 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @novelisticbee0 remember Velour suits though? They need to bing those back. Only place you can get them now is Burlington and they'll be crap brands like Brooklyn Express and South Pole. A velour suit, crispy white tee, and white on white Force 1s = doing it in the 90s.

I'm a Specialist
I'm a Specialist 5pts

 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @novelisticbee0 Yea, white ts are a fashion staple though. Kats just wear them so tight now you can see their heart beat as opposed to the Footocker 5 for 20 tall tees with "short sleeves" that go to or past your elbows

I'm a Specialist
I'm a Specialist 5pts

 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @novelisticbee0 LoL, G Unit jeans were O.D baggy. I still wear Rocawear but classic straight fit, LRG, and I like Levis 501s rigids but you have to buy it a size up. Funny how fashion trends change so much.

OBoy
OBoy 5pts

 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @novelisticbee0 it's an LA thing. 

I'm a Specialist
I'm a Specialist 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @novelisticbee0 He stole Thabeet's shirt and washed it in hot water then dried it a bunch of times. BITER!!

OBoy
OBoy 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @DennisBerry  @novelisticbee0 beat me to it http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/273441_9031541_1823211638_n.jpg

 

i think the convo went like this 

Russ:where do you get that shirt in people sizes, i want to make it famous.

Thabeet: it's from Tanzania

Russ: OK i'll just make my own. 

OBoy
OBoy 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

 @DennisBerry  @novelisticbee0 Thabeets writing a blog called "How to be Russell Westbrook on a NBA minimum salary."

I'm a Specialist
I'm a Specialist 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @novelisticbee0  @OBoymuzik It's by Topman, and unlike all the other extravagant crap Russ wore last season, is pretty affordable at only 56 bucks http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/topman-short-sleeve-print-shirt/3368094?origin=related-3368094-0-0-1-1

beelieve035
beelieve035 5pts

 @OBoymuzik  Liked for "people sizes".

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