Trey Kerby of TBJ on KD’s new namesake: “I am not exactly sure where on the list of career triumphs having one of the cutest animals in all of nature named after you falls, but I’d imagine it’s pretty high. Just guessing, I’d put it behind a statue but significantly ahead of some family naming their child after a player and the player never knowing about it. How many NBA players do you know with zoo animals named after them? Probably not very many. And how many of those very few are animals that everyone sees and goes “Holy smokes, that thing is cute whatever it is?” Even less, I am guessing. Of course, you have to wonder if there are other animals at this zoo named for other players on the Thunder. Is there an ornery turtle there named Russell? A bearded dragon named James? A very wise but very slow elephant with a particularly angry disposition called Perk? The possibilities are endless.”
HoopSpeak on top pick-and-roll combos: “James Harden – Nick Collison: It certainly seems like a stretch to see a reserve big man make this list, but Nick Collison is no ordinary sub. He’s not exactly a top-flight finisher, but over the years Collison proved at least capable in that department (unlike his turnover-prone teammate, Kendrick Perkins). Combined with his best attribute – the ability to set bone-jarring screens — it helps Collison turn even marginal ball handlers into scoring threats. But his partner on this list is no ordinary ball handler — it’s foul-drawing machine James Harden. With Collison setting him loose, Harden becomes an even bigger threat to rack up free throws and buckets against overwhelmed defenses.”
Looking at Russell Westbrook’s position in #NBARank.
Jenni Carlson: “Because the number of potential viewers is less, a small-market team is never going to be able to do a TV deal that compares to what those big markets have. That means a team like Thunder can’t spend itself out of a problem. But does that mean the Thunder is willing to pay nothing in luxury tax? I say no. And even though Presti isn’t going to come out and say it, I don’t think the franchise is opposed to paying some luxury tax. Consider this: the Thunder has been negotiating with Harden. That alone is a signal that the team would be willing to pay something in luxury tax. If the team wasn’t, it wouldn’t even be talking with Harden’s representatives because the number it would be offering would be laughable.”
KD is the third best active player in NBA2K13, coming in rated a 94 before Dwight Howard and LeBron James. Russell Westbrook and James Harden somehow weren’t in the initial list, but Serge Ibaka is an 81.
An anonymous GM about Jeff Green: “You’re talking about a guy who you’re now making a part of your future who Oklahoma City knew they couldn’t win a championship with. He doesn’t have a position. He doesn’t rebound it well enough to be a power forward, he doesn’t shoot it well enough to be a small forward, he isn’t quick enough to be a small forward, so you can’t replace Kevin Garnett and you can’t replace Paul Pierce. So not only do you overpay him, but you don’t get an [injury] exclusion on the heart?”
http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/09/nbarank-recap-kevin-durant-second-westbrook-9th/
"Once Westbrook gets a ring, and becomes that player everyone wants him to be, just then can we talk about Westbrook being a top 10 player in the league."
I don't think Russ will ever be "the player everyone wants him to be".
@novelisticbee0 the sad story of westbrook's career is that he'll get the blame if they lose and durant will get the credit if they win.
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@tronchaser I'll have a couple from a distance until I move to Oklahoma. Lol
@MisterJohnsonOKC @Thunder S @novelisticbee0 ...,,and, if Russ does have a couple of rings, that means *I* have a couple of rings to celebrate as well. (being my hometown team!)
@MisterJohnsonOKC @Thunder S @novelisticbee0 Hey, don't forget about that lucrative Ozarka water deal.
@Thunder S Russ' career will be interesting to watch. I feel like he doesn't care what the ESPN analyst and the blogger feel about him. He'll get his ring(s) walking beside KD, not behind him, and I think that'll be more satisfying to him.
@Thunder S @novelisticbee0 Russ will just have to help KD win some rings and console himself with all of those championships.
Too bad NBA2K13 will have to wait a week. Resident Evil 6 whaaaat.
Black Hammer, White Lightning is the supreme PNR combo.
I think JG can be a solid player. I think he needs a couple years to recover from the surgery and build back some confidence before he steps out of the shadows of Pierce or KG, but I think when those guys time is done in BOS Green would be a solid fit for both.
He has never shined because he was always in KD (and RW) shadow in OKC and was also forced to play PF most of the time, which he can do (to the extent Collison can play center) but, he needs to be in a flexible position where he is just a F, not SF or PF.
but it all comes down to confidence... he needs to get that back by playing a productive year or two.
@ThunderBelize Green was given as much opportunity as Westbrook (and even KD initially). He consistently played a ton of minutes and was given the green light to shoot or create on his own. To say he was in KD or Westbrook's shadow is denying his real contribution. He had 3.5 years of significant opportunity and team confidence to prove anything close to his promised value, and he couldn't.
Look, we basically traded him straight up for Perkins, and Perkins has been largely terrible here. And yet, the team has exploded since he left. We added little in the trade, we simply got rid of an anchor.
@Keith00 To a degree you are correct. However even with free reign JG was still 3rd fiddle playing at a position where he was often undersized. (I recall Collison one year in Seattle being the starting center for much of the year - most said he was a terrible center, but solid all around player). Same thing... judge a fish by it's ability to climb rocks...
Lets not forget that for his first 2 (1 in SEA and 1 in OKC) coaching and system was a complete failure for everyone - even the latter part of year 2 under brooks was less than impressive.
I just think Green needs to build some confidence before being asked to be the (co)guy on a team. and he will do that in Doc's system with aging players where he can get quality and quantity minutes.
Traded and anchor for and Anchor?
@ThunderBelize I just wanted to point out that Green was second fiddle in his rookie and sophomore years. He was third fiddle in his 3rd year, but everything Harden has done to date should be an incredible indictment of Green's game. Green never came off the bench and played almost 40 minutes per night. How is it he was never as good at anything as Harden is now, given how Harden legitimately has been playing in the shadows of superstars his whole career?
My point is less to him having any value, he does have value as a bench player. I'm more alluding to how confusing his current contract is (he has never been nor shown the skills to be worth almost 10 million per year), and how any predictions of him in a starting lineup seem most accurately akin to predictions of failure.
@ThunderBelize @Keith00 I have to agree with Keith here but you may have a point that Boston's system and Doc may get more out of him than the Thunder did.
Although Perkins has not been great from a statiscal point of view, it is easy to forget how badly we got torched in the post prior to him arriving. We literally had no one to defend the 'true' centers and anyone with size. Presti probably knew he was overpaying to a degree for Perk, but he fits the team ethos, fills a previous need and most importantly was happy to come to OKC which we can't say about most of the other decent big men in the NBA.
Re NBA 2k13 rankings:
I poked around and followed the links. Jeff Green and Carlos Boozer are ranked the same: 78. Food for thought.
@ou_sas From a purely numeric perspective, that's not unreasonable. Jeff Green possesses a bevy of skills and talents. If you rated them all and put them together, he would look like a great player. The problem has always been that his multitude of skills never translate together in game situations.
Strange that Eli Freedman "takes the blinders off" to review Russ, but then keeps them on in all the guys he lists as should be ahead of him (except maybe Dirk, but he didn't have that good of a season last year).
#Itsnotreallythatstrange
KD is for sure top 2 in the #NBARank.
@ILikePancakes I was going to say, we were just waiting on #3. Lebron is the obvious #1, and Dwight was going to be right next to KD.
Guys - i found this article particularly interesting on the James Harden situation. Honestly, that would be such a tough call to make when you look at the $ figures at the end -
http://basketball.realgm.com/article/223657/The_Choices_of_James_Harden
@PaulRogan It's a good article but I had a problem with his comparison of Ginobili and Johnson - Ginobili is very clearly the better player, putting up comparable counting #'s in fewer minutes. Harden's somewhere in between. I think he's better than Joe Johnson right now, not as good as Ginobili.
Also he's wrong about Ginobili 'taking a series of below market value extensions'. Ginobili signed a 6 year $52M contract in 2004, before he made an All Star game, and that contract was considered at the time to be speculative for the Spurs since Ginobili was already 27 years old. He was coming off a great playoffs but Harden put up far better numbers last season than Ginobili did in his first contract year.
Ginobili signed a 3 year max extension in 2010, so he didn't give up much money, if any, there.
So the situations are completely different.
@justin_mia @PaulRogan harden put up better numbers but ginobili is a way better closer and more clutch which was invaluable for the spurs
@justin_mia @kennygee90 Yeah you are right about the timing of Ginobili's 04 deal and the Spurs getting a bargain. The fact that Ginobili came into the NBA at 25 sort of throws this out a bit.
JJ at 20 and Harden at 19? entering the NBA obviously gives them more time to establish themselves.
@justin_mia @PaulRogan oh never mind then, your right if its the next season
@kennygee90 @PaulRogan Ginobili didn't explode until the next season, and the Spurs had a bargain on their hands.
@kennygee90 @PaulRogan Harden this season was way better than Ginobili in 2003-04 when he signed his first extension.
For anyone thinking about having a read, it compares career averages (which are surprisingly strikingly similar!), paths and earnings of Joe Johnson and Manu Ginobili and what decision James Harden has in front of him.
@PaulRogan I don't know what the real difference in the offers will end up being though. If he's being offered something identical to Serge, then it's possible that it might end up being a total difference of 6-7 mil. (I'm too lazy to look up my own spreadsheet on this XDDDD ).
@PaulRogan Also, we know that teams will only be able to offer him 3/4 year deals instead of the absurd 5 year deal JJ got under the old CBA. So that'll help.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgbOTqYzmgHidE8xTlBZR2NqWDVXZWN0dXdDdGR4UlE#gid=0
@ou_sas That could be true. If he has a deal similar to Serge ($48 million), I would use Eric Gordon's $60 mil contract as a comparative. We should also keep in mind JJ's deal was absolutely ridiculous and probably the only person not named David Kahn that would have given him the deal would have been the Atlanta GM so could be an exception. I'm terrible with spread sheets and advanced data haha.
I've been saying that about Green since 2009!
@justin_mia I read the bolts and immediately thought "Justin's going to be really happy somewhere in the comments."
@justin_mia
Sometimes it just takes three years for general consensus to come around to acknowledging that you are right. :)
@ThunderChick2010 When will they learn?
@justin_mia @ThunderChick2010 When trolls start listening to stats?
@justin_mia @ThunderChick2010 Sometimes they never learn. Detroit still thought AI was a superstar when he should have already been on the bench or out of the league. As recently as 2010, a team (admittedly Orlando) still thought Vince Carter was a go-to scorer on a good team. Antione Walker made an entire career out of being overrated.
Teams are never going to stop making terrible decisions.
@justin_mia I thought it was extremely interesting that some GMs and Scouts still had such a high opinion of him (second page of the article). They were saying that he's not overpaid when healthy, or that he's completely tradable at that salary. Everyone was so concerned with the health issues, but only that first GM was smart enough to say, "That guy wasn't that good even when healthy."
Jeff Green is still living off draft status and OKC's success it seems.
@Keith00 @justin_mia This argument is like a blast from the past. JG just lacks the skills he needs for his size. Honestly, he and Russ were so much more aggressive than KD those first two years. JG made some seriously amazing clutch plays (not to mention the game winning dunk in Josh Smith's face). The difference to me is that KD realized that and started knit-picking his game apart kept working as if he was at the end of the bench. he was determined to make himself more and more unstoppable. JG either simply peaked in his first year or just didn't work as hard as KD or Russ.
Granted he was basically walking through a landmine field on defense because they didn't want to wear Kevin out. But to me, if he could've just been relied on from wide-open 3 point range, we might not have even made the trade. Him posting up is a coaching problem. Him not being able to make wide open shots is his own failure. So ya, unless he can become excellent and reliable at SOMETHING, I don't think he has any value in the NBA.
@justin_mia Jeff Green s problem was his lack of motor. thats ok if you have one elite skill, but he didnt have that either.
Jeff Green never improved. That was my biggest issue with him. He is the same player now as he was in year two, only he's not making 38% of his three pointers. He is soft down low, and soft on the boards. I recall a game against Memphis where Green played 40 minutes and didn't get one rebound. There were plays where he was just hovering around the FT line extended when a shot went up, not even trying. Kevin Durant is smooth, he makes the game look effortless sometimes. Jeff Green, I think, tried to be the same way but instead of looking smooth, to me he looked disinterested. He can't defend any position consistently, which will always be a problem. He doesn't have a lot going for him offensively except in transition. And he hasn't improved much even though he has 10k minutes accumulated...
@justin_mia JG would be a perfect 7th or 8th guy. But no way is he a legit starter in this league.
@justin_mia Green was insanely overpaid.