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What are these ‘challenges’ the Thunder face?

by Royce Young on September 17, 2012 at 2:34 pm 687 Comments

Layne Murdoch/NBAE/Getty Images

When David Stern visited Oklahoma City on Christmas to open the Thunder’s 2011-12 campaign last season, he didn’t sugarcoat the situation.

“People are saying to Miami, ‘Well, you’re going to have a decision to make with respect to one of your big three.’ And they may say the same thing to Oklahoma City, and that’s a good thing. That means you’ve arrived and you’re out there being competitive.”

Stern essentially was making the statement that the Thunder weren’t going to be able to keep their core under the new collective bargaining agreement. He spoke about “player sharing,” meaning the league’s talent gets passed around as much as the money.

The idea behind the more punitive luxury tax was that it would even the playing field some, limiting big market teams like the Lakers, the Knicks and the Nets from spending large amounts of money to compete.

“The idea that the luxury tax hurts small markets is ludicrous,” Stern said in December. “It may impact a small market that’s a great team and has to raise its payroll. But at the bottom, it’s designed to eliminate the ability of teams to use their economic resources to distort competition.”

Except in the Thunder’s case, it very clearly is hurting them. The new CBA appears to be backfiring as the Lakers are ignoring a future hefty tax bill after acquiring Dwight Howard and the Nets are set to pay some $60 million in penalties in 2015. The system that was supposed to aid teams like the Thunder isn’t at all. We know the situation with James Harden well, and it seems pretty obvious that if the Thunder were located in Los Angeles or New York, Harden would’ve been re-signed months ago. Obviously this situation is kind unique to the new CBA, but it seems that building in the so-called “Thunder Model” may not be the best approach in this new environment.

Stern was asked about teams just paying the tax. And in December, he seemed more than confident nobody would go very far over.

“They could, but they won’t,” he said. “There are going to be very few circumstances where someone is going to go $20 million over to pay $65 million in total unless they’re sure this is their time and they’re going for it once.”

Something is inherently different in OKC and LA’s situations. And it’s the “challenges” that Sam Presti has talked so much about. The Thunder organization hasn’t shied away from acknowledging the issues facing them in a small market like Oklahoma City. But what are they exactly? I mean, we know OKC doesn’t have as many people in it as Los Angeles, but it’s deeper than that.

David Aldridge of NBA.com laid it out beautifully:

Two, while OKC sells out Chesapeake Energy Arena, and does an excellent job producing revenue in the NBA’s 28th-largest market, it still doesn’t have the financial firewall to protect it that the bigger-market teams do. This is the difference between producing revenue and being profitable.

According to Forbes Magazine’s most recent evaluations of NBA franchise wealth, OKC had the fifth-highest amount of operating income — the club’s earnings before interest, taxes, appreciation and amortization — in the league, at $24.9 million. Only the Knicks ($74.9 million), Bulls ($59.4 million), Cavaliers ($32.9 million) and Heat ($26 million) did better. And Forbes rated the Thunder as the NBA’s 15th-most valuable franchise, worth an estimated $348 million. At first glance, it’s all good.

But OKC has limits to what it can produce. With a base of tickets holders that is the second-smallest of any city in the country with a pro sports team, the Thunder cannot gouge its fans for season tickets, or charge its corporate sponsors exponentially more year to year for suites or signage.

What continues to separate the NBA’s haves from its have-nots is the gaping, Grand Canyon-like separation in each team’s local television deals.

The Lakers’ new deal with Time Warner that will create two local TV channels in L.A. — one in English, one in Spanish — that will broadcast Lakers games for the next two decades is, again, worth $4 billion over the next 20 years. Four billion. The entire league generated about $4 billion in revenue this past season. That is $200 million per year that the Lakers will get just for their local TV deal, 10 times more money than the Thunder are believed to get from their local TV deal.

It’s a sobering reality. The Thunder have two things working against them right now: Their inherent challenges of operating in a small market, and the league’s system.  Strike one, strike two.

Behind some fairly brilliant management and a hefty amount of luck though, the Thunder are still thriving. They nearly won an NBA championship last season and will positioned for another strong run at one this season. And whatever happens in the future with Harden, OKC still possesses a core of Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka, which is definitely enough to remain atop the NBA contender pile.

But it’s the TV dollars the Thunder don’t have. And while you may succeed in gate revenue and merchandise, the gap in TV money isn’t close. Yeah, there’s revenue sharing, but the Thunder are in another unique place there. The way the model is built the smallest revenue producing teams are supposed to receive around triple of what they got under the last CBA, something around $16 million annually. Except again, the Thunder weren’t a have-not this season. It’s likely the Thunder actually might be payers in revenue sharing because of their success.

Doesn’t feel right, does it?

And it doesn’t feel right that this new system that was supposed to even things out and give franchises like the Thunder a level playing field is actually doing the opposite. The big boys appear to remain unaffected by the more punitive tax while the Thunder are extremely aware of it and are operating entirely under the cloud of it. If anything, it seems that the new system has might strengthen the league’s middle class, but create an even wider gap between the top dogs and the smallest markets.

Again, let’s not act like this is some woe-is-me situation. The Thunder have it very good. VERY VERY good. This is a wonderful organization that has built a sustainable model of long-term success. The Thunder aren’t a flash-in-the-pan team that made a miracle run. They’re positioned to be in the championship conversation for many years to come. The system might be biased and the Thunder absolutely have different challenges to overcome, but clearly, nothing is insurmountable.

One last quote from Stern from December: “You’ll see. It’s beauty. It’s all going to happen and then we’ll look back at it rather than prejudge it. I happen to think it’s going to be good for all of us, and it’s going to hit small market and large market teams alike.”

The new luxury tax is an equal opportunity system, at least in theory. But we all know the NBA is a class system. It’s the way it’s always been and it’s the way it’ll always be. No system or structure will ever change that.

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Barry Amenema
Barry Amenema 5pts

Just in case.... http://fyre.it/1qv7

senseandsenescence
senseandsenescence 5pts

Here you go TB

http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/09/tuesday-bolts-9-18-12/

ThunderBelize
ThunderBelize 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

@royce young - You're killing my BDay buzz with no bolts...  I hope it's because you are writing a Harden Signs Extension article....

Barry Amenema
Barry Amenema 5pts

 @ThunderBelize  HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

• http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1329264-breaking-down-why-russell-westbrook-will-be-the-2012-13-nba-mvp

• http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1335943-best-and-worst-case-scenarios-for-every-nba-team-heading-into-2012-13-season/page/22

• http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1338344-top-10-realistic-expectations-for-the-oklahoma-city-thunder-in-2012-13

• http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1332901-5-things-oklahoma-city-thunders-kevin-durant-can-teach-perry-jones-iii

 

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Barry Amenema  @ThunderBelize 

Gag gift?  :)

Barry Amenema
Barry Amenema 5pts

 @ThunderChick2010  http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/09/tuesday-bolts-9-18-12/

 

for reals.....

erics
erics 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

What are you feelings on Greg Monroe from Detroit?  Is he a good center in your opinion?

long arm of the law
long arm of the law 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @erics I'll leave this one to dancassidy

dwells
dwells 5pts

the lakers, on paper are better than the thunder right now.  unfortunatley, i don't think our coach will get the most out of our team.  the reason we won last year, we were more talented than the other teams.  the only team that could matchup with us athletically, we beat them.  the thunder is not above losing in the second round to the right team.  (Clippers, Spurs, or Lakers) we will have to meet one of those, most likely.  The thunder still don't play well together.  regardless if we keep Harden or not, we need to play better offensively, and we don't do that now.  Sefalosha still is just standing in the corner most of the time, and all we do is run that freethrow line extended play for durant.  We need continuity, and even if our post players can't post up that well, we could still run offense through them.  Let our guards rub off of them, and cross screen more.  If we excecute better, we could beat anyone in the league

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @dwells We had the 2nd best offense in the league last year.

dwells
dwells 5pts

 @f5alcon sure, we are the most athletic team in the league and we are incredible in the open court.  The fastest team in transition, we are unbelievable when you get westbrook durant and ibaka running the floor.  But how are we when the game slows down?  we don't get good shots, and we don't move the ball. Thats a fact.  If we just are minimally better in the half court, we could probably beat anyone in the league.  Our halfcourt offense is terrible, i don't think anyone would disagree with that

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

Favorite obscure players of the last decade?

 

Walter McCarty, Boston. 

senseandsenescence
senseandsenescence 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Honest question for those who claim Serge is more important to the team based on the position he plays.  Do you think Serge is currently better than James?  Do you think he will be better than James in 3 years when people start thinking about signing them to new contracts?

 

The whole point of basketball (though this evades Scotty B sometimes) is to get five guys on the court which are better than the five guys the other team has out there.  As long as at least one of those five guys can handle the ball well you will win most of the time.

MostJadedGamer
MostJadedGamer 5pts

 @senseandsenescence

 Yes 3 years fom now I think Ibaka will be a better player then Harden, and no you are completely wrong about just throwing the 5 best players out there. You can throw 5 good offensive players out there, and you still won't win without defense. Ibaka's defense is more important then Harden's offense.

courtsense
courtsense 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

This has probably already been discussed here while I was away this summer, but the other problem with the Lakers signing Dwight Howard - beyond the fact that it makes them a more challenging and dangerous team on the court - is that it inadvertently forces the Thunder to keep the otherwise-obsolete Perkins solely for the possibility of facing the Lakers in the playoffs. So the Lakers get better, and they simultaneously limit OkC's ability to do the same...ouch.

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @courtsense 

Welcome back, courtsense!  You've been missed.  :)

long arm of the law
long arm of the law 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @ThunderChick2010  I can say with relative certainty that TC liked without reading or at least in spite of what was said.

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @cemitten 

Are you questioning my DT-integrity?  I never issue a like without reading.  The "otherwise-obsolete Perkins" phrase hurt, but I "liked" because I agreed--albeit reluctantly.

senseandsenescence
senseandsenescence 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @courtsense I get where you are coming from and the Brooks school of coaching suggests you will be correct.  However, I don't buy the argument in a vacuum.  Nobody can really stop Dwight, so let him get his 30-20 and shut down the rest of  the team and outscore them by having better skilled players out there.  That is the whole point of small ball.  When you don't have a dominant center try to force a mismatch by putting more of your better (though smaller) players out there.

MissYouCole
MissYouCole 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @senseandsenescence  @courtsense I honestly and truly think we'll see a minimized dwight this season.  His back is going to change his style of play a lot and we already know he won't be ready for opening night.  I think he struggles a bit to start and doesn't fully come back to form till next season. Could be just wishful thinking though

senseandsenescence
senseandsenescence 5pts

 @FREE_COLE  @courtsense abstract here if you're interested

 

http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/39/3/632

senseandsenescence
senseandsenescence 5pts

 @FREE_COLE  @courtsense While I want to agree with you, this study from Northwestern suggests that Dwight will probably recover nearly completely at some point even if it isn't this year.

 

http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2011/01/nfl-linemen-back-surgery.html

courtsense
courtsense 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

And anyone who thinks this trend of Harden partying with strippers won't play a role in contract negotiations with OkC's notoriously uptight/control-freak management doesn't know Presti very well.

sammasaaron
sammasaaron 5pts

So is there a discussion buried in here about OKC hiring Pruiti? Because I don't want to wade through all the Harden max contract arguments. So if you could just recreate the discussion I missed here, that would be just dandy.

Jooseppi
Jooseppi 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @sammasaaron In one of these posts, somewhere.

Various people: "Cool."

Other people: "Why should I care?"

Crow: "Here is where Pruiti has been right or wrong recently."

sammasaaron
sammasaaron 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Jooseppi @ou_sas Wow, this actually worked, thanks guys. @Jooseppi : Your Crow is spot on.

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @sammasaaron Couple of days ago. Most of it was pleasure, coupled with trepidation that he wouldn't actually be listened to.

long arm of the law
long arm of the law 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ou_sas I am so far onto the trepidation side I wasn't even happy.

courtsense
courtsense 5pts

I should clarify that I believe Harden can/will get a Max deal somewhere. I just don't think it should/will be with OkC.

okcprophetic
okcprophetic 5pts

@courtsense that's rite...somewhere but not there in okc- case close

Jooseppi
Jooseppi 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

I can't believe I was suckered into another Harden argument. Should have had my coffee before posting. I feel violated. 

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts

 @Jooseppi You can't escape them. Heck, there are still occasionally arguments about whether we should or shouldn't have traded Jeff Green, and that was 2 years ago now. We'll have arguments about Harden moving forward even after he signs/is traded.

MissYouCole
MissYouCole 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Jooseppi YOU'RE WELCOME :D:D:D

Shake Down the Thunder
Shake Down the Thunder 5pts

Harden is a max player, but not for this team. 

senseandsenescence
senseandsenescence 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I can't believe people are still arguing about this.  If you don't believe James Harden's skills equal a max contract, you are entitled to your opinion.  If you don't believe he is WORTH a max contract from any team in the league you are wrong.  I'm pretty sure this has been posted before, but it is a realistic and semi-economic view on why stars get superstar deals.  http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/7/12/3151439/nba-free-agency-2012-brook-lopez-roy-hibbert

MostJadedGamer
MostJadedGamer 5pts

 @senseandsenescence

 Harden is a max player for MOST teams in the league, but as a 3rd scoring option for the Thunder he is not a max player.

okcprophetic
okcprophetic 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@senseandsenescence call me what you want but if harden is not scoring, you tell me how does he affect the game otherwise...speaking of courtsense....you should knw that basketball is played at two ends

MissYouCole
MissYouCole 5pts

 @okcprophetic  @senseandsenescence Again his defense is average. And the fact that he is a threat to score and opens up the floor is incredibly huge. Look at our offensive numbers with him on the floor vs off.  He opens it up way more than Sef can. 

okcprophetic
okcprophetic 5pts

@FREE_COLE @senseandsenescence at best his defense is average occasionally..plus, is he a good rebounder for a 6'5 220 plb? No...honey badger is 6'3 190 and rebounds better than harden

MissYouCole
MissYouCole 5pts

 @senseandsenescence I just asked cause I was way late to the party yesterday

senseandsenescence
senseandsenescence 5pts

 @FREE_COLE more directed toward courtsense than you.

courtsense
courtsense 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

James Harden:

 

1) never been an All-Star

2) never made an All-NBA Team

3) never made an All-Defensive team

4) never led his team in anything meaningful

5) done nothing to help his team win in their first Finals appearance

6) done nothing lately but post a series of embarrassing "here's me with some strippers" photos

 

Deserving of a Max contract that pushes his team over the cap and into luxury tax territory?!?! 

 

I think he either accepts less or gets sent packing...

This comment has been deleted

okcprophetic
okcprophetic 5pts

@MisterJohnsonOKC @courtsense lol he did good in the early rounds

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @MisterJohnsonOKC  @courtsense Perhaps you forget the fourth quarter of game 4 v. Dallas... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qvAgw_ubmE

long arm of the law
long arm of the law 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ou_sas  THAT DUNK

ou_sas
ou_sas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ThunderChick2010  @MisterJohnsonOKC  @courtsense MJOKC said playoffs. :)

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ou_sas  @MisterJohnsonOKC  @courtsense 

Great JH videos, but courtsense's #5 said "Finals appearance."

Shake Down the Thunder
Shake Down the Thunder 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @courtsense 

 

1-3:All "anything" teams are based purely off of reputation and Harden has only been in the league for a few years as the third option for a small market team. 

 

4: Best TS% on the team

 

5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6_KYulzT4M&feature=player_embedded

 

6: GOLD MEDAL

okcprophetic
okcprophetic 5pts

@Shake Down the Thunder @courtsense watch. listen and learn http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCUQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DWESXG4uydJo&ei=ophYUMywAsS30AHxlYDQDA&usg=AFQjCNFwWw-GHFh5l_Sb9dgEw-Ud78F6Ug

okcprophetic
okcprophetic 5pts

@Shake Down the Thunder @Shake harden is TEN YEARS younger than kobe...AND LIKE I SAID, HIS DEFENSE IS AT ITS BEST "OCCASIONALLY"

Shake Down the Thunder
Shake Down the Thunder 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @okcprophetic  @Shake  @courtsense Two can play this game 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63TDVWnZ5K8&feature=player_embedded

Shake Down the Thunder
Shake Down the Thunder 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @okcprophetic  @Shake  @courtsense Really? He's not a good defender because he can't guard the best player in the game who is three inches taller and probably 50 lbs bigger?

okcprophetic
okcprophetic 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@courtsense I SHOULD GIVE YOU TEN LIKES FOR THAT

Trackbacks

  1. A counter to OKC’s ‘challenges’ in the new system | Daily Thunder.com says:
    September 18, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    [...] Monday I wrote about life as a small market team in the new collective bargaining agreement and how it’s unfortunately impacting the Thunder. The league is full of haves and have-nots [...]

  2. OKC Loud Links: New Week; What’s New? | JockSpin.com Sports News and Opinion Aggregator and Publisher says:
    September 20, 2012 at 10:06 am

    [...] What are these ‘challenges’ the Thunder face? Log-In / Customize [...]

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