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Chin Up: Moving on from James Harden

by Royce Young on October 28, 2012 at 3:23 pm 722 Comments

Andrew D. Bernstein/NBAE/Getty Images

As Sam Presti sat in his office late Saturday night, piecing together the final details of a trade that would send James Harden to Houston, he looked out his window and saw Serge Ibaka and Russell Westbrook on the practice court putting in work with the coaching staff.

And he knew it was all going to be all right.

“I thought about the fact that we’re adding two quality players coming in to a group of guys that are really invested to what we’re trying to do here and take a lot of pride in playing for the Thunder,” Presti said. “We’ve been through this. There will be an assimilation process. But I really do feel good about the foundation we have in terms of adding new people and new players to the system we have in place.”

It’s true. While it really feels like doom and gloom there is a certain unrecognized reality here: The Thunder are still very, very good. They still have Kevin Durant. Still have Russell Westbrook. Still have Serge Ibaka. Still have Hasheem Thabe–, still have some other players. And they bring in a player in Kevin Martin who at his best, is maybe unmatched in the league in terms of offensive efficiency.

The Thunder are still good. The Thunder are still good. The Thunder are still good.

Still, there’s a strange feel to all this and that same thing seemed to come through during Presti’s press conference. While he naturally maintained his business-like, matter-of-fact approach, it was obvious that this is a disappointing day. The Thunder desperately wanted to retain Harden. Presti mentioned it early on, but Harden was the first pick for the Thunder franchise in Oklahoma City. He’s every bit of a player they had in mind in building a long-term sustainable roster that could grow together.

And they were forced to trade him for an expiring contract, an unproven prospect and some picks.

The question a lot of us are asking is why now? Why not wait and see what this season had in store? With a clear contending roster in place, why take such a gamble with it and potentially upset the chemistry of the roster and damage the chances to win a title? Presti explained his thinking:

“We also understood that once it became a reality that there wasn’t going to be a way for us to find way to keep him, we had to start thinking about what was next and what was in the best interest of this franchise both in the short and long term,” he said. “Quite honestly the value in a trade was greater based on the fact the Rockets could offer him the contract he was seeking. By doing it when we did it, I believe it will allow the Rockets to secure him and James will get the contract he was seeking and because of that, we were able to capitalize on the trade and probably get a little more than if we would’ve waited.”

As things tend to do when Sam Presti rationalized and explains it, it makes sense. Wait and let the season play out and you’re handcuffed into paying Harden a max deal. And if that option was completely off the table for Harden, then there was no point in waiting. The return on investment would be virtually completely wiped out and OKC would be left holding their hat in their hand.

But there is something strange about being so close to the figure — a reported $4.5 million short — and not being able to close the deal. To which makes one wonder: Was this about more than dollars and cents? Was this about maintaining the Thunder culture, upholding the principles and values this organization prides itself on? With other players like Westbrook and Ibaka and Nick Collison making adjustments and flexing a bit on their deals and Harden standing firm in his demand for max dollars, could Presti and the Thunder not justify going against the identity of the team? If everyone else was willing to pitch in and be part of the greater good, what made Harden so special that he didn’t have to?

“Any time you make a decision of this magnitude, there are a myriad of factors,” Presti said. “I can understand on the surface probably some ways to look at it. But at the end of the day, it’s really several different things. I think the term ‘sacrifice’ gets thrown around maybe too loosely and certainly over the last three or four months it’s picked up quite a bit of steam.

“But at the end of the day as I said before, we’ve done a lot of deals and found a way to make it work for a lot of different people here,” he continued. “It’s a combination, a mutual interest, a give and take, finding a common ground, but sometimes that doesn’t work. Sometimes there’s just not a solution. It’s a difficult thing when you come to that reality that there may not be a solution to this.

“The challenges of sustaining success are a lot more stringent than those of achieving success. And we’re not immune to that. What we will do is continue to operate as a team on the core principles and values we established in 2008 and make our decisions based on those with the franchise first in mind and we’re confident in that process.”

It feels wrong to part with Harden. Just doesn’t feel right. It’s different than trading Jeff Green. There was a clear gap on the roster then and the Thunder were working to fill a hole. This, this downgrading for the sake of good business. I understand looking out for the franchise, but winning is what matters and if this impacts that negatively, then it’s going to be hard to justify it.

I mean, this is James Harden. He had cemented himself as every bit as important as Durant, Westbrook or Rumble. He was the Thunder. When you thought about OKC, Harden was part of that immediate image. And now he’s gone. Parting ways with someone that vital to the foundation of your roster isn’t easy and you can be sure Presti and the Thunder didn’t take this lightly. It wasn’t decision made without emotion. It hurt them too.

“I don’t think it’s ever easy when you have to make that phone call to any player. My conversation yesterday with Andy Rautins wasn’t easy,” Presti said. “As I’ve said before, players are people first. Especially players that play for this organization, that’s how we think of them. We’re not going to judge anybody. We’re not going to put anything on anybody. We’re going the best thing for the franchise, and as in most cases the players are going to do the best thing for them. You hope those things overlap. We’ve been very fortunate that they have overlapped in a lot of cases.”

When it came down to it, there was no common ground with Harden. The words he spoke of brotherhood and sacrifice were just that — words. He did what he thought was best and you can’t blame him for it. And the Thunder did likewise.

“We wanted to give it every opportunity and I feel like we did,” Presti said. “We were also very transparent throughout the process and when we had to make that decision we made yet another effort to stave that off and when that wasn’t possible we had to move forward and turn the page.

“It wasn’t easy to let any of the guys go. Because as I said before, once you’re a member of the Thunder, you’re in.”

Right until you aren’t. But it’s a two-way street and in the end, the Thunder and Harden were driving in two different directions. As Presti said, time to turn the page.

A few other notes and quotes:

  • Oh yeah, the Thunder don’t have a backup center anymore. So is it Hasheem Thabeet then? “We like Hasheem,” Presti said. “We think he’s somebody that can continue to make strides in our program. We’ll certainly look at everything. But we also have some versatility with our bigs in that Nick has played center for us at times, Serge has played center for us at times and of course Perk, who mans that position on a full-time basis. But Scott has also played various different lineups which gives us flexibility in terms of that position. So we’ll look at everything, but Hasheem has definitely intrigued the coaching staff and their excited about him and the development he’s made since he’s been with us.”
  • On if the Thunder might not be done dealing: “The draft choices are very valuable to us as a franchise because of the fact we’ve primarily built our team through the draft. And we feel like again, that’s going to be an important factor to building depth on the roster, given the significance of the new CBA and the stringent nature of the rules moving forward.”
  • On Jeremy Lamb: “One of the things that really intrigues us with him is he has great length, he is a very smooth athlete that’s getting a lot done although it doesn’t look [that way]. It’s just easy for him, the way it looks. He’s giving you maximal effort, but he’s very graceful.”
  • Presti said Lamb is a “work in progress.”
  • On Eric Maynor and how moving Harden impacts him and his contract situation: “We’ve had positive dialogue with Eric. He’s a guy that means a lot to this ballclub. We value him. He’s continually gaining more and more confidence coming back from the injury and looks fantastic. Whether or not we’ll ultimately do anything with him in terms of an extension is a reflection of his wanting to be here or our wanting to keep him in the program. It may just be better for us to see how things develop for the season, for him, I think he has to see that as well … I do think he really appreciates being with this organization and that goes a long way here.”
  •  Presti said he intended to “let the dust settle” before moving on with what to do with the two open roster spots.
  • Presti on the change in personnel: “One of the things in sports in general that sometimes is tricky is that when there are changes, sometimes we get fixated on trying to replicate things. I think we’ll be different. I think we’ll look a little different. But I don’t know that I would anticipate, I think we’ve got to let it play itself out a little bit.”
  • Presti made a pretty good point about others stepping up: “I think Kevin Martin is a guy that is very versatile in terms of not necessarily needing the ball all the time to create plays. I think that as it is with any team when there are changes, other people emerge. And I’m looking forward to seeing the development of the other pieces of our roster. You have to think back and reflect that James really came into his own when we made significant changes to our roster with Jeff [Green]. Same can be said for Serge. I’m excited to see how our group responds.”
  • Presti pretty much laid it all out as to how it went down. “The culmination of the decision to ultimately move in another direction — we got to a point where we were very transparent, very direct as we are with all of our negotiations with our players as to the fact we had reached a point where we needed to make a decision. We made a final proposal on Friday morning that was unacceptable. We then came back prior to beginning to execute trade initiations with another proposal … We were very transparent with James that if this is not acceptable then we were going to have to move towards making the best decision for the franchise given the fact that it was becoming a reality that more than likely he’d be signing elsewhere at the end of the season,” he continued. “Once that reality was met, as we have in the past, this organization turned the page. We started to focus on what was in the best interest of the program and focus on capitalizing on an opportunity to help us both in the short term and also continue to strengthen the future of the Thunder organization and building this program in a sustainable fashion.”
  • Presti on the new CBA impacting things: “With this particular transaction we’re addressing some needs and we’re also positioning ourselves moving forward with some flexibility. We’re making decisions based on the realities we face and also the realities of the new CBA.”

SAM PRESTI

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Sergio Santos
Sergio Santos 5pts

OK, I had previously said OKC were the side with most leverage on this situation. They could let it play until next summer, they could trade for a better fit, they could trade for a more sustainable future. This last situation is what they opted for.

 

I liked Harden a lot for what he provided, but are OKC in a worse position? Thabo giver the team perimiter defence while Ibaka keeps improving on the offensive side. So, the starting lineup will basically be the same

 

Now, taking into account the return of Eric Maynor (one of the best backup PGs) and considering how skillful/athletic PJ3 is turning out to be, our second unit this season will be comprised of: Eric Maynor, Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, PJ3, Nick Collison/Hasheem the Dream.

 

No, Kevin Martin isn't James Harden, but the combination of Kevin Martin, Eric Maynor and PJ3 may be as effective or even more than having a single James Harden. Lamb can become a solid player in the coming years (on a rookie scale) and there will be picks coming over, which means OKC will stay relevant for the time being.

 

So should we be concerned? Only if Durant/Russ gets injured. OKC are deep (apart from the C position...which is another issue) and looking good for the future.

criznazy53
criznazy53 5pts

Who do we likley get  as our first round picks next year?

Thunderman
Thunderman 5pts

Bye bye championship : (

rankinglion
rankinglion 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@TrueHoop: Subdued @jharden13 comments ... Appears he miscalculated playing hardball with OKC. Dream team AND dream contract more than he could get.

okcjim
okcjim 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

http://nbadraft.net/nba-draft-top-10-shooting-guards

okcjim
okcjim 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

http://bustasports.com/bradley-beal-vs-jeremy-lamb-full-comparison/

lsheiner15
lsheiner15 5pts

 @okcjim that article explains a lot about lamb, i'm pumped to have him

fireBrooks
fireBrooks 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

So Harden was a liar (sacrifice bullshit). Make that a liar and a party animal. That is not exactly the team first/high character guys Presti wants. Combine that with the fact that his stock had rocketed after the 6th man award/Thunder playoff success, the guy had become overrated and it made sense to pull the trigger. The biggest thing, just like in the Jeff trade, is you allow other potential talent to materialize (Jackson, PJ3 and Lamb). We have so much talent on this team, all you need is a good enough coach to make magic of it.

courtsense
courtsense 5pts

 @fireBrooks What he said.

MrRaysian
MrRaysian 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

it just doesn't seem like presti is going to pull a trigger on another trade, especially one involving perkins. So this is our roster with possible FA signings. 

fireBrooks
fireBrooks 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @MrRaysian The expiring contract of Martin is great trade bait. That + pick can get you a quality player. Maybe a big or through in Maynor and get a top tier passing point guard and move Westbrook to the 2. This team is so versatile it's amazing the options we have. Too bad we don't have a coach with the balls to experiment.

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

In light of recent events, if anyone feels compelled to change their #1 - #8 list, just let me know.  Just be sure I've seen/liked the comment and submit your changes by tomorrow evening.

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

How many people had Houston in their top eight originally?

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @El Prez i still wouldnt add them

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @El Prez

 Justin listed the Lakers #2.  Zero of 26 people included Houston in their top 8.

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Thanx.

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Actually--the only change I'm contemplating is moving OKC to No. 1 instead of the Lakers off my first list. I need to sleep on it. I'm not sure Mike Brown can mesh all these egos the more I think about it. Plus---Sissy Boy will start pouting if he doesn't get his touches. Dwight gets all the attention...sigh. The Lakers will either win the whole thing or look very ugly. I don't think it will an in between kind of thing. Where does Justin have the Lakers?

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

Royce should run a poll on here. Something like...

 

With this deal in place---are you still picking the OKC Thunder to advance to the Western Conference Finals?

 

Yes *

No

 

I was yes before the deal and am still yes provided KD, Russ and Serge stay healthy.

 

 

rednuht
rednuht 5pts

 @El Prez I've got to see this team play 20 games before knowing if it's WCF material.

Legendary_Dork
Legendary_Dork 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @El Prez all the way to the finals. we STILL have a chip on our shoulder and are the best in the west..THERE i said it. THUNDER UP!

ssen
ssen 5pts

 @El Prez harden with 36% fg 2.2 apg 2.1 tpg wasn't much of game changer vs lakers last year.

 

As for maynor set to be RFA = no good, some team(s) might offer him back loaded contract (like with lin, fields and so on) that we won't be able to match.

He's gonna get traded because of this. Probably...

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ssen  @El Prez They cant he is a 1st rd pick so it has to have normal 4.5% raises

O O O O O O
O O O O O O 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @El Prez lol i still got us in 6 in any series, i dont give a damnnnn loool 

Bry Bry
Bry Bry 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @El Prez 

To the WCF, yes baring injuries. Finals? I just don't know.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @El Prez To the WCF?  I'd say yes.

f5alcon
f5alcon 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @justin_mia  @El Prez Even if we kept harden getting to the finals is tough so I would be happy with that result any year

OohWeeItsVelvetHoop
OohWeeItsVelvetHoop 5pts

http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/10/top-10-james-harden-moments/

dollarbillrussell
dollarbillrussell 5pts

 @OohWeeItsVelvetHoop I seriously think I might cry if I read that

supreme35
supreme35 5pts

 @OohWeeItsVelvetHoop :(

greatwhitebuffalo
greatwhitebuffalo 5pts

Anyone have a link to the presti presser?

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts

 @greatwhitebuffalo

 Here's at least part of it:

http://www.nba.com/thunder/video/2012/10/28/presti121028mov-2263072/index.html

 

 EatSleepThunder
EatSleepThunder 5pts

GO GIANTS!

bmuelle22
bmuelle22 5pts

 @EatSleepThunder right on schedule lol

bmuelle22
bmuelle22 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

You know what sucks the only teams that I'm a religious fan off to ever win a championship that I have been alive for was in MLS (Real Salt Lake). Judging by what happens tonight I've seen the Tigers lose twice in the championship series, Thunder lose once, and we all know about the Lions... Infact as of now I've only seen my teams when a grand total of 2 game combined in either championship series or games. 

Lambchop
Lambchop 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @bmuelle21 How about those Lions, Bmuelle!!!

dollarbillrussell
dollarbillrussell 5pts

 @bmuelle21 How did you end up a religious fan of teams from Salt Lake City, OKC, and Detroit?

bmuelle22
bmuelle22 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @dollarbillrussell family in OKC (second home)...one of my neighbors back in Iowa was Justin Abdelkader who now plays for the red wings and is from michigan who got me addicted to Lion's football and Tiger's baseball. I use to play football in my backyard with him against all of the other neighborhood kids and watch all the lions football games a BWW. Salt Lake City I had a friend that moved there and I went to vist and went to 3 different Real Salt Lake games and became a fan a yr before they won the championship.

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Awesome. We need more hockey on here. Great clip and the call by Gary Thorne is like no other in sport. Hockey is the quintessential team sport. My son was a defenseman and made it AAA Major Tier I before he moved on with his life. People have no idea what a tough journey it is for a kid to make it to NCAA DI hockey from this part of the country. What a young man has to give up to get there is profound. Lots of 6:00am practices in freezing cold rinks. I can't believe  the NHL is having another work stoppage. But I do plan on watching these Edmonton youngsters while they're here. People should not miss out on this rare opportunity. Edmonton has some really, really good young players.

bmuelle22
bmuelle22 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @dollarbillrussellhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQky_GkpAG8

 

here's him winning the championship in hockey for michigan state

bmuelle22
bmuelle22 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

cue EST's go Giants post lol

OohWeeItsVelvetHoop
OohWeeItsVelvetHoop 5pts

how do you think raptors will fare this season? if everything goes as planned we might have the 7-11th pick

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

I'm thinking the No. 4 pick wouldn't suck. I'm seeing the glass half full I know, but that's just the way you gotta be in sports. Sports is a microcosm of life...never easy, always a challenge. Did James Harden play for us last year? I've already moved on emotionally. This is the team we're going with and the templet for the future.

Lambchop
Lambchop 5pts

 @El Prez I would love the no 4.  Nerlens Noel?  Rudy Gobert?  Cneter is teh only decision

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

Who do we think the main asset is that we got out of this? Martin or Lamb?

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

Both--but in a different asset lense. A typical Presti hedge. Martin in the immediate to step in and fill James' points while Lamb learns how to play in the NBA--plus the Toronto pick. You put the right mix around Lamb and the guy can score. He shot friggin 68% from the field in UConn's championship run with Kemba being the focus. I see Martin as a temp per se, but one who is going to be very motivated to increase his worth.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @FreeFezzyFel/JG22 Jeremy Lamb and the Toronto 1st round pick were the deal makers, I'm guessing. 

gnaygg
gnaygg 5pts

 @justin_mia  @FreeFezzyFel/JG22 Dont forget the Dallas's pick. It can be unprotected in 2018.

rednuht
rednuht 5pts

 @gnaygg  2018 seems a really long time from now. 

dollarbillrussell
dollarbillrussell 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @justin_mia  @FreeFezzyFel/JG22 And the one year rental of a borderline elite shooting guard in a contract year, whose contract will come off the books in the summer.

Fezzy
Fezzy 5pts

 @dollarbillrussell  @justin_mia  @FreeFezzyFel/JG22 I hope it's just one year

Trackbacks

  1. In Presti we trust, or at Bennett we jeer? | Daily Thunder.com says:
    October 29, 2012 at 11:15 am

    [...] read Presti’s quotes from the news conference. He didn’t repeatedly lament the realities of the CBA. He just said [...]

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