Layne Murdoch/NBAE/Getty Images
I know, I know. The season starts for the Thunder in two days and there’s a team in place and it’s time to stop talking about James Harden. I agree.
That said, my inbox and Twitter mentions disagree. There are some lingering questions about the whole situation, some of which I’ve definitely already written about as well as all the other brilliant NBA writers have covered too. (Aside: That’s the underrated part of big, polarizing deals like this — all the awesome analysis and differing smart takes.)
So let’s try and clean this whole thing up by looking over the most popular remaining questions. And then it’s on to previewing and talking about the season at hand, I promise.
1. What would’ve happened if the Thunder wouldn’t have extended Ibaka first?
When Serge Ibaka signed his four-year, $48 million extension, many saw as the Thunder “choosing” him over Harden. As if by signing him, that eliminated their opportunity of keeping Harden.
What if the Thunder had focused on Harden first and left Ibaka to be dealt with after The Beard was handled? Well, it’s simple: If the Thunder truly weren’t willing to go into max dollar territory for Harden, then it didn’t matter. Harden and his agent drew that line in the sand from the beginning. According to a league source, Team Harden told the Thunder in July they wanted the max and if they didn’t get it, they would be looking for exactly that in restricted free agency. So the Thunder knew what they were dealing with right away. And their hope was that it was just a bluff.
So. Had they not signed Ibaka and tried to focus all attention on Harden and then failed — because they weren’t going into the four-year, $60 million range for him — then they likely wouldn’t have gotten the discount with Ibaka. Ibaka would’ve seen he was the remaining choice and pushed for all he could get, especially the Thunder would have newfound financial flexibility. By getting Ibaka done early, the Thunder actually pulled off a great move in saving money they probably wouldn’t have been able to. Ibaka was willing to flex on dollars, while Harden wasn’t. So it was only sensible to get him done while the opportunity was there.
Of course the Thunder could’ve literally “picked” Harden, in that they just signed him for the max he wanted, lowballed the hell out of Ibaka or just let him walk entirely. But if there was going to be any dream of keeping both, which was the goal all along, this was the way it had the happen. Other than just biting the bullet and paying, the Thunder really played this out as well as they could’ve. It just came down to a) them not wanting to max out and b) Harden not willing to bend.
2. Why not wait until after the season?
So this one has been gone over about 50 times, but here’s the simple answer: It would’ve been really risky. Yes, the Thunder downgraded their team, damaged their title chances and left themselves with a less talented roster for the 2012-13 campaign.
Their chances of winning a championship this season were better with James Harden than without. They weren’t just a contender, but a favorite.
But if you roll those dice and don’t win a title and Harden walks away, then Sam Presti is left holding hit hat in his hands and has made a really irresponsible long-term choice. Which as you know, would be completely against the Thunder philosophy.
What if someone got hurt? What if someone underperformed in the postseason? What if the Lakers really are that good? What if the Thunder got eliminated in the first or second round while taking their title shot while knowing they couldn’t — or wouldn’t — match on Harden in the summer? His top trade value would be mostly shot and the Thunder would miss out on what they felt was the best possible package.
If the decision was made not to play out the season and try for the title, trading him now made all the sense in the world. If you could’ve guaranteed Presti that the Thunder would be back in the Finals with Harden, he almost assuredly plays it out and takes those chances. But there are no guarantees, especially with this.
(For the record though, as I’ve said before, I’m in the play-it-out-and-see camp. You can bring ifs in to a lot of stuff, but the Thunder were very obviously close to a championship with last season’s roster and would be right there again, barring something catastrophic.)
3. Is James Harden to blame?
This has probably been the most polarizing issue about the Harden ordeal. Many feel like it’s completely ridiculous to expect Harden to have taken less money when it wasn’t his market value. While others heard all his talk of sacrifice, brotherhood and money not buying things, rightfully assuming he was going to flex some. Except he lied. I know, “athletes lie,” but that doesn’t mean it’s excused. What happens if you lie at your job? There’s no reason Harden needed to come out and say the things he said. He didn’t have to say he wasn’t only accepting the max, that he’d be willing to give something up to stay and all that junk. All he had to say was simply, “I want to stay here, but we’ll have to see how it works out.” That’s it.
Instead, he continued on, almost arrogantly claiming it would get done. Part of me wonders if this was a ploy from Team Harden to put more pressure on the Thunder to pony up the max. With Harden teeing the situation up as a done deal, he was putting a bunch of confidence in fans meaning the Thunder would have to do major damage control if it didn’t get done.
Harden’s not to blame for being “greedy” necessarily. It’s just that he said one thing publicly and did another behind closed doors.
That said, I do want to talk about this weird discussion surrounding a player getting his and the scolding going on from some writers when others suggest otherwise. What people don’t realize is that Harden potentially chose money over happiness. Not many people recommend taking the job that pays great over the one that pays less but you love. In regular life, you’re supposed to follow your heart. In the NBA, you’re supposed to follow the benjamins, which makes no sense to me. Again, his life, his career, his money. But if I had an offer to move to Atlanta where I was going to make more money — when I was already doing really well here — loved my job, lived close to friends and had everything I could want, I think some would question me following the money. Right?
Harden could’ve stayed for a simple $4.5 million less. Yes, you’re asking Harden to give up millions when Clay Bennett has billions. But Bennett is only potentially losing money here via the tax. Harden is making money regardless. Bennett doesn’t necessarily make money on Harden’s deal, but will almost assuredly lose it. Bennett made a big time commitment to go as far as he did. The Thunder were going to pay the tax. They just wanted to something back from Harden and I don’t think it was unreasonable to ask that when other players already did the same.
4. Why could Houston offer Harden $25 million more?
Technically, they can’t. People love tossing that number out but it’s a total manipulation. What the Thunder could offer was a four-year, $60 million offer. Houston potentially can offer a five-year, close to $80 million deal. Why? Because you can only have one five-year max player per collective bargaining agreement and the Thunder already used that extension on Russell Westbrook. (Aside: The Thunder actually have two five-year extension guys, but that’s because KD signed his under the previous CBA.)
So while Houston could offer the extra year, they couldn’t technically offer more money. Just an extra season of guaranteed money. To say it’s $25 million more would be ignoring the fact that Harden isn’t going to retire after his contract expired in OKC. He was going to get another deal. Maybe not max worthy, but it’s deceiving to say Houston was offering $25 million more than OKC could.
5. Why didn’t the Thunder amnesty Kendrick Perkins?
There’s some serious confusion here about this. That play from the Thunder wasn’t a factor this season, because Harden wasn’t going to be making his max money until 2013-14. Which of course is when the more punitive tax would kick in. So it would make no sense to amnesty Perk now because it had no impact on the tax line. I suppose it could’ve been used as a preemptive move, but then you’d be without your starting center for really no good reason.
That move could’ve been deployed next offseason, and definitely might’ve happened, had Harden accepted his contract. But with the Thunder headed into the tax regardless with their offer to Harden, it doesn’t seem like they were that concerned about it anyway. What the Thunder were most concerned about was handcuffing themselves with four highly paid players and three max guys. That was more of the issue than the actual tax bill. So while Perk might’ve gotten that amnesty call, it really didn’t have any direct relation to the negotiations.





http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/10/practice-report-thabeet-is-on/
Scott Brooks: "What Thabeet has shown over the last four or five weeks, we feel confident that he can do a very good job for us."
@OBoy Jones III YEEEEAAH
@OBoy Jones III I told the basketball universe that I was sorry for my sins yesterday, that I learned my lesson... why am I still being subjected to Hasheem Thabeet? Is my recompense incomplete?
DarnellMayberry "it won't work like that when you're in a traditional offense." 10/30/12 4:51 PM
@tydude The interesting thing about Harden and Lin is they both enjoyed their greatest success because they were each finally given the freedom to run the show. Will they be more dynamic together or hurt each other?
DarnellMayberry Barkley on Harden "Being instant offense off the bench where they're going to give you the ball every time and you're the dominant scorer... 10/30/12 4:51 PM
DarnellMayberry Barkley on PTI: "I love the Oklahoma City trade. I think that trade made them better. I'm a Kevin Martin and a Jeremy Lamb fan." 10/30/12 4:46 PM
@tydude Wait until he finds out Kevin Martin isn't a post scorer.
@tydude Exactly. For one, people are REALLY underselling Kevin Martin. This is a smooth scorer who might ultimately fit in better with Durant and Westbrook because he is a spot up shooter.
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@ou_sas @MisterJohnsonOKC @Tronchaser @ThunderStruck2412 @tydude
Come to think of it, there isn't a scorer out there who didn't score on us. All of them did.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @Tronchaser @ThunderStruck2412 @tydude JET. D<
@MisterJohnsonOKC @ThunderStruck2412 @tydude He is one of the Thunder killers, like Nick "I make buckets" Young.
@tydude Barkley picked against the Thunder in every round last year. Entertaining yes, knowledgeable not so much.
@tydude I didn't expect him to say that..
@S4TISF4CTION @tydude I find it hilarious. We just became even more reliant at jump shots.
@justin_mia @ThunderStruck2412 @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude
I agree, so I wonder if this makes him a better fit with Westbrook?
@justin_mia @ThunderStruck2412 @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude they got two guys that can contribute this year
@MisterJohnsonOKC @justin_mia @ThunderStruck2412 @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude Harden's efficiency will drop this season but will pick up the next season cause he'll be forced to improve his midrange shot..
@MisterJohnsonOKC @ThunderStruck2412 @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude His efficiency from lat season can drop 5 percentage points and he'd still be one of the most efficient wings in the league.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @ThunderStruck2412 @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude His efficiency will surely drop some.
@justin_mia @MisterJohnsonOKC @ThunderStruck2412 @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude
The real difference between Harden and Martin is that Martin is who he is, and James has several more years to improve.
@MisterJohnsonOKC @ThunderStruck2412 @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude Harden has 874 3PA. I like to see 1000 before I make judgment on a three point shooter, but I'd feel safe saying they are comparable from long distance.
@ThunderStruck2412 @justin_mia @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude Doesn't the fact that Martin doesn't need the ball but can score with great efficiency dictate that he should start?
@ThunderStruck2412 @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude Yup, the difference is that Harden is elite off the ball and on the ball, while Martin is only elite off the ball.
@ThunderStruck2412 @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude Martin and Harden shot identical spot up 3pt% last season. Their career 3pt% is about even.
@justin_mia @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude He's a better spot up shooter. Doesn't demand the ball or pound the ball. Different offense.
@ThunderStruck2412 @alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude He shoots more jumpers than Harden, so... the one thing he's much better than Harden at is mid-range shooting.
@alvarex @S4TISF4CTION @tydude You know, except the fact Martin has been top percentage in the league at getting to the free throw line most of his career
@tydude I don't think better now. Better soon though
I hope OKC brings back that Spurs-series passing.
@SilenceTheLambs It's not gonna happen without Harden to facilitate it...
trollface
@SilenceTheLambs That would be nice, along with some improved defense and we'll be alright.
Barkley likes the trade. Somewhat surprised at that.
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@MisterJohnsonOKC @Aren't Barkley has some lucid moments. He's better than Grant Long.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8570097/serge-ibaka-improve-thunder-continue-contend-nba-championship
I know I'm late but really??? Proves my point about infatuation with OKC.
Id rather get an enema than re-read Bill Simmons article today. BTW, can anyone verify that we didnt offer harden a no-trade clause? I think Bill is just jumping to conclusions and he also assumes Harden didnt perceive beign traded to Houston as a threat. I feel like he's talking out of his ass.
@chifro63 we cant, you have to be in the league 8 years to get a no trade clause
@f5alcon I always forget that you're willing to legitimately answer someone's questions. Kudos to you for helpfulness.
@f5alcon @Jax Raging Bile Duct I try to split the difference between helpfulness and trolling. XD
@Jax Raging Bile Duct thanks, it isn't that hard on here, not like some other places that I post on which are troll filled.
@f5alcon Thanks. I thought we werent allowed to. Lol @ Amenema
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@MisterJohnsonOKC @chifro63 Did somebody call?
@Barry Amenema @MisterJohnsonOKC @chifro63
See? :)
@chifro63 y u mad tho?
@Jax Raging Bile Duct @chifro63
I just know Barry is typing a comment. Do you know how long he's probably waited for 'enema' to come up in casual conversation on here?
I love 2k cuz im playing my player on the pistons and Charlie Villanueva is somehow locking KD down
Less than 2 hours into the NBA season officially begins.
@Skyline Nothing starts off a season like a Cavs and Wizards matchup!
@rednuht @Skyline Are Irving and Wall both hurt LOL
@SilenceTheLambs @Skyline Wall and Nene I think. Jordan Crawford will probably shoot it 40 times and make 12.