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Tuesday Bolts – 10.30.12

by Royce Young on October 30, 2012 at 8:11 am 573 Comments

Beckley Mason of HoopSpeak: “Welcome to the future you’ve created, James, and perhaps to looking back and wondering “what if.” Thank goodness only my family and a few friends have probably ever even considered my brief post-grad life and wondered how else it might have gone. Harden’s choice will be endlessly analyzed by strangers, possibly for years to come. We know he made a life-changing decision, but we know almost nothing about the life to come. Being 23 is all about learning to live with all the doors that, as time advances, close around you even as the future blossoms. If James Harden doesn’t already know that, he will soon. His career is in rarified air, miles high. He’s made his decision and taken control of his career. Here’s hoping he makes the most of it.”

Tom Ziller of SB Nation on Harden and money: “I’m not James Harden, but I know he was asked to give up $6 million for the good of a very small collective, and he said no, and that’s good enough for me. He’s going to get even more money as a result. That’s good enough for me. I’m going to stay out of his wallet and reject the idea that I would do it differently, because I wouldn’t. Chances are, no matter how strongly you object to Harden’s decision, you wouldn’t either. Be honest with yourself, and the truth will set you free.”

Ken Berger of CBSSports.com has KD winning MVP: “Durant was my pick even before GM Sam Presti decided to trade Harden to Houston because Presti couldn’t meet the dynamic wing’s contract demands. And as much as it appears that LeBron has a stranglehold on the MVP trophy, Durant is at a point in his career where significant leaps in productivity and dominance remain very much within reach. Plus, with Harden gone, OKC will rely even more on Durant for scoring, which will only help his MVP resume.”

Lee Jenkins in SI.com’s predictions: “I had the Thunder a week ago, but without James Harden, it will be more difficult for them to secure home-court advantage, which is so crucial to their chances. They are still much deeper than the Lakers, but the margin is not what it was, and their two-and-a-half stars will have to match up with L.A.’s four. The Lakers, as evidenced by their 0-8 preseason, will require time to find a rhythm. But now the Thunder will need an acclimation period as well. The Lakers, who have proved they can win on the road in the playoffs, will work out the kinks by April. They have the experience, the motivation and the surplus of late-game options to thrive in the postseason. They also have the size and point-guard savvy to face down the Heat in an epic Finals.”

Jesse Blanchard of 48 Minutes of Hell: “With contract negotiations breaking down over a max contract extension the small market Thunder could ill-afford, general manager Sam Presti sent Harden to the Houston Rockets for a comparable but less versatile scorer, an intriguing prospect, and cap space and flexibility to adjust its roster in the future. In doing so, Presti moved the now popular Oklahoma City Thunder model a little further away from its San Antonio Spurs origins. After all, even against the cap in his last contract season, the Spurs never had to trade their own Manu Ginobili. Now in probably Ginobili’s last contract season, the Spurs likely never will.”

Simmons and Zach Lowe talking Harden.

Darnell Mayberry: “My second impression of Martin after a media scrum interviewed him for the first time today: “What a pleasure!” Martin is actually a player who’s unafraid to express himself in the media. He’s an effective communicator, he’s introspective and he’s comfortable in his own skin. In other words, he’s an adult. And that’s so refreshing to have on this team among a bunch of young 20-somethings who are overly cautious of not crossing the company line.”

Replacements for Harden’s beard.

Brett Koremenos for Grantland on OKC’s signature set: “Though Durant can definitely improve as a playmaker, the top-of-the key iso will still be OKC’s go-to action at the end of quarters and games. And despite the rise of empirical data shedding light on the inefficiencies of hero-ball ploys like this, there will still be plenty of anxious coaches when the Thunder call this play with a game on the line.”

John Hollinger of ESPN.com revises his predictions: “Keeping Martin’s other adjustments the same (dings for injury proneness and defense), using my standard rookie score for Jeremy Lamb (here, I leave my ad-libs out of it and estimate a performance based purely on draft position) and tweaking minutes for other players to adjust for the Thunder likely playing a bit more smallball, and I end up at 54 wins for the Thunder. That’s a four-win drop, and at the margin you can see the impact this might have on their title chances — 58 wins screams contender, while 54 hints more meekly at the chance of a deep playoff run. While it doesn’t affect their projected seeding at all, the Thunder grade out as a less-formidable regular-season outfit, and that carries over to how well they project for the postseason, too.”

Beckley Mason of TrueHoop looking at Kevin Martin’s efficiency: “While he won’t replace Harden’s individual playmaking, he will absolutely be able to capitalize on mismatches and opportunities created by his explosive teammates. With Harden there was always the sense that he was being held back by virtue of the amount Westbrook handled the ball. That’s rare for a shooting guard, but then only Manu Ginobili and Kobe Bryant share Harden’s playmaking acumen as shooting guards. In Kevin Martin, the Thunder have a less dynamic player, but a tremendous scorer. It will be on Eric Maynor, Westbrook and Durant to pick up the playmaking slack.”

Harden’s full introductory press conference where Daryl Morey acts really weird.

Dave Zirin of The Nation on small markets: “While Harden is slammed and Presti cries the tears of the crocodile, Bennett gets to be the Bain Capital of owners: harvesting teams for profits and then throwing away their dried husks when profit margins are under any kind of threat. David Stern will retire in February 2014, but his legacy will be felt for decades to come, and it’s a legacy that has cultivated a coterie of owners that put fans and communities last. The Harden trade is just a symptom of the disease.”

Matt Moore of CBSSports.com: “At the end of the day, this whole thing might as well have been scripted. There’s an uncertain future for how the Thunder go forward, where Houston goes from here, what Harden’s career will look like and if anyone will regret this trade went down. But from the position of where all three parties were, there was never a choice, never an option. This was what had to happen.”

Serge Ibaka tweets: “So, No electricity in NYC? #LiKEinCongo”

Marc Stein of ESPN.com with new power rankings: “The Thunder certainly got a lot back for Harden, but something they surrendered in Saturday night’s blockbuster trade that wasn’t mentioned in the press release is a chunk of chemistry/continuity edge they had over L.A. Which is why OKC just dipped two spots.”

Exchanging emails with Rahut Huq of Red 94: “In a winning culture like Oklahoma City’s, in a contract year, there’s no doubt Martin will do as he is told. I expect him to thrive this season with the Thunder – he’s looked better than ever this preseason, even exerting effort on the defensive end. Few players in history have been able to get on base like Martin. It became a regular thing at Toyota Center to look up and see a ’25′ spot next to Martin’s name after wondering where he had been all night. Martin can handle, but he can’t really create, even for himself. He gets his shots early and quickly, baiting defenders with fakes, spotting up inside, or driving in either direction for a fading bank off the glass. He likes contact. One of Martin’s best traits is that he works quickly. This is not a ball stopper. On the other hand, Kevin Martin will not be scoring off his own dribble against pressure defense. That’s not his game. I’m most curious to see how he fares in the postseason when officials swallow their whistles and he is bailed out less often.”

Clark Matthews of The Lost Ogle: ” For all the lip service fans pay to saying they understand it’s a business, this is the first experience with actually seeing the Thunder run like a business. The relationship with players that resembled those with college athletes–who rarely leave unless they are no longer welcome–has crumbled. It will be interesting to see how the sudden maturing of the Thunder fans manifests.”

Categories
Bolts
Previous Post Hello New People: Kevin Martin and Jeremy Lamb introduced
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Thunderman
Thunderman 5pts

Dave Zirin = idiot

ssen
ssen 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8570097/serge-ibaka-improve-thunder-continue-contend-nba-championship

interesting piece by Zach Love

Tronchaser
Tronchaser 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Royce on WWLS right now!

Crow
Crow 5pts

post any surprise statements

Tronchaser
Tronchaser 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @Crow Nothing exciting....at all.  I find it interesting that the media now uses Royce as one of it's sources.  I like it.

Crow
Crow 5pts

Thanks for the reports.

Tronchaser
Tronchaser 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Crow Royce leans towards LA to win the West now.

Tronchaser
Tronchaser 5pts

 @Crow No surprises so far. Presti talked to PHX, GSW etc...

Crow
Crow 5pts

Harder to see why the Warriors would make a big play for Harden. Presti probably approached them.

GAP
GAP 5pts

 @Prestiguacamole  @Tronchaser  @Crow Harrison Barnes would've been nice....

TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard
TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Tronchaser @Crow wonder who GSW offered. They've got tons of tradeable assets.

Tronchaser
Tronchaser 5pts

 @Crow Apparently the Thunder players are poor tippers.

OBoy
OBoy 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Tronchaser  @Crow i hear alot of stories about thunder players and tipping...really stupid lol

Tronchaser
Tronchaser 5pts

 @Crow *some

DXL
DXL 5pts

Total haul from the Harden trade: a top 60 NBA player (Martin ranked 42nd by ESPN in 2011, and 76th in 2012 after a down year), 2 lottery picks, a low first round pick and the 31st pick in the upcoming draft.

 

Has there been a larger return for a traded star player in recent NBA history?

[censored]
[censored] 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @DXL Ray Allen got a top 5 pick but he was better than Harden is now at the time.  Garnett got a bigger haul but Minnesota did not draft wisely with the picks. Deron Williams brought in a lot more for Utah, don't think that's up for debate.  All three of those guys were more highly regarded than Harden is now though.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @DXL Lakers traded Shaq for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, couple of picks.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @DXL It's tough to find a comparable trade, a guy traded before his rookie scale ended.

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Martin actually has the 23rd best offensive rating (efficiency) of all-time.

OBoy
OBoy 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @DXL the return for Carmelo was much better.

DXL
DXL 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @OBoy Jones III The haul for Carmelo: Gallinari, Chandler, Felton, Mozgov, 2014 Knicks pick.

 

Gallinari is a very nice piece, Chandler is okay, and Felton and Mozgov are marginal players. The Knicks pick will probably not be a lottery pick. Was it really that good a return?

OBoy
OBoy 5pts

 @DXL lol i guess looking at it now it doesn't look that great. 

SexyWatt
SexyWatt 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @OBoy Jones III  @DXL

 I didn't realize we were putting Harden in the same league as Melo.  Don't get me wrong i don't like Melo but he has always been the star, Harden has only been the 3rd option so far, so why would we expect to get the same return?

SexyWatt
SexyWatt 5pts

 @OBoy Jones III  @DXL

 haha ok :) my bad.  I thought you were saying you thought we should get the same.

OBoy
OBoy 5pts

 @sexywatt  @DXL the question was "Has there been a larger return for a traded star player in recent NBA history?"

Aren't
Aren't 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

I blame this whole trade and our Finals loss on the fact that me and a friend bought Western Conference Finals shirts after we beat the Spurs in game six...worst mistake of my entire life. I'm sorry guys...

rednuht
rednuht 5pts

 @Aren't You and the other 100,000 people who bought those same shirts are absolutely to blame.

SexyWatt
SexyWatt 5pts

So why is it that we played in the Finals last year and yet we can't get a game on opening night?  Am i the only one who feels a little disrespected by that?

KellOne
KellOne 5pts

 @sexywatt Considering the circumstances, we are probably better with a couple days more practice with the new guys.

SexyWatt
SexyWatt 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @KellOne

 That is true.  I'm just tired of waiting.

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

they have Christmas vs Heat. That is probably bigger.

SexyWatt
SexyWatt 5pts

 @Crow

 is it too much to ask for both? haha

cleandoe
cleandoe 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @sexywatt becoz LLLLAAAAAKKKEEEEEEERRZZZZZ 

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

I am trying to see if I can talk myself into and figure out the prediction. The only thing I got solid so far is that I think that there will one or none western teams over 55 wins.

rednuht
rednuht 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Crow More importantly do we beat the Lakers, Clippers and Heat in those 55 wins or did we just protect home court and beat up on inferior teams?

SexyWatt
SexyWatt 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @rednuht  @Crow

 it seems like you have been extremely down on the Thunder since the trade happened.  Its kind of depressing

Crow
Crow 5pts

 @Prestiguacamole  @Crow Interesting. I was somewhat surprised when the Spurs released him and Josh Powell. i thought they would keep one.

TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard
TheresABabyFaceUnderMyBeard 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Crow Wes Witherspoon would really give me a shot of life. So far, the Thunder have drafted, traded for, or picked up most of my favorite players from before they were Thunder players (Durant, Harden, Maynor most notably). Witherspoon would hit even closer to home since one of my closest friends happens to be his older sister.

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Don't like Fesenko? look at Wesley Witherspoon, Brockman, Ely, Whiteside, Alabi etc.

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

If Cole jumps out as a 9pts 6 rebs guy with decent defense, the trade will look a bit worse.

 

I have to believe the Thunder will sign another big man eventually, even just for insurance.

 

Fesenko trying to sway Atlanta. I'd bring him in for a look if he'd come.

SexyWatt
SexyWatt 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @rednuht  @Crow

 I think the trade was good for us.  Maybe i just have my thunder blinders on.

rednuht
rednuht 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @sexywatt  @Crow I'm a little depressed. I mentioned earlier it's going to take watching the guys play again before I can stop thinking of what this trade means.

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @sexywatt  @rednuht Not extremely down in terms of wins, but a little. Down on championship prospects but I was lower than most anyways. Mainly I just think there are a lot of teams who could go 50-55.

Crow
Crow 5pts

 @rednuht I dunno. Seems pretty wide open amongst the top 4-6 contenders for 2nd and 3rd. Nobody but the Heat looks killer to me.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Crow What do you think of Denver.

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @justin_mia I don't have a strong feeling. Probably 4th or 5th.

SeanzieCrews
SeanzieCrews 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@ThunderChick2010 I'm changing my predictions post Harden trade and post Kevin Love injury. Thanks :) 1. OKC (still) 2. San Antonio 3. LAL 4. LAC 5. Denver 6. Memphis 7. Minnesota 8. Houston

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Crow  @ThunderChick2010  @Tronchaser  @justin_mia 

(I have that effect on people.)

:)

rednuht
rednuht 5pts

 @justin_mia  @Crow If Dallas struggles enough during the first half of the season I could envision Cuban shutting down Dirk and going for a lottery pick.

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @ThunderChick2010  @Tronchaser  @justin_mia I didn't take you as pouting. But between my insecurity and trying to please, I guess I went with the latter.

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Crow  @Tronchaser  @justin_mia 

Thanks!  I really wasn't pouting though.

(Well, not much.)

rednuht
rednuht 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Crow  @Tronchaser  @justin_mia I envision a very tight race between OKC and LAC in those standings to the point that if we have injuries we could be the sixth seed.

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

 @Tronchaser  @justin_mia What the hell. This is what I came up with at the moment:

 

1SAS

2LAL

3OKC

4DEN

5LAC

6MEM

7UT

8GSW

Tronchaser
Tronchaser 5pts

 @justin_mia  @Crow I think the signing of Eddie Curry put them over the top.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Crow Same thought on Dallas.  Carlisle is a good coach and they'll get Dirk back eventually.

Crow
Crow 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @justin_mia I am tempted to put both GSW and Utah in there but don't feel safe eliminating Dallas yet.

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