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A few NBA coaches have said it before. There’s really never been a Kevin Durant before. Never really been a near seven-footer that had a silky outside touch, a killer handle, outstanding athleticism and a deadly first step. And that is actually good, not just advertised as such. Durant’s sort of a one-of-a-kind.
But what is he? When he began his rookie season, P.J. Carlesimo was trying him as a shooting guard, believe it or not. Once Scott Brooks took over, he immediately made a change and currently on the depth chart, KD’s listed as a small forward. But as his game matures and develops, Durant walks up and down the NBA’s traditional positions. He’s played mostly 3, quite a bit of power forward, some point guard/forward and even a touch of center in unique circumstances.
The NBA has been going through something of a positional revolution the past few years, at least in the sense that everyone is catching on to the idea that labeled positions are a bit archaic. Putting a “C” or “PG” next to a guy’s name doesn’t make him such. Basketball is a free-flowing, open-ended game where players interchange positions constantly. It’s a bit like soccer in the sense that just because a guy is a midfielder doesn’t mean he has to stay as that. If there’s an opportunity for him to get down the left wing or maybe he moves up as a center forward, he does it. Sure, for the most part he drops into his traditional midfield slot, but just because the media guide says you play there doesn’t mean you stay there for the 90 minutes.
Same in basketball. Soccer is definitely more open-ended than basketball and when Durant drops down as a power forward, it’s a bit more structured. The same principle applies though. And so the question remains, what is he?
David Thorpe of ESPN.com is taking a look at positions in the NBA and kicks it off by using Durant as his example:
Oklahoma City Thunder small forward Kevin Durant is anything but small.
At 6-foot-9, with a wingspan of 7-foot-5, Durant is one of the NBA’s most prolific scorers. By contrast, Hall of Fame center Moses Malone barely stood 6-foot-10 during his salad days, only a scant inch taller than Durant, and yet, their games appear vastly different. One was a bruising interior player whose stockiness begged for high contact, the other is a lithe perimeter shooter with incredible length who avoids contact. Malone was clearly a center, but Durant is neither small nor a forward.
So what is Durant? He’s changed the way we define NBA positions, that’s what.
Gone are the days when positions are defined strictly by a player’s size. There are no absolutes left to define what position a player has to play. For more than two decades we have labeled players as simply point guards (1), shooting guards (2), small forwards (3), power forwards (4), and centers (5). However, over the years we have seen an evolution away from those labels and towards specialties, as well as some generalizations.
Yes, it sounds confusing, and indeed it can be for both players and teams who struggle to figure out where to play a player. Labels like “tweener” and questions such as “Is he a ’3′ or a ’4′?” are commonplace. But they shouldn’t be. Smart coaches and well-run teams embrace this combination of both general and specific needs and work to feature potent combinations of both.
Positional versatility in today’s NBA is gold. The goal for any NBA coach is to create favorable matchups for his team. Whether it’s by putting more talent on the floor than the other team, finding a positional advantage or exposing the weakness of the other team’s five players, you want to find an edge.
But you also want to have your best players out there. It’s one thing to go small and speedy to try and make your opponent take their best big man off the floor, but if your guys aren’t any good, it doesn’t do any good. You saw Scott Brooks control matchups in both the Lakers and Spurs series last postseason. Both those teams couldn’t figure out a way to counter OKC’s small lineups without sacrificing their best players. The Lakers had Pau Gasol chasing either Durant or Thabo Sefolosha around at times, while Andrew Bynum sat. And then of course the Heat put it right back the Thunder’s face in the Finals as Serge Ibaka stumbled around the perimeter trying to cover Shane Battier.
Another great point from Thorpe that definitely applies to OKC: Just because a player is a “shooting guard” doesn’t mean he can shoot. Thabo’s literal position would probably be “WD” (wing defender). His job isn’t to shoot, but to stop the other team’s best perimeter player from doing so.
Brooks has always said he doesn’t consider James Harden to be a shooting guard, but more of just simply a guard. Basically, a shorter player that doesn’t everything that a point guard or shooting guard would do. A combo guard, as some would say.
There are defined positions in basketball essentially for accounting purposes. We need to know where to place players. We need to have a label to stick on them for All-Star Game selections, for All-NBA teams, for top 10 lists, for Bleacher Report sideshows. But that doesn’t mean that within the flow of a 48-minute basketball game that those positions actually exist. On paper, yes. On the court while Durant seamlessly glides between handling the ball, to defending Gasol, to knocking down a 3, to posting up, he’s just a well-rounded, and tall, basketball player.






http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/10/bobcats-vs-thunder-open-thread/
http://live.drjays.com/index.php/2012/10/16/russell-westbrook-gets-his-own-jordan-brand-x-9five-glasses/
@ILikePancakes Sharing the swag
@ILikePancakes When/if they start selling those to the public, I'm going to need someone to get a pair for me. Lol
There are some lower level sideline (sec 114) seats for as low as $35 on stubhub right now if anyone is wanting to get some great seats tonight for cheap.
What is Kevin Durant? My favorite player, of course. ;-)
bit.ly/c7VG9P
did anyone request they cable or satellite company to get Comcast Sports for Rockets game after hearing them begging us like 100 times during the 1st game
Let's define a few things (for my sake)
A Tweener is: someone who can play and effectively guard multiple positions
A stretch four: a PF who is capable of guarding his position but can also spread the court with a long jumper or three pt shot consistently.
Is this correct?
@Bsooreal I think tweener is more of a negative connotation, i.e. a player who has a combination of skills that makes it difficult to fit them into an established archetype, or fit them into a lineup without having offensive, or defensive issues. Green was a tweener - play him at SF and he's too slow to guard fast players and he can't shoot to stretch the floor, play him at PF and he can't rebound.
@Bsooreal 'Combo guard' or 'combo forward' are the good terms, I think.
@justin_mia
Thank you!
@Bsooreal A player who has skills that transcend one or more positions and allow some overlap without giving the other team advantages. Like Shawn Marion, who could capably play either forward position without giving up an advantage for the most part.
does that make Thabo a tweener?
are we now hoping PJ3 can be a tweener?
who is ready for tonight game pre-season game
@tydude I'll be there with a Keri Russell look-a-like.
@Tronchaser @tydude
before or after felicity?
@Bsooreal @tydude I'm a sucker for the big hair.
@Tronchaser @tydude
you sir..... just got a "like"
@Bsooreal @tydude Big hair Felicity.
@tydude Not Perkins.
@Jooseppi @tydude
or thabo
...Durant is a sf, yea he can try to play small ball but he can't bang in the interior with the bigs...Hell even Lebron tried to guard Pau and he looked worn out before the 4th quarter..Rasheed Wallace was the one who could play the 3, 4 or 5 and effectively guard all of them with great success.. No other player comes to mind other than him right now
@kennygee90 I don't care how scrawny Kevin Durant is, he can man handle Pau Gasol, AKA the softest player in the game of basketball.
@Bryson umm no he can't..
@kennygee90 @OBoymuzik @Bryson He can probably against most PFs, but not most centers
@kennygee90 @OBoymuzik @Bryson See I can troll too :)
@kennygee90 @OBoymuzik @Bryson You're not really comparing the greatest scorer in the history of that game to Pau Gasoft are you? One is a top 3 player all time, one is a teddy bear. You're right, its a mismatch and a big one.
@OBoymuzik @Bryson ok , i'll check it out
@kennygee90 @Bryson He did and was fine, wouldn't say he manhandled him though.
@OBoymuzik @Bryson I can't recall him guarding Gasol in the post..probably cause of Mike brown's dumb offense..but there's no way he can guard him inside...thats a mismatch and a big one
@kennygee90 @Bryson He played a lot of 4 vs Gasol in the playoffs.
Thabo’s literal position would probably be “WD” (wing defender).
They should change the starting line-up announcements...."At Wing Defender, #2, Thabot Sefolooooooosha!" hilarious.
NBA defenses are sometimes slow to react. The book on defending Westbrook last season was largely to go under screens and force the mid-range jump shot. Do teams rethink that? Do big men hedge stronger, especially when the roll man is Perkins? Are the coaches working with Westbrook to be prepared for a potential change? Some might be dumb enough to continually go over screens.
@Jooseppi The only time I saw a team straight up stop Westbrook (IE, he didn't just have an off night) were the Heat during the regular season. They defended Westbrook the same as everyone else (go under the screen) until he reached the paint. At that point Bosh would jump out at Westbrook and cut him off.
It hurt his mid-range jump shot, and to my memory he never successfully went around Bosh, since Westbrook already started his gather at the top of the key. That would leave an open man under the basket, but for that one game atleast it worked great at stopping Westbrook.
@alvarex A lot of teams don't have a big that will step out that far, either because they are uncomfortable with it or aren't quick enough to get back. Bynum is a good example here. Philly is going to have to defend it a lot differently than some team like Atlanta, where Horford is more than comfortable jumping out and staying on the perimeter player until it is safe to switch back. Bosh is somewhere in between.
Hate to intrude but . . .
Fantasy Draft.
Thursday 25th October 2012. NEXT THURSDAY
7:00pm CT.
Be there or be laughed at. Yeah. We be like that.
WEST-----------------------EAST
cleandoe (✓)--------------ou_sas (✓)
cemitten (✓)----------------AllDae
f5alcon (✓) -----------------Patrick OKC
S4TISF4CTION(✓)--------bmuelle21
EatSleepThunder(✓)-----BrockSuede
motacular------------------OBoymuzik (✓)
bsooreal (✓)------------------Tricia_Status(✓)
Iceberg Slim----------------Snowflake (✓)
Watson-----------------------Tydude (✓)
ThunderBelize (✓)-------------ConcreteThunder
Please contact me or cleandoe so I'm not just guessing.
Make sure you do especially if there is any trouble.
(✓) = Can attend. (x) = Can't attend. None = No contact
Plus from now up to the draft I'd like you to be checking DT for updates daily. Maybe in the mornings so you don't have to wait for me to come on. Thanks :)
THAT'S NEXT THURSDAY IF YOU DIDN'T REALISE
WHEN? NEXT THURSDAY!
--
ya boy, cleandoe
I'm going to have to get new members if you haven't replied by the end of Sunday. So if you're on the lookout make sure you have Thursday 7pm free.
Reply and I'll make a shortlist. Leave ou_sas' D-League for this NBA
Is that fair?
@cleandoe Let me know. I'd love to come up from the D-League...been preparing for this moment for awhile
@cleandoe I can attend.
Durant is a SF who can slide to PF if certain matchups present themselves. 'Positional revolution' is a bit too strong a term I think for what's going on. Players like Durant (who are capable of playing more than one position) have been around forever. Durant's moved 'up' in position as he's gotten older and stronger. SG has never meant that the player can shoot, either. It's just the positional label - some say 'off guard' since it's traditionally the guard that didn't handle the ball all the time. The reason that Durant is a SF is because that's where most of the other players are who can defend him and vice versa. None of this is new stuff...
@justin_mia What's the difference between JH and a initiator PG?
@Lost Ones My point is these things have existed for years. It's not new. There have been SG's that handle the ball a lot, forwards who shoot from the outside, etc. This doesn't make positions obsolete, but if you're going to say 'a SG is a SG is a SG' without making further distinction that's dumb no matter what era you're in.
However, I have plenty of need for help with punctuation and phrasing.
@justin_mia I guess it's just a difference of viewpoint. I'm looking at it in terms of needing these flexible players to allow for the experimental lineups, thus making them fill the role of new positions while you are looking at it in terms of despite the new role they can still fit the traditional positions.
Makes sense. I have no further disagreement.
Before the Perk trade and when our defense was acceptable. We would switch absolutely everything. Now this isn't a novel concept but it was more efficient than it would have been with a lumbering center and a weak pg. A team full of blurred position players allowed for that rotation and switching. Russ getting matched up against a 3 in the post isn't as devastating as it would be with Nash. KD on a center was bad but livable. KD on a pg bad but livable. Especially with 4 other athletes that could help.
@cemitten The game is always changing at a team level, but the idea that positions are obsolete or there's a revolution of positions isn't new to me. Teams have become more experimental constructing lineups, that's for sure.
@justin_mia The change isn't so much what players do on the individual level but what the group on the floor consists of. For example the heat running lebron at point ,chalmers at 2, wade at 3, Battier at 4, and bosh at 5. Thats creating a new style of play based of these in between skill sets of players.
You are looking at it on an individual level more than team wide it seems. If you had press corners who bumped the receiver then pealed off and played the run letting super athletic linebackers cover the rest of the way thats a whole new style of defense. (Not saying this is totally realistic just an example.) These players would fit a standard mold but play it in such a way the team was different or new.
@Lost Ones No there isn't. There are distinctions you can make between players that play the same position. In baseball are you going to make new positions for pitching who throw breaking stuff versus players who throw hard? In football do you want a position for press corners vs. cover corners? East-West running backs vs. Downhill runners? No. It's just the variance that exists between every player.
@justin_mia I agree with your statement, but there is realistically more than five positions.
@justin_mia What's the difference between RW and a SG like eric gordon who is capable of running point as well?
@justin_mia What's the difference between a stretch 4 and a tweener ?
@Lost Ones @justin_mia A stretch four is a power forward with traditional power forward attributes, physical and otherwise, that has range. A tweener is a player whose attributes, physical and otherwise, don't really fit the three or the four. Usually is a player undersized at the four and too slow for three.
@justin_mia While Marion is a good example of a tweener, most tweeners don't really work out. A guy like Lazar is also a tweener. He just can't defend either position. He still gets rebounds and can shoot inside, so his offensive skillset is roughly that of a miniature power forward with a decent handle. On the defensive end, he's too short to be a good post defender and he's too slow to be a good wing defender.
@SeanzieCrews @Lost Ones @Jooseppi He could defend either position, and rebound.
@SeanzieCrews @Lost Ones @Jooseppi Played PF for several seasons, played SF for several.
@SeanzieCrews @Lost Ones @Jooseppi Shawn Marion.
@justin_mia @Lost Ones @Jooseppi So who would be a good example of a 3/4 tweener in your opinion? Or do they even exist? I saw you mention something about player variances which I believe is a valid point.
@SeanzieCrews @Lost Ones @Jooseppi He's a SF.
@justin_mia @Lost Ones @Jooseppi Which is why I said Jeff Green would be a tweener, he's not really either. Yet when he plays and you try to define his position, it is either a '3' or a '4.'
@Lost Ones @SeanzieCrews @Jooseppi We played Green (a SF) at PF. Teams do that. Some teams have the luxury of doing it better than others, like the Magic who played a SF at PF (Rashard Lewis). They happened to have a big eraser behind him that let them do that successfully. The Heat played a SF at PF against us (Shane Battier).
@Lost Ones @justin_mia Or there should be. I typed and instead. Eggbrain, Jooseppi.
@Lost Ones @SeanzieCrews @Jooseppi But Jeff Green is not a PF. I think that had been pretty well established during his tenure in OKC. You can play Mullens at PG, that doesn't make him a PG. Green could not defend his position.
@SeanzieCrews @Jooseppi @justin_mia depending on the system/coach JG can be seen as a stretch four they're interchangeable depending on the scheme.
@Lost Ones @justin_mia There's an "or" there.
@Jooseppi @justin_mia not necessarily there have/are plenty of PF without the physical attributes.
@Jooseppi @Lost Ones @justin_mia Tweener = Jeff Green. Stretch four = Ryan Anderson