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OKC falters late in San Antonio, 86-84

by Royce Young on November 1, 2012 at 11:56 pm 565 Comments

BOX SCORE

You can look at this game two ways:

1) In their first game without James Harden, trying to work in new pieces, with Kevin Durant playing average (for him), Russell Westbrook playing like butt, Serge Ibaka only scoring four points, the team shooting 37.7 percent from the floor, all on the road against the Spurs, the Thunder were a bad turnover and a Tony Parker miracle 3 and a buzzer beater away from starting the season off on a very nice 1-0 note.

Or…

2) The Spurs, playing a second game of a back-to-back, sans Manu Ginobili, led through a lot of the game as the Thunder looked out of sync offensively, shooting only 37.7 percent from the floor, with 18 turnovers and clear offensive issues to sort out in a post-Harden world.

I think where you fall on those two points probably says a lot about you as a Thunder fan.

What’s clear to me is that the Thunder, and mostly Scott Brooks, have to put some serious work in here. They’re missing a wonderful late-game crutch in Harden. In the end, the Thunder got pretty similar production from Kevin Martin — 15 points on 10 shots and five assists — that they would’ve gotten from Harden. The difference though was what happened on the floor late in the fourth. Everything ran entirely through Westbrook with no secondary ball handling option.

The result? One Of Those Westbrook Games. Every Thunder fan knows them well. Forced shots, bad decisions, silly turnovers, all while he completely busts his ass all over the floor grabbing rebounds and flying around everywhere. (Flying to nowhere on the last defensive possession, but alas.)

With Harden, half of those possessions where Westbrook initiated would’ve been divided up. And this is what’s scary as the Thunder move forward. Yes, this is game one of 82 and it’s pretty silly to draw major conclusions from it when there’s a lot of time to improve, integrate and develop. But you can’t tell me that you can’t envision almost this exact same finish in a very important playoff game.

Now, there will be plenty of games where Westbrook closes out just fine. There will be more of those than these. But again, with this Harden deal, Sam Presti has put a whole lot of confidence in Westbrook as a late-game decision maker. And either he has to improve in that regard and become much more consistent, or Brooks has to cook up a Plan B. Maybe that’s more Eric Maynor running the offense with Westbrook on the wing. Maybe that’s Durant handling more. Whatever it is, it’s pretty clear: The Thunder don’t have that old margin for error they used to have.

That said, the Thunder lost this exact same kind of game plenty WITH Harden last season. It’s not like this is some aberration that manifested simply because Harden is gone. James Harden is a magnificent player but let’s not make him out to be The Greatest Player of All-Time. Again, the Thunder gave this game away more than they were beat. Westbrook missed that easy layup Martin set him up beautifully for. KD didn’t aggressively come get the ball on OKC’s last possession. And Westbrook decided a guy in the first row was more of a threat to hit San Antonio’s last shot than Tony Parker was.

I think I lean towards being more encouraged about this game than anything else. We knew it up front: The Thunder have new challenges this season without Harden. Durant and Westbrook need to achieve new levels of play and they both have a slimmer margin for error. They don’t need to be perfect, but they definitely can’t afford a whole lot of mistakes. Just 48 hours ago the Thunder welcomed Kevin Martin to the team. The more time with him, the more acclimated he’ll be in his role, the more comfortable Westbrook and Durant will be in him as a fellow closer and the better the Thunder will be overall.

There’s a lot to draw from game number one, a whole lot to learn from, a whole lot to take away. But not that much to panic about if you ask me.

NOTES:

  • Up front: I know many of you are sitting there saying, “Ugh, quit talking about James Harden! Move on!” That’s the storyline this season, for the entire season. More so tonight than ever. So deal with it.
  • The Thunder were in midseason form with that third quarter. They seemingly played awful, but somehow made up a 10-point deficit and outscored the Spurs. We’ve definitely seen that before.
  • I thought Martin was a bit too unselfish in the first half. That may be from me not having seen him play all that consistently, but he seemed to give up a number of decent looks to try and find a more open teammate. Some of those shots, he’s just got to fire up.
  • Here’s how the rotation played out: Regular starting five until 4:40 left in the first when Martin and Nick Collison entered together for Thabo and Perk. Then Hasheem Thabeet checked in shortly after that for Ibaka. Then Maynor subbed for Westbrook. Reggie Jackson actually saw a few seconds of time on the floor late in the first quarter but that was it. In the fourth, Brooks mostly stuck with Martin as if he were Harden. Gave him 33 minutes total and had him on the floor down the stretch.
  • Either Thabo or Martin needs to dye his hair yellow or something. Between them and Westbrook and Daniel Orton, the Thunder could confuse the crap out of another team.
  • It’s not surprising, but the Thunder ran a lot of the same sets with Martin that Harden would’ve ran. The two-man game option thing with Collison, the pindown with Westbrook and Durant, the weakside action stuff with him running baseline.
  • Color me surprised that Perry Jones III didn’t play. Thought he would.
  • Found it mildly interesting that Westbrook guarded Tony Parker throughout the game instead of Thabo. Remember how well Thabo did against him last postseason?
  • You know what’s looking pretty stupid right now? My prediction that Westbrook would make an All-Defense team. I’m going to jump down to the comments and call myself a moron for that one.
  • KD became the second youngest player in NBA history to reach 10,000 points, only behind LeBron. Congrats on being awesome, KD.
  • I thought Hasheem Thabeet was neither good, nor completely awful. In other words, he was exactly Nazr Mohammed. And his nutmeg of Matt Bonner was excellent.
  • Maynor really needs more time on the floor. Eleven minutes for him is just not enough. Like I said, Brooks might have to get creative with his rotation to find more time for Maynor and Westbrook to play together, especially on nights like this. I think that could be a bandaid to throw on this Harden stuff.
  • My favorite part of the game was Scott Brooks blowing Perk’s mind with his coaching.
  • Maynor from deeeeeeeeeeeeeep! If I needed one player to sink a halfcourt or behind shot to save my life, I think I’d pick Maynor.
  • KD put in some serious work both defensively and on the glass tonight. He didn’t explode scoring the ball, but 14 boards, five assists and and two steals rounded out a nice line.
  • I definitely expected more from Serge Ibaka. I think that’s one thing the Thunder should focus on more late in games. Run a little two-man game with Ibaka and Durant or Ibaka and Westbrook. Only four points from Ibaka isn’t going to cut it.
  • Ibaka looked better than ever though on the defensive glass.
  • The Thunder are on pace to go 0-82. You should definitely freak out.

Next up: Home Friday against the Blazers.

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Koka_Da_Bauce
Koka_Da_Bauce 5pts

Presti you DONE F*CK'T UP DOGGIE

criznazy53
criznazy53 5pts

Royce,  why don't you complain about Brooks more?

Koka_Da_Bauce
Koka_Da_Bauce 5pts

 @criznazy53 He's not courageous enough to ruffle feathers withing the organization.  He wants to keep his good standing with them more than he wants to be a real journalist. 

fireBrooks
fireBrooks 5pts

Here's another blunder Brooks made. Not playing PJ3. This kid is awesome and could be the xfactor in many games including playoffs. But we have to play him for him and be willing to live with less regular seasons wins for him to be a factor down the road.

If Popovic can trust and integrate a rookie like Leonard in his system, I think Brooks can trust PJ3. 

MostJadedGamer
MostJadedGamer 5pts

 @fireBrooks

 I totally disagree. I dont want to see PJ3 or Lamb take minutes away from Martin, Collision or Maynor. Both rookies should sit on the bench this year. There is no playing time for them without taking away minutes from good veteran players.

okcjim
okcjim 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Here is what I got out of the game last night.  First off the positives...

 

Martin looked really good.  He looked almost too team first which is what he should do his first game.  He looked to pass first most of the time, he handled the ball well. He got by his man everytime he tried and he made some really nice passes.  He also spaced the floor well when he was out there with KD and Russ and was ready to shoot when they passed it to him.  He was a big positive I thought.  If Russ and KD are struggling with the ball like they did down the stretch I would definitely feel comfortable giving the ball to him.  That's really how it worked with Harden too.  He was the third option.  It's easy to remember his successes with the ball down the stretch but he was rarely the first option.  I also think that while Martin doesn't have the strength to get to the rim like Harden, he does have the quickness to beat his man and either hit the mid range jumper or draw the defender and get a good look for a teammate.  You are creating offense either way, just a little bit different.

 

Maynor looked really good for his first real game.  The Spurs crowded the ball for the most part when the 2nd unit was in because they didn't have to guard Thabeet or Sefalosha which made it tougher on that group.  But Maynor got Collison some good looks and hit some nice shots.  He did his job last night.  If you throw a couple more, at least scoring threats out there with the group (don't know who that might be rookies), it should spread the floor out more and give Martin and Maynor more space to work.  PJ3 would be also get a lot of back door dunks IMO. 

 

I don't think Thabeet will play as much eventually just because we need a scoring threat out there.  But he looked every bit as good as Perk did last night to me.  I like Thabeet more the more I see him. 

 

The bad's were relatively obvious.  Russ and KD didn't take care of the ball down the stretch.  They really didn't have a flow most of the game.  That will come.  The whole dynamic of what they're comfortable with changed and this is their first game in that change.  It had to be a little weird even if it didn't feel like it would.  Perk doesn't add much of anything.  Serge was off but still did well on the boards which is differnt  than he has done in the past.  A lot of times in the past if he was off he was completely off.  Defense, rebounding, all of it was bad.  His defense wasn't great but he gave good effort last night.  He'll give us a lot more normally too. 

 

The main thing I'd like to see is the rooks getting run.  We know PJ3 can play and Lamb hasn't played with us but he has showed he can play in the summer league and the preseason with Houston.  I don't like Reggie as a 2.  He's not a natural scorer like Lamb is.  When he does score he dominates the ball so long that it kills the offensive flow. 

 

I'm more encouraged than discouraged about last night for sure. 

T-Fred
T-Fred 5pts

http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/11/friday-bolts-11-2-12

 

Perk-Punt
Perk-Punt 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @tydude

 oh god ...here we go

Perk-Punt
Perk-Punt 5pts

IYesterday was more about evaluation that coaching. He needed to see what he had in his vets first. I'd done the same thing.  That Perk Punt has to go though.

TheIceIsFake
TheIceIsFake 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

I honestly think Scott Brooks is one of the 5 worst coaches in the league. ANYONE could coach that team. They had 3 of the top 20 players in the league, plus Ibaka. But brooks finds more and more ways to screw it up. After he kept running Derek Fisher and Perkins out there in those 4 losses against the heat in the finals my MIND WAS BLOWN. Does he have a brain??? I have zero confidence in his ability to evaluate who should be playing. So I have no idea if Perry Jones and Lamb didn't play because they aren't ready or if it's just because Brooks is an idiot. I'm leaning towards the latter. I was so excited when he turned down their initial offer I was really hoping they wouldn't re-sign him and we could've got someone like Stan Van Gundy or basically ANYONE else.

thunder_mike
thunder_mike 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TheIceIsFake These players would HATTEEEE Stan Van Gundy. They could beat a team 200-50 and SVG will still sit there pissed off and yell at them about something. Players hate that guy and that's the reason all of his talent filled Rosters always come up short and then he gets fired.

T-Fred
T-Fred 5pts

 @thunder_mike  @TheIceIsFake that is why Dwight Howard left Orlando 

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @fireBrooks      Being an azzhole is not the same as sucking up to your players.  It's possible to be an effective coach and actually be someone the players enjoy playing for.  In fact, those are the best coaches because the relationship is based on mutual respect, not intimidation.  Nobody wants to win more than KD, Russ, Perk, and the gang.  They already push themselves more than they're asked to by the coaching staff.  They come in early, stay late, work all summer, etc...  I'd take Coach Brooks any day of the week over someone who might well make OKC a place where KD no longer wants to play.

fireBrooks
fireBrooks 5pts

 @Lost Ones  @tydude  @thunder_mike  @TheIceIsFake I don't think a coach should suck up to his players just to keep his job. You have to coach to be successful and that includes telling the players what they do wrong and making them accountable for it, thru discussions, films, reps, curtailing playing time, benching whatever works. Brooks is a great motivator and is liked by his players. But the blunders he makes are so bad that I really question whether we'll ever win a championship with him. Not only does he put the wrong match ups out there but he sticks with them even when everybody including the commentator screams at him to adapt. He never adapts almost as he's afraid that this would turn the spotlight on him as opposed to his regular rotation not "playing hard enough".

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @tydude  @thunder_mike  @TheIceIsFake he left cause of the gm not stan

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @thunder_mike  @TheIceIsFake players aint suppose to love the coach hes a good coach

thunder_mike
thunder_mike 5pts

 @Lost Ones  @TheIceIsFake I might have the coach names wrong, i didn't do much research, but the fact of the matter is aside from Phil Jackson and Pop, star players usually win out over coaches.

thunder_mike
thunder_mike 5pts

 @Lost Ones  @TheIceIsFake Players of KD's stature always get the coach fired first. Lebron got rid of Silas. Jordan got rid of Collins. Kobe got rid of everyone but Phil Jackson, and so on. Russ definitely wouldn't listen to his fat ass yelling at him 24/7. And yes Dwight hated SVG and even told the GM at one point to fire him or he's walking.

 

Like it or not, but we had an SVG coach in Carlissimo and the players hated him. Brooks got the Thunder to this point and has improved this team every single year. Ya he makes dumb decisions, but he's young. Pop, Phil Jackson, and Jerry Sloan are oooolllddddddd and they've all lost in the finals multiple times.

 

This is a really difficult situation to coach. I mean theoretically Harden walked because he didn't want to be the THIRD superstar option. Young guys with a ton of money and worldwide fans, they don't take being talked down to. You have to be patient, which Brooks seems to have mastered.

Stern Storm Warning
Stern Storm Warning 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TheIceIsFake van gundy would get slaughtered here he wouldnt fit in at all with any of prestis image or public persona plans van gundy while i love him is kinda a dick and wouldnt go over well in oklahoma

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @Stern Storm Warning  @TheIceIsFake fuck the people of...

Stern Storm Warning
Stern Storm Warning 5pts

 @Lost Ones  @TheIceIsFake ............. lol

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @Stern Storm Warning  @TheIceIsFake few more dots got you..................

Stern Storm Warning
Stern Storm Warning 5pts

 @Lost Ones  @TheIceIsFake please continue....... dont worry ill wait.......

Zach99
Zach99 5pts

I agree that his game management is terrible and that he should not have been resigned.

 

That being said we are stuck with him for at least 2 more years so no point in freaking out about it after every game.  We will have to deal with it and hopefully it won't put too many of us in the hospital.

T-Fred
T-Fred 5pts

 @TheIceIsFake  we all knew that Brooks will re sign a contract it was matter of time.IF you guys don't like brooks don't root for this team at all root for Miami or the Lakers or someone else  

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @tydude  @TheIceIsFake I want to respond to you in a way that im not allowed to on here, i will just report this as spam.

Zach99
Zach99 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

I've got to disagree with Royce about Thabeet though.  I was pleasantly surprised with his play.

 

I thought he was active defensively, altered some shots, rebounded pretty well, set some decent screens.

MostJadedGamer
MostJadedGamer 5pts

 @Zach99

 Yea I want to see Thabeet continue to get minutes. He is a athletic 7'3 player, and that means something no matter how much of a bust he has been so far.

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @Zach99 thabeet was the best center yesterday.

thunder_mike
thunder_mike 5pts

 @Lost Ones  @Zach99 I think we just got lucky that the Spurs didn't go right at him because they didn't expect him to play so much. I think Portland is gonna be a good test as to whether he's gonna be worth keeping this year.

Stern Storm Warning
Stern Storm Warning 5pts

 @Bsooreal  @thunder_mike  @Lost Ones  @Zach99 it sounds so lanky it will just be elbows everywhere

Perk-Punt
Perk-Punt 5pts

 @thunder_mike  @Lost Ones  @Zach99

 oh god a Thabeet v Leneord Matchup sounds horrible

T-Fred
T-Fred 5pts

i know why we loss last night My Thunder Iphone cover wasn't on my Iphone last night when i got one for Christmas last year thunder were 6-0 

hiphoopster
hiphoopster 5pts

Brooks has to find a way to get KD the ball on the move. The post up doesn't work against more physical defenders, which is what we'll see in the playoffs. The one thing that would help KD, in my opinion, is for him to make a commitment to screen to get open. but his screens are merely rubs. It has to be good enough to initiate a defensive switch, help, or an open shot.....rarely does that happen.

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @hiphoopster ya i said this yesterday we need more catch and shoot plays for kd, every since he got "some" ballhandle he wants to post stronger players.

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

Mavs, I'm told, poised to waive Eddy Curry -- NOT Dominique Jones -- to make roster room for Troy Murphy

 

 

SIGN HIM im serious

T-Fred
T-Fred 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Thunder is also better then My Chiefs they are 1-7 

Perk-Punt
Perk-Punt 5pts

 @tydude

 Geno Smith Brotta!

Watson
Watson 5pts

@Bsooreal @tydude You don't want him. The USC QB is a much better choice

Watson
Watson 5pts

@Bsooreal @tydude Barkley >>>>> Cassel. And Geno is not RG3 or even Cam, who looks worse every week. He shouldn't lose a game in the no defense league

Perk-Punt
Perk-Punt 5pts

 @Watson  @Bsooreal  @tydude

 we have one of those guys....Cassel

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Watson  @Bsooreal  @tydude LMAO barkley is ass 

Perk-Punt
Perk-Punt 5pts

 @tydude

 i put my j charles jersey up last night? did they fire pioli yet?

T-Fred
T-Fred 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

not yet but he should be fire this week  @Bsooreal

Its Raining 3's
Its Raining 3's 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Also, we were down by more than 10 points going into the 4th quarter in 2 of the 3 regular season games against the Spurs, we got blown out really. Our defense looked good and we just missed open shots, had dumb turnovers, and no ball movement. All things that will improve with time as chemistry builds between the players. Maynor, Martin, and Thabo didn't play with the second unit last year, Martin didn't play with the first unit last year, and yet they were going up against a Spurs team that has had NO turnover, all the same players. The Spurs were also looking for revenge after getting knocked out of the playoffs. CHILL OUT

Perk-Punt
Perk-Punt 5pts

 @Its Raining 3's

 Its raining some sense.  but seriously change your SN....lol

T-Fred
T-Fred 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Brooks is better then Mike Brown from the Lakers 

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @tydude I rather have mike brown at least we would be playing good defense 

T-Fred
T-Fred 5pts

 @Lost Ones they are horrible right now  

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @tydude brooks cant win a title in OKC your point?

T-Fred
T-Fred 5pts

 @Lost Ones he couldn't win a title in Cleveland 

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @tydude product of the players not the coach. 

fireBrooks
fireBrooks 5pts

 @Lost Ones  @tydude Also Brown has more balls. Didn't he bench Bynum?

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @fireBrooks  @tydude sure did he benched kobe 2

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