ESPN logoTrueHoop Network
An ESPN Affiliate
Daily Thunder.com
  • Home
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Contact
  • Team
    • Salaries
    • Roster
    • Schedule & Events
  • Commenting Guidelines

To heave or not to heave?

by Royce Young on February 12, 2013 at 12:48 pm 375 Comments

It’s easily the worst, lowest percentage shot in basketball.

No, not a Kendrick Perkins 3-pointer or a Dwight Howard free throw.

It’s the end-of-quarter halfcourt heave.

According to Elias, a halfcourter is attempted about 27 percent of the time to finish the first, second or third quarter (it’s rare you see a heave to finish the fourth). For the season, there have been 758 games played in the NBA total, meaning roughly 205 halfcourt heaves. And total, there have been three total halfcourt or beyond makes. Three. Crunch the numbers and that means the league is shooting roughly combined 1.5 percent from halfcourt and beyond.

It’s a terrible shot, at least just in terms of pure efficiency standards. But you don’t really have many options when it comes to it. It’s either chuck it, or let that one percent chance of three points slip away because you care about your numbers. If you get the ball 80 feet from the basket with 1.6 seconds left in a quarter, you can either a) chunk it or b) eat it.

Or there’s the third, very popular option: the juuuuuuust-a-split-second-too-late halfcourt heave. You know, give the appearance you’re shooting it but oh darn it, the buzzer went off before I let it go so it doesn’t count.

It actually became enough of an issue with the Thunder that Scott Brooks felt the need to address it with the team this season.

“We talked about it, about seven weeks ago maybe, couple months ago, and we talked about it,” Brooks said. “I said ‘We have to shoot that shot. There’s still time in the game — shoot it.’ The only time we don’t shoot it is if we’re up and it’s the last seconds because you don’t want to do that.

“We had that talk and somebody on our team did not take it that same night, and then we all got on him,” he said. “The next night, somebody made that shot.”

Every player I asked about it remembered Brooks talk right away.

“Yeah he said something to us about it,” said Eric Maynor. “He was like, ‘I be peeping some of y’all be doing that.’ But he know me, I’m going to shoot it.”

Said Nick Collison: “It’s funny because when [Brooks] brought that up, Eric said, ‘I’ll shoot it’ and he made one like the next game.”

Shane Battier was recently asked about this by Sam Amick of USA Today and had a typically thoughtful response:

“If you’re a true shooter, those shots add up,” [Battier] said, while making it clear that his view was also the opinion of most, if not all, NBA players. “It’s not worth it (to shoot them). Even though statistically speaking, it’s a positive – it’s a plus-play (in terms of probabilities of success). If you shot every buzzer beater, you’re going to make one out of – whatever the odds are.

“Even the heave is a plus-play. But unfortunately we’re not judged on the plus-plays. We’re judged on (shooting) percentages. I think they should take the heave out of the stat book. It’s common sense.”

And if they did change the rule book to reflect this stance?

“You’d have guys fighting to take that shot, because it’s a hell of a fun shot,” he said. “We shoot those shots every day in practice.”

(In college, it’s not counted as a shot. It’s a “scorekeeper’s discretion” play. I don’t know if that means it has to be inside halfcourt or what, but a 74-foot baseball throw isn’t considered an attempt.)

Now you might see it as a selfish move where a player is putting individual statistics over potential team gain, but look at it like this: Take someone like Kevin Durant who has this whole 50-40-90 thing going. Using the average halfcourters attempted per team a game, let’s say that KD takes 12 for the season. His chances of making one are extremely slim, so let’s say he went 0-for-12. That’s 12 extra misses from 3, and 12 extra misses from the floor. Add 12 misses to his current numbers and his percentage goes from 51.6 to 50.9 from the field and 42.7 to 40.5 from 3. That’s pretty significant. Certainly enough to care about. Like Battier said, those misses add up.

So it’s kind of hard to blame a guy for waiting that extra half second to wait for the buzzer to sound.

“They know. They know,” Brooks said. “They see that light, that light turns on and then they throw it up.”

What about Brooks? Did he shoot it?

“Yeah, because that’s a shot attempt,” he said. “I knew I wasn’t going to make it though.”

Did he make any?

“Yeah, sure I did. You guys aren’t going to look it up, so I made seven of ‘em.”

How do Thunder players feel about the halfcourt heave? Should it be counted as an attempt? And do they pull the just-after-the-buzzer move? I asked some of them:

Kevin Durant: “It depends on what I’m shooting from the field. First quarter if I’m 4-for-4, I let it go. Third quarter if I’m like 10-for-16, or 10-for-17, I might let it go. But if I’m like 8-for-19, I’m going to go ahead and dribble one more second and let that buzzer go off and then throw it up there. So it depends on how the game’s going.”

Russell Westbrook: “No. Nope … If I was considering about [statistics] I’d do a lot of shit different.”

Thabo Sefolosha: “Personally if I have it, I shoot it. I’ve seen players not shoot it at all, or seen players shoot it late. I’ve seen that before … [Brooks] did, he mentioned it. In the team, most of us, I think we take the shot. But you see players that don’t do it … You gotta count it [as a shot]. You gotta count it. It’s a shot. But who cares really. I don’t care about that kind of stuff. One more shot, make or miss, is not going to break or make me, so I shoot it.”

Eric Maynor: “I know people that do that, but I ain’t doing that. I’m trying to make it. But I’ve seen people do that a lot. Trying to act like they got the shot up but really know that ball didn’t get released. But you see it a lot in this league … It’s a shot. It’s a shot. If somebody shoot it, if you let it go, that’s a shot attempt so you can’t say that.”

Kendrick Perkins: “Yeah so they don’t mess up they field goal percentage. Absolutely … Nah, I don’t care, but I noticed it before. I notice that, yeah … I remember in Boston someone used to do it, I think Eddie House used to do it. Because he was trying to break the single season on 3-point percentage … I don’t know, but you never know at the end of the game what the score is gonna be so you should try everything that you can.”

Kevin Martin: “Yes, I’ve noticed it a lot. For myself? I like to be considered an efficient scorer, so I think that’ll answer your question on how I approach that shot … [Brooks] said something about if no one wants to shoot it, go up and grab it. Don’t be the person to grab it and wait. And then I think Eric Maynor hit a shot or Russ hit a shot … If they changed that rule [to not count it], I’d probably shoot a lot more of them. Some people like to shoot the halfcourt shot, some people don’t.”

Scott Brooks: “Yeah, that’s a shot attempt. I knew I wasn’t going to make it, but you have to shoot it. I mean, three-quarter court? It’s probably not even worth shooting. But halfcourt in? These guys practice halfcourt shots as fun, every team I’ve been on either before practice or after practice they will have shooting contests at halfcourt. You have to shoot them. I believe you take that shot. And our guys do … I’d rather have a chance to make it then wonder if I should’ve shot that. You’ll never know … It makes sense [to not count it], but the purity of the game. You can’t do that. You just can’t do that.”

Nick Collison: “A lot of guys do that. I think they should just not count it as an attempt unless they make it. Why not? I mean, it’s not a real shot. I think they should just not count it. I know then there becomes a line of where does it become an attempt, is it 10 feet behind the line or whatever. At least on the other end of halfcourt. I mean, it’s not a big deal because it doesn’t really change much.”

Categories
Commentary
Featured
Featured Video
Previous Post Tuesday Bolts – 2.12.13
Next Post Thunder at Jazz: Pregame Primer
362 comments
  Livefyre
  • Get Livefyre
  • FAQ
Sign in
+ Follow
Post comment
 
Link
Newest | Oldest
atxhorn
atxhorn 5pts

Royce article discussed on the front page of the most visited website in the world!

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kevin-durant-sometimes-doesn-t-want-chuck-low-220357263--nba.html

Thunder S
Thunder S 5pts

I dont get our lack of urgency on D on the road. We have to assume that we'll have play twice as good D on the road to win. See game 5 against the spurs. You cant expect that level of effort every game, but at least that level of focus is what's needed.

Legendary_Dork
Legendary_Dork 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

http://dailythunder.com/2013/02/thunder-at-jazz-pregame-primer-7/#more-24404

C-Wil
C-Wil 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Nothing will ever touch Wilts stats from 61-62

 

50.4 PPG, 25.7 RPG, 10.4 FTM, .506 FG%, and the most impressive stat of all, 48.5 MPG.

 

THAT is a dominating player right there. 

As Promised
As Promised 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @C-Wil God of basketball.  i think KD on top of his game can average 37 a game but like 8 rebounds and 10 FTA's

C-Wil
C-Wil 5pts

 @Pope Cage The 1st I always thought KD at his peak would average about 32.5 PPG. Remember, he's only averaged over 30 once, and that was 30.1.

As Promised
As Promised 5pts

 @C-Wil I was thinking of him hitting 50 percent and taking 25 shots a game with 10 FTA per game making 9 out of 10.  Shooting 37 percent from 30. 

Sigmund
Sigmund 5pts

 @C-Wil It would be more like 26 PPG, 14 RPG if you adjust pace to todays game.

As Promised
As Promised 5pts

players don't smoke at halftime anymore?  Da Fuq

areayewhy
areayewhy 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Pope Cage The 1st not cigarettes at least

lmp5336
lmp5336 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Sigmund  @C-Wil And the fact that players no longer smoke cigarettes at halftime.

OBoy
OBoy 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 11 Like

Holy crap, congrats Royce!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y2o0Ar7haQ&feature=youtu.be

Hasheem Thabinks
Hasheem Thabinks 5pts

 @OBoy Jones III PTI criticizing KD saying you cant win if you don't score.. REALLY

As Promised
As Promised 5pts

 @OBoy Jones III That is very cool.  He's moven on up!... to the East Side!!!  And together we'll raaaa-iiisssee!

Cold-Blooded
Cold-Blooded 5pts

Gordon hayward and mo williams is out tonight vs thunder

PNT
PNT 5pts

 @Cold-Blooded

 Let the streak live!

Cold-Blooded
Cold-Blooded 5pts

@PNT yup

OohWeeItsVelvetHoop
OohWeeItsVelvetHoop 5pts

lets get the thunder to do the harlem shake lol

As Promised
As Promised 5pts

Is Oscar Robertson better then Lebron james?

Hasheem Thabinks
Hasheem Thabinks 5pts

Got Distracted into watching the Kobe, Lebron MVPuppets commercials on youtube. How do we get Nike to Make some KD/Russ versions

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

Jordan

KAJ

Magic

Duncan

Wilt

Russell

Olajuwon

Shaq

Bird

LeBron

(Kobe)

 

 

Sigmund
Sigmund 5pts

 @[censored] Lebron isn't better career wise than Kobe at this point. Lebron averaged 17.8 points on 54 TS% just two years ago in the finals.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @Sigmund He has 3 MVP's and his peak right now is already better than Kobe's.  Of course he's better.  

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

 @[censored]  @MJOKC  @Sigmund Nash has two one more then kobe nothing else to discuss

 

Sigmund
Sigmund 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @[censored]  @MJOKC Just because player is more productive doesn't mean he is better. Paul Pierce is still better than Harden.

Stephen Jackson is not about this spelling
Stephen Jackson is not about this spelling 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @[censored]  @MJOKC  @Sigmund Considering the impact voter fatigue has on MVP totals, I think top-3 MVP finishes would be significantly more indicative of the prolonged quality of a player's career.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @MJOKC  @Sigmund MVP shares are a pretty good indicator of where a player generally ranked.  There are bad MVP winners, but Kobe should have had more if he was as good as some say.

Stephen Jackson is not about this spelling
Stephen Jackson is not about this spelling 5pts

 @Pope Cage The 1st  @[censored]  @MJOKC  @Sigmund two...

As Promised
As Promised 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @[censored]  @MJOKC  @Sigmund Nash even has one!

Sigmund
Sigmund 5pts

 @[censored] You are going to take a hit when you usually average 27 points on 60 TS% and then go 17.8 points on 54 TS% on the biggest stage.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @MJOKC  @Sigmund MVP's are hard to get, especially three of them.

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @[censored]  @Sigmund Finals MVPS>>> Regular season mvps

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @[censored]  @Sigmund MVPs is media awards, if mvps mattered jordan  would have more.

PNT
PNT 5pts

 @[censored]

 Yes to Shaq and no Big O? Glaring omission my friend.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @PNT 60's stats don't impress me much... I have Oscar in the Top 15.

As Promised
As Promised 5pts

 @[censored] You don't think Timmy is top 10?

As Promised
As Promised 5pts

 @[censored] I can't believe I forgot about Kareem!  I should be executed!

supreme35
supreme35 5pts

Not that today's game won't be nice or anything but I'm ready for Valentine's day.

PNT
PNT 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @supreme35

 I'll tell you what Brooks surely is telling the team. Don't look past the Jazz at home.

supreme35
supreme35 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @PNT definitely doesn't mean us fans can't though lol

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

Lebrons just outside of my top 10 all time probably got him at 11

lmp5336
lmp5336 5pts

 @Lost Ones That sounds fair. Statistically he's way up, but only one ring hurts him right now.

As Promised
As Promised 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @lmp5336  @Lost Ones He's at a place in the NBA where no one can touch him or else they'd get called for fouls.  He gets away with a whole lot of fouls himself.  It's ridiculous Jordan had to reach his peak to get that type of star treatment, but people were hailing Lebron since highschool given him all kinds of preferential treatment.  Ref's still do until this day

David Stern
David Stern 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @C-Wil  @Pope Cage The 1st  @lmp5336  @Lost Ones

 I resemble that remark.

C-Wil
C-Wil 5pts

 @Pope Cage The 1st  @lmp5336  @Lost Ones Couldn't have said it better myself. LeBron has been spoonfed since Day One. Carried by the media, the officials, and the commish himself. 

As Promised
As Promised 5pts

People I list ahead of Lebron:  Wilt, Russel, Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Shaq, Tim Duncan

El Prez
El Prez 5pts

 @Pope Cage The 1st Yikes...we both left off Oscar Robertson...egregious.

 

PNT
PNT 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @El Prez  @Pope Cage The 1st

 I didn't. #7 The man averaged a trip dub for a whole season!

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @Pope Cage The 1st Why Bird?

As Promised
As Promised 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @[censored] His offense is way better then Lebrons.  He was able to shoot efficently and score more points doing so.  He passed very will for a not so athletic person, rebounded.  His defense was as good as Lebrons and he was a much better leader then Lebron ever was.  I'd take Larry over Lebron.  I see Larry's work ethic in KD.

lmp5336
lmp5336 5pts

 @[censored]  @Pope Cage The 1st I don't think Bird would fare that well in this era, but you could say the same about Wilt, Russell, and Oscar, too. If you consider him in terms of his era it's hard to bounce him from the top 5 or 10. Three MVPS (over Magic in his prime), three rings and great stats give him a good case.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Pope Cage The 1st He had plenty of hustle plays but he was not a good defensive player and gets off the hook a lot for the comparatively weak competition at this position during his peak.  I think Bird's a little overrated honestly.

Sigmund
Sigmund 5pts

 @[censored]  @lmp5336  @Pope Cage The 1st http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svHk8Zntc5g

As Promised
As Promised 5pts

 @[censored] Larry is Nick Collison 2.0 on defense.  He had a lot of hustle plays to the point where his back start having problems from taking a carp load of charges

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @Pope Cage The 1st Bird just got a lot of steals.  He was hidden on defense constantly by the time he was LeBron's age.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @MJOKC  @lmp5336  @Pope Cage The 1st It's was six games.

As Promised
As Promised 5pts

 @[censored] His team defense is far better then individual defense for sure.  Individual defense goes to lebron but not by very much.  Lebron gets a way with a lot of calls.  Larrys a better team defender

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @Sigmund  @lmp5336  @Pope Cage The 1st Bird's TEAM did.  

lmp5336
lmp5336 5pts

 @MJOKC  @Pope Cage The 1st  @[censored] Some would just call that playing defense without fouling.

Sigmund
Sigmund 5pts

 @lmp5336  @Pope Cage The 1st  @[censored] Bird took Jordan to school in his early years. Swept him twice in playoffs.

[censored]
[censored] 5pts

 @Pope Cage The 1st LeBron's career TS% is virtually the same and he's in the midst of several 60%+ TS seasons in a tougher defensive game.  LeBron scores more and more efficiently, this is especially true if you compare their peaks.  Bird's defense as good as LeBron's?  Did you ever watch Bird?

lmp5336
lmp5336 5pts

 @Pope Cage The 1st  @[censored] Bird's defense was not "as good as LeBrons." Come on, now.

Sigmund
Sigmund 5pts

 @[censored]  @Pope Cage The 1st Bird was better rebounder, just as good passer, better shooter, not much worse scorer.

Stephen Jackson is not about this spelling
Stephen Jackson is not about this spelling 5pts

 @[censored]  @Pope Cage The 1st RINGZZZ

Hasheem Thabinks
Hasheem Thabinks 5pts

 @DSYIII  @[censored]  @Pope Cage The 1st https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP-p9i85sNc

Hasheem Thabinks
Hasheem Thabinks 5pts

 @[censored]  @Pope Cage The 1st He's the LEGENDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trackbacks

  1. Kevin Durant admits he avoids desperation heaves to protect his stats » Larry Brown Sports says:
    February 12, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    [...] depends on what I’m shooting from the field,” Durant said, via Royce Young of the Daily Thunder. “First quarter if I’m 4-for-4, I let it go. Third quarter if I’m like 10-for-16, or [...]

  2. SLAM ONLINE | » Kevin Durant Avoids Heaves at the Buzzer to Keep His Shooting Percentage High says:
    February 12, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    [...] think they can make the shot, and in some instances, they want to preserve their shooting %. Kevin Durant falls in the latter category, and it’s something OKC Thunder head coach Scott Brooks is against (inefficiency be damned.) [...]

  3. Kevin Durant Doesn’t Like To Shoot Desperate Heaves, Looks To Preserve FG% | Hoops-Nation says:
    February 12, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    [...] [H/T to Royce Young of Daily Thunder] [...]

  4. Kevin Durant Claims He Won’t Always Shoot High-Risk Buzzer-Beater Shots | TheSportsNewsHub.com says:
    February 12, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    [...] Royce Young of the Daily Thunder had this detailed report about what Thunder players think about the growing phenomenon, including Durant’s personal reaction to being asked what he does in that situation: [...]

  5. E' giusto sporcarsi la media con un buzzer beater da oltre metà campo? says:
    February 13, 2013 at 5:33 am

    [...] interessante di Royce Young di DailyThunder.com sui buzzer beater da [...]

  6. 10 tematów zastępczych dla kontuzji Nerlensa Noela | MVP Basketball Magazyn says:
    February 13, 2013 at 5:43 am

    [...] w tym sezonie 1,5% rzutów rozpaczy (z za połowy boiska)? Wśród nich nie ma Kevina Durant, który przyznaje, że nie wykonuje takich rzutów, bo nie chce sobie obniżać statystyk [...]

  7. Durant admits what no other player will | Entertain DMV says:
    February 13, 2013 at 10:31 am

    [...] that most deserves to cop to it – the legendarily efficient MVP candidate, Kevin Durant – told Daily Thunder’s Royce Young that, no, he’s not going to take that shot if his shooting percentages on the night aren’t up [...]

  8. Brandon Knight admits ‘you’ consider stats before attempting half-court heaves « PistonPowered says:
    February 15, 2013 at 9:43 am

    [...] from an awesome report on half-court heaves by Royce Young of Daily Thunder, Brandon Knight was asked about those end-of-quarter shots. The issue: Do players hold the ball an [...]

  9. Which Pistons attempt end-of-quarter desperation shots? (Or why we should cut Rodney Stuckey a break) « PistonPowered says:
    February 15, 2013 at 11:49 am

    [...] Durant, via Royce Young of Daily Thunder, said he sometimes won’t take an end-of-quarter heave for fear of lowering his field-goal percentag…. Durant is one of the few players with the cache to admit that, and Brandon Knight went [...]

  10. Najbardziej chytry plan w tym sezonie NBA | MVP Basketball Magazyn says:
    March 6, 2013 at 6:01 am

    [...] nie tylko gracze Thunder stosują takie praktyki, ale akurat to ich przepytał na potrzeby swojego artykułu Royce Young – dziennikarz piszący właśnie o [...]

  11. New Daily Thunder.com THTV: Joyless in Oklahoma City? | New Daily Thunder.com says:
    April 3, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    [...] Or take Durant’s answer to the halfcourt heave thing. Some could perceive that as him being selfish and valuing individual stats over team. But in reality, he’s just doing what everyone else with a brain would do. [...]

Back to Top

Headlines

  • KD named All-NBA first team, Westbrook second team
  • Perk donates $25,000 to help build shelters in schools
  • Report: Mo Cheeks to interview with the Pistons
  • Thunder land the 12th pick in the 2013 draft
  • Thunder donate $1 million to aid with disaster relief
  • Kevin Durant donates $1 million to disaster relief
  • Serge Ibaka named first team All-Defense
Daily Thunder
  • Home
  • About
  • Advertise
  • Contact

Copyright © 2008-2012 DailyThunder.com
Designed by iThemes Creative & Hosted by Site5