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3-on-3: Bench, please

by Royce Young on March 8, 2013 at 1:07 pm 250 Comments
jackson1

Melissa Majchrzak/NBAE/Getty Images

There is nothing more confusing on this Thunder team, outside of Hasheem Thabeet’s Twitter account, than the play of its incredibly inconsistent bench. Some nights, led by Kevin Martin, it looks assertive and strong, a legit asset. Other nights, it looks like a gaping hole.

At the trade deadline, the Thunder passed on doing anything drastic to improve it, instead adding two fringe pieces. What’s the status here though? Is Reggie Jackson maybe the second unit savior? Where does Derek Fisher fit? And how good do we all feel about Martin in the biggest moments?

1. True or false: Reggie Jackson is underused.

Royce Young, Daily Thunder: True. Jackson is blossoming, people. And while he’s playing essentially the same amount of game to game time Eric Maynor saw when he was even at his best, Jackson is far more a dynamic player. He gives Scott Brooks a bunch more options as he can play alongside Russell Westbrook or play alone in the backcourt. The Thunder have been missing a dynamic offensive spark on the second unit all season and it appears Jackson might be the man to provide it. But 12 minutes a game isn’t good enough, especially when Derek Fisher is getting 15.

J.G. Marking, Daily Thunder: True. But mainly because Reggie has really come on as of late and because of the fact that Derek Fisher is, you know, playing at all (gee, I wonder how I’ll feel on the next question). Reggie Jackson’s combination of athleticism and absurd length make him a potentially wonderful nightmare for opposing defenses (especially against reserves) as he has the rare ability to penetrate and finish either around or over larger defenders. He may not be as steady as pre-injury Maynor or as savvy and experienced as Fisher, but he is something neither of them really ever have been: dynamic.

J.A Sherman, Welcome to Loud City: True. But less true now than ever before. While this may seem like an inappropriate comparison given what we know now, I liken Jackson’s role on the bench to James Harden’s role two years ago. If you recall, before the Jeff Green/Kendrick Perkins trade, Harden was being openly questioned as to whether OKC blew their draft pick on him. He seemed uncertain, unconfident, and we weren’t really sure what he was bringing to the table. However, once Green left and Harden was handed the reins to the 2nd unit, he took off and never looked back. In the same way, once Jackson was given the vote of confidence as the backup PG, his play has really become consistent and he has a calm confidence that was never present before. His drive-and-dish game is a natural continuation of Westbrook’s, and Jackson works really hard to set up his teammates for open looks. Jackson’s improvement actually makes the 2nd unit dangerous.

While I do worry some that Derek Fisher’s presence on the court may take away some of Jackson’s swagger, these past 2 games seemed to indicate otherwise. Jackson did not look hindered at all by the presence of Fisher on the court simultaneously; he continued to attack the basket and was unafraid to shoot.

3on3_truehoopnetwork_1102. Fill in the blank: Derek Fisher’s role should be __________.

Young: Limited. I honestly don’t mind Fisher playing. I’m not of the mind that he should play zero minutes, zero games. I think in spots, he provides some value as a spot-up option and a different backcourt look. I’d be fine with him playing a similar role to that of Daequan Cook — 5-10 minutes depending on the game, with some nights him sitting out entirely. But this stuff where it seems like Brooks just forgets he’s on the floor entirely and reaches close to 20 minutes is no good. Because with this Thunder team, when someone is playing, that also means someone is not. Meaning that you’re leaving a talented player on the bench to give minutes somewhere else. Whether those are to Thabo, to Martin or to Jackson, or heck, to Jeremy Lamb or Perry Jones, Fisher can’t cut drastically into them.

Marking: Much less than it has been. Look, Fisher is a wonderful presence on this team and he still has a knack for making shots…it’s just that his presence should be in the locker room and his knack for making shots at all is becoming less and less frequent. Toss in the fact that Fisher is eating up small-ball minutes that really should be going to Brewer and/or Reggie Jackson playing alongside Westbrook (if Brooks really wants to go to a three-guard lineup), and I’m sorry but this has all the feeling of the “I will play Jeff Green no matter what”-itis, only the Derek Fisher strain.

Sherman: As a fire alarm. As in, only break open when necessary. I will admit, I’ve never been a huge fan of the Fisher signing, either last season or this one. I accede that he wasn’t a total negative last year, as he brought some stability to the 2nd unit that was lacking. I think we can all agree though, Scott Brooks was way too reliant and deferential to Fisher when it came time to hand out critical minutes, especially in the Finals.

In this season, the fact is that Fisher is 38, and he can’t do a lot of the things that he used to do and he can’t really do the things that a championship-contending team needs him to do. His shot has looked pretty bad, his defense has been poor because he can’t really guard the 1 or the 2, and even though he still has a good basketball IQ, it simply seems like his physical ability does not allow him to perform at a level that the Thunder need. It was smart for Presti to pick him up and fill out the roster, but I remain perplexed as to why Fisher is an immediate rotation guy while other more talented players like Ronnie Brewer or even Jeremy Lamb remain sidelined.

3. Scale of 1-10, 10 being very, how concerned are you about Kevin Martin’s pending playoff performance.

Young: 8. And that’s a lot less about Martin, and more about the Thunder. I don’t think there’s any question that Martin fits. Which maybe is the problem. He fits a little too well. He doesn’t stand out. You don’t feel him during the game. He’s completely fine blending, which is great when Westbrook and Durant have it going and have the luxury of a scorer like Martin on the wing to draw attention and knock down shots. But there will be games where the Thunder need that boost from a third scorer. Sometimes, even a second scorer. That was the thing with Harden — any given night, he could trade places with either Westbrook or Durant and be the secondary option. Martin has never been that. That’s part due to both Westbrook and Durant’s development, but it’s also because Martin is such a blend player.

Marking: 7.23. He’s never been to where the Thunder will find themselves: deep in the playoffs, where pressure and the moment are bigger than any regular season game could ever dream of. The fact that Martin is already developing a disheartening trend of drifting in an out of STRETCHES of games (plural), especially on the road, and I don’t see how someone can’t be just a little bit concerned. But I still believe Martin’s skillset fits better with this team than Harden’s did (off-the-ball shooter instead of ball-dominant iso guy), but Harden always wanted the moment, the pressure and the stage. Hence why he’s wearing Rockets red. I guess we’ll find out if Martin really has that BIG moment in him for a championship contender or not.

Sherman: I would put my concern about Kevin Martin’s play at about a 7. While I know it is a bit presumptuous to be slotting the Thunder for the Finals already, using the Heat as The Standard likely means that the Thunder are simultaneously measuring up well against their Western competition also. One of the biggest things the Finals showed us (and this season has borne out) is that LeBron James has put a stranglehold on “Greatest Player Alive” for the foreseeable future. For the Thunder to challenge James, they need the rest of the team to be performing at a high level, higher than the Heat’s role players. With Harden gone, that puts a lot of pressure on Martin.

I like Martin because he takes his role seriously, but by the same token, it’s pretty clear he’s never been in this type of pressure situation before where he knows that he’s a key cog in a team’s championship aspirations. He’s hard on himself when he doesn’t perform to the level the team needs. That’s a good thing, obviously. However, if he becomes too self-conscious about his performance, I wonder if he’s going to go into a turtle shell when faced with real pressure. Fortunately for us all, all indicators tell us that the team has fully embraced Martin, so if he’s going to learn to deal with the pressure, it will be his team that helps him get there.

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Judee
Judee 5pts

Can anyone hear the loud groan from my home when Fisher goes in? He has played so poorly that our offense is playing around him now. It's like playing 4 on 5. Reggie needs more minutes. Brooks must have a man crush on Fisher.

nbapianomom
nbapianomom 5pts

 @Judee

 You really need to be in the pre-game primer board.  That's where the game activity is.

 

Dicharden
Dicharden 5pts

Commentator: Ready , Set RUN

Blood-Game
Blood-Game 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

http://dailythunder.com/2013/03/thunder-vs-bobcats-pregame-primer/

Thunder chick 2010
Thunder chick 2010 5pts

is there really 26 people lisining  cause sometimes i think its me and a couple other people

d21
d21 5pts

@RohdeOK: #Thunder's Russell Westbrook (ankle) will start vs. Charlotte tonight.

beelieve035
beelieve035 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @d21 This deserves a: "Duh." Lol

OKC035
OKC035 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @beelieve035  @d21 Westbrook would be playing tonight if his foot had fallen off last night. I'm convinced he would be back within a week from an acl tear, if his acl is even tearable. *Knock on wood*

beelieve035
beelieve035 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @OKC035  @d21 Shhhhhh. Don't mention anything about a knee or ANY kind of injury. The minute Reggie mentioned his durability last night he tweaked his ankle. Lol

 

(But I do agree.)

OKC035
OKC035 5pts

 @d21 http://24.media.tumblr.com/fd3aefdf9134f5de679eaedefe23e2f8/tumblr_min6q4Ruvz1rkyqeco1_500.gif

Thunder chick 2010
Thunder chick 2010 5pts

 @d21 i hope know one thought a little ankle injury would keep russ out of a basketball game

BallSoHard
BallSoHard 5pts

KD hasn't been playing up to par ever since.......Lebron starting tearing it up and the media has basically given the MVP to Lebron. I think it has impacted his play.

nbapianomom
nbapianomom 5pts

 @BallSoHard

 I tend to think it's because of his ribs.  Knee in back against the Cavaliers and the fall during the Heat game.  Did you see him grimace and hold his ribs on his left side during the game last night when he got caught up and fouled in the lane late in the game?  Wish I could be more specific on when in the game, but I can't.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @BallSoHard   I keep wondering if it has anything to do with Russ being on fire these days.  Whatever it is, some doubt seems to have crept into KD's game that wasn't there before.

BallSoHard
BallSoHard 5pts

@TaoMaas yea, he seems out of it. Not sure what's going on, but i'm sure we're overthinking it.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @BallSoHard    Could just be bored with the regular season and ready for the playoffs to start.  Can't say as I blame him.  lol

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

 @BallSoHard KD hasnt been playing up to par since lebron took his soul on vday

courtsense
courtsense 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Lost Ones  @BallSoHard Lost, that is one of best (and brightest) things you've ever posted. Seriously.

BallSoHard
BallSoHard 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@courtsense @Lost Ones you must've missed the one from earlier today

Legendary_Dork
Legendary_Dork 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Lost Ones  @BallSoHard yep cause no superstar EVER has gone through a rut or just a dry spell, NONE whatsoever~

 

~.~

Thunder chick 2010
Thunder chick 2010 5pts

 @Legendary_Dork  @Lost Ones  @BallSoHardespecially lebron james

Thunder chick 2010
Thunder chick 2010 5pts

 @Lost Ones  @BallSoHard he needs to beat him up and take it back

yarkmu
yarkmu 5pts

 @Lost Ones  @BallSoHard kd got his heart and wing broken that day

yarkmu
yarkmu 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

it doesn't matter what maynor is doing in portland now. his numbers here sucked--he had plenty of time this season to show if he could hack it or not. whether that's because he wasn't used correctly, or his body wasn't right is immaterial--the production wasn't there, and the team moved on. now it's reggie's turn at the backup spot and he's done quite well. that is fact. move on. 

 

 

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @yarkmu   In fairness to Eric, he was wearing a knee brace for most of this year which seemed to have been a large part of the problem with his play.  By the time he was able to take it off, it was too late...Reggie was already starting to shine.  Don't think it would have mattered anyway because I don't think resigning Eric was part of the plan going forward.

yarkmu
yarkmu 5pts

 @TaoMaas i'm sure that contributed. along with the mental difficulty in coming back--i think it usually takes athletes at least a year to come back fully.

 

unfortunately, the team didn't have anymore time to wait. we have a young guy with potential that needs to be developed. and wouldn't you know, he's been coming along quite well post trade. so i think we should hope the trade works well for everyone and move on. 

 

 

OKC035
OKC035 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 I just re-watched the game from last night, because I was pretty drunk watching it last night, and these were some thoughts I had. Sorry for the wall of text.

 

Remember in the first half of the year, how many times Russ would hit KD on the backdoor cut for the easy dunk? Why did we stop doing that? Man was our offense stagnent in the 2nd half, even more then normal. No off the ball movement at all.

 

Another thing I noticed was when we ran a Russ KD pick and roll, KD literally was making no contact on the pick, allowing Russ's defender to easily follow him and not freeing up either of them. This would always end up with KD trying to post up 15 feet from the basket, and Russ either entering the ball to KD with less than 10 on the shot clock and KD settling for a jumper. Or KD being fronted and Russ going 1 on 1 with little time on the shot clock and also settling for a jumper. I know KD has never been able to set good picks, but come on at least make contact.

 

I don't know if this should fall on Brooks, Russ, Kd or all of them, but we really let the Knicks off the hook playing Amare at center by himself for a lot of the 2nd half. Amare is not a good rim protecter at all yet KD and Russ settled for outside jumpers all game. Also watching a ton of Knicks games this year, when Amare is at center, teams just kill the Knicks in the pick and roll. Why not run the Russ Serge pick and roll more? We did it like 3 times all half.

 

I'm not sure if Russ was hesitant because of his ankle, and if so fine, but he carved up the Knicks in the first quarter attacking the basket. 15 points and 3 assists in the first quarter alone. Then for the rest of the game he basically abandoned attacking the basket and settled for some bad shots. Worse game Russ has played in a while.

 

KD also really needs to not be so sloppy passing. He had at least 3 passes that he threw right to a defender.

 

I know we won the game in a tough enviorment and Jr went god mode for half the game, but as a team we just need to be smarter if we want to get back to the finals and have a chance vs the heat.

tygablood
tygablood 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Honestly I hope Presti doesnt resign Kmart unless Martin signs for less than 5 mil/yr. Reggie Jackson will be better than Kmart in the bench scoring role next year than Kmart has been. Reggie has some Russell Westbrook in him, I think he could be a star.

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @tygablood I agree 100% lamb fits better for reggie anyway, reggies not really a playmaker 

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @Lost Ones  @tygablood Lamb's upside is 100 times higher than Martin and he's on a better contract. Let's give him a run.

Thunder chick 2010
Thunder chick 2010 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Fezzy  @Lost Ones  @FF_pickups  @tygablood i think its kinda hard to figure out a presti move

Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell
Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell 5pts

 @thunder for the win  @Lost Ones  @FF_pickups  @tygablood That doesn't sound like a Presti move at all.

Thunder chick 2010
Thunder chick 2010 5pts

 @Lost Ones  @FF_pickups  @tygablood i dont think lamb will take marins place.  he barely plays minits now.  if we dont resign martin i think presti will bring in another shooting guard

Lost Ones
Lost Ones 5pts

*in before justin*  @FF_pickups  @tygablood

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

More from the Bill Simmons article:

 

Multiple sources have told me that, when Oklahoma City's Sam Presti decided to shop James Harden, Golden State was his first call. He wanted Klay Thompson and a pick. The Warriors would only consider the trade if Oklahoma City took back Biedrins or Jefferson for 2013 expirings, knowing they'd get crushed by the luxury tax in 2014 with Harden's extension plus Steph Curry's extension plus David Lee plus Bogut/Jefferson/Biedrins.14 At that point, Presti went to Washington (offering Harden for Bradley Beal, and unbelievably getting turned down), then Houston (where the shopping heated up). Presti never ended up calling Golden State back.

 

My personal take: If I can somehow turn Klay Thompson into James Harden, I'm doing it and figuring out the tax bullshit later. For the record, they bought the Warriors for $450 million and could get $650 million for them right now. It's just a fact. The Kings got valued at $525 million, for god's sake. The Warriors are a big-market team — big-market teams should always close when moments like "we're offering you James Harden" happen.

Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell
Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @FF_pickups So assuming Martin is not re-signed, which I'd be pretty surprised if he was, Presti probably has big plans/high hopes for the Toronto pick. 

Daniel Hawaii
Daniel Hawaii 5pts

 @Fezzy  @FF_pickups I don't have high hopes at all for the Toronto pick. It's now likely to be in the 9-11 range. This isn't a very good draft to begin with.

Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell
Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell 5pts

 @Daniel Hawaii  @FF_pickups My hopes have definitely dimmed on it, but Presti could still surprise me. I think WCS would be a very strong pick there. 

Perk-Nightmares
Perk-Nightmares 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @FF_pickups  a Curry/Harden backcourt would have been lethal, it also would've been horrible on defense.  However, does Curry sign that deal with harden coming into town.? I'm not so sure about that at all.

yarkmu
yarkmu 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @PerkPose  @FF_pickups i would've liked to see that actually. harden's ability to draw fouls in the open and half court would've meshed extremely well with curry's shooting. 

yarkmu
yarkmu 5pts

 @FF_pickups very true. was speaking moreso as a general fan rather than a thunder loyalist. i'm glad it didn't go down that way. 

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts

 @yarkmu  Yeah, but they are in our conference and could form an incredibly formidable obstacle for us.

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @PerkPose Curry would have been RFA so he wasn't going anywhere.

[coke head]
[coke head] 5pts

 @FF_pickups I think both those deals sound better with the caveat that Kevin Martin isn't retained beyond this season.  If this series of events is true it makes me question the likelihood that Martin will be around next year.

Sigmund
Sigmund 5pts

 @[censored]  @FF_pickups I'd take Lamb and three picks over Beal or Thompson.

Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell
Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell 5pts

 @Sigmund  @[censored]  @FF_pickups Oh don't get me wrong, I'd take Lamb and the picks over them both as well.

Sigmund
Sigmund 5pts

 @Fezzy  @[censored]  @FF_pickups Thompson is almost 3 years older and Beal won't be better than Lamb. Lamb is much more skilled.

Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell
Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell 5pts

 @Sigmund  @[censored]  @FF_pickups In all fairness, you'd take Lamb over almost every non top 10 player in the league.

Legendary_Dork
Legendary_Dork 5pts

 @[censored]  @FF_pickups i think presti was more interested in lamb than kmart to be honest,  martin may be just a one year rental.

Perk-Nightmares
Perk-Nightmares 5pts

 @[censored]  @FF_pickups  meaning Presti truly valued the rookie plus pick more than the vet.?

Perk-Nightmares
Perk-Nightmares 5pts

 @[censored]  @FF_pickups  Hou has been trying to dump Kmart for sometime now.  I'm not so sure Lamb + lotto pick isnt better than Beal though. I think it is.  I think the compensation is better short and long term.  If KMart resigns for cheap, we get a  top 8 pick ,and Lamb becomes are solid shooter/ player i feel like it was the best you can do when you loose harden

Daniel Hawaii
Daniel Hawaii 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Fezzy  @[censored]  @PerkPose  @FF_pickups Actually, I do too. The talent and potential is certainly there. They just need time to gel. 

Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell
Fezzy/FreeAdamsKarasevSnell 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @Daniel Hawaii  @[censored]  @PerkPose  @FF_pickups I think that bench could be a lot better then people might think it would be. 

Daniel Hawaii
Daniel Hawaii 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @[censored]  @PerkPose  @FF_pickups Yeah I really like Bradley Beal. I would've done that trade. I also agree that K-Mart likely won't be back next year unless he takes a big pay cut. So next year's 2nd unit could potentially be Reggie, Lamb, PJIII, Collison and Thabeet. 

Legendary_Dork
Legendary_Dork 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @[censored]  @PerkPose  @FF_pickups wish we could of got parsons from houston meh~

[coke head]
[coke head] 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @PerkPose  @FF_pickups Meaning that assuming K-Mart is gone, we have Lamb and another lotto pick.  I might take either Thompson or Beal over that combination.  Martin almost seems like an incidental addition in this sequence of events.

BallSoHard
BallSoHard 5pts

@FF_pickups I thought the Beal rumor was later reported to be false...

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @BallSoHard  I think the MKG trade rumor was false.

TempBoy Brandon
TempBoy Brandon 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @FF_pickups This freaks me out that Presti almost made those first two deals. The Golden State and Washington deals sound awful to me. Also, Golden State would have been loaded. Wow. As much as I hate losing Harden, our deal from Houston is much better than either of those, in my opinion. But Presti must think a lot of Beal and Thompson, and he knows much more than I do.

Westbrookinit3
Westbrookinit3 5pts

 @TempBoy Brandon If they could have landed the 7th pick in the draft plus Klay then they could have had Klay and Drummond, Klay and Lamb, or Klay and Barnes. Either way that would have been a good deal. It was foolish for the Warriors to turn that down.

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @TempBoy Brandon I would prefer the Beal deal to what we got but I am starting come around on what we got.  If our 2 picks plus Lamb are just average players for their draft slot, I hate the deal but if Presti is the one picking, given his track record, maybe I'm just wrong, he won't pick 'average', he'll pick the best.

 

Legendary_Dork
Legendary_Dork 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @TempBoy Brandon  @FF_pickups shopping doesnt necessarily mean 100% dead on, its to see what the league THINKS hardens worth. 

KidCanada13
KidCanada13 5pts

 @TempBoy Brandon  I agree with everything you just said, except Beal entices me, must be cause I am a Florida fan. 

CLthunderfan
CLthunderfan 5pts

 @TempBoy Brandon  @FF_pickups It never mentions that presti was "close" to make those deals though.  

Legendary_Dork
Legendary_Dork 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

 @FF_pickups "im doing it then figuring out the tax bullshit later"

 

and thus why we arent GM;s   lol

Trackbacks

  1. 3-on-3 with Daily Thunder: thoughts on the Thunder's bench mob - Sports Mania says:
    March 8, 2013 at 6:06 pm

    [...] 3-on3: Bench, Please | Daily Thunder [...]

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