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Nuggets sink the Thunder at the buzzer, 105-103

by Royce Young on March 2, 2013 at 1:16 am 350 Comments

BOX SCORE

Some losses you get over quickly. Some losses linger.

This is one of those losses that will linger.

What a game though. Back and forth, up and down, left and right, up and down again. It was like the Contra code. Lots of screaming, both positively and negatively. You know a game is great when your perspective of what happened was completely influenced by the final score. If Ty Lawson clangs his game-winner and OKC makes one in return, all the transgressions you felt were unforgivable the first 47 minutes, are now magically washed away. But since the Thunder finished on the short end, it’s about what went wrong, who messed up, who is to blame.

That, my friends, is the mark of a great freaking game.

Here’s what sticks out to me most: After a hot start by the Thunder, the first half was a Denver track meet. The Nuggets turned everything into a layup drill. It was like a race to the rim with the winner getting free queso. The Thunder somehow survived 40 first half points in the paint from Denver and got to the locker room down just nine.

OKC came out of the break extremely strong, attacking aggressively and slowing down the Denver rush. George Karl immediately adjusted, inserting Wilson Chandler for Kenneth Faried less than three minutes into the third. And for the entire quarter, the Thunder played two bigs. Denver got back to its ball movement, fast-track ways, extending back to a nine-point lead heading to the fourth quarter as OKC struggled to find anything consistent defensively.

Finally, with 9:44 left, Scott Brooks subbed Kevin Durant for Serge Ibaka, marking the first real long-term commitment to going small for the night (OKC played small for a spurt in the second quarter). With a lineup of Reggie Jackson (then Russell Westbrook), Kevin Martin, Thabo Sefolosha, Durant and Nick Collison, the Thunder were a +7 in less than three minutes to cut the Denver lead to two. At that point, it was game on. Everything finally slowed down and it was about which team was going to execute and finish.

Obviously, the big question is, why wait so long to go small when it very clearly was the most effective lineup against what Karl was using? In Brooks’ defense, Durant is really his only legit stretch 4 and this wasn’t the type of game where you’re wise to commit him to playing 45 minutes. So Brooks was probably just trying to get by until he felt like he could go all in for the rest of the quarter.

And really, it damn near worked. The Lawson shot and the Wilson Chandler Shuffle aside, Westbrook missed five big free throws, Ibaka had a really dumb offensive foul that resulted in two Denver free throws, and KD went just 1-4 in the last two minutes. Those are the kind of transgressions I’m talking about — those go your way and Brooks is looking a whole lot better with his strategy.

I wrote about the feast or famine nature the Thunder have experienced as of late, and here was a big opportunity to cleanse a bit of that. The game got white-knuckle tight with 4:07 left and the score knotted at 96-96. Westbrook was ballin’ out in a big way, and OKC survived awful bench play to be right where it needed to be. And here’s how the Thunder executed the last four minutes:

  • 4:00: Westbrook missed 17-foot jumper (96-96)
  • 3:16: Westbrook makes one of two free throws (97-96)
  • 2:49: Westbrook makes two of two free throws (99-96)
  • 2:12: Westbrook misses seven-footer runner (99-97)
  • 2:01: Durant misses 10-foot jumper (99-97)
  • 1:40: Durant misses 12-foot jumper (99-99)
  • 1:15: Durant makes two of two free throws (101-101)
  • 0:33: Durant misses 17-foot jumper (101-101)
  • 0:17: Durant makes five-foot runner (103-103)

In the last four minutes, that’s nine possessions, with four shots going to Westbrook, five to Durant. In that order. Now, I want Kevin Durant as my closer any place, any time, but this has become a bit of a trend lately for OKC. We saw it against Houston, against Golden State, against Cleveland, last time against Denver — the Thunder like to force-feed Durant in isolation. I get it; it’s hard to running any kind of ball movement set in those late few minutes. You didn’t see Denver doing it either and that’s what they live on.

But I do find it a bit curious for Westbrook, a guy who is having some kind of night, to go from 100 to zero just like that as he devotedly feeds KD like a good little trooper. Do I want Westbrook doing more? Eh, I don’t know. I definitely prefer Durant. I’ve seen KD sink too many of those gorgeous step-back iso jumpers to doubt him. But at the same time, the recent results do make you wonder if the Thunder are missing a little diversity. They had a little taste of that with Harden. Kevin Martin provides them none.

Again, is this a concern, or a blip on the radar? I’m not exactly sure. But I do know that this game tonight is precisely the kind of game the Thunder will be facing in the postseason. High intensity, hot atmosphere, big pressure, huge moments. The Thunder are definitely battle-tested and proven in those situations. At least last year’s Thunder were. Which I think is the cause for some concern.

NOTES:

  • Starters: Thunder 94, Nuggets 34. Benches: Nuggets 71, Thunder 11. And that was actually somewhat of an improvement from earlier in the game when it was 60-4 in favor of Denver.
  • A lot of that came from Wilson Chandler who inherited the Corey Brewer honorary Torch the Thunder badge. He went for a career-high 35 tonight, hitting 6-7 from 3.
  • One thing about Brooks and lineups: It ‘s so clear that he only likes to go small when he’s either a) absolutely, entirely forced to or b) can dictate matchups with it. When he simply has the opportunity to just match up with the other side, he consistently stays big. Like he’s trying to fly in the face of common sense or something. Thinking outside of the box, but overthinking outside of the box. It’s weird.
  • Another thing on big/small lineups: The most consistent gripe I got tonight was about Brooks, with Perk being a very close second. There seems to be some confusion for some about what exactly a “small” lineup entails. It isn’t just removing Perk. It’s about the combination of so-called “big” people. In that, Brooks often plays two of them, whether it’s Perk and Ibaka, Perk and Collison or Ibaka and Collison. It’s such a cop-out to say, “Perk should never play against Denver!” Because it’s not about Perk. It’s about who he’s playing with.
  • Related: Perk was a +5 tonight.
  • Oh, Derek Fisher. He played five minutes in the second quarter and was a -7 which is incredible, because I could’ve sworn it was a -70. He airballed a 3 by about 30 feet and didn’t really do anything. I don’t know why he played. On that topic…
  • When it comes to the Thunder bench, honestly, what does Fisher add? I’m not trying to rip on him just to do it, but seriously, what does he bring extra to the table? If it’s spot-up shooting, doesn’t OKC have that with Martin already? If it’s guard play, don’t they have that with Jackson? If it’s defense, well, we know it’s not defense. Why would minutes go to him and not someone like Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones or Ronnie Brewer, players that bring something different to the floor? I don’t get it.
  • Related: Why no Ronnie Brewer? Wouldn’t he have helped in a few situations where Denver was playing Chandler/Iguodala at power forward?
  • I’m just not sure what to think about Kevin Martin. I fear the postseason, I really do. He hit a big 3 in the fourth quarter, which was great, but those were his only three points of the game. The guy has the ability to carry an offense on his own. But sometimes, while trying to fit alongside two other great scorers, it’s just uncomfortable.
  • Another thing I didn’t like, that sort of might contradict that previous statement: Martin played just 24 minutes, which is fewer than usual. Normally he gets about 30. Related: Fisher played five minutes. I think you get my point here.
  • It’s pretty clear Brooks prefers Reggie Jackson over Fisher. So that’s kind of settled, I think. Jackson checked in alone tonight and played 16 minutes, some in the fourth quarter even. Fisher didn’t play at all in the second half.
  • These are the kinds of games that illustrate why Thunder fans love Westbrook so stinking much. The way he competed reminded me some of Game 4 of the Finals. With the arena booing him on every touch, he came out scorching and never stopped coming. He had 38, six rebounds and five assists and just played his butt off. If you watch Westbrook and can open your mind and appreciate him for the competitor he is, it’s these types of games that make it hard to really be that critical of him. He just plays with so much effing heart.
  • Thabo went for eight points, 12 rebounds and five assists. Weird. But he did miss two super simple layups in the fourth, which were important.
  • The Thunder allowed 40 points in the paint and 14 fast break points in the first half. The second half, 20 points in the paint and six fast break points. Adjustment, or just the nature of the game?
  • A game like this is precisely why I have my doubts about the Nuggets in the playoffs. Can they really rely on a step-up performance like they got from Chandler for four games in a series? They got one from Brewer last time, but who’s next? And can they get 12 of those step-up performances to reach the Finals? Just doesn’t seem likely to me.
  • It’s a shame the Thunder lost this game, because I fully intended to write 1,500 words about how freaking spectacular KD’s up-and-under was. Feels like forever ago now. I loved Tirico’s call though. “COME ONNNNNNNNN!!!!’
  • I’d have a hard time guarding Chandler too because I’d just be straight at that face in the middle of his neck. Hypnotizing.
  • No fireworks between Westbrook and Rocky, though the Nuggets did a splendid job of having fun with it. Rocky spent pregame flexing at Westbrook, then when he came out for his halfcourt shot, he had security lining the paint. It was great.
  • I know this isn’t true, but is Perk OKC’s best isolation defender? On a guard, on a forward, on whoever, he seems to consistently get stops. So basically I’m asking, should he have been guarding Ty Lawson on that last shot? I’ll show myself out.
  • KD was hit with his 12th technical foul of the season. Somewhat of a weak one, depending on how intentional it was that he flung the ball into the stands.
  • Thunder defenders are into this thing now of yelling “HELL NO” when a guy shoots a jumper that might not be expected to make it. Example: Faried takes an 18-footer, Perk yells “HELL NO.”
  • The Thunder are now 4-5 in the alternate uniforms, and 2-5 on the road. Meaning 31 percent of OKC’s losses this season have come in those uniforms.

Next up: Clippers at Staples on Sunday.

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ThunderRegulator
ThunderRegulator 5pts

The best point on this article is about Fisher.  I truly think Jones, Lamb, or Brewer would give much better minutes than him.  I would love to see Lamb incorporated into the offense more.  The kid is a pure bread scorer, just hasn't had the game time experience yet.  I honestly believe that Lamb could easily end up being a better fit in our offense than Martin.  (Def. not saying that he should replace Martin, just that his roof is sky high and could be a big piece for our team.)

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts

Is being 'right' more important to Brooks than winning?  Or is he so scared of a backlash from the players if he changed lineups that he won't do it? 

fireBrooks
fireBrooks 5pts

 @FF_pickups Part of it is he's scared of giving up the winning ways and trend of the last 2 years. Just hard in general for people to change when they don't have to. But when most people have already figured out where the Thunders need improvement and the coach blatantly commits the same mistakes over and over, there's no more excuse 

This comment has been deleted

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts

 @MJOKC He may seriously be scared that Perkins will become a disruption for the team.  Or he may just be so arrogant that it's his way or no way.  Or he may just be an idiot.  But it almost has to be one of those three.

Legendary_Dork
Legendary_Dork 5pts

http://dailythunder.com/2013/03/saturday-morning-cartoons-dream-shake/#respond

Blood-Game
Blood-Game 5pts

Am think real hard here (of why brooks keep being so stubborn). If this this guy is not playing fool to catch wise, and by that i mean, he has to be taking teams best shot in the regular season and see what they're doing and then counter it in the playoffs. If that's not the case, then we should all get ready for some disappointment. That's the only way i can think about what's going on

El Prez
El Prez 5pts

Sigh.

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @blood-game Down 2-0 against the Spurs, Brooks gave a pregame speech where he said "The only adjustment we are making is we are going to play better" and he didn't change his rotations at all.  Now he did switch Sefolosha onto Parker and he had us begin switching on PnR late in the shot clock but he absolutely refused to mess with rotations.  We won that series.  He tried the same type of tactics against the Heat but it didn't work.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @FF_pickups   Doug Collins, in his post-game rant the other day, said something like, "Basketball is a simple game.  The game usually goes to the aggressor."  The majority of the times the Thunder lose...that's exactly what I see.  We become too matter-of-fact in our play and make half-azzed attempts on passing, rebounding, getting back on defense, etc...

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

He also tinkered with some things in the Memphis series in regards to defending Randolph. Even Jon Barry was commenting on our strategy last night. Brooks obviously agreed with us in that Fisher never saw the floor in the second half.

Blood-Game
Blood-Game 5pts

Thinking*

okcjim
okcjim 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Shabazz Mohammad's shooting stroke is so similar to Hardens.

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 15 Like

I used to defend Scott Brooks. I'm not sure I can anymore. I've never seen a coach so relentlessly stubborn. Why in the world would you put Derek Fisher on the floor in this game when Russell and Reggie were playing well? Why would you do this against the deepest team in the league on their court where every possession is a track meet? What possible logic could go into that decision? Why not perhaps spot Brewer a few minutes in this game? And why is Liggins in Tulsa for this two game road swing---when he has the exact body type and mobility which might have proved helpful this week-end? Why not double dip on that last Denver offensive possession and have both Thabo and Brewer on the floor together? Is there an NBA rule which says teams from Oklahoma aren't allowed to have two defensive stoppers on the floor simultaneously? Is that in small print in the new CBA? OKC just won't be able to outrun old teams like Dallas and the Lakers in the first two round this season. Brooks won't be able to just say to KD and Russ, " Go win for me." Some coaching adjustments will be required. Timely adjustments. Not adjustments ten minutes after the fact. Quite frankly---if what we saw last night is going to be the norm from this point forward...I think we would have been better off just keeping Maynor. It's makes no sense to not use Brewer--at least a little.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @El Prez   Defending and blaming are not the same thing.  Like you, I wondered why we didn't use Brewer in the 4th quarter last night.  My reasoning for putting him in was...he's a veteran so he knows 90% of what he needs to do...both teams are gassed due to the altitude so injecting someone with a fresh set of wheels may have tipped the balance one way or the other...and nothing we'd done to that point had shut down Chandler.  However...I don't go to Thunder practices.  I don't see how guys perform against KD and Russ, so all I have to go on is what I see as an outsider.  I may not agree with Coach Brooks' choices, but I'm not stupid enough to think I'm smarter or more qualified to make decisions for this team.  Long ago, I came to peace with the fact that Brooks and Presti are not the type of guys who go to the racetrack and bet their $20 on the long-shot in hopes of getting a 5-1 payoff.  They're totally satisfied with betting that $20 on the favorite and getting a $2 return. 

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Okay---I can buy into why Brewer perhaps wasn't used. But that in no way explains why Derek Fisher got minutes of PT in the first half against the deepest, fastest, and most explosive team in the NBA on their home court. That's not a money play at the track. That's just stubborn. Why would you insert your oldest, most immobile player in that situation--in that setting? That's totally counter with saying Brooks and Presti are playing the odds type guys? There's no way that's the money play. Take a look at the top five teams in the West right now....OKC will not have the luxury of playing an old, slow team in the second round this season like last season.

El Prez
El Prez 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

Actually...Perk was either +5 or +7 after his first shift. I noted it 'somewhat' mentally. Again...Perk isn't the coach.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @El Prez   "Derek Fisher should not have seen the floor last night..."

 

I'm not sure we could have made that prediction ahead of time, although we got a spanking last night in case we doubted it.  Eh...lesson learned....I hope.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @nbapianomom    I think Reggie and Fish might be a really good combination, too.  Unfortunately, last nigh was not one of those times.

El Prez
El Prez 5pts

Playing at home against a New Orleans team which was without Davis and Gordon is not the same deal as playing against the deepest team in the NBA on their court---where they are now 25-3. To me--the 71-11 beach stat is misleading because in all essence what Denver has are 10 starters basically---depending on the night and the matchup. Derek Fisher should not have seen the floor last night, and if Scott Brooks has insecurity issues---then he's in the wrong profession.

nbapianomom
nbapianomom 5pts

 @MJOKC  @El Prez  @TaoMaas

 They are two totally different teams.  It seems though that Brooks does like to trust his players.  I'm glad Fisher sat the second half.

nbapianomom
nbapianomom 5pts

 @El Prez@TaoMaas 

I didn't like Fisher's minutes either last night, but Reggie and Fisher did a good job playing opposite from each other on Wednesday night.  Maybe Brooks was thinking that they might do the same thing and get some ball movement and some points.  That would be playing the odds.

 

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @El Prez   I once went to a workshop where we had a day to submit examples of "what was I thinking?".  If Brooks were to attend a similar gathering, I think last night's use of Fish might be one of his offerings.  lol  Anybody who says they could have predicted how badly Denvers' bench would have out-played the Thunder is a liar.  lol

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 10 Like

 @El Prez I've never in all my sports fandom been so frustrated by a coach

fireBrooks
fireBrooks 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @FF_pickups  @El Prez Brooks is not dumb, the way he caters to his players tantrums to keep his job shows that. But he is very insecure and that affects his reasoning, his ability to think on the bench. He knows he's not nearly as talented a coach as his players are talented players. He knows he's the Thunder's biggest liability, the biggest obstacle to them winning a championship. So he naturally searches for comfort in veterans like Perkins or Fisher, subconsciously hoping that their experience, championship pedigree will hide and bail him out. Sure he wants to win, but not as much as he wants to keep his job. This is the difference between a coach like Brooks and Popovich. character guys like Popovich will do the right thing regardless of what it means for their personal situation.

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts

 @TaoMaas "You're half right...but then, that's pretty typical."

 

Here we go with the jabs. 

 

"Brooks has to worry about his job more than Pop and makes decisions accordingly."

 

Right.  Let me spell this out for you.  Brooks and Popovich are presented with a decision.  Popovich asks "What choice gives my team the best chance of winning?"  Brooks asks "What choice gives me the least chance of being fired?"  One is choosing what is best for the team, the other is choosing what is best for himself.  Therefore, he is putting his own self above the team and you are okay with that.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @FF_pickups    You're half right...but then, that's pretty typical.  YES...Brooks has to worry about his job more than Pop and makes decisions accordingly.  DUH!

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TaoMaas  @fireBrooks "One has job security...the other does not."

 

So you are saying that Brooks is making self serving decisions over what is best for the team and you think that's perfectly fine

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @fireBrooks    You're missing a HUGE difference between Brooks and Popovich.  One has no championships...the other has 4, while riding the backs of Hall of Fame players.  One has job security...the other does not.

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts

 @fireBrooks  You have a really great take but I don't think that I agree with all of it.  But it is certainly a great post.

Blood-Game
Blood-Game 5pts

http://dailythunder.com/2013/03/saturday-morning-cartoons-dream-shake/

OBoyzOld Man
OBoyzOld Man 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 11 Like

Dear Fish:  Enjoy the time with your fam in LA this weekend.  Feel free to skip tomorrow's shootaround and pregame warmups.  We'll save you a seat at the end of the bench for whenever you make it to the game.  Or, if the grass needs mowing at home, we'll understand. Really.  Bless you. 

Blood-Game
Blood-Game 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@OBoyzOld Man there has to be a better job out there for fish man

OBoyzOld Man
OBoyzOld Man 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 7 Like

 @blood-game  @OBoyzOld

 Respect his experience, like his attitude as a teammate.  Don't like watching the rainbow airball and no defense.  Currently shooting 0-for-the-season.  Makes perfect sense as a third emergency guard for less than $300,000 rest of season.  Makes no sense to be on the court in the first half last night.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @OBoyzOld Man   Uh..yeah...that rainbow sucked big time.  I think Fish will get better, but still...it needs to get a LOT better if he wants to steal time from Thabo or Reggie.  Hell, at least they hit the rim, right?  LOL

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @blood-game   There is a better job for Fish than bench-warmer.  It's Asst. Head Coach of the Thunder when Mo Cheeks gets a head coaching job.

Blood-Game
Blood-Game 5pts

Is brooks the most stubborn or the dumbest coach?

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @blood-game   Neither.  Although, if you added "most successful over the last 3 seasons" as a category, I may have voted.

Blood-Game
Blood-Game 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@TaoMaas the most succesf coach over the last three seasons is eric spo. NBA finals and NBA championsbip.

nbapianomom
nbapianomom 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @TaoMaas  @FF_pickups

 In defense of @FF_pickups , he was only wiki to state the type of debate tactic that was being used.  Wiki itself had nothing to do with the content of the tactic.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @FF_pickups   Um....Wikipedia?  Seriously?  LOL LOL  We're Thunder fans.  Come back when you've got more than that.  ESPN is the world-wide standard for sport coverage and I don't even accept their view of the Thunder because I know they're only reading stats and not watching the games and looking at the players' reactions.  Do you think ESPN or Wikipedia saw Serge yelling, "Russ!" last night after Serge screwed up and was wanting to talk to Russ about it?...only to see that Russ was pizzed off and ignoring him?  Fans notice that stuff.  The national media does not.  Don't talk to me about Wikipedia.

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts

 @TaoMaas  You are using the 'aurgument from authority' fallacy.  Brooks is an expert

Brooks doesn't change rotations

therefore changing rotations is incorrect

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts

 @TaoMaas "Eh...the regular season and consistancy of play says you're wrong"

 

Talent doesn't equal production but it is strongly correlated.  The Spurs and the Bulls are great examples.  Their coaches fingerprints are all over their team.  You can take away their best player and still be able to compete for a top 4 seed because their coaches are that good.  Miami and OKC are on the other end of the spectrum.  Their teams are dominated by talent. If you put Popovich or Thibodeau as the OKC coach, we'd have two banners right now.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @MJOKC   YOU might be saying it's a combination of coaches and players...which I am, btw...but others want to credit KD/Russ when the Thunder succeed and blame Brooks when they fail.  It's not that simple.  If it were, every team in the NBA would have a championship because every Joe Blow on the internet would have the answer.

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TaoMaas  @MJOKC "Sorry...but you guys are flip-flopping nearly every post.  You want to say that Brooks is riding off his talent, but Jackson wasn't and Popovich and Spoelstra aren't."

 

Jackson, Popovich and Spoelstra have a combined 14 titles and Brooks has zero.  It's an embarrassment that you are even putting them in the same conversation.  When Brooks wins a title, then you can puff your chest out but I feel 100% confident that unless he changes his rotations, he's never going to win a title in OKC.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @FF_pickups  @MJOKC   Guys...if you need to be splitting hairs about whether Popovich earn his reputation with his young trio which won championships...or his old trio which has only put up the best regular seasons in the NBA over the last 3 years...you really don't have much.  Give it up...it's a combination of coach and players.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @FF_pickups  Eh...the regular season and consistancy of play says you're wrong.  The post-season might differ.

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @MJOKC  @TaoMaas I think he was talking about 35 year old Duncan and Ginobili because he referenced their failure to make the finals the last 3 seasons as a support of Brooks being in the same conversation as a Popovich

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @MJOKC  Sorry...but you guys are flip-flopping nearly every post.  You want to say that Brooks is riding off his talent, but Jackson wasn't and Popovich and Spoelstra aren't.  I remember when our previous coach was so abrasive that his best player tried to choke him out.  And you guys think we're worse off with Brooks?  Seriously???

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TaoMaas "The Spurs have had talent equal to...or better than the Thunder"

 

I totally disagree with this.  KD-Westbrook-Harden dwarfs Duncan-Ginobili-Parker at this point in their careers

 

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @FF_pickups   That's fine...I'll accept that yardstick, too.  The Spurs have had talent equal to...or better than the Thunder or Heat the last 3 years.  Their record in the regular season supports this.  Yet they haven't made the championship any of those years.  Is their failure due to bad coaching or lack of talent?

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TaoMaas You have to use the talent level as the base line and how the team performs relative to that baseline is due to the coach.  The Thunder have a championship caliber roster and have gotten bounced 2 years in a row by worse teams, imo.  And the difference in both series was that Brooks didn't adjust his rotations to optimize against the other team.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @FF_pickups   I'll accept that yardstick.  Is the jewelry due to the coach or the players?

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @blood-game    You guys need to get together and decide if the Thunder's success it due to KD and Russ, if it's coaching, or if it's a combination of the two because  you keep flip-flopping depending upon which viewpoint you want to support.  When we talk about the Thunder, it's all KD/Russ...but when we talk about the Heat or the Spurs, it's all coaching and has nothing to do with Hall of Fame players. 

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TaoMaas  @blood-game "So why do we make excuses for Spoelstra, but not for Brooks?"

 

One has jewelry. 

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @blood-game   Very true! So why do we make excuses for Spoelstra, but not for Brooks?  Are we fans of the Thunder or the Heat?  I don't think Brooks is the ideal coach....I just think it's unfair to blame him for our losses, but give absolutely no credit for our successes.

Blood-Game
Blood-Game 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@FF_pickups @TaoMaas likd i said pickups, HE'S the coach of the team. Than man downright out-coached brooks the last six games we've played them

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @TaoMaas  @blood-game Kenny Smith said 'systems are for guys who CAN'T play', i.e. the role players need a system which is going to be directly related to the coach.  Brooks doesn't make Durant or Westbrook good, they ARE good.  It's his job to get a system in place that allows our role players to thrive...just like Spoelstra has done in Miami.

Blood-Game
Blood-Game 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

@TaoMaas doesn't matter, he's the coach of the team.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @blood-game   So, so true.  Is it Spoelstra...James/Wade/Bosh...or a mixture which gets game-winning results from Battier, Chalmers,Miller, etc...?

This comment has been deleted

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts

 @TaoMaas "Give me the name of the current Phil Jackson that the Thunder can afford and obtain."

 

I'm not sure why you think that it either has to be the best coach of all time or Scott Brooks?  Why can't it be something less than Phil but better than Brooks?

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @FF_pickups   My point is...is Jackson willing to coach the Thunder?  If not, then we're just living in the past.  Give me the name of the current Phil Jackson that the Thunder can afford and obtain.

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts

 @TaoMaas "Nice dodge, but the standards wasn't "coaches who were better than Brooks".  It was "coaches who are the equal of Phil Jackson".  Take your time...I'll wait for your reply."

 

Phil's the best.  I'm not sure what your point is.

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @FF_pickups   Nice dodge, but the standards wasn't "coaches who were better than Brooks".  It was "coaches who are the equal of Phil Jackson".  Take your time...I'll wait for your reply.

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TaoMaas Presti just extended Brooks, we aren't getting a 'Phil" for a long time. But if you want a hypothetical list of better coaches than Brooks, it's going to be a long,long list

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @FF_pickups  Dude...I am 150% with you!  Please...tell me who the next Phil Jackson is and I will back you up to the hilt!!!  Save us...share your wisdom and name him!  I'm ready!

FF_pickups
FF_pickups 5pts like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @TaoMaas  @MJOKC Del Harris failed to win in 1999 with Shaq and Kobe, Phil comes in and promptly 3-peats.  Brooks is our Del Harris. We need our Phil

TaoMaas
TaoMaas 5pts

 @MJOKC    Sorry...but, BS!  By your yardstick, Phil Jackson is just a coach who only won rings because he had Jordan/Pippin and Kobe/Shaq. Is that really what you think?  I sure as hell don't think that.

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