Bobcats targeting James Harden for the No. 2 pick?

Former Thunder assistant general manager and current Bobcats GM Rich Cho is trying to get back one of the picks he helped out on. Via Jeff Goodman of CBSSports.com, Charlotte is targeting James Harden and dangling the No. 2 pick as bait.

The Charlotte Bobcats are eyeing the possibility of dealing the No. 2 overall pick in a trade that would bring a more established player, multiple sources told CBSSports.com.

Rod Higgins and Rich Cho understand that the Bobcats need more than just a talented rookie, whether it be Bradley Beal, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Harrison Barnes, Thomas Robinson or even Andre Drummond — to make the Bobcats competitive from their laughingstock of a season.

One source said that Oklahoma City’s James Harden could be in play due to the Thunder’s salary situation following next season. GM Sam Presti already has Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook on the books for more than $29 million next season — and both Harden and Serge Ibaka will command huge contracts after the 2012-13 campaign.

Quick take: Good try, Bobcats.

Thunderman
2012-06-15 23:12:38
Why give up a known commodity for an unknown one?
YoniFromIsrael
2012-06-14 12:42:13
This is the most ignorant shit ive heard in years
alvarex
2012-06-14 12:43:05
So the Bobcats want Harden?   Who doesn't?!  Nothing new here.
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 12:43:19
This is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth, even if it is not true. I hope it doesn't sully our win tonight.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 12:43:54
So the Bobcats want to trade an undrafted, untested rookie for the reigning 6th man of the year. Good deal, I say
diddoff
2012-06-14 12:47:40
 @alvarex THIS!
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 12:48:56
Consider the contract and the guy making the pick (Sam Presti), it's uber tempting.
diddoff
2012-06-14 12:49:13
The source is probably a non-involved team's executive who's assuming that the Thunder MIGHT let him walk this summer.
OBoyzOld Man
2012-06-14 12:49:22
Unnamed source = LeBron.
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 12:50:05
 @diddoff Vice-President of Payroll's son's friend.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 12:50:37
did you guys see this quote from D-Wade:   "Being in Oklahoma kind of dims KD's light a little bit, not him on the basketball court but him off the court. There’s not a lot of exciting things going on out here (in OKC)."   D.Wade is a washed up, has-been.  I couldn't stand the whiner before I read this quote but now, he's crossed the line.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 12:50:42
 @OBoyzOld Man also quoted as saying we were renting perk
OBoyzOld Man
2012-06-14 12:51:23
Tony Parker, Manu, Dirk and Kobe have been taking turns calling Rich Cho, trying to impersonate Presti, saying "Sam, you got a deal."
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 12:51:36
 @FF_pickups It's how KD likes it. He wants to be the best basketball player ever, not the most well-known and publicized basketball player ever
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 12:51:42
Sam Presti says "HA!!!" *hangs up phone*
cleandoe
2012-06-14 12:52:05
 @JimboSlice Bleacher Report Reference?
dancassidy35
2012-06-14 12:52:51
Full disclaimer here, I do not want/think this could/would happen. However, I just felt like proposing it for conversations sake.    It would be interesting to see something along the lines of trading Ibaka and Harden in the draft and in return ending up with Beal and Robinson. I'd assume we could also get a solid bench player/later 1st round pick as well in trading them. Benefit would be an easier monetary situation for a few years. Downside is obvious and heartbreaking. It'd be kinda cool to see what that kind of a lineup would look like.   Just food for thought, won't and shouldn't happen    
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 12:53:00
 @cleandoe I never read bleacher report, so if it is a reference, I have no clue as to what lol
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 12:53:05
Trade makes no sense for OKC or Charlotte. It's just Charlotte driving value up on a pick they don't want. Ibaka could be traded, but not Harden.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 12:53:56
 @Jooseppi  makes no sense??  okay...
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 12:54:10
Presti must be a Jedi, because he may start off dangling James Harden, but somehow warp the trade into trading Lazar Hayward and a ship-in-a-bottle for the #2 pick.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 12:54:16
 @FF_pickups You're welcome :)
OBoyzOld Man
2012-06-14 12:54:19
 @FF_pickups Apparently WINNING is boring to some folks.   Suggest the fans let Wade know how we feel about him tonight, ala Artest.
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 12:54:59
 @OBoyzOld Man  @FF_pickups I shall do so....from my living room.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 12:55:22
 @JimboSlice lol you could be a writer then. great minds think alike...   http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1211194-the-untouchables-1-player-from-every-team-who-is-off-the-trading-block
EatSleepThunder
2012-06-14 12:55:36
 @DustinMcWilliams Thats a terrible trade. Why in the world would we give up a superstar for a unproven rookie.
C-Wil
2012-06-14 12:55:48
Harden has a chance to be THE BEST shooting guard in the NBA in the next couple years. Kobe is getting older and will be done in about two years, Wade is already 30 and breaking down. Harden will just be entering his prime by then. He has all the qualities to be "the man" on any team. The question is, does he want to? Does he want to stay here, coming off the bench, but winning multiple championships as a result or does he want to show the world he can be THE franchise player on a team and mold his own legacy? It must be very tempting to think Harden could have more power and say-so within an organization if we was the #1 guy. Teams are already vying for his services as we speak, imagine he might be thinking about the potential to make max money and have a team built around him, HE IS THAT GOOD.    But I want him here, don't do it beard!! It's all trickery! 
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 12:56:13
 @EatSleepThunder My bad. I forgot how the ship-in-a-bottle averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds per night.
Arent
2012-06-14 12:56:37
Trade Harder for an untested pick? Great! Who should we pick? Robert Traylor? Sam Bowie? Ryan Leaf? 
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 12:59:09
In other news, Toronto confirms they have traded the No. 8 pick for Andrew Bynum.
ThunderBelize
2012-06-14 12:59:09
 @FF_pickups It is uber tempting... I am sure that Presti is, at the very least, dedicating some time among the brain-trust to such a possibility. Know this though: that in this process Presti will settle for nothing short of robbing the Bob's of their next 1st round picks and cash considerations for the next decade. Thats how Presti rolls.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 12:59:34
completely unrelated but i found this absolutely hillarious   last night rapper and singer chris brown and drake got into an altercation at a night club....blah blah blah who cares   but what matters here is the celebrities that were in the club: Club Guests - Rihanna, Chris Brown, Fabolous, Meek Mill, Ne-Yo, Trey Songz, Drake, Maino, Teyana Taylor, TONY PARKER & 2 Chainz.   HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
ThunderBelize
2012-06-14 12:59:58
 @FF_pickups * Next three first round picks....
f5alcon
2012-06-14 13:01:37
 @OBoymuzik probably rihanna related, all of those guys probably are in her pants
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:02:06
 @OBoymuzik Best part is Drake through a bottle behind a wall of security, and managed to cut up Brown's chin
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:02:34
 @FREE_COLE  @OBoymuzik Ashley's got incredible aim.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:02:58
I'm going to be honest, as much as I love Harden (see: avatar), it's not a horrible trade. Your obviously not getting anyone in the draft better then Harden, but it is considered a deep draft, and getting a quality player (which plenty would be available at 2) for 3-4 years cheap, while keeping Ibaka and preserving your cap space. Not horrible.   That being said, no way in Hell it happens.
shiki
2012-06-14 13:03:22
if you can play final every year,you can earn enough money for luxury tax.I cannot find any west teams can stop us to play finals,so why do we trade Harden?
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:03:29
Doubt they do this trade at all, and think harden is staying, but if we got Drummond and he lived up to his potential, we are probably not losing for a long long time
diddoff
2012-06-14 13:04:14
 @shiki Because sources say so! Sources are always right.
shiki
2012-06-14 13:06:10
harden's value is that he can make our bench players better.it is very important because we cannot sign some expensive players.
f5alcon
2012-06-14 13:06:15
 @shiki cant really project more than a year or 2 what some teams will look like.
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:06:21
 @OBoymuzik Drake's real name is Aubrey
f5alcon
2012-06-14 13:06:40
 @thelaughingwiseman like our owner
OBoyzOld Man
2012-06-14 13:06:53
 @EatSleepThunder  @DustinMcWilliams   Not sure I would count Lazar as a superstar YET.  :)
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:07:05
What if there was a Big like Greg Monroe in the draft?  I would pull the trigger!
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:07:10
 @thelaughingwiseman  @OBoymuzik Ashley/Aubrey I'm smart.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:07:23
 @cleandoe lol wow, I would say yeah great minds think alike, except we're talking about bleacher report here..
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:08:10
 @thelaughingwiseman what if there was a big man like a combination of all the best parts of Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, and Tony Parker? I would also pull the trigger!
OBoyzOld Man
2012-06-14 13:08:42
 @OBoymuzik   ...and Lil Wayne was hiding under a table, complaining about the service.
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 13:08:55
 @JimboSlice  @thelaughingwiseman Shawn Bradley is in this draft?
diddoff
2012-06-14 13:08:58
 @JimboSlice  @thelaughingwiseman McGee is free agent
f5alcon
2012-06-14 13:09:09
they would have to sweeten the pot to the point where it was bad for them, something like kemba walker, biyombo and the number 2 pick for russ.     If we really wanted to trade him I am sure the hornets would part with the number 1 pick.  
f5alcon
2012-06-14 13:09:43
 @OBoyzOld Man  he wasnt hiding, he is just that short
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:09:54
 @f5alcon I'm pretty sure the Hornets already agreed to trade the No. 1 pick for Tyler Hansbrough.
ChilamBilam12
2012-06-14 13:10:13
can i just go ahead and throw out a universal hell no to this idea Thunder Nation?.. not only is there very little the Bobcats could offer in way of a trade, but i don't think Presti or the organization could stomach sending Harden off to his doom leading the worst franchise in the NBA under guidance of the greatest player and worst GM to ever head a professional basketball team
SB718
2012-06-14 13:10:53
 @JimboSlice  @thelaughingwiseman Can he sing like Clay Aiken too?
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:10:58
 @diddoff  @JimboSlice McGee has some head issues, I'd like the Thunder to look at him though if he is a free Agent, but his defense seems shady.  He's just a tall Shot blocker right now.  Greg Monroe is Perkins 2.0  He can post up and play above average defense something the Thunder need
Skyline
2012-06-14 13:11:08
Presti and Cho have a good relationship, right?... Presti lets this trade rumor out as a way to leverage the resigning of Harden by the Thunder. Nothing could be worse for a rising NBA talent as to be traded to the Bobcats.   Now Presti goes to Harden with a good contract, not max but good that fits with the Thunder. Harden and his agent know that Presti has the Jeff Green card in his pocket too. Make the offer and if Harden doesn't accept he runs the risk of being traded.   Either way this can work in the Thunder's advantage to resign Harden.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:11:24
Again, it isn't a horrible trade for the Thunder, even though I doubt they do it. Makes it easier to sign Ibaka and keep cap flexibility while also getting a cheap stud at #2 in the draft.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:11:34
 @shiki Because the person out of Charlotte that planted this wants you to believe it must be done.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:11:47
 @ThunderStruck2412 Who do they draft at two? That is where this falls apart.
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:11:59
 @JimboSlice Come on man, i'm no joking around or being sarcastic.  What if there was an other copy of Greg Monroe in the Draft?  Would you not trade Harden away for him?
dancassidy35
2012-06-14 13:12:44
 @thelaughingwiseman  @JimboSlice Would have to be more than just a Monroe clone
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:13:23
 @SB718  @thelaughingwiseman Make it James Brown and I'll throw in Durant AND Sam Presti
SB718
2012-06-14 13:14:38
 @JimboSlice  @thelaughingwiseman I'll throw in a Foreman grill and a used DirecTV satellite, you give me Rumble and you got a deal.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:15:12
 @Jooseppi  @ThunderStruck2412 Beal probably.  Maybe Drummond and bank on his potential working out
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:15:55
Realistically, what player in the draft would it take to trade Harden for the #2 pick?
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:16:33
 @Jooseppi This is widely considered a deep draft, and the Thunder would have the luxury to draft based on immediate need (cheap contract for 3-4 years). Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and Thomas Robinson would be NBA ready and have a ton of room to grow with the organization. Beal even would fit in. I mean you're getting a quality player that will be able to jump in for cheap and have no burden whatsoever playing alongside Westbrook and Durant, plus you are able to resign Ibaka. It's not the worst scenario. And actually it's better then just resigning one of Harden/Ibaka and letting the other go for nothing.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:16:37
 @thelaughingwiseman  @diddoff  @JimboSlice Except for the part where Monroe is literally nothing like Perkins and McGee is gonna get big money (like any big man who can walk and chew gum at the same time in the NBA do), you have a point.
Tequila or Failure
2012-06-14 13:16:45
This makes a lot of sense to me. I suggested this exact trade here a week or so ago when Charlotte let it be known they were shopping the pick. Obviously would reduce our chances of a chip for next year, but for the following 4-yrs, I'd take a core of KD, Russ, Serge, Beal, 5-6 mil/yr wing scorer X, Nick & Perk, over KD, Russ, Harden, Nick, Perk and a bunch of D-League talent.
ThunderBelize
2012-06-14 13:16:48
 @C-Wil Prediction... Harden signs with the thunder for a 3 or 4 year extension at an acceptable price for him and the team. He then rides the team for the guaranteed duration of the KD/RW tenure and likely another couple of championship runs. Then he darts for the big free agent contract his 7/8 year FA. Book it.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:17:00
 @SB718  @thelaughingwiseman hmmm... instead of Rumble how about Peter Rabbit and the Red Panda lady?
cleandoe
2012-06-14 13:17:02
 @thelaughingwiseman Anthony Davis, and then I still wouldn't do it. 
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:17:29
 @thelaughingwiseman See, it's not a matter of the person drafted being as good as Harden, it's a matter of getting a quality piece for cheap while definitively being able to resign Ibaka
Skyline
2012-06-14 13:17:37
Forget what I just said...... This news can't be good for Harden especially coming out hours before Game 2 of the NBA Finals. Harden doesn't need any more distractions, he already had Lil Wayne sitting courtside in Game 1.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:18:15
 @Skyline I see no problems. Harden's banging Lil Wayne's lady, not vice versa
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:18:42
 @FREE_COLE  @ThunderStruck2412 That's exactly why Charlotte wants to trade out of the spot though. They don't want to draft any of those guys there, especially Beal or MKG. But OKC's roster looks pretty terrible next year with no Harden and another big. Ibaka for No. 2, Robinson is a no brainer. Collison/Robinson/Durant is more more plug and play than getting rid of Harden. In short, Harden's not replaceable in the short term. Ibaka is.
Skyline
2012-06-14 13:19:18
 @JimboSlice Maybe so, but he won't be banging anyones lady if he were playing for the Bobcats. Lol.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:19:30
Ok so honest and possibly dumb question.  MKG is considered a top 4 pick.  He plays great defence and can't shoot. Basically Sef/Tony Allen.  Are people really gonna use a top 4 pick on sef/TA?
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:20:15
 @Jooseppi  @ThunderStruck2412 They can't do this trade to me.  Harden is the guy.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:20:16
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi  Full disclosure, I didn't watch one minute of college basketball this season.  What about Andre Drummond or Harrison Barnes? 
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:20:21
 @FREE_COLE I'd be shocked if he or Barnes went top 4.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:20:30
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi being widely considered a deep draft doesn't mean anything at number 2, since it is very middle-heavy and not top-heavy at all. in all likelihood, talent at pick 10-15 will likely be as good as 2-5. I love Robinson, but I'd be smoking crack to trade Harden now before even seeing if he'll sign something reasonable in the extension period.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:20:33
I don't like the idea of trading Harden for anyone.  I think he's absolutely indispensable for the team's offensive success.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:20:34
Charlotte isn't a win now team, Jordan is losing money yearly.  Ask yourself if that # 2 pick is so valuable to the potential NBA champion why isn't it to them? 
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:21:01
 @Jooseppi  @FREE_COLE It's not a matter of short-term. It's a matter of long term. No one is trading 2nd pick for Ibaka. If you can get a quality guy at 2 and keep Ibaka then that is better then losing one of them to free agency for nothing. How is it not?
SB718
2012-06-14 13:21:07
 @FREE_COLE YES!...a SOURCE said so!
Skyline
2012-06-14 13:21:07
Too bad that Portland doesn't have the #1 pick because we know they would screw it up and then #2 would be Anthony Davis.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:21:14
 @JimboSlice  @ThunderStruck2412 That's kind of the idea. It's a deep draft, but Davis is the only can't miss player.
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 13:21:14
 @Skyline  @JimboSlice I'm sure there are some high-class prostitutes in Charlotte.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:21:16
 @Jooseppi  @FREE_COLE  He's listed as SF, too.  I don't think we need a SF, last time I checked.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:21:19
 @FF_pickups  @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi Barnes and Drummond both extremely underperformed for their hype from the year before. I like Barnes, but not or us, and I'm not sold on Drummond. His hype is 100% potential, 0% actual contributions as of now
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:21:25
 @SB718 Because they are the Charlotte Bobcats.
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 13:21:49
Stuff like this is good for us. The last thing Harden wants to do is rot away for spend 1, and half+ years in Charlotte. Remember he is a restricted free agent so Charlotte can match, and force him to stay the season after to.    These kind of trade rumors are actually very good for OKC. It will actually make it easier for us to resign Harden, and Ibaka. The more crap teams that want to trade for Harden,and Ibaka the more pressure Harden, and Ibaka will feel to resign early; so they are nottraded into a bad situation.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:21:57
 @justin_mia Or, just maybe...this rumor makes no sense.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:22:04
 @FF_pickups  @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi Andre Drummond is great when he's great, and not when he's not.  We'd need great all the time for this to work out.  Too much to ask for in exchange for Harden honestly.  I wouldn't touch barnes with a 10 foot pole.  He's a SF, so KD slides to the 4.  Barnes can't shoot the 3 all that well so floor spacing is weak. It'd basically be Jeff Green/KD again
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:22:30
 @JimboSlice  @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi See, y'all aren't thinking like a basketball GM though. IF Harden was traded it's going to be because Presti knows he can't keep him, or that he won't take less then the max. What y'all don't seem to understand is that this is better then letting one of them just walk in free agency. 
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:22:35
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi Cause chances are we can keep Harden?
dancassidy35
2012-06-14 13:22:38
The thing about trading Ibaka or Harden, I don't think we could get the right value/replacement for trading one of them. In my mind, we'd be trading Ibaka for Harden's replacement and Harden for Ibaka's replacement. The team would be drastically different. 
SB718
2012-06-14 13:22:45
*Pictures giving MKG the ball in the 4th against Dallas every play and telling him to bring us home*   chuckles inside
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:23:00
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi Cause chances are we can keep Harden who is >>>>> Ibaka.  
Arent
2012-06-14 13:23:13
Who would we pick? Sam Bowie? Kwame Brown? Ryan Leaf? 
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:23:15
 @SB718 The number 2 pick will underperform their pick position more than anybody in this draft. book it. This is a terrible year to be number 2
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:23:15
 @Jooseppi  @JimboSlice There are a lot of quality players that Presti can take at 2. No one thought Harden or Westbrook were locks either (3 & 4 picks). With no pressure on them and being in a great team, they'd be able to thrive.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:23:28
 @ThunderStruck2412 Like 1000 times for you.  not better, WAY WAY better.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:23:50
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FREE_COLE It's a matter of both, ThunderStruck. And it's not predicated on Ibaka for the No. 2, just Ibaka for a lotto pick.  If a trade is what Presti is thinking: You can trade Ibaka now and improve long term options while barely taking a hit in the short term. Or you can trade Harden and destroy both.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:24:09
 @JimboSlice You wanna talk Serge for Anthony Davis I'm listening.  Other then that...pfft
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-14 13:24:20
 @cleandoe  @thelaughingwiseman But could you imagine a Davis/Ibaka frontcourt? Score two points and you win the game.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:24:34
 @FREE_COLE  @Jooseppi Not really true. I'd rather have Harden then Ibaka, but Ibaka's ceiling is not close to being reached and is crucial to the success of the team, more then you probably realize. If you can keep that AND add a potentially great pick in the draft for 3-4 years? It's not a bad trade. I doubt it will happen. But it's not bad.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:25:02
 @FF_pickups  @FREE_COLE Could use one, preferably a 3/4 though. 
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:25:05
 @ThunderStruck2412  @JimboSlice  @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi If we can't keep him sure.  But we CAN keep him, as I understand our cap space.  So, it'd be really dumb. Especially considering how integral Harden is to our offensive success
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 13:25:45
Ok, so in the unlikely scenario that we do trade Harden for the #2 pick, who said that we would utilize it? We could dangle the #2 pick to other teams. Who would we want in that scenario?
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:25:54
 @FREE_COLE  @JimboSlice  @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi Again, Ibaka is integral as well and is a harder commodity to come by in the NBA. There is NO ONE that can do what he can, and his ceiling isn't reached. Keeping Harden and letting Ibaka go for nothing is FAR FAR worse then trading Harden for #2 pick and keeping Ibaka.
Dw7
2012-06-14 13:26:00
I know we might not be able to keep Harden...  But you can't risk trading a guy who has completely embraced his role for someone who probably won't.  Not many of those guys sound like a good fit.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:26:11
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FREE_COLE It's pretty bad. This team wins games because of it's offense with a better than average defense. It takes a nose dive without Harden, but now and in the future. He's the metronome.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:26:15
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi Harden is possibly the #1 SG in 2 years.  Ibaka will not ever be the top PF. Ibaka is at his best a 15-12 guy and I don't see him getting there on this team. 
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:26:53
 @Dw7 I assure you the Thunder would never draft someone who was a bad fit, nor would any player be a bad fit within that organization. 
cleandoe
2012-06-14 13:26:56
 @DustinMcWilliams Wouldn't we just trade Harden straight up then?
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:26:59
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FREE_COLE  @JimboSlice  @FF_pickups No, he's not a harder commodity to come by. Justin puts it well, there might be somebody with his exact skill set but there are tons of PFs with similar or better overall impact.
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:27:38
 @Arent Durant and MJ were number 2 picks...
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 13:27:39
 @cleandoe Maybe, but I'm not jumping into the mind of Presti.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:27:45
A lot depends on how good the organization thinks Thabo Pleiss can be as well. 
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:27:48
 @ThunderStruck2412  @JimboSlice  @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi Harder commodity than Harden? Not a chance.  What does he do? Block shots, awesome.  Make an 18 foot shot, dime a dozen.   Meanwhile, Harden is one of the most efficient scorers in the league, and a player totally comfortable playing off the bench.  Hell the dude called himself a role player and he is gonna make near max money
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:28:22
In Sam, we trust.  If he makes the trade, it's the right thing to do, that much I am sure.  Nobody thought Westbrook or Harden would be this good, so if there's a gem in this draft, Presti will know and he'll draft it and pay 1/8th the amount that we would have to pay to Harden.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:28:32
 @ThunderStruck2412 Thabo Pleiss?  The 7' wing defense specialist?  
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:28:46
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi OR we could realize that we don't have to trade them before this season, try to offer to keep both, and if not, trade for a 2013/14 pick. For one, their contract would be on the rookie scale for one more year than a pick this year, for seconds, the crop next year is projected to be stronger at the guard positions than this year's (Shabazz Mohammed anyone?), and thirdly, gives Harden/ Ibaka one more year of development and thus one more year of inflating their trade stock. Unless Harden gets injured, he will be a top 2-5 pick value and that's not going anywhere, Ibaka could stand to go up as well. So we're guaranteed to not get worse, but possibly better.   So basically, this trade is terrible in every way.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:29:30
 @ThunderStruck2412  @JimboSlice  @FF_pickups  @Jooseppi oh and Nerlens Noels does what he does, although unproven in nba.  There is no James Harden walking through that door anytime soon
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:29:42
I'll be complete Devil's Advocate. Would New Orleans accept an Ibaka/Harden trade for the #1 pick? Would you?
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:29:55
 @ThunderStruck2412 I would not.
Dw7
2012-06-14 13:30:11
 @thelaughingwiseman  @Arent MJ was number 3.
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:30:20
 @ThunderStruck2412 That is too much for a single player
dancassidy35
2012-06-14 13:30:48
 @ThunderStruck2412 I'd hope the Thunder wouldn't. If they wouldn't do it for Dwight, then they wouldn't for Davis.     
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:30:55
 @ThunderStruck2412 hell no. Davis is just Ibaka+, not Ibaka+Harden
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:30:57
 @ThunderStruck2412 One of the 2, yeah sure
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:31:12
 @ThunderStruck2412 No.  
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:32:04
What if there was another Dwight Howard type player (just the physical gifts not the head problems) entering the draft and Presti knew about him, then would you trade harden for that pick 2
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:32:14
I think we should just trade Durant for Anthony Davis. He's making too much money and it's all about the long term.
KellOne
2012-06-14 13:32:26
 @justin_mia Calling Dr. Frankenstein, Dr. Frankenstein!
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:32:46
Fun Presti story: he used to make mix CDs for Mike Brown when they were both with the Spurs.  From @mcten
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:32:51
 @Jooseppi  Yeah, cause Durant and Harden are equal in talent.  good point.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:33:00
 @FF_pickups Thank you. :)
ou_sas
2012-06-14 13:33:20
I know it's been said before, but trading Ibaka this summer might end up being reality if the Thunder are looking to slide KD over to PF in the long term. Maybe sign an established defensive 4 - who's not going to get stupid-huge offers when he hits RFA - in the meantime. But unless Ibaka is willing to take considerably less - and in this market, he's going to be massively overpaid - I don't know if he's going to be in the team's long term plans, much as I don't like it.
Keith00
2012-06-14 13:33:24
 @thelaughingwiseman Would I trade Harden for Dwight Howard? Yes.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 13:33:40
 @thelaughingwiseman On a detached level, probably. But I friggen love the Beard too much. But centers are cornerstones of Championships
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 13:34:06
 @Jooseppi  @FF_pickups BLOW IT UP AND REBUILD!
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:34:15
 @Jooseppi Don't be sensationalist. It's not a matter of not loving Harden or understanding how great Harden is for this team. But this team IS Durant and Westbrook, and any smart GM will be able to build around that. Losing Harden hurts for next year, but the team is still going to have more then enough to contend, and with Ibaka + 2 pick, you're set for 5 more years better then if you sign Harden and let Ibaka walk for nothing.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:34:37
 @ThunderStruck2412 Give me your rotation for next year.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:34:53
 @ou_sas  I think our front office values Defense more than the average stats guy. 
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:35:26
 @ou_sas This is basically my thought process as well.  I think Ibaka will get too much even if we're not taking luxury tax into consideration.  DeAndre Jordan got a 4/44 offer sheet from Golden State, and Ibaka is better than him + will be coming off a Finals appearance or win.  Ibaka might get Al Horford / Joakim Noah money.
DustinMcWilliams
2012-06-14 13:35:27
 @Dw7  @thelaughingwiseman  @Arent There's no one in this draft that comes close to MJ's potential.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:35:31
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi Really disagree.  We aren't a championship team without harden imo.  What do you see Ibaka's ceiling as?  
Amuro
2012-06-14 13:36:06
 @ThunderStruck2412 No
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:36:09
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi  It's really contingent on how good the number 2 player is going to be.  That's why not one person on here is nearly informed enough to make this decision and Sam Presti is.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:36:10
I'm fully confident in Presti that if he's really worried he can pull something big off like Serge and Reggie for Davis, sign Carl Landry to a 2 year deal, re-up Harden and call it a day.  I think Harden for a player 2 or less in this draft is beneath Presti and this team.  *Deep* is usually code for not a lot of star power.  Good players but only 1 is considered a franchise changing talent.  Presti stays under the radar (correct me if I'm wrong I don't recall rumors of the Perkins trade or him drafting Russ or Harden before it happened).  This "rumor" reeks of being planted by Charlotte.  In other news there's a LeBron guy hanging out on Oklahoma, wonder what that's about.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 13:36:59
 @FF_pickups Sure, which is why you trade Ibaka for the max you think you can get, then bring in a veteran 4 who can play defense. Maybe what happens is you end up with a Collison-Perk backcourt until you can get someone to step up, but I can live with that if I can afford to keep a top 3 player in his position in each of my 1-3.
Keith00
2012-06-14 13:37:05
 @justin_mia  @ou_sas And like Noah, he will be massively overpaid at 11+ per year.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:37:08
 @FF_pickups  @ou_sas We can be a good defensive team without Ibaka.  You don't need shot blocking to be an elite defense.  We were a much better defensive team relative to league average in 2009-10 with Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic starting. 
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:37:54
 @justin_mia  @ou_sas I'd say in between there.  Noah/Horford have passing that Ibaka doesn't have
SB718
2012-06-14 13:38:02
 @justin_mia  @FF_pickups  @ou_sas You don't even believe that about Green and Kristic, I don't care what stay you show me without context. 
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:38:24
Justin just beat me to it, but Ibaka's negotiations are likely to start at DeAndre level. 4/44. Ibaka for 4/44 or Harden for 4/50. This isn't rocket science.  
ou_sas
2012-06-14 13:38:47
 @SB718  @justin_mia  @FF_pickups We seriously were. Of course, we had a top notch defensive assistant coach at the time, Thabo was healthy, and we worked our buts off.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:39:16
 @justin_mia  @FF_pickups  @ou_sas *Stat
Keith00
2012-06-14 13:39:18
 @cleandoe  @thelaughingwiseman That's seems like a weird thing to say given the situation. Is Perkins the cornerstone of our team? Is Joel Anthony the cornerstone of the Heat?
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:39:25
 @SB718  @justin_mia  @FF_pickups  @ou_sas That's based off of numbers I believe.  "Relative to league average" which yes was true.  Ron Adams effect
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:39:30
 @ThunderStruck2412 Ok here's what I don't get. The difference in pay per year for Harden and Ibaka will be no more than a few million, so we can keep either one of the two. Why is it that you insist that it is better to lose Harden than Ibaka? Please explain, and maybe people will take your scenarios a little more seriously.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:39:35
 @FREE_COLE  @Jooseppi Y'all are underselling Ibaka. There is no one in the league as athletic as him at that position. No one who can block shots like that plus hit 15-20 foot jump shots. He's getting a lot better and a player like that is way rarer then a player like Harden. Harden is better, but he isn't more unique. That's just the way it is. That's basketball.    Starting line-up isn't changed with the trade, and you still have a bench of Eric Maynor (remember him?), Collison, #2 pick who would start for another team, Pleiss if he comes over, and then you could even probably get Jason Terry for a year long contract or another scoring option off the bench.   Honestly, you're not going to be THAT much different of a team. It changes the dynamic, but that's it. Harden is great. I love him. The Man. And in no way do I think they'd do this, but doesn't mean I can't recognize true basketball reasons for doing so.
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:39:47
 @Jooseppi That's about right.  I always thought of Ibaka as worth 11 million and James worth 12.7 million a year
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:39:52
 @Jooseppi  that's not the question.  If that was, I'm with you. 
SB718
2012-06-14 13:39:59
 @ou_sas  @justin_mia  @FF_pickups Ron Adams, a lot of other things league wide I'm sure of related....like I said, context.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:40:41
 @SB718  @FF_pickups  @ou_sas The point is that defense is played more between the ears than anything.   The Bulls play elite defense with Derrick Rose and Carlos freakin' Boozer getting major minutes.  Ibaka is a great talent but he is replaceable, and I seriously doubt will be worth the $$$ that he will demand.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:40:50
 @JimboSlice Have you not read what I wrote? They are going to keep one, at least. That's not the problem. The truth is it's better to keep one + get the value of a #2 pick compared to keeping one and letting the other walk with nothing in return. Pretty simple.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 13:40:50
 @Jooseppi Here's the other thing: Should the worst happen and either KD or Russ have extended time out, who do you trust more with your offense? Harden + one of the two or Ibaka + one of the two?
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 13:41:03
 @ChilamBilam12  Um if Harden don't want to make a committment to the Thunder then Presti will do what is in the best interest of the team. Now I am very confident it won't come to that for either Harden or Ibaka.    Both Harden, and Ibaka know they are in a perfect situation.They love OKC, and our a team that can win championships for the next decade. Both Harden, and Ibaka will take considerabley less money to stay with the Thunder. There is no way that Harden or Ibaka will want to give up what they have in OKC.   You right about the Thunder having leveraged. Both harden, and Ibaka are only 22 years, and are so talented. Other teams really covet these players.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:41:15
 @SB718  @ou_sas  @justin_mia  @FF_pickups what about the first half of the season after Adams left? Although I agree, we can definitely be elite defensively without Ibaka, I do believe that we performed worse with the Kristic-Green combo after Adams left than when we had Ibaka-Perk.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:41:24
 @justin_mia   To play elite level D, you need fast athletic bigs.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:41:28
 @ou_sas  @Jooseppi Did you forget Eric Maynor existed?
Keith00
2012-06-14 13:41:30
 @thelaughingwiseman The problem is that we aren't talking about trading Harden for Anthony Davis (closest thing to a Dwight). We are talking about trading Harden for someone like Drummond (all Dwight's tools, even more head problems).
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:41:37
 @FREE_COLE  @justin_mia  @ou_sas but not hype like Ibaka has
AndrewOKC
2012-06-14 13:41:42
 @ThunderStruck2412  @JimboSlice but if that time comes ibaka would have plenty of trade value as well 
Thunder1112
2012-06-14 13:42:03
It's pretty simple. Amnesty Perkins and sign Ibaka and Harden. There's no question that Ibaka has much more value than Perk. We'll see how this plays out. Sam Presti isn't stupid.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:42:39
 @Thunder1112 Thunder are going to have a hard time beating Memphis and LAL without Perk in the near future.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:42:48
 @JimboSlice  @SB718  @ou_sas  @FF_pickups Not saying that Ron Adams wasn't responsible for the defense, or that the Krstic - Green combo was even good defensively, just that losing Ibaka doesn't have to destroy our identity defensively.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:42:56
 @Thunder1112  it's not quite that simple because then you are hands tied with moves you can make in the future.
Keith00
2012-06-14 13:43:04
 @ThunderStruck2412  @JimboSlice I think the issue is that Harden is a considerably better player than Ibaka. Harden's offense > Ibaka's defense, Harden's defense > Ibaka's offense.   So it's not about moving whichever one a team will take, it's about keeping the better player.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 13:43:17
 @Keith00  @thelaughingwiseman I mean great centres usually can win a championship given decent players. Great guards usually need quite a bit of help from elsewhere. The game is changing though
SB718
2012-06-14 13:43:21
 @JimboSlice  @ThunderStruck2412 What I don't get is the idea that the team would rather lose Harden or Ibaka then flush Perkins's contract down the toilet.  It's no guarantee amnestying him would keep both but it certainly makes it more likely. Thabo and Maynor will be up in a few years. They can all leave to keep the core 4 intact.
Thunder1112
2012-06-14 13:43:30
And possibly keep Eric Maynor. We're gonna at least make one more run with the current team, next season.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:43:35
 @Keith00  @JimboSlice I coach collegiate basketball. I'm telling you, y'all are really underselling how unique a player Ibaka is.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 13:43:52
 @MostJadedGamer  @ChilamBilam12 As KD said: "James knows where he belongs."   *Paraphrased.
moriarty84
2012-06-14 13:44:04
 @Thunder1112 You do realize that unless someone claims Perkins in the process, we still have to pay Perkins his full salary, right?  It would only save us money in the final two years of his contract with regard to the luxury tax.
KellOne
2012-06-14 13:44:14
 @cleandoe Trade Beard for Brow?
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:44:19
 @AndrewOKC  @JimboSlice But you aren't getting a better or cheaper value in a trade then the #2 pick in this years draft.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:44:33
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Thunder1112 highly doubt it. 1) LA's not going to be constructed the same by 2013-14, 2) Kobe in 2 years= irrelevant   Memphis there are also many many roster questions
AndrewOKC
2012-06-14 13:44:36
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Keith00  @JimboSlice i dont think anyone is saying Ibaka isnt a freak it just that harden is also 
Keith00
2012-06-14 13:44:38
 @ThunderStruck2412  @ou_sas  @Jooseppi No, did you forget how little Eric Maynor brings to the table?
SB718
2012-06-14 13:44:43
 @justin_mia  @FF_pickups  @ou_sas Well you get Thibs to be defensive coordinator and I'll wave bye to Serge
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:44:57
If there is a very capable Center in this Draft and I mean (Andrew Bynum, Dwight Howard) capable, I'd take the chance.  I feel that the Thunder and the players have great enough influence, the change and mold a player with head problems into a great person.  I sure has hell know Westbrook could have ended up like stephon maurbury some where like LA or Goldenstate, or other areas without a Durant like player.  Harden might have regressed like Tyrek Evens of the Kings or might have gone over board on his jersey size and gone extra small.  I  believe in this staff enough to get a head case now and he could be fixed.
Amuro
2012-06-14 13:45:02
 @f5alcon Yeah if they added in Biyombo and the second pick for Harden I'd be tempted to say yes. Ibaka, and Biyombo on the court at the same time would be like the Bash brothers.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 13:45:45
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi Eric Maynor's not bringing 15 ppg with the possibility to go for 30+ to the table. He's a steady hand, not going to turn it over. He's not going to take over a game like James did against Dallas.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:46:08
 @thelaughingwiseman  This Andre Drummond guy fits the bill based off of what I read.  He supposedly has energy problems.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:46:25
A lot of people in here are really underselling how valuable Ibaka is to the things the Thunder do, and how unique a player he is. There are no bigs in the NBA that can block shots like he does plus hit the outside jumper. His ceiling is far from reached. Everything the Thunder do defensively hinges on funneling things towards him. I love Harden as much as anybody, but I also understand if you can keep Ibaka AND get a #2 pick? I mean, that isn't bad. Presti certainly has a good track record of picks in the 2-4 range.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:46:28
In 2009-10 the starting unit RW-TS-KD-JG-NK gave up 106.65 points per 100 possessions (1 point per 100 possessions better than league average).  Our starting unit this season gave up 105.17 points per 100 possessions with Ibaka and Perkins in for Green and Krstic (.6 points WORSE than league average).  
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:46:56
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi Athleticism is awesome.  Smarts are cool too.  Ibaka is lacking on one. That 15-20 footer is great but people can hit that at his position.  And blocking is nice, but there are better defenders at the 4.  How many players can play like Harden? 1. Manu.  No other guard comes even close to his efficiency numbers.  I don't have them @justin_mia does I believe, maybe Crow does but he's ridiculously efficient.  Harden is more important to make the offense go than Ibaka is to the defense.  
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:47:00
 @justin_mia  well that settles it then,lol
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:47:09
 @JimboSlice  @Thunder1112 They still have Marc Gasol and Randolph locked in. Again, Thunder aren't in finals without Perkins this year.
goff6657
2012-06-14 13:47:11
There is one problem with now. There is a chance now that there making so much money from going to finals that they would be able to kept them both now. It is a better chance than it was a month ago. who would the Thunder with the pick?
Thunder1112
2012-06-14 13:47:16
@FF_pickups What major moves do you need to make if you have the leagues best core with those four players (Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka)? It would be the same situation with Perkins and either Ibaka or Harden. If you amnesty a player, you still have to pay them but it doesn't count against the cap. I guarantee you that OKC would dish out an extra $8mil to keep their guys. Plus they could still offer part of the MLE in future season. Either way, this team builds through the draft.
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-14 13:47:19
 @ThunderStruck2412  LOL! The trump card has been pulled!   But for serious though, Ibaka possesses the lowest bball IQ on the team. There's a reason you can't play an extremely athletic shot blocker more than 20 minutes most games - because you can't trust him to make the right play. Harden is one of the most cerebral and multi-talented players in the league. The differences in talent and ability between Ibaka and Harden are stark in contrast, but similar in impact. The differences in-between the ears are immeasurably in favor of Harden. 
SB718
2012-06-14 13:47:22
The perimeter D's intensity has picked up the playoffs (as is to be expected) but I sure remember a lot of complaining a lot of nights about it during the season.  But we'll just put Joe Schmoe on the back line, it'll be ok.  Not a guy who blocked 10 + shots I think 3 times this year.  He's twenty.two.years.old.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 13:47:29
 @ThunderStruck2412 You're overvaluing the talent in the draft, IMHO.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 13:47:43
We are turning on each other on a trade that is probably never going to happen. We have a game tonight people. BEAT THE HEAT
cleandoe
2012-06-14 13:48:43
 @Thunder1112  @FF_pickups You never can know what will happen in the future (unless you have a oracle ball like Presti)
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:48:47
 @Thunder1112  @FF_pickups  I think if we can pay them, then we'll be fine.  If we can't, then do a trade.  Simple as that.  But the one thing I know is that Sam knows more than me.
Thunder1112
2012-06-14 13:48:57
@ThunderStruck2412 @JimboSlice I agree Perk is a huge part of what we do but moving forward would you rather have Harden and Ibaka or, Harden or Ibaka and Perk.
Thunder1112
2012-06-14 13:49:08
?
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:49:22
 @Jax Raging Bile Duct It counts for something. It is my profession. And again, you aren't thinking very much on the matter. It's not a comparison of Harden and Ibaka. It's the simple truth that Ibaka + 2 pick > Harden. Harden is great, but players like that ARE easier to come by then players like Ibaka. Has nothing to do with basketball IQ.
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 13:49:33
so, I'm reading the ESPN message boards and I read this....   "Miami is a team searching for a leader...Wade thinks it's Lebron because Lebron is MVP, Lebron seems to think it's Wade because Wade has a Finals MVP, and NOBODY thinks it's Spoelstra. What a mess.2 fans like this.1 Hour"   next comment down "..and chris bosh is just happy that the chesapeake energy arena has plenty of warm crevasses to build his nest"   I about spewed Coke all over my monitor screen.  Hilarious!
ATH
2012-06-14 13:49:43
 @justin_mia That '09-'10 team a) didn't have an elite offense to lean on, so b) allocated more energy and focus to defense and c) didn't get any team's best shot night in/out. It's important to acknowledge the massive gap between how these teams LOOK defensively, though, and how they are capable of playing when it matters against the best competition.
Amuro
2012-06-14 13:49:46
 @YoniFromIsrael Yes I have to agree.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:49:46
 @justin_mia Couldn't be Russ played better D 3 years ago after coming into the league as a defensive player.  Couldn't be that with a greater offensive load he doesn't try as hard on d consistently.  Not excusing that but only a true handful of GREATS play balls to the wall on both ends consistently.  Stats without context. 
SB718
2012-06-14 13:50:22
 @thelaughingwiseman If Bynum or Howard were in the draft do you think trading picks would be a discussion?
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:50:37
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FREE_COLE  @Jooseppi Manute Bol was unique, so was Muggsy Bogues.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:50:42
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jax Raging Bile Duct Ibaka + 2 picks really isn't > Harden.  No one agrees with you.  You don't trade a top 3 player at their position unless you absolutely have to AND WE DON'T HAVE TO.  It's that simple
ou_sas
2012-06-14 13:50:47
Who is more likely to step up his deficiency: Harden with his defense or Ibaka with his offense?   Ibaka's offensive ceiling is, at best, maybe, in the most ideal of universes, a KG. At least in style.   Defense is effort, intelligence, and teamwork. Harden may not be Thabo, but he can, like KD and Russ, become competent. 
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:50:50
People on here are making out like it's Serge Vs. Ibaka.  I didn't see Charlotte offer the number 2 pick for Serge.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:51:05
 @FF_pickups I pick Ibaka in that matchup.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:51:45
 @Jooseppi  @FF_pickups I don't know Ibaka has that "fire in his eyes", you see how he grabbed Dunleavy's arm?  Can Serge bring that intensity?
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:51:55
 @ou_sas It's a number two pick! This draft is better then the one Harden was drafted at #3? You're telling me Presti, who drafted Durant, Westbrook and Harden in the 2-4 range couldn't find an incredible player at #2? Seriously? It's the second pick! This isn't a one person draft. There are great players to be had.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:52:01
People on here are making out like it's Serge Vs. Harden.  I didn't see Charlotte offer the number 2 pick for Serge.   (repost)
Thunder1112
2012-06-14 13:52:13
@moriarty84 We will see what happens. This is in the back of my mind but I'm more excited for our current team that's in the Finals and on the verge of a title. And we'll have the same cast for at least next season.
twistdov
2012-06-14 13:52:22
 @Thunder1112  @ThunderStruck2412  @JimboSlice    Ibaka and Perk, this is an easy decision
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:52:23
 @ThunderStruck2412 Again I ask, What is his ceiling? Give me numbers.  15-12 with 3 blocks? He doesn't catch passes well so those 115 are coming on jump shots.  Whose shots is he taking? 
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:52:34
 @SB718  @FF_pickups I dunno. Serge has always seemed a little rough around the edges and not as locked in, but Ibaka has consistency issues with his jumper.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:53:01
 @ATH  @justin_mia Is this context? We forget this team came up a defensive minded, offensively challenged.  It's morphed into a defensive capable, offensive powerhouse.  Let's not have them go all the way the other way.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:53:27
Look, obviously there are reasons that the defense was better with inferior defensive talent.  I'm not trying to say that the talent was better in 2009-10.  I'm saying that it's more than possible to play elite defense without a dominating shot blocker (check out the Bulls, or even the Heat).  Ibaka does block shots but he's poor at defensive rebounding, has poor awareness, is hit or miss in PnR.  He's a great young player but I think he's not going to be worth what he demands, and the defense can be effective without him.  
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:53:52
 @ThunderStruck2412  @ou_sas This draft is deeper, not better. Lots of strong rotation players, only 2 possible stars, as much as I have watched
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 13:54:10
 @ou_sas  If it cam to it I would trade Harden before I trade Ibaka. If Durant slides to the 4 Ibaka can slide to the 5. Guys like Ibaka are very hard to find   We already have Durant, and Westbrook which makes Ibaka more important to us then Harden. Westbrook, Durant, Ibaka is certainly better long term the Westbrook,Harden, Durant.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:54:13
 @FREE_COLE  @ou_sas NO ONE thought Harden or Westbrook would be NBA stars, so that opinion is very shallow
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:55:08
 @FREE_COLE He. Is. 22. And he came in very raw. A 6'10 big man who can block shots, is that athletic, and can shoot 12-15 jumpers is more valuable and rare in this league then a player like Harden. It doesn't mean he's a better player. He's just a harder player to replace.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:55:10
 @Jooseppi   I totally agree about the locked in statement.  How else does one explain the 89 dropped passes a game during the regular season and then rarely dropping them in the postseason?  
justin_mia
2012-06-14 13:55:25
 @ou_sas I'm comfortable in saying that Kevin Garnett as an offensive ceiling for Ibaka waved bye bye to him a long time ago.  I think Horace Grant would be my pick there.
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:55:35
 @cleandoe nah, we're just having a discussion with our opinions about matters are might one day be very real.  It's good to come up with ideas and speculations that can have major ramifacations on the Thunder as a team.  I'm just restless and want the game to get started already.  I was tired about hearing how Wade was playing like crap and look for him to come out on fire type crap.  I wanted to have a conversation about the Thunder on this Daily Thunder blog!  Thunder Up
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-14 13:55:41
 @ThunderStruck2412 There are a dozen players in the league right now who could impact the game more than Ibaka does on our team. They may not block as many shots, but they all have more complete games. Just because Serge is an outstanding athlete it does not mean he will ever maximize that potential. You have to have it between the ears to do that, and I'm not sold Ibaka has it. Ibaka has two jobs, block from help defense and rebound. He's just now proving himself to be worth the part time job of defending another post player one on one. We have to purposefully take him our or cross match to keep him away from playing any PnR defense because he's as bad at that as anyone in the league playing the 4. He has flash and athleticism, but he's replaceable.
twistdov
2012-06-14 13:56:21
 @Keith00    Ibaka is not an offensive liability. Harden is often a huge defensive liability. Sure a team like the Bobcats (lol) might take a flier on a big contract or trade for Harden, but the well-managed, more successful teams understand Hardens are much easier to find than Ibakas.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:56:29
 @justin_mia  @ou_sas  Ibaka JUST added a new drive to the rim move.  I don't know, he might get a lot better.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 13:56:38
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FREE_COLE I agree with all apart from the last sentence
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-14 13:56:43
 @ThunderStruck2412 There are a dozen players in the league right now who could impact the game more than Ibaka does on our team. They may not block as many shots, but they all have more complete games. Just because Serge is an outstanding athlete it does not mean he will ever maximize that potential. You have to have it between the ears to do that, and I'm not sold Ibaka has it. Ibaka has two jobs, block from help defense and rebound. He's just now proving himself to be worth the part time job of defending another post player one on one. We have to purposefully take him out of the game or try to cross match to keep him away from playing any PnR defense because he's as bad at that as anyone in the league playing the 4. He has flash and athleticism, but he's replaceable.
twistdov
2012-06-14 13:56:46
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Keith00  @JimboSlice    Not all of us....
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:56:58
 @ou_sas You can't compare the two. They are two completely different players. It's easier to replace Harden then it is Ibaka. 6'5 guard scorers are easier to come by then 6'10 athletic big men. It's just the way the league is. You're really underselling Ibaka while overselling Harden. And again, that isn't even what this post was about. Ibaka/2 pick > Harden. 
SB718
2012-06-14 13:57:24
 @justin_mia Elite D starts with your bigs, they're the last line of defense.  Elite Ds based solely or mainly on wing players is sooooo much the exception, we know this.   How's that elite D without any shot blockers helping Miami when Russ is getting to the lane at will anyway?
thelaughingwiseman
2012-06-14 13:57:40
 @SB718 dude What game were you seeing in Game 1?  The lack of perimeter defense is what killed the Thunder in the first half (noticeably Battier)
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:58:02
 @FF_pickups  @justin_mia  @ou_sas Exactly. For God's sake....He is 22! There's a reason he could get max elsewhere, because there is no player like him! I love Harden! Love him! But he isn't as great as some Thunder fans want him to be.
Keith00
2012-06-14 13:58:03
 @JimboSlice  @FREE_COLE  @justin_mia  @ou_sas Horford is a legitimate scoring threat and a great individual defender. It's the offensive side of the ball that makes him worth his contract. And that's the same reason Noah is overpaid, he's a nonfactor offensively and not a DPOY level defender.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 13:58:38
I heard Hakeem was available with the No. 2.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 13:58:44
 @ThunderStruck2412 Still not answering my question.  Like at all. 12-15 foot jumpers aren't rare.  Honestly they aren't.  Especially considering that 20 foot jumper really isn't that good of a shot.  The three pointer is a better shot.  A 45% shooter from 20 feet is worse than a 40% 3 point shooter.  That's just the honest truth
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 13:59:04
 @Jooseppi I don't really see where you're making sense, or what point you're trying to prove
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 13:59:06
 @ThunderStruck2412   I love Harden, too.  But Thunderstruck, I'm with you 100%.  I'm not saying do the deal, I'm saying that if there is a suitable pick in the draft at #2 (which there probably is) then do the deal.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 13:59:37
 @ThunderStruck2412 I think the basis of your argument is off though, considering the number 2 pick of THIS draft. There are lots of good players, but everyone after Davis has the talent of a 5-13 pick in most other drafts. So yes, in a draft like 2007 or 2009 where you have multiple immediate impact guys on the board, 2 for Harden + keeping Ibaka might make sense, but there are 2 things in play: 1) This draft is not like that.. at all. It's more 2008- Derrick Rose, and then a bunch of other guys who will develop eventually into really good/ great players over time. 2) We are in our championship window right now, for 4 years of Durant and Westbrook together for sure. We don't have time to wait for Drummond to become great, Robinson and Ibaka play the same position and to an extent, the same role so keeping both makes little sense, MKG is useless here until he develops his game since we already have Sef, and the list goes on.    If we were still developing, I could understand your argument, or if this draft was top-heavy it would make sense as well, but with the current constraints, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to keep Ibaka over Harden for the number 2 pick in a draft where the top 5 most talented and NBA-ready players all play Ibaka's position and everybody else is some form of a project.
SB718
2012-06-14 13:59:45
 @FREE_COLE  @ThunderStruck2412 Who's replacing him?  How congested is the lane going to be with Perkins, Thabo, and a 4 who doesn't have 20 foot range?
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:00:04
By the way, I love hyperbole.
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 14:00:15
 @ou_sas  NO that is just stupid. You don't a trade a guy like Ibaka. I would trade Harden or Westbrook before I traded Ibaka. Westbrook, Durant, Ibaka or Harden, Durant, Ibaka is a better trio long trm then Westbrook, Harden, Durant.    Anyway this allmoot since both Harden, and baka will resign early wth the Thunder. Both uyswilltake considerablly less money to tay in a perfect situation.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 14:00:37
 @Jooseppi  This Drummond kid kind of sounds like what we need. 
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:00:47
 @SB718 We're the best offensive team in the league right now, one of the better ones in playoff history.  There are other good defensive bigs out there.  Is Ibaka even an elite defensive big?  Probably, but I'm not positive.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:00:58
 @MostJadedGamer  @ou_sas Trade harden or westbrook before Ibaka? LOL OK
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:00:58
Again, it's not a comparison of Ibaka and Harden, and this is all complete hypothetical. The simple point I was making is that the Thunder do stand a chance of losing Ibaka or Harden for nothing, and that if this trade happened it would be a better case scenario for the Thunder then that. Keeping Ibaka plus having a very quality player (I believe in Presti's track record) locked in cheaply for a few years is better then keeping Harden and not getting anything for Ibaka.   Again, this is not going to happen though.. And IDEALLY I'd want this core four to stay together as long as possible.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:01:10
 @FF_pickups  @justin_mia  @ou_sas I think people are confusing being the 4th option on a team with 2 of the top 5 scorers in the league as being incapable of scoring.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 14:01:50
 @ThunderStruck2412  @ou_sas Harden isn't just a 'guard scorer'. He is a facilitator with impeccable vision. He instigates the bench and is a top 3 shooting guard imo. Ibaka has lots of potential but if you are talking about the jobs they currently do for us, I'd pick Harden in a hearttbeat. We can get another shotblocker and another rebounder and a better big scorer - and they don't even have to be the same guy
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 14:01:54
 @ThunderStruck2412  I couldn't have said it better.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:02:00
 @SB718  @ThunderStruck2412 Probably KD honestly.  Lots of decent 3s who can play D and hit the occasional shot
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:02:03
 @SB718  @FREE_COLE  @ThunderStruck2412 Lots of PF's have a mid range jump shot.  Most can play PnR better than Serge can.  Almost all of them have better hands.
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 14:02:19
 @justin_mia  We would be insane to trade Ibaka. He is alredy one of the most dominant defensive players in the league, and he still has TONS of upside. He certainly has far more potential then Harden has.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:02:20
 @SB718  @ThunderStruck2412 ps KD has range to 20 feet and is a fairly good shot blocker
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:02:34
Ugh, I hate all this trade talk.   Harden is a younger version of Joe Johnson.  He's the perfect #2 option, and an absolutely steal as a #3 option.  Unfortunately other GMs don't see this and want him as a #1 option.   I hope Harden realizes he can stay as a 6th man and go down as one of the best players ever on a multi-championship team.  Or, he can go the route of Joe Johnson, make a good bit more money (the key), and be on a perennial 1st round exit team.   Do what Ginobili did Harden.  Please.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:03:12
 @ThunderStruck2412 The only way you could lose them for nothing is if they reach unrestricted free agency.  There's no way in hell that's happening.  There's a lot of exits on the highway between trading them now and losing them then.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 14:03:26
 @alvarex even on our team i don't think he stays a 6th man
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:03:46
 @alvarex Exactly. Harden is great, but he's not the first option on a championship team. People forget how great it's been for him to play with two of the premiere scoring options in the league.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 14:03:50
 @SB718  @ThunderStruck2412  Yeah, we aren't losing them for nothing but the number 2 overall pick is nothing to sneeze at.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:04:00
 @ThunderStruck2412  @ou_sas Not at harden's efficiency.  Efficiency matters and Harden is, if I'm remembering the stats correctly, the most efficient guard in the league this year
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:04:09
 @OBoymuzik I think 6th man duties maximizes his abilities, but I agree he can start.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:04:21
 @OBoymuzik  @alvarex If KD slides to the four, I could see us starting something like RW-Thabo-Harden-KD-Take your pick of 5s.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:04:36
 @OBoymuzik  @alvarex There's no reason he would start though. He plays starters minutes. The idea of "starter" doesn't really mean anything. He COULD start, sure.
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 14:04:49
 @Keith00  Are you kidding? A 22 year old who is already one of the most dominating defensive player sin the league, AND has a great jump shot, AND has the potential to get FAR, FAR better.    Ibaka is worth close to the max, but we we wil get him for far cheaper then he is worth.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:05:22
 @FF_pickups  @SB718 Exactly. You aren't losing them for nothing. But you also probably aren't getting anything of value better then the #2 pick in a draft.
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:05:24
 @ThunderStruck2412  @OBoymuzik I like him off the bench because it allows us to have a playmaker out there at all times.  If he started that wouldn't happen.   Harden seems smart and committed to winning, so I believe he gets that.  It's just really hard to be smart when all those $$$$ are staring at your agent.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:05:29
 @thelaughingwiseman dude they had a 4 guarding a wing.  That wasn't perimeter d per se.  How'd it look in the 2nd half with the proper matchups?
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:05:39
 @FF_pickups He feels like a bust and 29 FT% is almost unplayable.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:05:48
 @ThunderStruck2412  @OBoymuzik  @alvarex Agreed, but if we were talking starting options, then that's one. I really don't think you start him though unless KD's at the four. 
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 14:06:21
 @ThunderStruck2412  @alvarex i know it doesn't matter...but don't you think it would help in keeping him...and hopefully paying a little less than what he would be offered elsewhere   right now our team would crumble with him as a starter but it would be pretty simple to restructure a few things and move him to the starting lineup
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:06:48
 @Jooseppi  @FF_pickups Presti would stay away on that stat alone. If you shoot FTs worse than Shaq, uh....
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:07:28
 @OBoymuzik  @ThunderStruck2412 If the options were 25% of cap as a 6th man or 18% of the as a starter, you start Harden.  For that 7% you can keep a player like Maynor and Cook to anchor a second unit.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:07:58
 @justin_mia Is he elite with P n R coverage, etc?  No.  He's still only 22 years old.  Being able to deny the ball from going in at the last possible chance for the defensive at an almost historic rate...yeah that's kind of an elite skill.  Give me a person with knockout out power I'll teach him how to box.  Unless you think he's too dumb to learn team defensive concepts and principles.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 14:07:59
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FF_pickups  @SB718 except for the number 2 in next year's draft. Or 2 cheap, more mid level guys to play the 2 and the 5.    I think we're pulling a New Orleans CP3 trade, where the Lakers' trade looked good and everybody thought theres no way they could get better... and then they did. We're talking about a top 2-3 player at his position. We probably could get better than the number 2 in this draft, especially considering that we could still do a sign and trade matching an offer, so we can wait and continue to boost his value.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 14:08:01
 @alvarex  @ThunderStruck2412 eeeeexactly
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:09:58
 @OBoymuzik  @ThunderStruck2412 Or for that matter, losing him if we insisted he stayed a 6th man.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:10:21
 @JimboSlice  @FF_pickups  @SB718 Yeah, no, I don't agree with that at all. Presti is going to get a great player at #2. Just a fact. And you can't trade them for a draft pick next year when they are free agents. That's not how it works.
anonymous12345
2012-06-14 14:10:29
a lot of talk about of why or why not the Thunder can do this.  I still can't figure out why the Bobcats would do this, given the amount of money they would have to pay Harden right away.  They aren't a playoff team even with Harden. 
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:10:54
 @MostJadedGamer  @Keith00 He is not worth to max.  You are just so wrong
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:11:12
 @anonymous12345 They might do it just to get to minimum salary floor. I don't know how far under the cap they are, but they might need a big signing just to get there.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:11:19
 @ou_sas  @FF_pickups Him shooting foul shots is pretty much the worst offensive possession you can have without turning the ball over.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:11:34
 @anonymous12345 Yeah, not sure it makes a ton of sense for the Bobcats. Harden would still be a free agent after next season if they couldn't reach an agreement with him.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:11:47
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FF_pickups We do realize they can be traded for players already in the league right?
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:12:07
 @OBoymuzik  @alvarex I really don't think him staying is going to have anything to do with whether he starts or not.
Lost Ones
2012-06-14 14:12:36
Some of y'all and gms are overrating the hell out of harden, his ceiling is pretty low in my opinion and definitely not worth a max.
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 14:12:37
 @alvarex  Brooks will start Harden next season. Like I said all this trade talk is good as is makes it easier to resign Ibaka, and Harden early next season
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:12:43
 @OBoymuzik  @alvarex Not like being the 6th man has hurt him in any way. He is widely recognized as part of the Big 3 and gets plenty of love. What exactly is going to change with him in the starting line-up? Not sure how it helps him in any way.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:12:54
 @FF_pickups  @ThunderStruck2412 *Sneezing*
twistdov
2012-06-14 14:13:00
Questions: How did it work out when we started Harden after Maynor's injury? Someone remind me how Harden looked in a starter's role. And: does Harden even *want* to start? I don't think so.   I'd be absolutely shocked if a team would be willing to trade that much for a 6th man. Even the Bobcats. But if the Bobcats offered, Presti would be nuts not to jump on it.   Harden is being overvalued by some here and (if the rumor is true) by the Bobcats management. There are plenty guys like James Harden who can get 17 & 5 while playing spotty D during what's essentially starter's minutes, mostly against other teams' 2s. Love the guy, great beard, nice eurostep, wonderful cog in our lineup, but not replaceable.  
John64
2012-06-14 14:13:08
I think this rumor has been started by Pat "Grandpa Munster" Riley in an attempt to distract us from the task at hand.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:13:25
 @SB718  @FF_pickups Yes, but #2 pick is going to be a really good player for really cheap for 3-4 years. That's GREAT value.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 14:13:49
 @Lost Ones Are you saying Presti is wrong? God forbid
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:14:01
 @Lost Ones I'm not convinced either is a max, but Harden has the potential to be a max player by a desperate team out there, and Ibaka, like all big men, will be overpaid by nature of the fact that he's a big man.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:14:05
 @ThunderStruck2412  @JimboSlice  @FF_pickups Well that's settled it's a FACT Presti will draft a great player at 2, then when that great player is about to reach RFA, flip him for a draft pick and get another great player.  Well hell, what am I worried about then?
twistdov
2012-06-14 14:14:27
 @alvarex  @ThunderStruck2412  @OBoymuzik    ^^Yep, on all points.   Has he not told management that he doesn't want to change his role (coming off the bench)?
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:14:30
 @anonymous12345 It'd make sense if they could trade for Harden AND keep the #2 pick.  They are just void of skill at all positions but point guard (I like Augustin and Kemba).   With the right staff, you turn "Solid rotation players" into Superstars.  Harden and Westbrook were one-dimensional reaches in the draft that were projected as role players and look how they turned out.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:14:30
 @ou_sas  @Lost Ones There is a reason big men are overpaid though. They are harder to find.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 14:15:04
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FF_pickups  @SB718 restricted free agents though. Meaning we have the power to match and do a sign-and-trade. If another team is willing to offer him a max contract, do you really think they also wouldn't trade valuable assets for him, even in a sign and trade?    There's literally no way we lose one OR both for nothing. We may lose one for slightly less than the #2 pick in this draft, but because of their status as restricted free agents, worst case scenario is we match an offer, get hit with the luxury tax for a season or part of a season while shopping them the whole year, and still get something of good to great value back. What's with all the panic?
twistdov
2012-06-14 14:15:15
err, meant Thabo.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:15:22
 @ThunderStruck2412  @ou_sas  @Lost Ones Centers are. Not power forwards.
Dw7
2012-06-14 14:15:24
 @John64 Do our players even know about this?
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:15:36
 @twistdov Exactly. I love Harden. Everyone does. He's great this team, but he is more easily replaced then Ibaka, especially if you can get a #2 pick for him?! Like you said, nuts not to jump at that kind of value. 
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:17:03
 @Lost Ones Agreed.  One of the reasons he is so efficient is that he only has to take control of the game for about 12 minutes at a time.  Joe Johnson as an uber-efficient up and coming superstar on the Suns before heading to the Hawks.     His efficiency stalled and all of a sudden people consider his contract one of the worst in the NBA.   Once again, amazing #2 and a steal as a #3, but not varied enough (yet) for a #1.
dollarbillrussell
2012-06-14 14:17:22
@ThunderStruck2412 @OBoymuzik @alvarex Harden already came out earlier in the postseason and said he wants to eventually start. Keeping him coming off the bench permanently doesn't seem to be a realistic option.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:18:23
 @Jooseppi  @ThunderStruck2412  @ou_sas  @Lost Ones That line is blurred in today's NBA
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:18:55
 @Dw7  @John64 Only if they were asked it during a media interview.  KD mentioned our guys are in media-blackout mode otherwise the other day.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:19:02
 @Jooseppi  @ou_sas  @Lost Ones Ibaka is a rare talent. There are no 6'10 men who are as athletic as he is, who can make jump shots. He's 22. There is a reason people will throw a lot of money at him.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:19:07
 @alvarex  @Lost Ones Joe Johnson was never even close to Harden's efficiency.  Johnson cracked 50% TS only his last year in Phoenix, at 55.6%.  Harden had one of the most efficient scoring seasons from a guard since the NBA merger this season and has carried it into the playoffs.  Harden's way, way, more efficient than Johnson was in Phoenix.  It's not even close.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:19:41
 @JimboSlice  @ThunderStruck2412  @FF_pickups You are not allowed to speak reasonably with Kimbo Slice as an avatar.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:19:49
 @ThunderStruck2412  @ou_sas  @Lost Ones Do you honestly believe there aren't plenty of bigs out there with similar or better overall impact than Ibaka?
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:19:52
 @justin_mia  @alvarex  @Lost Ones It's completely different systems. Joe Johnson is also about 3 inches taller and a much better defender.
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:19:56
 @justin_mia  @Lost Ones Sure, fair enough.  Do you think he'll be able to carry it over to a team if he is asked to be the primary option and the closer?
dollarbillrussell
2012-06-14 14:21:23
@ThunderStruck2412 @Jooseppi I'm sorry, but you have no clue what you're talking about.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:21:40
 @FREE_COLE  @ThunderStruck2412 So 6'9" 270 LeBron banging with 4s takes a physical toll on him but we want KD to do it...makes sense.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:21:53
Harden is so replaceable. http://bkref.com/tiny/vN62c
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:21:54
 @Jooseppi  @ou_sas  @Lost Ones There are less of them out there then players who are 6'5 and can come off the bench to score. Yes. And you act like Ibaka is any big man. Pretty sure he's put up elite, once in a generation, blocking numbers this season, and his ceiling is far from being met. Bill Simmons has even said there are NO players out there that can block shots like he can and hit 12-15 foot jumpers. That is a very rare combination. 
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:21:57
Summary of the comments below this: Opinion is divided between whether we'd rather keep Ibaka or Harden, but we'd much rather keep both and have Presti perform some wizardry to keep it affordable too.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:22:09
 @twistdov Who are all of the shooting guard in the NBA these days that can get you 60% TS on 20+ USG?  I'll give you the answer: James Harden.  Harden's ability to efficiently control possessions is so singular at his position right now in the NBA.  The only guy who is even close at SG is Manu Ginobili and he had a season full of injuries.  Our offense absolutely explodes with Harden on the court.  He's ranked in the Top 10 in efficiency in just about every one of Synergy's play types.  Plus he's only 22 and just now starting to get higher involvement in the offense in the playoffs.  Harden is as unique a talent at his position in the current NBA that you can find.
twistdov
2012-06-14 14:22:23
 @Jooseppi  d'oh
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:22:42
 @Jooseppi That's who we'll trade for then. Wait.....
SB718
2012-06-14 14:22:46
 @justin_mia  @FREE_COLE  @ThunderStruck2412 None who you have named that's it's feasible for this team to get. How many of them are blocking 5 and a half shots per 40 btw?
twistdov
2012-06-14 14:23:10
 @ou_sas nicely summarized
SB718
2012-06-14 14:23:38
 @Jooseppi Wait til you see what Bradley Beal can do...duhhh
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:23:44
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas  @Lost Ones Bill Simmons is also a blow hard.  
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:24:12
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas  @Lost Ones Shot blocking does not = elite defense.  Ibaka struggles with may aspects of team defense.  Harden's been pretty close to invincible offensively this season.
Landstander
2012-06-14 14:24:15
 @twistdov  Uh...I think you saying that Harden might be overvalued by us might be a little crazy.  Do the spurs overvalue Manu?    No...I think screwing with the chemistry of a team that's 3 wins away from a championship would be unwise (to put it mildly).  Even if they offered a #1 AND a #2 pick, I'd shoot it down.   Frankly, we've already developed Harden and seen his upside.  We know he's working out.  No pick in any draft is a 100% sure thing. 
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:24:29
 @Jooseppi BUT SERGE IS MORE UNIQUE BECAUSE HE BLOCKSSASSAFSAUOAFUOP
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:25:29
 @alvarex  @Lost Ones What's that even matter?  He's on our team and vacillates between being the 1st/2nd/3rd option.  It's the perfect role for him since he can affect a game offensively without using up tons of possessions.  On a team that used him as a number one option franchise player I have no doubt he could acquit himself well, but it would not be his ideal situation.  Just like Ginobili.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:25:29
 @FREE_COLE  @Jooseppi It's funny that y'all take so much offense to this.  And funny that some think a 2 pick (Westbrook and Harden drafted lower as "reaches) is of no value.
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 14:25:55
 @ou_sas  I actually don't understand why people think it will be so hard to resign both Ibaka, and Harden. They are in a perfect situation on a team that will contend for championships for the next decade they love OKC, and the city loves them. They will take considerablly less money and resign with OKC. Nothing unusual about players taking less money to stay in a perfect situation.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:26:13
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi Not really offended. I just don't agree at all and it's more fun making jokes than being super serious all the time. We're all bros here to me
okcjim
2012-06-14 14:26:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTOzcSqivEI&feature=player_embedded
dollarbillrussell
2012-06-14 14:26:38
@FF_pickups @ThunderStruck2412 Did you guys forget how much better Harden has gotten since he was drafted? Or the fact that this team wouldn't be in the finals without him? You sound ridiculous. You act like we're going to draft a player and plug him in as a great weapon immediately. That isn't how the NBA works, this isn't fantasy sports.
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:27:34
 @justin_mia  @Lost Ones It matters simply because I hope Harden doesn't think he can keep it up.  He's highly efficient as a third option and will go down in history (like Ginobili) as one of the best if he stays here for less.   If he goes somewhere else for more money, he'll regres towards the mean (ESPECIALLY at a place like the Bobcats).  Joe Johnson could have helped the Suns build a dynasty but left for gr$$ner pastures.  I hope Harden isn't overvaluing himself and we can afford to keep him.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:28:43
 @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi I mean we disagree now, but come game time, we're all thinking the same thinking. We just have different philosophies and the debate is fun.  I don't get to talk OKC ball here in Minnesota, so I come here.  Talk with some cool dudes and enjoy a good debate.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:29:01
 @alvarex  @Lost Ones James Harden is better than Joe Johnson right now, much less at any point during Joe Johnson's career.  Harden would be highly efficient in any role he had as an offensive option, relative to others with that role. 
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:29:06
My nightmare is that Harden wants to go play for his hometown Lakers and replace Kobe as the Man in town.
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 14:29:20
 @ou_sas Thanks, ou_sas.  Just logged on and I think you might have saved me a lot of time!
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:30:06
 @ThunderChick2010 You're welcome! :)
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:30:10
If we do lose Harden, can he come to MN here so I can continue showering him with love? Plus Rubio/Harden/Love would be fun as hell
cleandoe
2012-06-14 14:30:51
 @FREE_COLE *Dislike*
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:31:04
 @FREE_COLE You'd shower him with Love?
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 14:31:21
 @FREE_COLE  @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi "DT treated me like sh!t, go heat!!" lil Wayne after he suggested we trade harden for Ben gordon on daily thunder
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 14:31:23
 @Jooseppi  @FREE_COLE or would you shower with him AND Love
twistdov
2012-06-14 14:31:23
 @justin_mia Are you able to explain how our offensive concept -- and Harden's role within the team's framework -- can affect those stats?  
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:31:34
Would you trade Westbrook/Ibaka for Rubio/Love?
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:31:52
 @cleandoe I mean I'd much rather him stay in OKC so I can not feel guilty about cheering for them. But if we're losing him, he should come here. Just saying
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:32:04
 @justin_mia  @Lost Ones Joe is the only example I can think of in recent years since he made the same transition we all think Harden could/will make.   Ginobili is obviously the best example, but he took less to stay with a team reaching for greatness.  Due to that, he's been able to be on the court with 2 other great players his entire career and we see him as an amazing player.  *That* is what I want Harden to do.   But I think at this point we both will just agree to disagree, as I see Harden's game not as well fitted for the #1 option, while I grasp that you do.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:32:14
 @ThunderStruck2412 No.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:32:26
 @ThunderStruck2412 I can guarentee no one in MN is doing that.  People here are bananas for Rubio and Love.  They finally have players who are theirs again. Kinda like 01 KG
SB718
2012-06-14 14:32:43
I probably would choose Harden over Serge.  However I don't think Presti having to choose between them is a foregone conclusion.  Having said that for argument's sake let's play the replace Serge game.  I'm hearing all this "there are plenty of PFs that can...blah blah blah" Names. Who is reasonably available and can give enough of his skill set to help this team remain championship level, while not costing much? Durant as a full time 4 to me not wise.if a team already had that why the hell would they be getting rid of him? There's only 1 player in the draft that can fit this criteria and he won't be around after # 1.    
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:32:53
 @JimboSlice  @Jooseppi No. Set myself up for that damnit :(
cleandoe
2012-06-14 14:33:37
 @SB718 Javale McGee
SB718
2012-06-14 14:33:57
 @cleandoe Free agent.  Cheap goes out the window.  Next
Thunderbuzzy
2012-06-14 14:34:01
I think Presti already knows what he is going to do. He has seen this coming for a few months now. I have faith in him that he will do the right thing. he has been flawless so far. Why not trust him? If I am Harden or Ibaka I take a look at all the great players in the league and see what they are doing. They are all wanting to go somewhere to compete for titles.   Fisher literally bought out his own contract so he could sign with the Thunder. Dwight Howard and all his garbage? Lebron going to Miami. There is a reason all these guys are looking for great teams. Ibaka and Harden already have that. I think they will stay for less than they rightfully deserve,
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:34:01
 @SB718 I don't see how you can make the last statement considering Serge himself was drafted 24th.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:34:02
 @cleandoe  @SB718 That fails the doesn't cost much criteria.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:34:50
 @Thunderbuzzy I hope so. Definitely makes the case of staying with a contender easier if we win it this year.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:34:54
 @cleandoe We're gonna talk about Serge's BBIQ but want Javale McGee?
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:34:54
 @SB718 Ivan Johnson is restricted this year.  Will probably be cheap cause ATL is dumb
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:34:55
 @Thunderbuzzy Like because I hope so
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:35:12
 @SB718  @cleandoe pretty sure it was sarcasm
okcjim
2012-06-14 14:35:13
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8052563/2012-nba-finals-oklahoma-city-thunder-russell-westbrook-playing-hurt-thumb
cleandoe
2012-06-14 14:35:18
 @SB718 It was a joke lol
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 14:35:19
 @cleandoe  @SB718 Russ would literally murder javale
SB718
2012-06-14 14:35:37
 @FREE_COLE You're not serious right?  And he's 28
Thunderbuzzy
2012-06-14 14:36:02
 @alvarex Well there is the other side to this argument. Those guys I listed that were on the move already made their living on their contracts. And Harden and Ibaka haven't yet. But it's not like we can't give them enough money to live high on the hog still. We just can't give them the world.
alvarex
2012-06-14 14:36:03
 @okcjim He's not human.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:36:29
 @justin_mia That's great that's not a name.  Plus it took Serge 4 years to get to be the player he is even though he has room to grow.  This team is in the Finals now, we're replacing our starting 4 with a project?
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:36:50
 @SB718 Did you watch him? He's a great defender who also can catch a pass.  Not saying it happens, just throwing out a name.  As for his age, so? Nick is 31 and probably our best big defender this playoffs.  
SB718
2012-06-14 14:36:58
I've seen worse, glad you cleared that up @cleandoe 
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:37:16
 @SB718 But the hypothetical isn't number two pick for Ibaka?
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:37:35
 @SB718  @justin_mia If we trade harden for a pick, it's a project! So we're trading our #3 scorer for a project?!
SB718
2012-06-14 14:38:18
 @FREE_COLE If you think Ivan Johnson is a great defender clearly you didn't watch him
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:38:31
 @FREE_COLE  @SB718  @justin_mia Somebody's gambling on the Skip Bayless "Let KD shoot all of the shots!!!!11!!1!" option to carry the offense.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:38:34
You guys I got it.  We'll just get KG. He's unrestricted.  Problem solved :D
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:38:36
 @FREE_COLE  @SB718  @justin_mia I don't consider the #2 pick a project. And still, you aren't thinking big picture. Ibaka locked up + cheap talent at number two pick > Harden alone
SB718
2012-06-14 14:39:05
 @FREE_COLE He also literally got banished from a country, or a league I should say
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:39:11
 @SB718 I think there's enough talent in this draft that we can get good talent for Ibaka that could reasonably approximate his overall impact on the game.  I trust Presti in draft matters...
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:39:17
 @FREE_COLE Rumors are he might sign with Spurs
SB718
2012-06-14 14:39:46
 @ThunderStruck2412 That's not my point.  If you're saying it's either or Ibaka has to be replaced.  I'm not paying attention to that stupid rumor
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:40:23
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FREE_COLE  @SB718  @justin_mia Let me ask you this, Thunderstruck. If we do trade Harden for the #2 pick, who are you taking? I'm curious.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:40:24
 @ThunderStruck2412  @SB718  @justin_mia I disagree with that sentiment.  Everyone in this draft past Davis is a project in some sense.  Look at MKG.  Great defender, bad on offense.  Beal, I don't know enough about but still a project on defense likely.  So it comes down to whether Ibaka locked up > Harden locked up which I totally disagree with
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:41:19
 @SB718 http://bkref.com/tiny/0m2yp Some wings in there but its the nature of the search options available. 
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:41:20
 @SB718 He posted a drtg of 98.  He murdered Dwight in season.  You are 100% wrong.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:41:28
 @justin_mia So in other words you don't have a name.  You can't have it both ways playing amateur GM then halfway in say "well I'll trust the guys paid to do the process"
cleandoe
2012-06-14 14:41:56
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FREE_COLE Well since everyone is creating rumors why don't we just create our own?   Psst. Psst, guys. I heard we Presti has already convinced KG to come to us 
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:42:01
 @ThunderStruck2412 Than we sign Duncan! Those two hate each other, highly doubt they end up on same team in all honesty
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:42:29
 @FREE_COLE My high school teammate, Jake Eastman, dad is an assistant coach for the Celtics ( Kevin Eastman)...that's just what he told me
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:43:05
 @SB718 The scenario I envision would trade Ibaka for a draft selection.  I named plenty of names in the previous thread.  Current players, of course it will be difficult to trade Ibaka for a cheap player under contract.  That's why I like the idea of trading him for a pick in the draft.
soonerfan237
2012-06-14 14:43:55
 @okcjim I think Kidd-Gilchrist is a nice player, but I wouldn't be thrilled about drafting him.  He's a good defender/rebounder, but is not a good scorer.  He's not a player you can give the ball to and have him get some points.  The Thunder already have only 3 players that are good scorers.  If we trade Harden for him, we would be down to two.  That puts way too much pressure on Westbrook/Durant to be great every night.  We already have plenty of defense/rebounding/effort players on this roster.  To me, he seems like a more athletic Sefolosha without an outside shot.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:43:56
 @FREE_COLE That being said, I could see a situation where Garnett would sign for minimum to play for the Thunder and chase one more ring 
Thunderbuzzy
2012-06-14 14:44:43
How about we start a donation hat at all Thunder events and the proceeds get split between Ibaka and Harden! That can compensate for their contract discrepency! lol
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:45:26
I'm glad this thread happened so I could take my mind off the game tonight.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:45:57
 @FREE_COLE Ok we're in the Finals with Ivan Johnson as the starting 4...I guess you win. We'll ignore that he's 28 and that if he's as great defensive as you say he is he won't come cheap so it's irrelevant.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:46:07
 @ThunderStruck2412 Yeah I've heard the same thing. I'm just throwing out names now for fun. I'm still of the opinion we trade Perk + someone/something for weak players and start cole and use the saved money to keep serge/harden
cleandoe
2012-06-14 14:46:09
 @Jooseppi There's a game tonight?!
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:46:27
 @Jooseppi The best part is that in a couple of months, this could all be a moot discussion because Presti will have managed to sign both to long term deals.
justin_mia
2012-06-14 14:46:27
 @SB718 Worth noting that many on this board were engaged in a similar discussion regarding Greg Monroe and trading Serge to get him in the 2010 draft.  The board was split in their opinions.  How would that look now?  There is some good talent to be had in these drafts in the 5-10 range if your scouting is good.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:46:31
 @SB718 COLLISON IS 31.  
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:46:47
I also think the Thunder can get a really quality pick where they are right now in the draft
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:47:00
I would LOVE if Royce White fell to them
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:47:27
 @ThunderStruck2412 MN is apparently in love with him.  Bringing him back!
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:48:09
 @ThunderStruck2412 Not joking, I'd both hate and love it.  He's an awesome player and would make serge better but I'd hate having to cheer for him.  KG is one of the few players I personally dislike
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 14:48:26
 @ou_sas  draft is June 28, 2012
SB718
2012-06-14 14:48:31
 @justin_mia Greg Monroe is a good player.  Is he good on a bad team with no expectations or just good?  Maybe he's just good.  But he's not available.   You have fun with John Henson, Royce White, Thomas Robinson, Tyler Zeller, etc.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:48:40
 @ThunderStruck2412 It's just not going to happen at this point. Teams have liked him in interviews. Lottery level talent, off-court stuff was holding him back. Teams seem to be fine with it.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:48:58
 @FF_pickups And contract negotiations can start in early July, right?
SB718
2012-06-14 14:49:15
 @FREE_COLE And this is relevant to who replaces Serge how? 
ThunderDude
2012-06-14 14:49:33
Only if they throw in Byron Mullens
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 14:49:38
 @ou_sas  I just meant that the trade will have or won't have happened in less than a couple months.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:50:05
 @FF_pickups That's true.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:50:15
 @Jooseppi I don't get why you posted that.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:50:20
Holy shit Silva.
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:50:31
Damn Silva.
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 14:50:38
 @ou_sas  I hope we just sign everyone.  I love the Beard, I love Ibaka but I know Sam is going to make the right decision.
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 14:51:06
 @okcjim   This can be a very good thing if it makes him pass te ball more to Durant instead of shooting. I am sick, and tired of always being behind in the 1st half. Durant needs to get the ball much more in the 1st half
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:51:38
 @SB718 Maybe the fact that age really doesn't matter all that much.  Collison averages 17 minutes in these playoffs.  Serge averages 28.  KD is playing more and more minutes at the PF.  We can cover for serge's missed minutes
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:51:49
 @SB718 You wanted names.
ThunderStruck2412
2012-06-14 14:53:12
Yeah, probably not. But they still look like they could get Draymond Green or Jeff Taylor, both of whom I think could really help off the bench.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 14:53:13
 @FREE_COLE  @ThunderStruck2412 Golden State, Denver, and several others also have said they love him. I love him, but if we're going to get him we'd have to trade wayyyy up it looks like sadly :(
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 14:53:20
 @SB718 His overall impact isn't hard to replace. Most of those guys were drafted once upon a time. 
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 14:53:48
 @ou_sas  Durant certainly does NOT get near enough shots especially in the first half. I am sick and tire of always trailing in the first half.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:54:38
 @Jooseppi  @SB718 People don't get drafted ever.  They just join teams they want to like Eli Manning
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 14:55:10
 @FREE_COLE  @ThunderStruck2412 I'm the exact opposite. I love KG. He's the realest fake tough guy there is lol
Keith00
2012-06-14 14:56:34
 @ThunderStruck2412 Jeff Taylor or Fab Melo would be my picks if we stay in the back 3rd of the first round. Taylor could be a young and cheaper Thabo in a couple years. Melo could develop into a taller, more athletic Perkins.
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 14:56:40
 @justin_mia  I jus cann't unerstand this garbaeg about trading Ibaka it is stupid unless you are trading him for Anthony Davis
ou_sas
2012-06-14 14:57:00
http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2012/06/13/nba-finals-kevin-durant-on-the-cover-of-sports-illustrated/   Something to cheer everyone up after this afternoon's discussion.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 14:57:08
 @JimboSlice  @ThunderStruck2412 His punch to the balls on Frye, his cancer comment, his thing with duncan recently.  Or just universally targetting euros. I hate it all
SB718
2012-06-14 14:57:44
So you gave me wings like Kyle Korver, Brandon Rush guys that cost way too much and aren't available like Chandler and  Bynu guys that suck and aren't available like Joel Anthony, guys that are good and I believe are restricted and would cost a lot like Ryan Anderson, and oh yeah two of his teammates.   Good job@Jooseppi 
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 14:58:47
 @ThunderStruck2412  I would as I have Love ranked as the 4th best player in the NBA, and Rubio is a true PG something Durant needs.
SB718
2012-06-14 14:59:52
 @MostJadedGamer  @ThunderStruck2412 You do know they're in the Finals right?
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 15:00:08
 @SB718 So essentially what you're telling me is Anthony Davis is the only serviceable big in this draft class?
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 15:00:44
Presti's secret plan.  Trade Harden.  Sign himself.  Take charges alongside nick. Become most hated white duo since Larry Bird and Kevin McHale
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:01:23
 @FREE_COLE I thought he was planning long term for the Collison-Cole frontcourt.
SB718
2012-06-14 15:01:25
 @Jooseppi So you're telling me Serge is no better than serviceable?  "Serviceable" players play 10 minutes a game.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 15:01:31
 @ThunderStruck2412 actually after measurements, Green's stock has considerably dropped, so actually, it would be possible we could get a guy like Jeff Taylor AND move some useless assets (or just pay outright) for an earlyish 2nd round pick and get Green as well if we really want him. That would leave us with only one more rookie contract we would have to have to be able to fill out a roster while keeping all 4 of the big 4.   I'm not as high on Green as some are here, but in that scenario, I'm not complaining at all.
Keith00
2012-06-14 15:01:52
 @FF_pickups  @ou_sas I just can't see it this year. Like it was said, the draft is all of two days after a potential game 7. There's no way Presti watches the team win a championship or face heartbreaking defeat, then less than a week later trade one of the core for a draft pick.  It would be stupid (which Presti isn't) do make that trade if we win, especially since a full core would make us favorites next year. It would be only more crushing for the team to lose and then watch a good friend get shipped out for a rookie.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 15:02:02
 @ou_sas Cole doesn't take enough charges yet :(
cleandoe
2012-06-14 15:02:08
 @ou_sas For some reason I was expecting the cover of SI in the Thunderstruck trailer. This is good too!
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 15:02:09
 @SB718 Choose your adjective for Serge then insert it into the question.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 15:02:14
 @FREE_COLE Collison, Cole, Presti. Make it happen
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 15:03:10
 @JimboSlice Free_ColePrestison
SB718
2012-06-14 15:03:28
I'd hate to go over the luxury tax because KD is making so much money.  I wonder could we get Travis Outlaw and a future first for him.  Sacramento is in disarray, they might do it right?
neo12
2012-06-14 15:03:33
Well, if we are going to trade Harden, at least wait till end of next year, so we can win another championship first.  His value will only go up if we wait
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 15:03:53
 @FREE_COLE imagine, our white guys vs Minny's white guys (and spanish whiteish guy). That's better theater than the finals right there
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 15:04:17
 @ou_sas  Yea this is what is going to happen. Both Ibaka, and Harden will resign before January. That is what is going to happen.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 15:04:38
 @FREE_COLE Throw Brooks in at point guard and sign Steve Novak. Instant championship!
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:04:53
You know, putting trade rumors aside, I think tonight might be Miami's best punch. Which might leave them gassed for the rest of the series. All we have to do is weather it.
SB718
2012-06-14 15:05:11
 @Jooseppi All Star level talent(didn't say he'd make the ASG) and yes Anthony Davis is the only one.
neo12
2012-06-14 15:06:10
 @ou_sas I think game 1 was their best chance to steal one.  They aren't going to take one from OKC homecourt now.  I'm pretty confident we figured out right D for them now
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 15:06:27
 @JimboSlice Love, Rubio, and Kahn coached by Wally Szczerbiak vs Cole/Nick/Presti coached by Jack Sikma. Who wins?
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 15:07:10
 @SB718 Serge isn't an All-Star level talent. Maybe at his highest potential possible peak for a couple minutes.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 15:07:20
 @FREE_COLE  @JimboSlice Obviousanswerisobvious
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 15:07:20
Time for me to leave. Just make sure we don't trade Lazar while I'm away
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 15:07:33
 @JimboSlice oooo I forgot to add Brooks and Adelman to the lineups.  
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:08:12
 @neo12 It probably was their best chance, but I think they're going to give their best punch tonight. And I agree, the Thunder are much more confident now than to start game 1.
SB718
2012-06-14 15:08:53
 @Jooseppi a 22 year old with his skill set doesn't have the talent to be an All-Star....ok
SB718
2012-06-14 15:09:40
What bigs do you consider all star level talents in this draft btw? @Jooseppi
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 15:10:08
 @SB718  @Jooseppi Davis if he starts demanding the ball.  Drummond if he learns to focus. That's it
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:10:23
 @SB718  @Jooseppi SB, I'm guessing it's a comparative statement. Considering who the PFs are in the west... yeah, he's not beating Love or Griffin any time soon, and there's enough bigs out there who are the team's only star who are going to beat out Serge for that.
Thunderstruck_24
2012-06-14 15:10:24
Umm, yeah we better not trade Harden.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:11:26
 @Jooseppi What if it's to reacquire Byron?
SB718
2012-06-14 15:11:56
Once again I said he had the talent to be an All Star level player not that he'd make the all star team, considering the competition @ou_sas  @Jooseppi
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 15:12:03
 @ou_sas  @Jooseppi only if Lazar leaves his headband behind for Byron to wear perfectly straight
rribbonz
2012-06-14 15:12:10
Just saw Thabo in a Norman Chrysler, Jeep, & Dodge commercial. I guess that means Thabo has finally arrived? :)
okcjim
2012-06-14 15:12:43
Worst sign I saw the other night.    "Ibaka gives OKC a Harden"
SB718
2012-06-14 15:12:47
 @FREE_COLE  @Jooseppi I said I'd trade him for Davis.  Andre "I admittedly didn't try my hardest in college, couldn't even dominate the Big East, 29 percent foul shooter Drummond?  Cool.
neo12
2012-06-14 15:13:00
 @Thunderstruck_24 Not this season.  I think after next we will only be able to keep 2 of 3 of Russ,Harden,Ibaka.  One of them will need to be traded.  Anyhow, we need to enjoy while we can, this is a special team
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:13:42
http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2012/06/14/kevin-durant-cant-believe-sam-presti-is-so-young/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter So, uh... I guess this team is young, huh? Is that the storyline we're going with? Yeah? Okay, let's go with that.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 15:14:46
 @ou_sas Liking for KD's comment
neo12
2012-06-14 15:14:50
Will the game be stream from ABC site  I'm overseas now, scrambling to find out if i need to go find a place to watch the game.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 15:14:51
 @SB718  @Jooseppi Again, focus.  29% is bad, but come on.  That never would have stopped Shaq ever.  Read any ncaa blog and they say drummond has the potential
Dw7
2012-06-14 15:15:03
 @ou_sas  @FREE_COLE Cole will the Robert Parish of the trio.
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 15:15:18
 @neo12 As much as Miami talked about Game 1 being a "feel out" game, surely they realized we got to feel them out too.
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 15:15:19
 @SB718  @ou_sas  @Jooseppi How can you be an all star level talent if you can't make the team? That's basically the definition.  
Thunderstruck_24
2012-06-14 15:15:30
 @neo12 royce provides a stream for every game on the pregame primer
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 15:15:37
 @ThunderChick2010  @neo12 Thunder by 7
neo12
2012-06-14 15:16:23
 @Thunderstruck_24 Yeah, but they are usually hit and miss.  I'm trying to find reliable one. Can't miss a minute of the action
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 15:16:42
 @ou_sas You had me at "putting trade rumors aside . . . "
SB718
2012-06-14 15:16:47
 @FREE_COLE  @ou_sas  @Jooseppi So Harden isn't an All Star talent? 
rribbonz
2012-06-14 15:17:42
And I don't mean he was standing in the background. He was the freaking star of that commercial, baby. You go Thabo!    
SB718
2012-06-14 15:18:51
 @FREE_COLE  @Jooseppi Or I could've watched him at UConn.  Kwame Brown, Olowokandi, I'm guessing a few blogs said they had potential too huh? Shaq never shot 29%  He's 53% career, been as high as low 60s.  50% is we're uneasy giving you the ball in the clutch, 29% is you're not on the floor in the clutch
areayewhy
2012-06-14 15:18:57
 @neo12 i believe it'll be on espn3 which is a stream
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 15:19:13
 @SB718  @ou_sas  @Jooseppi By definition, no.  Next year, yes he'll be an all star, then he can have that label.  Right now, no.  It's a hardline definition, sure, but an easy definition to follow that also helps avoid over using adjectives
neo12
2012-06-14 15:19:53
 @rribbonz Kobe, then Parker, Ginolbili.  If he can sustain on James/Wade he can run for OKC mayor
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 15:20:41
 @SB718  @Jooseppi Mistakes can be made, yes.  I only said he has the potential to.  Those players had the potential and failed.  Pretty simple
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 15:21:25
Tronchaser, are you going to the game tonight?
jameshardensbeard
2012-06-14 15:23:44
@neo12 @ou_sas lets just hope they play D in the first half. These last 2 games have nearly given me a heart attack...
thunder_fan_in_korea
2012-06-14 15:24:22
 @ThunderChick2010  @neo12 yeah, finals game ones don't really count. teams just feeling one another out. I was appalled at the ticket prices. 1k? should have been the $12 like a preseason game.
OBoyzOld Man
2012-06-14 15:25:00
@neo12 The first time I read this I thought you said "at least wait till after tonight." Must be time for some ADD meds or a nap.
OBoyzOld Man
2012-06-14 15:26:45
@ou_sas @FREE_COLE Need to sign 3 more former Jayhawks so we can put an All Rockchalk Squad on the Floor.
CDSpark
2012-06-14 15:29:15
Anyone in Oklahoma County just feel an earthquake?
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:30:10
 @OBoyzOld Man  @ou_sas  @FREE_COLE Chalmers, Xavier Henry, who else?
loplopol
2012-06-14 15:32:55
 @areayewhy i use first row sports a lot. just google it and it'll be at the top. There are usually a lot of links, most of which are about the best quality you can expect from a stream. otherwise, you can try adthe.eu or check these links http://forum.wiziwig.eu/threads/74700-NBA-Today!-June-14th-Playoffs
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 15:33:13
 @CDSpark Are you sure it wasn't just the Thunder bandwagon rolling through?
C-Wil
2012-06-14 15:33:36
 @CDSpark thought I heard something but I didn't feel anything. 
Dw7
2012-06-14 15:33:53
 @areayewhy  I like streaming off of Xbox live.
loplopol
2012-06-14 15:34:00
 @rribbonz That's big time right there. Not even KD got into that commercial.
SB718
2012-06-14 15:35:54
With nothing to base it on I could see Harden taking less to stay.  He could re up for 4 years or so win 2 or 3 more rings and hit the open market in his prime ready to lead is own team and max out on his dollars.  Sounds like a situation where everybody wins.   Serge, who knows...he's restricted after next season correct?
CDSpark
2012-06-14 15:36:13
 @C-Wil Sound like an explosion, but hope it was an earthquake
OBoyzOld Man
2012-06-14 15:36:23
@ou_sas @FREE_COLE Pick from: Darrell Arthur, D Gooden, Hinrich, Morris & Morris, Paul Pierce, Brandon Rush, Josh Selby
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:36:55
 @OBoyzOld Man  @ou_sas  @FREE_COLE That's actually a decent field.
loplopol
2012-06-14 15:38:03
 @Dw7  @areayewhy +1 if  neo12 brought his xbox overseas
loplopol
2012-06-14 15:39:05
 @CDSpark  @C-Wil That was the sound of the Heat's confidence blowing away with the wind
bmuelle21
2012-06-14 15:39:37
If this trade were to ever happen idk who would be more upset:   the thunder fan base because harden was traded or harden because he would have to play for the bobcats lol
neo12
2012-06-14 15:41:37
crap, just read that Russ's thumb is still bothering him.  Hope he shoots his pull up  better than in game1. That's probably going to be key in series, otherwise they will just pack it in the paint.
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 15:42:18
 @CDSpark  @C-Wil It might have been Skip's head exploding . . .
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:42:31
For the record, as of right now (i.e., before game 2), the Thunder have the numbers 2, 7 and 10 top scorers in the playoffs. Russ and Harden should overtake the guys in front of them to move up, too.   http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_top_10_p.html
CDSpark
2012-06-14 15:42:38
 @ThunderChick2010  @C-Wil That will come after the game
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:44:14
Russ should be up to 4 by game 3, if not tonight if he goes off for over 30.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 15:45:00
 @CDSpark theres been a few small earthquakes this week late at night
ou_sas
2012-06-14 15:45:06
@CDSpark @kfor: Getting lots of calls about a possible earthquake in Del City. Did you feel it? 3:42 pm  
FF_pickups
2012-06-14 15:45:16
 @SB718  I could totally see what you say happening but on the other hand.  After I read that article about him, he picked going to Arizona State to blaze his own trail.  I could see him wanting to go somewhere to blaze his own trail in the NBA, too.  I hope that notion is completely wrong.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 15:48:11
 @neo12 Everyone's hurting by now. Russ is a beast - he'll get through it
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 15:50:17
 @ou_sas  @CDSpark KFOR confirming Jim Traber fell over. False alarm.
Lasers
2012-06-14 15:51:15
 @FREE_COLE  @JimboSlice game-changer
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 15:52:49
 @ThunderChick2010 Sadly, not at the moment.  Couldn't swing a ticket.  10% chance I may get to go due to my bro-in-law getting called out for work.  We'll see, but I'm not holding my breath.   I'm a sad panda tonight.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 15:53:04
 @thunderbuzzy   4hours ago - 'The next time Skip Bayless says he is from OKC I am going to break my TV'   Between now and then - Skip Bayless has said that he is from OKC 329 times
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 15:54:12
http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/heatzone/2012/06/14/respect-aside-shane-battier-will-continue-annoying-kevin-durant/ -------- Battier has never heard another player complain about it. “That’s our running joke,” Battier said. “We say, ‘They’ll never admit it. They’ll never admit it.’ Kobe (Bryant) will swear up and down on all of his MVP and championship trophies that it doesn’t work. Doesn’t want to give me anything.”  
C-Wil
2012-06-14 15:55:44
 @cleandoe  @thunderbuzzy I think you were off by about 671.
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 15:56:03
 @okcjim I saw that.. I laughed but thought it was pretty dumb as well.
cleandoe
2012-06-14 15:56:34
 @C-Wil  @thunderbuzzy I'm so sorry. I only had access to the times he said it live on air
OUThunderfan
2012-06-14 16:00:34
 @CDSpark A 3.3  3 km SE of Jones
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 16:04:14
 @Tronchaser  I keep checking Ticketexchange, and the prices are dropping a bit.  Very, very tempted . . .
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-14 16:05:35
Sorry guys, I had to check out of the 'better to trade Harden or Ibaka for #2 pick' debate around post #180. I'm not reading through 400 posts to catch up. So, in summary, I was right all along, and you all should just move on with your lives. The End.
bmuelle21
2012-06-14 16:06:48
well i can't make it to the game tonight cuz I'm in iowa :( so whoever is going to the game on here cheer extra loud for me! lol
ou_sas
2012-06-14 16:07:15
https://twitter.com/okcthunder/status/213376375753687040/photo/1 Shirts tonight!
bmuelle21
2012-06-14 16:07:53
 @ThunderChick2010  @Tronchaser buy some! could be the last game you see this year since i'm thinking Thunder in 5 is a real possibility if we win tonight lol
C-Wil
2012-06-14 16:08:10
 @ou_sas pretty cool but I think we need a three color theme now.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 16:08:34
 @C-Wil Maybe we break out the blue/orange for game 6?
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-14 16:08:40
 @ou_sas One of these days folks are gonna run out of t-shirt slogans. We'll be wearing "GO! FIGHT! WIN!"
ou_sas
2012-06-14 16:08:58
 @Jax Raging Bile Duct GOOD GAME GOOD EFFORT
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 16:09:11
 @bmuelle21  @Tronchaser  Get behind me, Satan!
bmuelle21
2012-06-14 16:09:13
 @Jax Raging Bile Duct  @ou_sas play with your heart
soonerfan237
2012-06-14 16:09:45
 @ou_sas  @C-Wil I think they don't use the orange because a lot of OU fans would refuse to wear anything orange.
MisterE410
2012-06-14 16:10:06
@neo12 All finals games are being shown online at ESPN3
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:10:43
 @soonerfan237  @ou_sas  @C-Wil I'm an OU fan and I'd wear an orange out shirt.  Got no problem wearing thunder orange.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 16:10:47
 @soonerfan237  @C-Wil I'd rock it for a series clincher. As long as you stay away from burnt orange or neon orange, I think you could swing it.
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-14 16:11:27
 @C-Wil  @ou_sas They should start doing the two colors by every other seat, alternating rows, so we look like a giant checkerboard. With the constant standing and swaying, I'm sure we'll make a few onlookers dizzy with our living optical illusion. TV may hate it though.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 16:12:10
 @Jax Raging Bile Duct  @C-Wil  @ou_sas yeah someone would have a seizure and then you got a lawsuit on your hands
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 16:13:17
 @Tronchaser You might need to engage in some backchanneling efforts to get brother-in-law out of the way.  :)
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:13:36
 @ThunderChick2010 I'm trolling stubhub.. they are coming down, but man, I don't know if I can pull the trigger on lower level tix.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 16:14:01
 @OBoymuzik  @Jax Raging Bile Duct  @C-Wil "The NBA and ABC would like to warn viewers that Thunder fans are psychotic, and may induce seizures or epilepsy. Viewer discretion is advised."
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:14:11
 @ThunderChick2010 Oh definitely, definitely (Russ troll voice)
bmuelle21
2012-06-14 16:14:27
 @Tronchaser  @ThunderChick2010 2 were going for $595 which is almost half the price they were going for earlier
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:15:50
 @Jax Raging Bile Duct  @C-Wil  @ou_sas Soccer style chants would be friggin AWESOME! And I don't even like soccer!
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:16:18
 @Jax Raging Bile Duct  @ou_sas TEAM is TEAM
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 16:17:14
Think Cole goes for 40 tonight? Might be in the cards.
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 16:17:50
speaking of our crowd i was watching the US open today and the spot for the game tonight said "Magic Johnson said this is the loudest arena he's ever been in, thats a big statement, tune in tonight to see if they can get even louder"
C-Wil
2012-06-14 16:18:07
 @Jooseppi 40 legkicks, high fives and first pumps?
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:18:30
 @OBoymuzik I didn't even think last game was our loudest, to be honest with ya.
KellOne
2012-06-14 16:18:40
 @C-Wil  Pieces of gum?
Fuzzy Logic
2012-06-14 16:19:07
Hey CHO!!!! We sent you Byron Mullens and DJ White.... What more do you want from us?!
criznazy53
2012-06-14 16:19:55
I think  things are going to be a lot different tonight. I think Lebron is going to post up against  durant to get to the rim. Possibly get Durant in foul trouble.  I think wade is tired of the media giving him crap.  Bosh will start to spread the floor. I think this one is going to be close. I'm interested to see how the Intense the heat come out and what adjustments Spo makes. 
C-Wil
2012-06-14 16:20:00
 @Tronchaser  @OBoymuzik agreed it was an average OKC crowd but even an average one is louder than most arenas. I want to see it get really amped in there tonight. I think the bad start in the last game knocked the place dead. 
walkerdog
2012-06-14 16:20:57
HELL NO    ON HARDEN   THUNDER UP!!!!!
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 16:21:37
 @C-Wil  @Tronchaser its been louder this playoffs for sure...just crazy that thats what they were advertising
ou_sas
2012-06-14 16:21:39
 @C-Wil  @Tronchaser  @OBoymuzik When the Peake starts rockin', don't bother knockin'. 
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:22:30
anyone have an extra tshirt from the SA series game 4?  The one that says "Team is 18203" .. I think that's the best one and that's the one game I missed. Bleh.
KellOne
2012-06-14 16:22:34
 @ThunderChick2010  @CDSpark  @C-Wil We need video confirmation of this...
bmuelle21
2012-06-14 16:23:25
 @Tronchaser  @OBoymuzik I thought it was louder game 6 of last series
CDSpark
2012-06-14 16:24:12
2.5M quake 1km South of Nichols Hills   15:24  Local
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 16:24:21
 @Tronchaser  @ThunderChick2010 I'm only willing to do the "cheapest" 300-level . . . but only need one tonight.
Fuzzy Logic
2012-06-14 16:24:22
These mottos get worse and worse... the only way they can justify "Thunder is Family" tonight is if they play Sister Sledge repeatedly...
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:24:25
 @bmuelle21  @OBoymuzik Yes, it was.  That place was a'rockin' that night.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 16:24:58
 @Fuzzy Logic I really, really want them to troll the Heat with a "good game good effort shirt for game 6. If it gets there.
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-14 16:26:03
 @CDSpark Well the bad news is that the quakes have made it to the middle of the city. The good news is that 2.5 is basically insignificant.
EatSleepThunder
2012-06-14 16:27:12
We arent going to trade harden http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6_KYulzT4M Case closed
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 16:28:08
 @Jax Raging Bile Duct  @CDSpark Tell that to the poor old lady in Nichols Hills who dropped an empty paper cup.
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:29:37
 @ou_sas  @Fuzzy Logic They will never do it, but man that would be suuuuuuuwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
loplopol
2012-06-14 16:31:31
 @CDSpark What if tonight.. Bron shoots potential game winner. Que Earthquake Ball bounces out. Thunder win. :O
OBoymuzik
2012-06-14 16:32:01
 @Jooseppi  @Jax Raging Bile Duct  @CDSpark luckily nichols hills PD just returned from a seminar in Beverly hills on "coffee accidents"
CDSpark
2012-06-14 16:32:01
 @loplopol Heart failures increase exponentially
ThunderBelize
2012-06-14 16:37:26
Game 1 replay on NBA TV - made me think about that moment in the 4th when KD was calling for the over the top and RW drove and hit a tough J just below the FT line. He hit it and when the cameras catch up with them getting set on it looks like him and KD (might have been Scotty) had a talk and RW, from what I could make out said " Yeah, I got it" What does everyone make of that?
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-14 16:38:21
 @Jooseppi  Tell that to the poor old lady in Nichols Hills who dropped a just-emptied platinum and crystal goblet of Courvoisier onto the Egyptian silk and Maltesian velvet laden fluff pillow where she was resting from her rigorous and intense day of being awake.   fix'd
OUThunderfan
2012-06-14 16:38:28
This isn't happening at all.  Why would Presti trade a proven 6th man stud (who is improving day by day) for an draft pick for an unproven player just to save some money??  Come on!
Jooseppi
2012-06-14 16:39:30
 @ThunderBelize I think Russ rarely has to throw over a fronting defender and was worried about turning it over. It's not a pass he's comfortable with. Should have been working on it in practice today and yesterday though, because they'll front Durant again.
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:41:31
 @Jooseppi  @ThunderBelize I agree. I was sitting right in front of that play.  You could kind of see it that Russ didn't wanna throw it over.  Almost like the Heat were baiting him to do so.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 16:42:13
http://hoopspeak.com/2012/06/thunder-rolling-at-the-rim/   Finally, someone (not a thunder fan) standing up for the Thunder not being a jump shooting team.
Lost Ones
2012-06-14 16:42:25
 @OUThunderfan depending how-much harden command i have no issue with it harden isn't worth anything over 11 mil per year
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 16:44:36
 @Jooseppi Free Cole 2012 movement.  
FREE_COLE
2012-06-14 16:45:04
 @Jax Raging Bile Duct You missed my unveiling of Presti's secret plan!
Jax Raging Bile Duct
2012-06-14 16:47:43
 @FREE_COLE  I found it. Ha!
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 16:47:44
For those of you who like Fifa, I definitely recommend the new Fifa Street. I stayed up until 1:30 last night knowing I had to get up early for work. Extremely addicting. Obviously not as simulation as Fifa, but still a very good representation of the real thing with some fun tricks sprinkled in and passing, making runs, etc still being important. Having to unlock the moves on world tour mode is also a great touch because, unlike Fifa (at least for me), it really gives you a chance to learn the moves and use them situationally a little better (the move controls are also much simpler to execute). If you're hesitant about buying it after the previous installments of Fifa Street (which were crap), I'd at least rent it or buy a used copy off ebay for a cheap price.
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 16:49:59
OKC Game 1 Shot Distribution   At the rim: 36/77 = 46.7% 3-pointers: 17/77 = 22.1% Long 2s: 13/77 = 16.9% Midtown: 11/77 = 14.3%   We're not going to lose too many games when we attack the rim like that.
dollarbillrussell
2012-06-14 16:50:25
 @Lost Ones  @OUThunderfan You are being an idiot. No one in this draft would come in and immediately impact this team the way Harden does. And then on top of that, the chances that the #2 pick would pan out to be as efficient and diverse as Harden in 3 years are extremely slim. So even, if by great fortune, that player did end up as good as Harden, you're still looking at a 3 year window of getting back to where we are now. Very shrew business my friend.
ou_sas
2012-06-14 16:50:28
 @Tronchaser Yup, posted that article below :)
jtshoopsblog
2012-06-14 16:50:54
That's true what u say about the contract situation of OKC, but I don't see the Cats giving up the second pick for Harden.  I don't know about that.  Certainly Harden will command a big payday, possibly even the max and I doubt the Thunder will want to pay a player that much money if he primarily comes off the bench.
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 16:53:01
 @dollarbillrussell  @Lost Ones  @OUThunderfan tell that to the other guy who was arguing extremely hard that "the #2 pick might be the best we could get for him" and, if given the choice "you definitely keep Ibaka over Harden"..   ... and he knows, because he's "a collegiate coach" and we're "not thinking like gm's"    if you can't tell... i disagreed with the things he said lol
dollarbillrussell
2012-06-14 16:53:07
 @ThunderStruck2412  @FREE_COLE Yes that's all over ESPN. Duncan already shot it down. You are being retarded today reading into all of these rumors and then running with them.
Nick the Quick 4 Life
2012-06-14 16:57:09
 @OUThunderfan Because Harden is going to get max. Which would already put them into the luxury tax. If that is the case then the team can't really pay Ibaka. Also, remember that this isn't just a little money. When in the luxury tax you are basically paying double, the salary and the tax)
jdstorm
2012-06-14 16:57:25
Why Give up Harden for pick two, when Ibaka could get you pick 5,  and probably pick 3 if you included okc's late first founder.  Especially with KD playing more PF recently
JimboSlice
2012-06-14 16:59:29
 @Nick the Quick 4 Life  @OUThunderfan what is it that people don't understand about a) sign-and -trades b) restricted free agency? If another team is going to sign Harden for the max, it's asinine to think they wouldn't give up assets for him in a sign-and-trade. We hold ALL the cards in Ibaka and Harden's cases, so even if BOTH get offered max, we match, and then trade to the highest bidder. If nobody bites right away, we keep them and trade them sometime during the season/ at the deadline. There really should be no fear whatsoever of them walking for nothing.
ThunderBelize
2012-06-14 17:00:07
 @Tronchaser  @Jooseppi Just to be clear Tronchaser - I am liking because of your analysis and NOT because you were sitting that damn close to the action! For that you get a big ol' green-with-evny-dislike!
thunder_fan_in_korea
2012-06-14 17:01:36
 @jdstorm trade ibaka. draft mkg. starting 5 -- westbrook, sefolosha, mkg, durant, perkins. not too shabby.
dollarbillrussell
2012-06-14 17:02:07
 @JimboSlice  @Nick the Quick 4 Life  @OUThunderfan Some of the comments people are making on this thread had me questioning whether I was posting on ESPN for a second.
Tronchaser
2012-06-14 17:03:09
 @ThunderBelize  @Jooseppi Noted, and then I remember you're sitting on a beach in Belize! Ha!
OSU EE
2012-06-14 17:09:02
So Bruce Bowen just said he'd take Kobe Bryant over KD RIGHT NOW to close a game in the 4th quarter.  The other guy just looked at him like he was retarded...
OSU EE
2012-06-14 17:10:06
http://dailythunder.com/2012/06/heat-vs-thunder-game-2-pregame-primer/#more-20792
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 17:16:02
HA - That's what I'm wearing right now!  I've got two from every game--except SA game 6 and this one.  I took my sis with me and she selfishly kept the shirt.  :)
ThunderChick2010
2012-06-14 17:17:57
 @Tronchaser . . . but she might possibly perhaps by chance maybe be willing to trade me that one back for one of my others..................
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 17:26:26
 @jdstorm  Why trade for draft picks at all or rookies. We are NOT a rebuilding team we are a championship team. If we have to trade one of them which I do NOT think we will, but if we d have to trade one it better for established players that will help us win a championship next year not draft picks or rookies that is just plain stupid.   Also it is more important to keep Ibaka over Harden if we have to choose, but I don't think we have to choose I am sure both will resign next year before the trade deadline gets close. We certainly are not trading either one for draft picks in this years draft that is for sure as the only way they get traded is if we cann't resign them in the first place.
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 17:30:24
 @Nick the Quick 4 Life  @OUThunderfan  Harden will resign with us for far below the max. He knows he has to take less money to stay in OKC and he will. He also knows he is at very serious risk of getting traded if he don't resign with us before the trade deadline.
MostJadedGamer
2012-06-14 17:33:32
 @JimboSlice  @Nick the Quick 4 Life  @OUThunderfan  No jimboslice, but you wrong about the resticted free agent part. Your right we hold all the cards, and that is why they will never even reach the restricted free agent part.    If Harden, and Ibaka have not resigned with us by the time the trade deadline gets close they will be traded. We are not going to wait til they become restrcited free agents where there trade value will go down considerablly.   Anyway all of this is a moot point as both guys will resign before the trade deadline gets close next season. 
ThunderBelize
2012-06-14 17:41:35
 @Tronchaser  @Jooseppi touche!
ThunderBelize
2012-06-14 17:46:44
ever feel like you missed the memo...   *crickets*
Marty_McFly321
2012-06-14 17:47:50
Can't help but think Harden would rather take less money and stay here than go to the Basketball Hell that is Charlotte.
Jeremy2
2012-06-14 17:58:32
 @OSU EE Why not.  Kobe can do what Durant does and better.  People look at the down side of Kobe missing a lot because Kobe has had so many opportunities to do so.  Durant's opportunities are not as many as Kobe.  All players will miss clutch shots.  Both are fantastic players and definitely would pick over leclutch james.
Dan Yuschick
2012-06-15 07:16:09
Living near Charlotte and the Bobcats being my #2 team, this is the only place I'd be okay with seeing Harden go.  But I agree, I think Harden would happily take a bit less money to stay with this core than move elsewhere, like Charlotte.  
TaoMaas
2012-06-15 10:05:04
This discussion reminds me of what Jalen Rose said the other day when someone asked him if he thought Westbrook would prefer to be the #1 player on another team, rather than continue to play somewhat in KD's shadow.  He said, "The Charlotte Bobcats had a best player this year, too, but nobody knows who he is."   LOL  I doubt Harden wants to apply for the job.
Treviedo
2012-06-15 20:12:09
 @justin_mia  I agree with you about Harden. i disagree with about Ibaka. I think he is worth more to us than most everyone else because he fills a big need for us - defense mainly from shot-blocking. If he was not on our team we would be drilled by penetration. Our problem is Perkins. He has no outside game and no inside game. He is not a shot-blocker. Not sure what he does for us besides setting picks. If we could pick up a big that could shoot from 20 feet and rebound a little bit than we are set.  
Treviedo
2012-06-15 20:17:42
 @justin_mia  @ThunderStruck2412  @Jooseppi  @ou_sas  @Lost Ones While I agree with you about Harden I do think you overstate a bit...shot blocking does not equal elite defense but on our squad it has been a difference maker for us in many games. While Perkins gets credit for 'stopping" Bynum and company it was Ibaka that made them think before shooting and made both he and  Gasol tentative. The things Ibaka does not do well can be learned . being the best shot blocker in the league cannot. JMO
Treviedo
2012-06-15 20:20:56
 @justin_mia "but he's poor at defensive rebounding" Most shot blockers are not great rebounders. again I would say Perkins should be picking that up...
mracesmith
2012-06-16 15:01:27
I could not see Harden leaving the thunder to go to the worst team ever for extra money, if he did that would be a terrible decision. If it were me id take the less money and be on a good team! i wrote about game 3 on my blog and how the heat will win, why and how to bet it so come by check it out and enjoy! http://nbawagers.com/2012/06/which-team-will-win-the-pivotal-game-3/
Fella1Hoopscom
2012-06-19 15:14:00
Fella1Hoops.com/ Thats a tough one. Its a good idea, but the chemistry could be killed. Then who do you pick? Maybe Kidd-Gilchrist to give OKC some toughness? Idk that's a hard one.
Patrick OKC
2012-06-20 11:19:27
Posting this after game 4, and as of right now I'm not as upset about this as I used to be.