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James Harden: ‘I want to keep playing with the Thunder’

by Royce Young on August 27, 2012 at 2:02 pm 469 Comments

Layne Murdoch/NBAE/Getty Images

It’s pretty obvious what James Harden wants. He wants to stay in Oklahoma City.

“I don’t know. I can’t make that decision,” Harden told Marca.com. “I only focus on playing. I want to keep playing with the Thunder. I feel like home and the team is special. My teammates are like my family. We can do big things. We’ll see what happens.”

And really, it’s pretty obvious what the team wants. The Thunder want to keep James Harden.

Unfortunately there are those luxury tax complications standing in the way, making this whole thing much more difficult and challenging than it should be.

Harden also recently said, “I’m pretty, a hundred percent, I’m pretty sure that I’m going to be in Oklahoma City.” But of course that quote came before Serge Ibaka signed his four-year, $48 million extension. That’s the complication I speak of, the thing that’s seemingly made Harden’s extension go from a slam dunk sure thing to somewhat of a question mark.

Most see Harden as a likely max extension kind of player, especially if he were to hit the market next summer as a restricted free agent. With players like Eric Gordon, Brook Lopez and Roy Hibbert landing max deals, surely the reigning Sixth Man of the Year would get one too.

The way Harden talks, it seems as if he’s got a number he’s told his agent he wants to hit and if it happens, it happens. He’s made it especially clear that his preference is the Thunder and that his eye isn’t wandering to options in restricted free agency. But it’s just a matter of what OKC’s ownership is willing to spend.

The indication is that the Thunder will open the checkbook for Harden and cross the luxury tax bridge when they get there. By either just paying it, trying to wiggle around it with the amnesty clause or by making a deal.

But the ball is in the Thunder’s court. Harden has put his cards on the table. The cat is out of the bag. The insert another cliche here to hammer home a point that’s been made already. This negotiation with Harden isn’t about trying to convince him to stay. That much is done. It’s just about hitting that number.

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FF_pickups
FF_pickups like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

Harden will NEVER hit RFA.  If the Thunder were seriously considering a future with no James Harden then they would've done the trade that Charlotte offered (2nd overall pick for James Harden http://bit.ly/M1N8mm ).  The second pick makes far less money and is an enormous asset.  So if Presti isn't willing to pay Harden, then not trading Harden for the number 2 overall pick was a COLOSSAL mistake.  Presti dots every i and signs every t and he doesn't make a colossal mistakes. Therefore Harden will never hit RFA.

ou_sas
ou_sas like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

 @SERGEant_Slaughter Re: "Wait I cant believe you say that weak side blocks are overrated. You cant be serious! A weak side block means you were able to help your teammate who obviously got beaten on a play and stop something from happening. You CANNOT be serious about that statement. If he's leading that means he's helping out a lot ...and if he's helping out a lot that means he's necessary -- 

Please please please stop the madness bro."

 

Weakside blocks are useful, no doubt. But I'd rather have a defense where you don't need someone coming over to consistently help out. A weakside block is not the same as an interception in football. It's more akin to the safety coming over to cover your ass because your corner got beat. You'd rather be able to trust the corner to do his job and not need the safety's help, but if it prevents a TD, you'll take it. Same thing with weakside blocks.

 

[coke head]
[coke head] like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @ou_sas  @SERGEant_Slaughter Yeah, I get the feeling she doesn't watch a lot of Thunder basketball.  A weak side block doesn't mean you're always helping your teammate.  One of my peeves about our defense, and Serge specifically, is when he helps when it is not necessary.  Often Perkins will have good positioning defensively and Ibaka will come and attempt a block anyway.  This leaves the Thunder exposed on the boards, or if the big guy is a good passer like one of the Gasols, it leaves them open to interior passing.  Weak side shot blocking is definitely useful, but the reason Ibaka gets so many is because he's trying to get every single one.  He's not Dwight, who gets fewer blocks per game but those blocks mean more.  Many are on the ball,and he's intelligent about when to give help and when to be positioned properly for a rebound.  And again, if Serge's shot blocking had such a huge effect on our defense, our defense would be much better with him on the court.  According to most metrics I can find, Ibaka doesn't have a very positive effect on the defense.  He's be better off attempting fewer blocks, boxing out his man more, working on positioning, etc.  Blocks are sexy though, and it's what people remember.

EricMe
EricMe

 @justin_mia  

What could Howard have done without his physical strength? I don't see him doing anything special on defense that Serge doesn't do. He is only stronger and fouls a lot and ahve to be bailed out by referees because he is constantly in foul trouble.

Moreover, if the thunder organization made promises of bonuses in order for Serge to duplicate his shots blocking abilities and his stance as the defensive player of the year, it is because they value it deeply. Stats only tell 5% of the game. When you use too much stats you forget about the game itself.

Fisha Status
Fisha Status like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @justin_mia  @ou_sas Hello - I do watch Thunder Games. We all have played basketball as well right? Can we add the Real life factor? And questioning Ibaka's intelligence is assuming this guy played more then anyone else at his position through life. He's learning. We also have a coach, who should say hey Serge, dont do that ...

 

Im exhausted. LOL

ou_sas
ou_sas like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @EricMe @SERGEant_Slaughter was referring to the statements Justin and I both were making regarding Serge going for a block on every posession. Since I don't have l33t video editing skills, I was attempting to prove the point by another manner: in this case, the opinion that people whose paycheck is dependent on watching basketball provided regarding his willingness to go for the blocks.

 

The thing is, the defensive requirements that I want Serge to satisfy aren't that far fetched for how amazing he is as an athlete. I'm not asking him to pull down 25 and 15 every night like Kevin Love does. Part of what he's lacking is coaching, part of what he's lacking is experience, but there is a clear progression for what he should be able to do. If we're going to pay Serge as much as we did, then it is by no means unreasonable to expect him to continue to develop. We paid for Serge's potential. Not his current. My point was to express what I'd like that potential to be.

 

Furthermore, didn't you read the post where I admitted that I'm greedy in what I wanted from Serge?

 

As an aside, if you choose to completely disregard stats, then what difference is Serge Ibaka to anyone? There's a difference between saying that a player does plenty of things that don't readily show up on a stat sheet (e.g., Nick Collison) versus completely disregarding stats entirely. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this game is all about stats. Specifically, this game is about scoring more points than the other guy. You don't win just by having the younger/older roster, having more experience, being the nicest/meanest team. You win by scoring. Which means, you win based on the stats you produce. 

EricMe
EricMe

 @ou_sas  

Do you make your opinion or you base it on bloggers. Besides, give me the names of the players that satisfy all the defensive reuirements that you want Serge to satisfy.

ou_sas
ou_sas

 @SERGEant_Slaughter  @justin_mia KD's not the one who's the defensive block specialist. Justin is well on record for calling out KD on the defensive end, and I've put forward my own problems with his tendency to sag yards off his defenders.

 

The point I was trying to make was that Serge wants the block so much that he's getting made fun of for it. If he had other areas for which he was well known - besides Dunking, and Gnawing on the ball between free throws - it'd be no big deal. However, this is Serge Iblocka we're talking about. Blocking shots is his thing, yet he's easy enough to pump fake. You see what I'm saying? 

ou_sas
ou_sas

 @SERGEant_Slaughter  @justin_mia Let me put it this way: There are multiple, respectable NBA bloggers who were joking that you could think about pump faking and Serge would have left his feet to attempt the block.

ou_sas
ou_sas

 @SERGEant_Slaughter  @justin_mia I don't want him to stop blocking shots if that's needed. But, #1) is it needed every time that Serge is trying for it? and #2) I'm greedy, and if I get a 4/$48 player, I'm going to damn well expect the world out of him if he's got a reputation for being a good defensive player. I want him blocking shots, rebounding, playing good, non-fouling man defense - the whole shebang. He's getting paid - now I want him to live up to his contract.

[coke head]
[coke head]

 @SERGEant_Slaughter  @ou_sas If he is going to be worth 4 years, $51 million he will have to do a lot more than try to block every shot.  That's really the extent of his improvements I saw last season.  Also, the point is that despite the high number of blocks he collects, Serge doesn't seem to impact the game defensively like an elite defensive player should.  That's all.

Fisha Status
Fisha Status

 @ou_sas  @justin_mia So you want him to stop what he does best? Look if you want to go that route...so be it. All I know is, the team is not self coached. If they wanted him to do things differently, they wouldve COACHED him not too.

ou_sas
ou_sas

 @SERGEant_Slaughter  @justin_mia The problem that I think Justin was pointing out was that we need Serge to play like a starting PF, rather than an energy guy off the bench. Trying to block everything works when you're playing 16 mpg or so, but if we're expecting 30+, he just can't do that.

ThunderChick2010
ThunderChick2010 like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @justin_mia  @ou_sas  @SERGEant_Slaughter 

Sexy?  I guess being intelligently and properly positioned for a rebound doesn't always make the highlight reel.

Fisha Status
Fisha Status

 @ou_sas but who's fault is that....Kendrick Perkins! Give credit to serge for being able to notice when a teammate needs help.

 

geez

ou_sas
ou_sas

 @SERGEant_Slaughter It's not necessarily Perk's fault if it's Tony Parker blowing by from the perimeter or something. I agree, it's useful, but, as Justin said, don't get caught up in thinking that weakside blocks are a magical, awesome stat.

Fisha Status
Fisha Status

 @ou_sas That was just one example! Good grief. We need to stop nitpickng at the details. 

Fisha Status
Fisha Status

 @justin_mia  AND AND AND....since I cant find that comment you made trying to say that Serge is a PF and not a Center... Whatever...He's both. He can play the 5 just well as Udonis Haslem could (standing at 6'8" 250). Ibaka is a PF/C whether you like it or not. 

[coke head]
[coke head]

 @SERGEant_Slaughter Udonis Haslem has a career DRB of 21.9% and has been as high as ~25% in recent years where he played more center.  He is stronger than Ibaka (defends the post better, according to Synergy, .1 PPP difference is not insubstantial).  The reason Ibaka can't really play center all the time is because the team gets destroyed on the defensive glass.  If you grouped Ibaka in with all centers that received 1000 or more minutes last season he'd be 44th out of 66th in DRB%, behind Johan Petro, Gustavo Ayon, Timofey Mozgov... our two other real centers also sucked on the boards.  

EricMe
EricMe

 @justin_mia  @SERGEant_Slaughter

 Stats mean nothing. Stats are what made Jeremy a top 5 or top 10 poitn guard in the league while he can't even bring the ball off the court by himself. Bring Haslem to replace Ibaka and OKC will crash out of the first round. There is a reason why teams would never pay anything like that to Haslem and they would line up for IBAKA. Once again you trust the stats too much and they don't tell you the whole story.

f5alcon
f5alcon like.author.displayName 1 Like

 @justin_mia hopefully cole gets minutes, his drb% was decent for scrub minutes.

[coke head]
[coke head]

 @SERGEant_Slaughter Ibaka only played 4% of the team's minutes at center last season, and was far less effective there. No, he's not really both right now.  He doesn't have the defensive rebounding capability or strength to guard big guys to capably play center consistently.  When he's on the floor with any of our bigs other than Durant he's defending the other team's PF almost always.  For Ibaka's contract to be viable he will probably have to play C a lot more.

OBoy
OBoy

LOL the LA Times wrote an article abut Ibaka and not being happy on the spain team, in the article it mentioned he signed a " 4 year 65 million dollar contract extension"

 

epic lolz

senseandsenescence
senseandsenescence like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Two thoughts:

 

1)  By letting Harden go to RFA and then matching a max offer, the Thunder save about half a million a year in years 2-4.  Not amazing, but it is something if you are doubling or tripling that with luxury tax payments.

 

2) I like Oboy's Sullinger video, but it lacks the desired "got you" effect.  I'm not on here enough to use it much so let me submit this for ( @cleandoe 's) use ... http://i.imgur.com/c4zRj.gif

Trackbacks

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    September 12, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    [...] Harden has made it especially clear that his preference is to remain in Oklahoma City and if that’s the case, his best chance is by signing an extension before Oct. 31. Because again: He’s getting max money on the open market. So if the Thunder have any hope of getting him signed for less than that, it would have to come via an extension. [...]

  2. Report: James Harden wants the max | Daily Thunder.com says:
    September 13, 2012 at 3:00 pm

    [...] has Harden indicated he’d be willing to make future sacrifices to stay with in Oklahoma City, a place he’s said over and over he wants to be, but also because most feel that the Thunder can’t handle giving him that level of a [...]

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