Garrett Ellwood/NBAE/Getty Images
It’s not exactly big, breaking, drop-everything-overwhelming news. But it kind of is.
According to Chris Broussard of ESPN.com, James Harden wants a max extension. Which is kind of sort of relevant considering not only has Harden indicated he’d be willing to make future sacrifices to stay with in Oklahoma City, a place he’s said over and over he wants to be, but also because most feel that the Thunder can’t handle giving him that level of a deal.
It’s pretty darn obvious that Harden is a max level kind of player and that if he were to reach restricted free agency, he’s certainly warrant a max offer sheet from somewhere. But there’s been the feeling that Harden might take less, largely because he himself indicated as such.
“This team is like a family,” Harden said in June. “Like, we’re really brothers. We hang out most of the time every single day. You won’t find any other team like this. I love it here … This is something special here. A dynasty is being built here. So we’re winning, we’re having fun and we’re brothers. The other stuff, you can’t buy it.”
But if Harden wants the max? That complicates his future with the Thunder greatly. This whole thing is kind of a game of chicken, waiting to see who blinks first. The Thunder have until Oct. 31 to ink Harden to an extension before he becomes a restricted free agent and opens leaves OKC to the wolves of the NBA marketplace. Both sides know the situation well, and know what’s on the line.
There is a difference though in someone wanting the max and only accepting it. Harden obviously wants the most money he can get. Whether or not he’s planning on standing his ground on it is still to be determined.
If OKC were to give Harden what he wants — reportedly — that would be a four-year, $63 million deal. Which would put OKC’s luxury tax payment in 2014 at around $23 million, assuming the NBA’s salary cap remains the same. For contrast, an extension like Ibaka signed (four years, $48 million), would pull that number down to $15.6 million in 2014. And if the Thunder signed Harden to the discounted deal and amnestied Kendrick Perkins, the payment is only about $1.7 million. So you can see what’s at stake here.
The Thunder know what they’re willing to spend. Harden has the number in his head of what he wants. And he can absolutely get it somewhere else. The Thunder may be willing to hit that number themselves and are trying to string this out hoping Harden bites like Serge Ibaka did, or they really and truly aren’t comfortable dropping another max deal. Anything less than the max for Harden is him giving up money and an obvious declaration that he values playing in OKC more than he does money.
So either there’s a compromise and Harden stays, or things complicate even more with him hitting the market next summer. There are teams waiting to bite — Phoenix, Houston, Dallas — knowing that the Thunder would have great difficulty in matching. So if the Thunder are crossing their fingers and hoping the open market underpays Harden, they shouldn’t hold their breath.
Perk said the Thunder were “getting close” to Harden and while that’s evidently not exactly the case, he does have a point that getting Harden in camp might bring back those sentiments he had after the season. It might bring back the emotions and feelings of a dynasty, of family, of winning. Because if he places money over that stuff, he might not be a part of that stuff.
Talks with Harden are ongoing, which means the Thunder haven’t drawn a line in the sand or made some kind of decision picking Ibaka over him. They want Harden back desperately. But this is a negotiation with both sides trying to get everything out of a deal that they want. It’s the way it works. Like Sam Presti said recently, that’s the challenge OKC faces.
Harden understands though that if he truly wants to remain with the Thunder, as he’s said repeatedly, his best chance to do so will come via an extension before the deadline. Much like Ibaka did just a few weeks ago. It’s his choice, it’s his life, it’s his money, it’s his career. He’s free to do what he wants to do. But he knows the pros and cons of both. Does he value an extra three, maybe four million a year over playing for a title contending team? That’s the decision he’s making.
If he does, then he might have to be starting over with a new family and trying to build that dynasty somewhere else. Without Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka.
James Harden, Daequan Cook,a second round pick would be the trade pieces. The Grizzlies will get an potential all-star guard in Harden and a 3- pointer in DC15. The Thunder would get a great all-around player in Rudy Gay. It would be an even trade.
Why don't the Thunder trade for someone like Rudy Gay. He needs to leave the Grizzlies. If your going to give a max contract to someone, give it to someone who can actually play in the playoffs. Gay can start at the 2 and can guard just about anyone at his position.
James has a decision to make. Win a title or not. What's more important? We shall see. The Thunder knows what they will give him. That decision on the team's part has already been made. No one player is going to ruin a good thing, that is, a viable franchise.
fredpahlke.com
Give him the darn money! This stuff about the sentiment is all very nice and I'm sure they all like each other down there in OKC, but it is borderline insulting to expect a hometown discount. The fact that Harden is willing to come off the bench is sacrifice enough. I just don't see why it's such a stretch to think that if you have a championship-type roster you shouldn't have to pay for it. Besides, keeping this stacked roster together is the only way that this organization is going to succeed in (no offense) Oklahoma fricking City. I understand that Seattle would be interested in getting an NBA team if you can't afford the players...
@AndrewScanlan
be nice to just "give" him the money. It's also easy to tell someone else how to spend their money.
@FredPahlke Um. Did I pick the wrong word, here? Is "Pay" him the money more appropriate? It's easy to tell someone what to do with their money when the choices are between "pay a star basketball player star basketball player money" and "pay less to be mediocre." This stuff actually isn't all that complicated after all. Ask Suns fans how shedding good players (and shedding 1st round draft picks--which fortunately, the Thunder haven't indulged in yet) to save money worked out for them. Or are you objecting to me rendering an opinion when I am not one of the world's genius wizard GMs like Sam Presti for example, who doesn't mind losing the league's most promising two guard right when his team is starting to reach its peak?
Of course, there are other factors (Presti isn't the only decision-maker for example--ownership ultimately controls the purse strings) but this decision isn't very difficult from a basketball standpoint. OKC can be a great team which like other great teams costs a lot of money or they can be a glorified sideshow, a senators stop on the Lakers' and Heat's globe-trotting tour. We are confounding and mystifying the issue by talking about hometown discounts and trades.. For a player of Harden's caliber this whole discussion is a little bit insulting. So, the choices are: 1. Pay Harden 2. Move to an actual big city where there's money to be made or 3. Be half-assed and pretend to be clever about it (in which case, Bulls fans like me won't have much cause to comment on OKC blogs anyway). Feel free to expand on these options, Fred, if you have any opinions about this other than "that Scanlan is a whipper-snapper" which has already been noted.
http://www.dailythunder.com/2012/09/friday-bolts-9-14-12/
And i will also reveal how much games they will win in the regular season
Thunder will sign james harden before october 31 and i will reveal on bolts why and how they will ;)
@okcprophetic You don't have to be prophetic to know WHY...just sayin' ;)
(I've decided that "just sayin" is my new catchphrase.)
that's fine cuz i dnt have to come on here and try to be intelligent or funny cuz i knw i am, am just here to reveal things wich i dnt have to wait to see it happen
@thunderobsess hey skip!
@smallhandedthunder @thunderobsess leave him alone
@okcprophetic @smallhandedthunder @thunderobsess hey same guy!
Goodmornin i notice yall take away all my points but its ok
@thunderobsess That's livefyre. If you will click on your name, you'll be taken to your profile, which will show you how many points you have (it's 42 at the moment, by the way). It's one of the things you learn to live with on the board - never seeing your own points total.
@ou_sas i knw so much about thunder its not even funny
Was reading the below discussion of part 4318979132 of the "who is more important to the future of the Thunder, Ibaka or Harden?" question. Thought I'd throw a couple of lists out to help some of the rest of us come up with comparative values and where they stand on things.
So, we have:
"in the regular season; in 2011-12; played G or G-F or F-G; sorted by descending Offensive Rating" http://bkref.com/tiny/GKOAD (List of Guards sorted by Offensive rating - Harden is 3rd on this list)
"in the regular season; in 2011-12; played F or F-C; qualified for Blocks Per Game Leaderboard; sorted by ascending Defensive Rating." http://bkref.com/tiny/b5Q53 (List of Defensive Forwards who have a certain amount of blocks - Serge is 6th on this list)
And then one more, since amnestying/trading Perk is always going to be on the table:
"in the regular season; in 2011-12; played F-C or C or C-F; sorted by ascending Defensive Rating." http://bkref.com/tiny/IRH1T (List of Centers sorted by Defensive rating - Perk is 55th on this list... of note, Aldrich is 6th (!) )
I'm not trying to argue one way or another, but rather seeing who in the league might be most capable of filling the roles of the different players we're talking about ditching. People throw out "X position is easier to replace" on both sides of the argument. Now, maybe, the rest of us can perhaps evaluate how true those statements are.
Good morning DT, and happy birthday Royce!
@Bryson
Ah, you beat me to it you whippersnapper! I was going to wait for the Bolts. :)
Guys...Harden isn't going anywhere. He will become a RFA and OKC will match the max offer. It makes it a little cheaper for OKC than giving him a "Bird rights" extension. But this guy isn't leaving. He's easily and clearly a max player, the 3rd best SG in the league. And OKC wouldn't trade him for Kobe - so you could say he's Nr. 2 behind Wade.
Stay calm. The core isn't changing.
@wannabeGM Ummm. Maybe another lin
I think we will see some kind of a trade involving Harden this year
@ILikePancakes
It Harden don't sign by the Oct 31 deadline he will be traded. I still think there is a good chance that Harden will come to his senses, and sign the extension by the Oct 31 deadline.
Try dat harden is the better player but ibaka we needed more
Tru*
@OkcBaby really?
~ousas
Thabo coming off the bench is not a bad idea
@OkcBaby groundbreaking moment right here
@OBoymuzik Maynor would make him 6th man
I'm sleeping with the windows open tonight. Primo jaccuzzi weather. When was it this comfortable? March--April? Our second straight Summer of Hell is over. The black lab is funny. She won't get up in bed with me during June-July-August-early September because I radiate so much heat. I know summer is officially over when I see her on the bed watching Letterman. Basketball season is just around the corner.
@El Prez A dog through bruh? http://www.rubmaps.com/oklahoma-city-massage-parlors-ok or http://oklahomacity.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kobe-youre-welcome.gif
I suck at soldering. Anybody want to give me any helpful tips on how to make my wire joint not look like a big messy blob of molten metal?
@JimboSlice
You need Jooseppi. He owns tools, has experience, and is handy I hear . . .
What I admire about Kevin Durant is that he even though he's the leading scorer, he's not always the first option. And that's unusual for an elite scorer because they are usually the first option. Kevin gets his points within the flow of the offense. I don't recall seeing him calling for the ball.
from Bill Russell
@shiki bill russell must not watch alot of thunder games because KD calls for the ball quite a lot. He has the right to though.
@shiki and he does get his points in the flow of the offense, the calling for the ball thing is what i disagree with.
Kevin has some TSN issues when he's not shooting the ball, but he's never been a selfish player.
@shiki code words for Russell Westbrook is a ballhog
@DennisBerry maybe it should be Kobe is a ballhog
@shiki He is, but how is that relevant to this conversation?
Harden is not max sorry
Our bench is still going to be good
These fall temps are incredible. Last Friday it 105 degrees. Tomorrow's high...69 degrees. Only .85 of precip in the DT Deer Creek weather reporting station. I thought the turkeys were going to riot this morning when the cold front came through. Had to send the fifteen year old black lab Dakota out amongst them to restore some semblance of order.
Duh. Harden is worth the max. Extending Ibaka like that was a mistake if it costs the team Harden.
@justin_mia We need an inside presents. If we didn't lock down Ibaka only thing we was going to be left with was Perkins... And trust me you don't want that.
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@MisterJohnsonOKC @Okc242 @justin_mia Well, they definitely don't get wet in the rain. :)
@justin_mia
What we've all got to understand is that the max is like a ceiling; many players at the max are acutally worth more than that on a wins produced or other similar basis. So Harden may not be as valuable as KD, but they're both max players because there's no way to pay KD what he's worth. Harden is a max player, to another team at the very least.
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@MisterJohnsonOKC @justin_mia neither does carmelo anthony, and it's a very viable argument that Harden's offensive impact is equal to or better that of Anthony as of last season, and his defensive impact is even less negative.
@justin_mia I third this motion
@justin_mia Have to agree