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This isn’t the first time Kevin Martin has expressed his desire to remain long-term with the Thunder, but it is the latest time. And probably the most emphatic.
Martin will be an unrestricted free agent in July, but he reiterated to Marc Spears of Yahoo! Sports that he wants to stay in Oklahoma City past this season.
“This summer, hopefully everything works out here,” Martin told Yahoo! Sports on Wednesday. “I haven’t said that too often. But I will put it out there; hopefully I have found a home in the NBA. I love playing with this group of guys. The organization is great to me. The community has been great to me. It’s the happiest I have been during my NBA career.
“This is my spot … hopefully.”
Are you skeptical? You should be. Thunder fans have been down this road once, and it ended poorly.
But Martin’s situation is far different than James Harden’s. For instance, consider this quote from Martin in the piece: “I knew what type of situation I was going into and that it was a perfect time for my career to be on a contending team in the middle of my prime.”
He’s been The Man, he’s played the primary weapon. He’s toiled away on mediocre teams averaging 20+ a night. He’s already been paid top dollar for his scoring. Now, he’s got his sights on other things, things he hasn’t accomplished.
I don’t doubt that Martin has a serious desire to remain with the Thunder, one so heavy that he genuinely would consider a trim in salary. The question is if the feeling is mutual, in the sense that the Thunder are willing to at least be competitive with their offer.
According to a league source, “multiple” teams plan to show interest in Martin this offseason, all looking to sign him and install him back as more of a featured player. Can — or will — the Thunder compete with those offers? And will Martin really put his money where his mouth has been and give OKC a little break? That’s the common ground both sides will likely be seeking.
He’s happy in his role off the bench in OKC, but happy enough to take less? Also known as the Harden Conundrum.
Here’s OKC’s financial situation: Per Sham Sports, OKC has about $67 million on the books already for next season, and $66 million for the season after that. While the Thunder proved in the Harden negotiations they were willing to break into tax territory, the question is if they were just willing to make that exception for Harden. Getting Martin for something in the two-year, $17 million range sounds reasonable to me, but that would put OKC right on the tax fringe. Something they’d very much prefer avoiding. So the question is, is Martin worth it to them to pay tax on?
Martin will turn 30 in a couple weeks, and while that’s a little older, he’s still right in the prime of his career, especially in the role the Thunder are using him in. He’s not taking nightly beatings trying to carry an offense. Life is easy for him.
There’s still half a season to go, and then a whole other season after that with the playoffs. How Martin continues to perform could impact things, as well as the Thunder’s feelings about Jeremy Lamb and what happens with that Raptors pick. A lot of things could still influence this situation.
But Martin has made his position pretty clear. Your move — in July — Thunder.
Player From To PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB%
Hasheem Thabeet 2010 2013 10.8 0.591 0.564 10.3 19.6 15
Kendrick Perkins 2010 2013 9.0 0.523 0.492 8.8 21.4 15.5
AST% STL%BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg WS/48
Hasheem Thabeet 1.5 1.2 6.2 22.4 10.4 107 103 0.098
Kendrick Perkins 6.5 0.8 2.9 26.0 11.8 96 103 0.061
Love this new website look. happy for DT
The Thunder don't need Harden anymore. They received plenty in return (players and flexibility) while allowing Harden to become a star on his own team. Win-Win http://thecover4.com/2013/01/19/thunder-storming/
Im sick of hearing about James Harden. Dude is gone live with it. Its his own selfish fault that hes not here. Not Presti, not KD , not Brooks, nobody but his own fault. He wanted the money instead of stickin with his "brothers" to try and win a championship.. So ...Thats the way the cookie crumbles
@Dolli3_Rawqks We are all living with the Harden trade. For example some choose to live in a fantasy land in which they paint Harden as the bad guy, the betrayer of his "brothers". Some people have to have enemies to blame when things don't work out and others see things as they are and move on in a different way that might include not being afraid to discuss Harden.
@rednuht and one last thing... he did turn his back on KD and RUSS after he said and i quote " I will sacrifice for my team" what sacrifice was he talking about? He put himself in a whole and i wish him no bad things on him it is what it is. But at the end of the day HE WANTED THE MONEY no matter how you try to slice and dice it. He lied ... but anywho
#ThunderUp
@rednuht 80$mill
@rednuht Like i said in my opinion he's not worth no damn 80$ and he chased the money no matter how sweet you try to make this sound. He's always came off the bench thats no sacrifice. And that's not what Harden said. Until after the media chewed him out about it. Presti wanted him but he's not worth that much money im sorry. I can live with him being off the team. And no he wasn't "willing" he denied the offer TWICE!! Tried to play hardball and lost. Enough said
@Dolli3_Rawqks Harden earned the money he was asking for from OKC, just as Durant and Westbrook had earned it before him. Harden was willing to sacrifice by continuing to come off the bench for the team and was willing to take 4 years instead of 5. So Harden was willing to sacrifice being the same star and all-star he is in Houston to stay with OKC and he was willing to sacrifice about $20M in guaranteed contract.
Presti said he valued Harden over and over and over again, but when it came time to show Harden that he was valued he instead wanted Harden to sacrifice more or be traded. Did Presti lie?
The only reason the trade of Harden still comes up is because a portion of the fan base is still ignorant to how it came about. You fall into that category.
I wish Harden hadn't been traded, but I recognize that it was Presti's call to make and I'm fine with the team as is.
@rednuht @Dolli3_Rawqks No one said he was the "bad guy" I could care less . I wasn't a fan of Harden anyway. So the trade didn't affect me in anyway. Second You can call it the "blame" game if you want. Its just facts. So like i said im sick of hearing about the Harden trade. Afraid to talk about him? It doesn't matter to me. Okc is doing great without him. So ....... Lets all move on shall we :)
@rednuht Fantasy? Bad guy? Im glad you put a lot of thought into what you just said to me. That's amazing. Obviously you're upset he's gone? Lol
http://dailythunder.com/2013/01/3-on-3-snubbed/
One of the overlooked but critical components of Royce's piece about Martin is Martin proclaiming that, "this is my spot". This is Perkins-esque and shouldn't be ignored.
Harden is a good play maker, but the reality is he wasn't a good play maker for KD or Russ. When they all three played together it was mostly just isolations. Kevin Martin fits better with this offensive system (or lack of a system) because he is just a better spot up shooter. Obviously KD+Russ+Harden had the potential to be amazing together but the coaching staff certainly did their best to handicap that. Presti making the trade and getting two 1st rounders and a 2nd and a great replacement for Harden AND the POSSIBILITY of signing that replacement for something reasonable was a great trade. If Kevin Martin walks, sure you can call that a miscalculation for Presti but it's not in the top 100 worst GM moves of the last few years.
We'll have an idea as to how successful the trade was at the end of the season. If we win the championship, it was a very good trade.
@doofUSA I think that it is a bit unfair to judge a trade or a draft pick as a miscalculation based on how it eventually turns out. of course presti took into account the fact that martin could walk, but when he made the trade, it was maybe a 30% chance? 50% chance? I dont know. But the point is that he is weighing the potential that he doesnt as part of the calculation.
Just like the like oden over durant. obviously it turned out to be the wrong pick, but it doesnt mean it was miscalculated. It just means that the risk that Portland took didnt go in their favor.
Whenever you make a decision, you assume some risk. looking back with 20 20 hindsight isnt really a fair way to judge things.
@delolama @doofUSAAbsolutely it is. Some people thought Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan was a good pick. Bowie had some big risks, but he had a lot of potential, so the Blazers took him. To say that that wasn't a bad move is just wrong. If Martin walks, then we lost the trade badly, and it turned out to be a bad move. Every trade has to be evaluated in hindsight.
@lmp5336 @doofUSA To say you "won" or "lost" a trade, sure, hindsight is a fair way to judge it. But when you say that he "traded a young superstar for a few draft picks and an unproven rookie", you are missing a couple of pieces. Presti traded a chance that a young superstar would sign with them at a rate they could stomach, for a few draft picks, and unproven rookie, and some chance that a very good player that fits very well into their system would sign with them at a rate they could stomach.
I am just trying to make the case that it is not really fair to judge the decision making process of a GM through hindsight. To make any decision, you have to make a number of calculations about an unknown future, and they risks involved have to be included in judgement of the decision.
@lmp5336 I have no problem evaluating a move in hindsight, but Martin doesn't represent the full evaluation of the trade and the evaluation of a single trade in hindsight doesn't automatically have any bearing on a franchise overall.
@lmp5336 @delolama If Harden walked at the end of the year then "we lost" pretty badly then too. Just seems everyone thinks there was some magic mystery trade out there Presti could have pulled off, when really this was the best out there. You can always loose players when you are up against the cap, that's just the reality of being a small market.
just to clear up I'm not saying the trade was a miscalculation at all, just referencing what others were saying.
@doofUSA But the result definitely would be. Essentially he would have traded a young superstar for a few draft picks and an unproven rookie. That's bad.
@lmp5336 @doofUSA Martin was clearly a component of the Harden trade that Presti liked, but it doesn't mean that Presti has to retain Martin to feel good about the trade. Presti doesn't care what the media of fans think about an individual trade his job is to sustain the team at a level of contention.
@lmp5336 @doofUSA
Except for the judgemental absolutism and the couple of wrong statements part of this almost works.
Kevin Martin can be called bad names if you want, but unproven or rookie or a draft pick? Which IS the key element of this trade? And Presti didn't pick the Harden fight. Harden had the best deal we could make him and opted to go elsewher so he caould add a year. His call.
This was so far from the worst, maybe nearly all the way, maybe even one of the BESt deals the Thunder have made.
Albeit the trade seemed to have been made with a heavy heart and plenty of regret.
@Dolli3_Rawqks You response is an emotional one, like a jilted lover, but it is not based on the actual facts of what happened.
Do you think that if you agree that Presti was in control that you also have to agree that Presti made a mistake in trading Harden?
@Dolli3_Rawqks @rednuht @Crownme Presti didn't do all he could. He did not have to trade Harden at all.
@rednuht @Crownme Harden made the call. Harden lied thru all his teeth about what he would and wouldnt take. Yes they gave him an hour dead line but they were talking since they Olympics were over. So its HARDENS fault hes not here. Its his agents fault hes not here. If he wanted to stay he'd be here. He's not. Presti did all he could to keep Harden here. Had we gave him what he wanted in the end it would have been money like KD . Is he as good as KD or even RUSS? HELL NO
@Crownme Understood, but Presti was in control, right? Harden had a choice to make, but he was never in control of the situation.
@rednuht
Presti made the offer
Yup, Harden, had about the same offer in fron of him here as there and DID NOT SIGN TEH DANG THING.
I would have done (like Presti) all that I could until it was obvious the guy wasn't going to sign, then done what I could for the team. Like Presti did.
@Crownme Your selective memory? Presti made the offer, Presti made the deadline, Presti made the trade.
Presti was in control of the situation and made the call. It was his to make as the architect of this team.
@rednuht
Selective memory. Harden had a deal on the table that was very close in money for the time periods we could go, which was four years. Houston could give him 5.
@Crownme So Harden was in control of the situation? That's not how I remember it.
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It seems to me that people are either too high on Lamb or too low. He's not there yet but he still has a bright future IMO. He's got the physical tools to be a good defender he just needs to figure it out. The Thunder are doing him a favor by not letting him play until learns how to play defense at this level. I still think he's going to be a good one though in the future.
@okcjim "he still has a bright future IMO"
What are you basing this opinion on? I don't think that the track record of players who played this few of minutes as a rookie is very good.
@FF_pickups But there are plenty of precedents of young players becoming productive starters despite very low playing time in their rookie seasons, especially on good teams.
From what I've seen of Lamb in Tulsa he is progressing and getting better, that is a positive sign of his future.
@FF_pickups @okcjim It's an unusual situation though. Teams as good as the Thunder rarely have a lottery pick rookie, and he's got two really good players in front of him. If he was getting this little time on say, the Rockets, it'd be a different story. But as it is, it's far too early to judge.
@FF_pickups We're playing Liggins because of how Liggins compliments Martin and other perimeter players not because Liggins is a better overall talent than Lamb.
If Martin is gone next year the dynamic changes.
I've got to go now but I do want to continue this later. tc guys
@lmp5336 @AlexR44 "Kobe got taken 13th. "
A) Someone won the lottery last year, that doesn't make it positive EV
B) Kobe was drafted in an era when coming straight out of high school was counted against you. If he was in a draft 5 years later, he would've gone top five.
@FF_pickups @AlexR44 Kobe got taken 13th. Obviously not saying Lamb will be that good, but just because other No. 12's aren't solid contributors doesn't mean Lamb won't be.
@FF_pickups
Comparing Lamb to previous No.12's makes no sense. Jordan was drafted at No.3, but I've known some pretty horrible No.3's since then.
@Lost Ones ?
@FF_pickups @AlexR44 I'm assuming by this analysis the next #2 pick will be a bust?
@AlexR44 @FF_pickups Stats are all fine, but progress and development are about attitude and determination. Lamb is a good scorer in garbage time. But Liggins is a physical beast, plays good D, hustles and has a decent 3 pointer. I take that over a dude who makes circus shots in the D-League. Gimmicks don't work in the playoffs.
@AlexR44 What would you be willing to trade for Alec Burks or Xavier Henry? The previous two #12 picks.
@FF_pickups @AlexR44The Harden/Sefalosha talk is nonsense. We just want a solid contributor. He can't play defense at this level yet. That's why Liggins is playing ahead of him. Liggins scored 10 points a game in the D league. You won't play with the Thunder if you can't play defense.
@FF_pickups @AlexR44 I don't remember anyone projecting that lol
@FF_pickups
Not necessarily saying he'll be as great defensively as Thabo or as great offensively as Harden. But someone who can be that balance between both players and make our starting lineup that much more dynamic.
@FF_pickups
Yeah, and the track record for selecting a center at the No.1 position is kind of hit or miss also.
@AlexR44 Listen, I hope he bucks the odds and becomes great but just based on historical probabilities, projecting him to be "Harden crossed with Sefolosha" is the equivalent of projecting the next winning lottery ticket number.
@FF_pickups
Its akin to someone who has been at a job for 2 years, compared to someone who been at the job for 2 months. Though the 2 monther might be more talented, the experience the 2 year employee has will make him a better employee for the immediate future. Once the 2-monther get some more experience under his belt, his talents will begin to outshine his more experience counterpart.
@AlexR44 "Right now, he's more professionally mature. I think Lamb will make a jump between this season and next season."
Then you are admitting that you are projecting improvement. And the track record for #12 picks who don't play as a rookie is pretty horrific.
@FF_pickups @lmp5336It's because Lamb isn't very good defensively. This team won't play you if you can't play defense.
@FF_pickups @Lost Ones
Right now, he's more professionally mature. I think Lamb will make a jump between this season and next season.
@AlexR44 "Well, I hope you are wrong. I've mentioned this in some of my other articles, but I see Lamb as the perfect hybrid between Thabo and Harden. Someone who is more offensively adept than Thabo, but also someone with the length to be a better defensive player than Harden."
And yet he can't beat out Liggins.
@FF_pickups @Lost Ones I think, at the moment, Liggins is better for this team. If Martin walks, that might not necessarily be the case.
@FF_pickups nope liggins provides what coaching staff wants in that spot
@FF_pickups
Well, I hope you are wrong. I've mentioned this in some of my other articles, but I see Lamb as the perfect hybrid between Thabo and Harden. Someone who is more offensively adept than Thabo, but also someone with the length to be a better defensive player than Harden.
@Lost Ones So you are saying that Liggins is better than Lamb, right?
@FF_pickups @AlexR44 liggins will be 25 and is advanced physically and defensively its an obvious choice to play him over lamb
@AlexR44 Again, what are you basing your opinion on? He was drafted 12th and that may seem high to you but the track record of people drafted 12th or lower is terrible. Add on the fact that he can't beat out Liggins and his future doesn't look bright, imo. Obviously, I hope that I am wrong.
@FF_pickups @lmp5336 @okcjimLiggins is defensively more mature than Lamb. Once Lamb catches up in the defense department, his offense will make him a more impactful player than LIggins.
@lmp5336 @FF_pickups @okcjim I agree
@lmp5336 @okcjim Guys, we're playing Liggins in front of him. And Liggins has looked much better, too.
@lmp5336 @FF_pickups @okcjim
And we have two players with lottery talent (Lamb and Jones III) on a championship contending team. Plus a defensive maven in Liggins. Its a great problem to have.
@FF_pickupsHow many rookies get lumped into an organization with this many good players? This isn't an average team/organization. Most teams this good are drafting 28-32. He'd be getting minutes in almost any other organization.
@FF_pickupsEverything we've seen from him. Summer, Thunder, D-league. He can score.
@okcjim You didn't answer what you are basing your opinion on. D-league games, I take it?
@okcjim
Yesss!!!! (Marv Albert voice).